IP security cameras

We are shopping around for some enterprise IP security camera solutions. We have the following requirements

Cameras must communicate via IP.
Solution must have both indoor and outdoor cameras
Cameras must be color, night vision
Solution must have accessories to pan, tilt, motion track, etc
Solution must be able to scale from 5 cameras to 50+
Solution MUST be enterprise quality. No home security/consumer solutions.

Anyone know any systems I might check out?

How integrated you need this to be? Do you need it to be integrated to your existing IT like a Cisco system, or do you want it running sperate?

Personally I like Honeywell security systems for the DVR and use various Pelco IP cameras.

I've been using Vivotek cameras for years. Been through 4 different models.
They have proven to be reliable with very good customer service.
They do meet all of the requirements you listed.

Vivotek as well on my end. Just installed 2 of the new supreme 1080p ones

We are ok with it being a separate system since we won't be integrating it with anything at the moment.
What would IP cameras integrate with?

I'm not real familiar with IP cameras so I'm trying to learn fast. We want to have the solution installed within about 4 months. I'll check at Vivotek.

You cold integrate a surveillance system to work with your alarm system, control physical access, do motion detection, face recognition, remote centralized management etc etc.

The cameras are one thing, but it's more important to research DVR systems. I prefer software based solutions, so you can scale the server and upgrade as needed, vs an appliance you'll have to throw away if you upgrade.

Genetec works very well.

We are using Axis at our main site. We have a bunch of camera's doing various things all recorded 24 hours. They have a very nice line of Camera's and the software and client software is nice as well. We currently have the recording server running on a Dell 2950 with about 2 tbs of space, but are planning on virtualizing it next year. Doesn't take too much network traffic.

I would equate Axis to be about the same as buying a Cadillac or a BMW opr something nice like that. So be prepared to pay that kind of price for the whole solution.



EDIT:

We have a bunch of these:
http://www.axis.com/products/cam_221/

These but without wireless (they did discontinue the non wireless version this year):
http://www.axis.com/products/cam_211w/

One of These:
http://www.axis.com/products/cam_214/

Few more of these:
http://www.axis.com/products/q17_series/

*Crackles knucles*

Welcome to my world. We do surveillance systems all day long.

As mentioend above VivoTeck makes some nice IP cameras, very nice. I saw some of their night ones, very nice. You'll need an NVR (or DVR that is hybrid) to connect them to. Currently VivoTek only supports i believe 8 cameras for their DVRs, and if they dont its 16, no more then that. We build 32 channel systems in house her.

I use a product called GeoVision. They are analog systems but they also have IP software.You can use a combo of analog/ip as well. If you use anybody elses IP camera EXCEPT GeoVision with a GeoVision system, you must buy an IP license from GeoVision. They sell them in bulk.

Now GeoVIsion makes IP cameras that are very similar to VivoTek. They are less money and no IP license required.

The max you can do is 32 cameras per system i believe, unless they just incresaed that with their new NVR software which They MIGHT have. Either way your looking at about 32 camersa per system whoever you go with, otherwise you'll kill the hardware.

We use i7-2600 processors in our NVRS with 4GB ram. We can expand if ya need to.

We also use storage arrays if need be, which i recommend, since IP uses a lot of space.

Your problem you will find is finding a PTZ that works well at night and in the daytime, those are hard to come by. Typically if you want your PTZ to work at night, you want to install an IR flood light near the ptz to light up the area you care about. You'll also need a PTZ that can see the IR light, as some DO NOT see IR. Thats the best method and most economical.

As some have said, Axis are good, but im not a huge fan of them, because of their price. They were the cats pajamas back in the day but now everybody does IP. VivoTeck would be who I go with. If you go with a GeoVision system (say from someone like me), then you can get GeoVisions line. Although they don't have as many cameras they do make some IR day/night vandal proof dome cameras and the likes. They also make a few fisheye cameras, which are cool.

PM me if you want more details. I think out of anybody here i'd be your best bet for answers since as i said, its what i do for a living. I am biaed to GeoVisoin since its primarily what we sell/service. They have a LOT Of custom things you can do.

We have one client where when a door opens the alarm system sends a signal to the DVR, the DVR then tells the PTZ to automatically move to that doors position and zoom in., At the same time we have a map of the building and an icon flashes on the map indicating the door was opened.

This is all done via GeoVisions hardware add-ons, all for their DVRs/NVRs. They have lots of addons like that. Say you have a restaurant we can feed the POS data from the printer over to the camera. We also use their DVRs to control lights here/there. Clients can login, see a map of their building, click an icon and their lights turn on.

Very neat stuff, all done via THEIR relay modules, you dont need 3rd parties.

But thats getting off topic.

Keep in mind if you use Axis/VivoTeck alone, you WILL need an NVR as they are just cameras. And i think Axis has a SOFTWARE package, but again i dont know how reliable it is. I know vivotek has a small NVR but its not many channels at all.

I like the systems we build, because i can customize them, since im building them.

Good information. Limitations of 16 or 32 cameras will not cut it. I am looking for something for the NVR that is just software that I can load on a server. We will virtualize the NVR inside a virtual machine so I can get it 4, 8, 16 processors with 8,16,32GB of ram if need be.
Having to use a hardware appliance is not what we are looking for.

We have terabytes of storage space on our file servers so we want something that we can point to a file share NFS and never thinking about it again.

You want to run an NVR system INSIDE a virtual machine? Hate to break it to you, but i dont think thats going to work at all. NVRs use a lot of power, and a virtual machine probably won't put off near the amount of power you need. You really need a dedicate system (multiple systems) for this.

You have to understand IP cameras require a good amount of processing power. 32 IP cameras is a lot of cameras to handle. You'll have to split off more then 32 between multiple sytems.

Now of course this is the recording end, there is software for monitoring these cameras. Say you have 3 systems, each recording 32 ip cameras each. thats 96 ip cameras. You can then have another server that has a live view of those 96 cameras. You can split this between multiple monitors if you like... you could say have 1 server with say 6 monitors. One monitor could be outside cameras, one inside, one monitoring storage rooms, one maybe a visitor entrance, etc..

you can basically view whatever combo you like via the software. But the recording side SHOULD be seperatte. 32 channels PER server.

If you want to do this via vmware, you'll be in for a surprise when it fails. Its not the storage you have to worry about its the processing power, it requires a good amount of power to read from 32 IP cameras at once...

Again, i DO NOT RECOMMEND you use a virtual machine... you can if you want but you've been warned... im not a virtual machine guru but i do know you want something dedicated rather then shared

Update. GeoVision actually makes an NVR Recording server that can record up to 128 IP cameras. That might be more of what you are looking for.

@Adam, I realize you must do IP cameras every day, but I do server virtualization every day. There hasn't been a single server yet that I can't virtualize and get better performance from.
If a virtual machine has 4 cores, that is 4 VIRTUAL cores that is splitting load across lets say 8 physical cores (assuming dual socket quad core xeons).

The client software will be loaded on workstations for monitoring, but I do not buy into the "dedicated appliance" myth. Any company that says we have to use an appliance I immediately write them of. Appliances are a way for a company to lock you in and sell you overpriced supermicro garbage.

One of our vendors suggested
www.milestonesys.com and their stuff looks promising.

Then we just need to figure out the cameras we would buy.

cyron_k0r - we use Milestone with our VIvotek camera. This is on much smaller scale but we usually grab a Optiplex 390 desktop tower or something with an i5 and 4gb memory, add 1 or 2 TB hard drive and install MileStone. In that software you can tell which cameras to record to which drive. The software is great.

This is a cost per camera but its like 60 bucks. Again this is on the Pro series so probably more as you go up. Very powerful software.

Axis is one of the top names, but when we have compared similar spec cameras the Vivotek always come out cheaper and the same or better quality. Axis software will get expensive.

This is a little more of a higher-end solution, but you get GORGEOUS results. Avigilon cams. Pretty intuitive NVR setup, and incredible detail from their cams. I used to work for a company taht deployed Avigilon stuff.

Can you use milestone and have avigilon cameras? Or do you have to use the avigilon NVR software?

Does milestone support recording from high end HD cameras like the avigilon types?

Vivotek cameras come with a software called ST7501 which works fine for recording and monitoring- we even use their iPhone app to monitor our cameras from phones. It'll go up to 32 cameras, then you can upgrade to their VAST software if you need more. Admittedly, the software has a couple of minor glitches, but it works well for being a free bundle item.

Edit- ST7501 doesn't use very many resources. It'd work well in a VM in my opinion. With 8 cameras my old dual core Xeon server only hits about 5% CPU usage and very low network utilization.

Milestone Supported Cams

Doesn't Look like they support Avigilon.

Pelco anyone?

Naw stay away from Pelco. Their DVR"s are not that hot. They are well known because of their PTZs and they do make good PTZs but i am NOT a fan of their DVRs. I have clients switching off the pelco systems over to us.

Milestone is a good name. Ive never used them but i hear their name used a lot. Its on that professional level.

Dont go and buy a dell, build your system. If your on here and you can do vmware, you can build yourself a system.

I personallly use Asus motherboards now (switched from Gigabyte) with 1155 chipsets. I use i3 processors for my 16 channel DVRS and 2GB ram, and for my 32 channel IP systems i use 4gb of ran and an i7. Im still using windows xp pro x32 since its what we've been using for ghost images for years.

If yuo want more then that, then you can go with 8GB of ram and a x64 OS like win 7 which will be fine.

Im NOT a fan of using vmware, im sorry but im just not, i like my DVR dedicated to 1 machine so its all it does.If the DVR goes down i can service it without taking down every other system on the vmware server (meaning hardware changes).

I have clients who run vmware servers who still keep the DVRs seperate.

You came on here for advice, please, take it, or don't, thats up to you, but you've been given some good info here.

Your next thing is to find a vendor. Dont try and do this yourself if youve NEVER done this and have no experience, leave it to us pros. You have the knowledge now so when you look for a CCTV business you know you want maybe a GeoVision IP Recording solution or a Milestone DVR, and you want Vivotek cameras, go in with those ideas in mind.

You DONT need pelco DVR nor do you ant it. You DONT need or want axis either, too expensive, and vivotek is the SAME quality if not a little better (i had issues with axis firmware needing to be updated all the time)

I think Pelco is the Snap-On tools of the CCTV industry, people want that name.
Mossman out.

Just to give a +1 to Vivotek cameras. I use them in my line of work and they are great. I had the chance to alpha test one of their wireless N prototypes and I can tell you that vivotek has some sweet stuff coming down the pipe. If their new cameras are anything like that prototype I used, they will be THE camera maker to buy from. The full HD video was flawless over wireless and even better when wired.

I saw some of their new products also, they were in my area the other day so I met up with them briefly while stopping at my distributor. They have a nice IP bullet camera that has day/night mode. Worked pretty well.

I busted their chops about me having to buy an IP license when I use their cameras with my GeoVision gear... GeoVision makes the same stuff as Vivotek, only not as high quality.

Vivotek has a 5MP FIsheye, and now GeoVIsion has one too.

Adam, you do not need to buy any license if you use the included software. I bet you would need to buy a license for using Geovision on a different NVR software like Milestone.

Vivotek is great so far. I use those and want to try the new UBNT gear to see if we can offer a cheaper solution for people in teh analog price range.

What marley? LOL

If I buy a GeoVision camera i don't have to buy a license when I use it on my GeoVision NVR, as they include that free. But if I want to use a VivoTeck camera on my GeoVision system, then I have to buy a GeoVision 3rd party IP license.

Not sure how vivotel/etc.. do it, i saw vivoteks NVR and it only did 8 channels, i need something much larger, in the 32 camera range, so their product wasnt for me.

I havnt looked into their software stuff yet, if they even offer anything.

Milestone i havnt touched yet but its hear its good, but pricey

When you say UBNT you refering to Ubiquitis products, the antennas??? If so i use them all the time. Great products, great price. Just watch your load. We threw i'd say 10 or so IP cameras over at the Wantagh Park boat slips, and we have 1 antenna per IP camera, they all feed back to 2 receiving antennas on the main building... at full resolution it killed the network, we had to drop the resolution in half, its wireless afterall and it couldnt handle that many IP cameras.., now had we maybe some better receiving equipment rather then 2 antennas (sorry they call them "radios") woulda worked well

Now if the UBNT you refer to isnt the above, ignore what i said, lol

We have a bosch dibos system at work. It is fantastic. It meets all your requirements.

Adam said:

Not sure how vivotel/etc.. do it, i saw vivoteks NVR and it only did 8 channels, i need something much larger, in the 32 camera range, so their product wasnt for me.

Click to expand...

They have a bundled application similar to GeoVision, but not quite as feature rich. It's called ST7501. It works just fine, and can handle 32 cameras. See my post above.

Adam said:

Not sure how vivotel/etc.. do it, i saw vivoteks NVR and it only did 8 channels, i need something much larger, in the 32 camera range, so their product wasnt for me.

Click to expand...

From the looks of it you buy multiple NVRs and then you would need to get their central management software that will give you access to all the NVRs. Pretty standard setup really.

I wouldn't recomment putting more than 16 or so cameras on a single NVR for performance reasons and to spread out the load. Rememder if your NVR is down, then nothing is being recorded.

I have heard from our distributor that the nvr units from vivotek are having issues he still recommends building own

+1 on AXIS cameras for me. That is all we use, but haven't gone as high in numbers as you folks.

+1 for Milestone. They have a great range of products from their free version all the way to their corporate line. Since you are in IT you should be able to get it through your distribution channels you use.

It does all the great features people listed here including intergration. You can run it on a virtual plateform as well. There are other NVR systems out there but this software is up there. Pricing per channel is not that bad either and if you do have any analog cameras you can get an encoder for them if you wish. Take a look at their website they have trials.

Dont be afraid to look at other brands besides axsis as well... Big players are out there with great quality... it all depends on your needs.

Just keep in mind how many cameras for bandwidth and size of your datastores as well.

We are using Pelco cameras and AXIS DVR software.

I have a question for the guru's here. We are putting in 16 camera's at a remote location. The vendor quoted us a server from ExactQ, which appears really over priced. It also has a single WD Enterprise class 2 TB hard drive. I was thinking of putting in a 2 TB RAID array instead, and leave the OS on its own hard drive. If I save data to the RAID instead of a single drive, is there anything I should be aware for read/write speeds? Any particular RAID configuration that you would recommend for this application?

Had a meeting with our vendor today about the cameras.

We were really impressed with the milestone software and its capabilities.
The cameras they demoed to us were from panasonic.
We liked them a lot.

So it looks like Panasonic PoE cameras with milestone is where we are going.

Update. We have competing quotes for the cameras. We will stick with the milestone software, but we can't decide between panasonic and Axis cameras.

The Axis cameras seem to be right around the same price as the panasonics. Any one recommend one over the other?

We had bad luck with Panasonic on one job. The vivotek was much better.

Did you try vivotek or just went with axis?

marley1 said:

We had bad luck with Panasonic on one job. The vivotek was much better.

Did you try vivotek or just went with axis?

Click to expand...

I wish i could afford axis for my house, i need to buy 2-3 but they are so $$$$

We use March Networks for our security camera solution. They have quite a number of large scale enterprise clients (I believe one of them has a network of several thousand cameras). Their solution is completely scalable. If you want to know more let me know I've got a few contacts over there that can assist you.

Protoform-X said:

They have a bundled application similar to GeoVision, but not quite as feature rich. It's called ST7501. It works just fine, and can handle 32 cameras. See my post above.

Click to expand...

I have a client who is running Luxriot software (on just a normal computer) to manage their cameras, but they are all Vivotek cameras. I was thinking of installing the Vivotek software instead since it looks like it can do the same stuff, and has an iPhone / iPad app.