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BF3, MW3 Wouldn't Be Popular If There Was A Draft
- Thread starter HardOCP News
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if a draft sours the console noobs suck of duty milk I say bring it on. anything to help get rid of suck of duty and this console noob first person shooter crap. they should draft Evey console noob that plays suck of duty so the have Pts issues and never want to play a horrible console noob first person shooter ever again. and we can get real fps like quake and ut99 2004 again.
BF3 was completely developed in Sweden by DICE and as I've heard it's quite popular in that country.
Umm, what?
Duh. The point is all too obvious to anyone who has been in war, and lived thru the horrors of it. It's not a game, it's not fun, there are no graphics issues. It's ugly, and loud, and rife with foul odors. We need to bring back the draft, if only to force the young into making moral choices they can so easily avoid today.
Bringing back the draft would be the worst possible thing to do to the us armed forces. A sudden influx of out of shape officer workers that don't want to be there, isn't going to help anything.
JimmayLong
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Agreed with ya wizdum.
crowley666
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I'll take "What is bullshit?" for 300, Alex!
Falling Anvil
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Forget the young, a big point for mandatory military service is to prevent the old from declaring wars or having undeclared wars in the first place. Politically a draft relegates any military into mostly a defensive force.
Emission
Supreme [H]ardness
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Emission
Supreme [H]ardness
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QFT.
Truth. Politicians will think twice (or thrice) before going to war since they know it will directly effect a large portion of the voting public (those that COULD be drafted). The longer term impact of a draft is that elected politicians end up being people who were eligible to be drafted, so there's more awareness and empathy for troops in their minds.
Stupid journalists are stupid. All the military types I know love shooties and play them pretty regularly. Hell an online gaming group I was in for a time was composed mostly of active duty and former military members. This idea that somehow if you've been in the military you'll hate guns is stupid.
PynkFloydd
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Wait... WHAT?!?!
I had OSUT (One Stop Unit Training) because I was infantry, so AIT and Basic were together. ...even in AIT, we'd only have a weekend pass occasionally. It wasn't until Airborne school where we'd have weekends "off". ...granted, this was in the 90s.
Has basic really gotten that "soft"?
TwistedAegis
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I'm assuming they left for basic, while in the clan? Never seen someone still gaming while being in basic at the same time.
D
Deleted whining member 223597
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It would be for me. Not a US citizen
Tons of idiots are the military already and the qualify for benefits that they otherwise wouldn't get had they worked in the corporate world. Sure the pay is somewhat shitty starting out but the military has great benefits. Why do you think people marry so young in the military or have children? It is a massive loop hole.
If anything the military should have lay offs. The defense budget is bankrupting this country.
This is retarded. If there was a draft like their was during Vietnam it would mean that some shit was going down and we needed a massive ground force. Usually this indicates invasion and usually this means a huge bloody fucking mess.
New media would cover it like a plague. 90 percent of the news during Vietnam was directed towards the war. People would be so desensitized to warfare that the act of playing a fantasy warfare wouldn't be appealing. So yes they are right in a sense.
New media would cover it like a plague. 90 percent of the news during Vietnam was directed towards the war. People would be so desensitized to warfare that the act of playing a fantasy warfare wouldn't be appealing. So yes they are right in a sense.
TwistedAegis
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The military is the largest jobs program in the country. The US DOD is the largest employer in the world.
PynkFloydd
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Sorry, but it sounds like you have very little experience with the military and even less with economics.
On average, I was "in the field" at least 2 weeks out of every month. During that time, it meant working 24/7 with little or no sleep...or food...in miserable conditions that you can only imagine in your worst nightmare. Not even taking into consideration deployments, paying a soldier MINIMUM wage for the same amount of work would cost the government well over $100k/year (per soldier, not even using an Overtime scale).
Just for comparison, I have a few friends that got out and are working for private companies like Blackwater. My one friend is set to make over $300k this year!
Let's even compare soldiers that aren't in direct engagement. How much does an average IT guy make? What about a nurse? Doctor? Engineer? These are all jobs in the military. They also don't get paid any more than any other soldier.
The benefits aren't that great. Seriously, they're not. ...and once an enlistment or reup contract is signed, you're at the mercy of the government. You can't complain and you sure as hell can't sue or walk away. You can't even fucking complain to your boss (seriously, it's an Article 15). By the way, the last enlistment before retirement is "unlimited". That means that the military lets you go when THEY feel they don't need you anymore. Do you realize that I spent my teenage years treating jungle rot and blistered feat (amongst other permanent injuries) in the middle of nowhere while others were drinking away the best time of their life aka college?
As for your idiotic statement of, "Why do you think they marry young and have so many kids?" When you go in at 17 (as I did) and that's your career, what else are you going to do besides try to find someone to settle down with and have life suck less? Do you know how fucking HARD it is to have a relationship when you're gone 70% of the time? When you find someone that doesn't screw everyone while you're away and is willing to stick through the shit, hell yeah, you marry them. As for kids... Dude, you be gone for a few months to a year from your loved one and see what happens when you get back. A kid might pop out 9 months later.
Seriously, educate yourself before you start talking shit.
Dear lord, these are the people defending our country...why would anybody talk trash about them?
PynkFloydd
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You'd be surprised. A LOT of people have resentment for their own choices in life and try to take it out on other people. ...especially when they think "the grass is greener on the other side".
Besides defending the country, we also did humanitarian aid. Some units (like the Army Corps of Engineers) even focus on domestic projects. Hell, my old unit got sent down to Katrina's aftermath even. You literally serve the country's needs.
USN Submariner here, call me biased but Ive got a few more facts than you do friend.
Life does suck a lot of the time and your right were should be paid more, but were paid well, Im now on shore duty being paid the same amount I was working 2-3 hour workdays some days. Trust me, there isnt much "average" time but there is a lot of really good, and really bad with what I do.
Here's where you should get your facts straight. Ive been through schools with people working for blackwater, which has changed its name now I believe btw. Your right that these people get paid REALLY well for the most part, here's what you dont know though. There benefits are slim to none, if your doing something and end up getting hurt to the point you cant work for them anymore, thats it, your done. Atleast if this happens in the military 90% of the time your taken care of, (I know this isnt always true).
Like I said this isnt something I just heard this was straight from the horse's mouth.
I am glad this was taken out of context.
Because in the corporate world I didn't expect conscription. What do we need to conscript. I am talking about a number of people who go into the military because they don't have skills otherwise. We aren't talking about people who join the military and have nothing going for them, we are talking about people who grew up in poor neighborhoods, attended poor schools and generally have no skills in life.
The military goes directly after those people.
As far as the marrying young thing and having kids. You are attaching too much emotion to it. It is a benefit that is highly abused by people who aren't even on benefits in the first place.
Because in the corporate world I didn't expect conscription. What do we need to conscript. I am talking about a number of people who go into the military because they don't have skills otherwise. We aren't talking about people who join the military and have nothing going for them, we are talking about people who grew up in poor neighborhoods, attended poor schools and generally have no skills in life.
The military goes directly after those people.
As far as the marrying young thing and having kids. You are attaching too much emotion to it. It is a benefit that is highly abused by people who aren't even on benefits in the first place.
You guys who are arguing about the conditions of being in the armed forces, doesn't it depend heavily on your MOS? I was thinking about joining to be a Pharmacy Technician in the Army, and for someone in that field, the worst situation you'd be in is being deployed to a base in Afghanistan or Iraq. Besides that I'd be doing the same things that I'd be doing as a civilian. At least this is what the recruiters told me.
Now if you're an infantryman, that's another story. No one said war is pretty, and you signed up for it, but yeah, that sounds like no fun at all. But hey, you don't pay taxes while deployed, and you get the hazard bonus (which is piddly shit IMO).
Now if you're an infantryman, that's another story. No one said war is pretty, and you signed up for it, but yeah, that sounds like no fun at all. But hey, you don't pay taxes while deployed, and you get the hazard bonus (which is piddly shit IMO).
PynkFloydd
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When I was in, I got Jump Pay ($150/mo), Foreign Language Pay ($150/mo, if I remember right), and Hazardous Duty Pay (another $150/mo, I think). When deployed, my pay was tax free + hostile fire zone (or something like that, pay of $150 or so/month). This was all plus base pay for grade. I don't remember ever crossing the $30k/yr mark. There is never a short day in the infantry (even if you're not in the field or deployed). ...and if you're in a rapid deploy unit, you can't even take leave whever you want (since there's a "block leave DRF cycle"). I did love my job despite the sucky times though. (I mean, I literally could have picked ANY job in ANY branch, but I demanded airborne infantry because I had a passion for it.)
My entire point though, was that you can't measure military labor by civilian standards. ...especially "corporate". On the "outside", there are overtime, insane per diem, petty cash allotments, proft sharing and even 401k plans. Did you know some of my non-military friends get their rent paid for by their job in addition to other benefits??! I'm talking about nice places downtown. wtf? Hell, I even got a free car from my last job and all of my gas paid for (plus a hell of lot of $$)!
In comparison, the government is getting seriously cheap labor.
Now, I have talked to some buddies. One of those was with the 173rd Airborne in Vicenza and he did say he reported about $80k on taxes during a 1yr combat deployment in the Korangal Valley + COLA (cost of living adjustment for Italy) + getting shot through the brachial nerve. He's still in and gets ZERO disability pay.
I also have a buddy that was "disabled" by an IED and left service. If I remember right, he gets about $2500/month for 100% disability. That's not that much for a permanent disability. If you compare that to civilian disability, that's still FAR below what you'd get paid for an injury on duty. Not to mention that most people in the civilian world would sue for millions for an injury that happened in the workplace.
Luckily, none of my friends who have gone private have been injured. I do talk to a lot of them daily via Facebook. While I don't know what exactly any insurance or disability program would pay, I do know that their benefits are outstanding. Their training programs are THE gold standard. I have friends who were with Ranger Battalion and SOCOM that were sent to their PRIVATE programs to get superior training that even the Army couldn't provide. Their food and lodgings are also superior. My one friend has 24/7 access to internet and phone. Equipment is also whatever the "best" is at the moment. Also, my one friend gets to stay in an office now post promotion AND makes more money. Not a bad deal at all.
Of course, everything has its own benefits. Hell, I'd be back in right now if I hadn't caused some "trouble" after I got out. My comments were specifically geared towards the guy (roaf85) calling the military "a loop hole" with "tons of idiots" which should have "lay offs" because its "bankrupting this country".
Dude, my best friend went to Harvard with poor people from the ghetto that went to poor inner city schools too. In my unit, I had rich kids. (By the way, did you know that West Point is harder to get into than Harvard? ...I had a lot of those guys in my unit too.) The MAJORITY were actually from middle class backgrounds. Most were educated. Are you forgetting that it's a MINIMUM requirement to have a high school diploma or GED to get in AND a clean criminal background?
You know how many people in my entire company (about 150 people) were from the ghetto? 2 Yes...2. Over HALF had some college. My roommate's dad was a professor at UMass. He coulda went there for free WITHOUT joining the military.
I seriously have no clue where you're getting your information from besides stereotyping and pulling random phrases from thin air.
Yes. My entire point was that the direct civilian equivellant has a different pay structure and benefits. At the end of the day, it's really up to the individual to decide what's best for their life.
Again, I loved my job with a passion. (Bureaucracy sucks though.)
I agree with a lot of your points. I get most of the same pay you get as far as the value, I get paid sub pay/sea pay, for food as well as housing. I've only been in 7 years and I was easily making 50k+ after those benefit even at the 5 year point. This is before a nice re-enlistment bonus which I know not every MOS gets. Some of the more well trained people that work on a submarine are pulling in near 100k enlistment bonus'. So the pay isnt horrible. (Not to be misrepresented as me not wanting to get paid more.
Don't get me wrong, when Im deployed there has been days where I havnt slept at all. Days were Ive slept very few hours and day's were life wasnt half bad. Its all give and take though. Life could be a lot better, yea, but I chose to IMHO take the easy route. I had someone telling me what needed to get done until I was the guy telling people what needed to get done. For people like me that isnt that bad of a life. Things could ALWAYS be better though.
And I'm sorry to hear about your friend, its truly horrible to hear things like that. I never said the military healthcare was perfect but its better than being thrown out flat on your butt. As far as I know the healthcare for injured vets is for life as well.
The grass just isnt always greener, I've come to realize that, just a less dead looking brown..
Don't get me wrong, when Im deployed there has been days where I havnt slept at all. Days were Ive slept very few hours and day's were life wasnt half bad. Its all give and take though. Life could be a lot better, yea, but I chose to IMHO take the easy route. I had someone telling me what needed to get done until I was the guy telling people what needed to get done. For people like me that isnt that bad of a life. Things could ALWAYS be better though.
And I'm sorry to hear about your friend, its truly horrible to hear things like that. I never said the military healthcare was perfect but its better than being thrown out flat on your butt. As far as I know the healthcare for injured vets is for life as well.
The grass just isnt always greener, I've come to realize that, just a less dead looking brown..
PynkFloydd
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I agree with a lot of your points. I get most of the same pay you get as far as the value, I get paid sub pay/sea pay, for food as well as housing. I've only been in 7 years and I was easily making 50k+ after those benefit even at the 5 year point. This is before a nice re-enlistment bonus which I know not every MOS gets. Some of the more well trained people that work on a submarine are pulling in near 100k enlistment bonus'. So the pay isnt horrible. (Not to be misrepresented as me not wanting to get paid more.
Don't get me wrong, when Im deployed there has been days where I havnt slept at all. Days were Ive slept very few hours and day's were life wasnt half bad. Its all give and take though. Life could be a lot better, yea, but I chose to IMHO take the easy route. I had someone telling me what needed to get done until I was the guy telling people what needed to get done. For people like me that isnt that bad of a life. Things could ALWAYS be better though.
And I'm sorry to hear about your friend, its truly horrible to hear things like that. I never said the military healthcare was perfect but its better than being thrown out flat on your butt. As far as I know the healthcare for injured vets is for life as well.
The grass just isnt always greener, I've come to realize that, just a less dead looking brown..
Haha. Yeah, exactly. There are definitely pros/cons to both (and definitely agree that the military route provides a faster track to success). I think it's it's all about what works for you. As humans, we're extremely adaptive.
I should probably add that I was counting about $30k/yr without housing, food or additional bonuses. (...but again, civilian world has similiar benefits in the corporate environment.)
VA healthcare is provided if you're retired, if you file a "Means Test" and make under a certain amount (if over, you have to pay) or I think it's up until a year after you get out. I know the injured friends go to the VA, but don't know if it's because of the means test or because of the combat injury though.
Ya know, I don't know a single person (injured or not) that truly regrets serving their country. Which is part of the reason why I'm so blown away by the topic of the article and opinions of some non-military people commenting in this thread.