Samsung SA850 on PLS - the first review has been published (preproduction unit)

Just an FYI, Buy.com allows a return with no restocking fee even if the box has been opened and the item is not defective.
 
HP ZR27 with aggressive AG coating=rotten raspberry/permanently defective (if you notice) vs luck of the draw with the Samsung's.
 
I have the ZR27 and the AG doesn't turn me off, so it's not a raspberry in my opinion. Then again, having not owned glossy before, I don't really have a basis of comparison. Once the Samsung arrives, I can compare them both side by side and see if the AG on the Samsung is indeed less of a hinderance upon image quality as some folks here say it is. If so, then yes, I'd probably agree with you about the HP. I'll say this for the HP- no noticeable backbleed or dead pixels.
 
peppergomez said:
I have the ZR27 and the AG doesn't turn me off, so it's not a raspberry in my opinion. Then again, having not owned glossy before, I don't really have a basis of comparison. Once the Samsung arrives, I can compare them both side by side and see if the AG on the Samsung is indeed less of a hinderance upon image quality as some folks here say it is. If so, then yes, I'd probably agree with you about the HP. I'll say this for the HP- no noticeable backbleed or dead pixels.
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One thing I like to do is take an image and move it around using the mouse. A screen with AG will show a pattern that does not move on top of the image that is moving. Then you suddenly notice that your screen looks dirty :)

Glossy does not have this problem but it has its other issues. I'm hoping that the Samsung is the best of both worlds. The only LCD display that I have seen which I thought was a perfect balance is a high end Sony laptop.
 
I got my s27A850d today and I love it. I was waiting for this monitor since March and it has exceeded expectations.

There is hardly any backlight bleed. Just a tiny bit on the bottom edge right above the Samsung logo, about 3" wide. Even if I look for it specifically I cannot find it unless the screen is completely black. With mixed black and non-black elements, such as the [H] forum skin I cannot find it even if I look. Even with a completely black screen it is significantly less bright than the IPS glow. It is 50 to 100 times better than the backlight bleed on my 3008WPF which is actually occasionally annoying.

The sparkle effect which constantly irritated me on the 3007WPF, and the 3008WPF, along with the U3011 that I used for a bit, is gone. Halleluiah!

This is my first 16:9 screen and it feels ridiculously wide. The DPI is lovely coming from a 1920x1200 15.4" laptop which was a little too much as I had to crouch over for comfortable text reading.

Now I just need a 7970 to drive it and my build will be complete. For the moment. ;)
 
Ordered yesterday at noon, received today by 3pm. Fast service as always from the egg, and I just might have to pull UPS off my shit list. (not bad for $8.95 worth of 3 day super saver shipping)

No dead pixels, minimal if any backlight bleed. Whites are pure white, blacks are very black. No sign of any graininess, the filter reminds me of the filter on my TN which is a good thing.

Color reproduction when viewing some of the photos that I took is pretty damn nice, I'm not an expert but they look the way I remember. All I need to do is buy a calibrator or find a profile online in a review or somewhere else. This thing was gonna burn my eyes out until I lowered the brightness.

edit:

Does anyone remember if there was a review with a color profile I could dl?
 
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Only online retailers are selling the samsungs, all of which have poor return policies. NC1X is your best bet but you have to pay 40$ for their 1 month no dead pixel (given the uniformity issuesd this would be wise) warranty. I doubt futureshop or best buy will get these. :mad:

Use pricebat/shopbot.ca and get NC1X to price match (Canada computers is selling it for 816$ vs 880$ from NC1X). Might want to double check some of the other sites return policies, but most of them charge a 15% restocking fee and will only exchange if the LCD has 7 dead pixels or is defective. Given the poor qc purchasing one of these from a place with a good return/exchange policy is a must.
 
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ufoncz said:
I published my review of Samsung S27A850D on ExtraHardware.cz:

http://translate.google.com/transla.../samsung-s27a850d-prvni-27-s-pls-budete-chtit
Click to expand...

Awesome review, very well done!

I applied the second icc profile from your review, set brightness on 30, and contrast on 75. It looks fantastic, this in an incredible monitor. Thank you!

Link to your profile,

http://extrahardware.cnews.cz/files...ens/s27a850d-25.10.11-custom-22-131cd-lut.icc
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Any Dr.Who fans here? Season 5 - episode 10, was an amazing episode which featured the Dr. going back in time to meet Van Gogh. The conclusion of the show had the Dr. bring a self doubting Van Gogh into the present day Paris to discover the legacy of his paintings. Brilliant episode, imo.

First thing I wanted to do with this monitor is stare at some of his paintings, the way he used colors was amazing.

short clip of the ending,

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdkmyd_doctor-who-2005-5x10-vincent-and-th_shortfilms


full episode,

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdklsg_doctor-who-2005-5x10-vincent-and-th_shortfilms#rel-page-3

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdkvz5_doctor-who-2005-5x10-vincent-and-th_shortfilms#rel-page-1

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdkmyd_doctor-who-2005-5x10-vincent-and-th_shortfilms#rel-page-1

(I love the moment that Van Gogh walks inside the Tardis.)
 
brod said:
No offence to anyone here but I would trust the opinions of a site like CNET a lot more than anyone on a forum due to the below phenomenon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-purchase_rationalization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias
Click to expand...

No offense, but I would trust my own eyes and calibration kit over anything else, especially CNET (whose settings only work if your monitor is bathed in the light from an exploding sun).

I budget plenty of money for monitor purchases and would not hesitate to send my S27A850D back if it didn't pass muster. I would be happy to purchase an NEC or EIZO if necessary.

The monitor is fantastic; I have posted pictures. And I am not the only one here who is of that opinion. In fact, even CNET seems to love it.

Take your dime-store psychology to a thread where it will be appreciated.
 
Set up the SA850. Yes, there is some backlight bleed in the lower right...however, I have to be actively looking directly at it (i.e., intentionally staring at it) for it to be really noticeable. I tried out viewing photos with lots of darkness, playing some dark levels in a game, and watching a movie. The bleed isn't distracting.

Based on the out-of-the box calibration, I have to say that it looks better than the HP ZR2740W. I compared them side by side on two different computers, looking at the same pictures. (As far as I know, my graphics and desktop video settings were at default on both sets of AMD cards). The Samsung had the edge for richness.

So, my 3 HP ZR2740W monitors are going back and I'm going to take a chance and order 2 more SA850s, though I'll return any if they have heinous backlight bleeding like some have posted here.

FTW- my ipad also has backlight bleed in the same area of the screen, and it's never bothered me (until recently, I never even knew to look for it).

Oh, and yes- there does seem to be a less grainy picture quality (especially noticeable while editing text in Microsoft Word) on the Samsung compared to the HP...maybe that's the result of a less aggressive AG?

Finally, it's really cool how thin the monitor is.
 
Ok, so I picked one of these up after some price matching fun from NC"eye"X
LS27A850DS/ZA made in Mexico September of 2011.

Initial impressions:

1) Ships at 100% brightness. Duh. Typical LED panel requires little to no warm up. Whites seem more "CCFL-like" than my U2412M or other LED displays I've seen, which is actually good.

2) Anti-glare is similar to Samsung S-PVA panels where it allows stronger reflections but preserves sharpness a bit better and definitely shows lower noise on whites. Text is extremely sharp as a result.

3) Slight back-light bleed at top, about a third of the way in, about two inches in width, but very slight, and not very visible unless I'm actively searching for it. I think this will improve over some time. It's not enough for me to return it per se, as it is less than half an inch in height and fairly subdued. Photos will bear this out in a bit.

4) Viewing angles seem almost exactly the same as non-A-TW polarized 27" panels from LG, which is quite good. There is silvery glow on blacks which is visible on and off angle, but, just like the LG 27" 2560x1440 panels, it's more silvery than the 30" and 24" panels I've seen.

5) No dead, stuck or otherwise damaged pixels that I can see. I usually test again after a day as I've seen some crop up in the past after a few viewing hours.

6) It definitely has a small amount of input lag, somewhere between 1 - 2 frames, but I'll check it again with CRT or with my U2412M and SMTT.

7) Gamma mode2 and mode3 are fricking useless. They only induce banding and crush blacks. Typical Samsung stupid color modes. MagicColor should disappear too. It doesn't belong in a business screen.

8) Thankfully, brightness regulation seems wide and blacks improve quite a bit at the lower end of the brightness scale (between 0 and 25 or so). More tests to come. Contrast seems ok.

9) The sharpness control is fairly good because it has 25 levels (0 to 100 in steps of 4), the unfortunate part is that about 15 of them don't do much :) but the factory level of 60 is fine. Haloing on clear type text doesn't start showing up until about level 68 - 72, and text starts to show blurring at about 44 and less.

10) Monitor looks expensive but feels cheaper than it should. It has a 2 cm bezel which is fine, but it is very thin, and very easy to twist the whole assembly. My Dell U2412M is lighter and yet feels more robust and impervious to harm than this thing. I feel like I could easily snap the whole screen apart by just torquing it with not very much force in my two hands. The U2711 feels far better built and resistant to damage than this. My NEC screens feel like they could survive a hurricane, while this doesn't.

EDIT: This monitor is actually quite flimsy. It needs a crapload more internal bracing.

11) I'm inclined to agree with Albovin and reviews that the PLS screen's W-LED back-light is wide gamut in blues, and surprisingly, also in reds. Color calibration from factory is ok. Greys seem a tiny bit "brownish" to me.

EDIT: I'm going to say this screen is almost wide gamut. Even greens seem over saturated. I'm going to test it next to a wide gamut screen tomorrow.

12) Response time seems neither better, nor worse than an overdriven 27" IPS panel, but a bit slower than an overdriven 30". Faster and Fastest didn't seem to show much difference in response time, but "Fastest" shows more reverse overdrive effects.


All in all, it's a good, not spectacular monitor. It cost me a bit more than my previous U2711 did, and to be honest, I feel that the U2711 on sale is a better deal due to more inputs and better overall build quality. Yeah it has the anti-glare and slightly overcooked sRGB mode, but as a total package, I feel that it has more uses than the S27.

More to come soon (photos and calibration stuff).
 
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No one has mentioned any dead pixels with this monitor.
N C I X Express Coverage is for dead/stuck pixels and does not apply to backlight bleed, and since no one has mentioned any dead pixels it might not be worth it to pay extra for the coverage?

Memory Express has a 7 day no questions asked return policy. There is also no restocking fee.
I am tempted to get a monitor from them, but this is the first time I have ever heard about them.
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX35800(ME).aspx

10e, If the frame is so thin, could you nudge the bezel a bit wth your fingers to see if the backlight bleed will improve?

peppergomez, samsung vs HP, which one has more input lag?
 
I believe some one posted pics of theirs with tons of dead pixels in the last couple of pages

With the NC1X coverage you can just say it has 1 dead pixel and they should give you one. That is how it has always worked for me at least. Thanks for the link, I might get 1 from ME since they do price match. Canada Computers is selling these for 816$, price match them.
 
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WickedWeasel said:
No one has mentioned any dead pixels with this monitor.
N C I X Express Coverage is for dead/stuck pixels and does not apply to backlight bleed, and since no one has mentioned any dead pixels it might not be worth it to pay extra for the coverage?

Memory Express has a 7 day no questions asked return policy. There is also no restocking fee.
I am tempted to get a monitor from them, but this is the first time I have ever heard about them.
http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX35800(ME).aspx

10e, If the frame is so thin, could you nudge the bezel a bit wth your fingers to see if the backlight bleed will improve?

peppergomez, samsung vs HP, which one has more input lag?
Click to expand...

It's like any insurance policy: Useless until you need it. I bought it, as I do with all the monitors I get from there.

I pulled the bezel with my fingers where the back-light bleed is and it diminished. It looks to be a problem where the monitor assembly bends and causes the bezel to put pressure on the sides.

Too bad because I actually like this monitor a lot, even if it doesn't sound like it ;)

I would be very inclined to believe that the HP has less input lag. My Dell U2412M is in the same class (according to TFTCentral) as the HP and it definitely has less input lag than the Samsung. I would rate the Samsung as being 1 - 2 frames of lag visually.

NCX said:
I believe some one posted pics of theirs with tons of dead pixels in the last couple of pages

With the NC1X coverage you can just say it has 1 dead pixel and they should give you one. That is how it has always worked for me at least. Thanks for the link, I might get 1 from ME since they do price match. Canada Computers is selling these for 816$, price match them.
Click to expand...

Someone got what looked like a panel that should have been rejected. It had finger prints on it on the previous page: http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1037955880&postcount=675
 
I want, one but I have a feeling that the early adopters are going to get burned when the next models come out performance wise given the decent debut performance of the PLS displays.

@10e

Can you hook up your 360/PS3 and see if there are any scaling/over-scan issues?

Semi-glossy coating is not the same as the medium anti-glare the old Samsung S-PVA panels used which are noticeably grainier than their C-PVA panels. I would know after owning a 275t.:)
 
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NCX said:
I want, one but I have a feeling that the early adopters are going to get burned when the next models come out performance wise given the decent debut performance of the PLS displays.

@10e

Can you hook up your 360/PS3 and see if there are any scaling/over-scan issues?

Semi-glossy coating is not the same as the medium anti-glare the old Samsung S-PVA panels used which are noticeably grainier than their C-PVA panels. I would know after owning a 275t.:)
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This monitor is lighter than the LCD2690WUXI-BK I have, and that's similar to the 245T/275T units we have in the office. If the AG on this screen is too noisy for anyone, they should simply stop posting on [H], it's that smooth.


I used my old TigerDave images with the PS3, and it's perfect in terms of overscan. 1280x720 is actually a little better quality in terms of interpolation as it's exactly half the monitor's resolution. Since most games appear at that resolution on the PS3 it should be fine.

Gradients are smooth and full range RGB is (naturally) supported over HDMI > DVI cable.

I didn't try getting the audio in to work from what I can see of the speakers, better not to even do it.

I am initiating an RMA with NCeyeX though with the dead pixel insurance. A blue sub-pixel died after initial reception. It doesn't really bother me much, but maybe I'll get a unit with more uniform back-light.

Contrast is OK at 730:1 according to my NEC Eye One D2 and BasicColor 4.1.28.
 
730:1 is terrible if there is lots of bleeding, example:
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i432/240hzTeslaStorm/Asus PA238Q/GOW3comparison019.jpg

or if it is like the S27A950D which had light seeping through on the sides which was visible with the lights on, despite the fact that it was glossy.


900:1 left vs right 700:1 @120cdm/2

I can't decide If I want to price match Memory Express to Canada Computers=816$+tax+free shipping and ship it back if there is a problem (hassle?) or pay for shipping+NC1X's 1 month warranty=1007$=hassle free(?)
 
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NCX said:
730:1 is terrible if there is lots of bleeding, example:
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i432/240hzTeslaStorm/Asus%20PA238Q/GOW3comparison019.jpg]

900:1 left vs right 700:1 @120cdm/2

I can't decide If I want to price match Memory Express to Canada Computers=816$+tax+free shipping and ship it back if there is a problem (hassle?) or pay for shipping+NC1X's 1 month warranty=1007$=hassle free(?)
Click to expand...

I went with NCeyeX instead of "Computers Canada" (Canada Computers is different BTW) due to this warranty. The linked pic is not there either.

$800.00 is not chump change IMHO. I'll post a pic of back-light tonight.
 
Yeah it is around 150$ difference going through Memory Express vs NC1X and to add insult to injury we are paying a premium for the semi-glossy coating+worse uniformity over the HP zr27.

I will have to re-profile my monitor to 2.4 gamma since I am used to 2.2.
 
NC1X has the Samsung on sale for $849.99.
Send them an email, they might do a price match for $816?
It is probably best to wait a while before picking this one up. How long does it usually take for the next revision? 3 Months?

If the frame is so flimsy, shouldn't it be possible to flex it a couple of times to get rid of ALL the backlight bleed?
 
Just add any item to the cart and in the check out it will say start price match, no emailing necessary.

The 150$ difference comes from the warranty and shipping. Memory Express has free shipping right now so it would come to around 860$ after tax and price matching computers Canada, and they have a 7 day return window.

I wish Futureshop would stock these since I have 125$ in gift cards, plus they have the best return policy.
 
WickedWeasel said:
If the frame is so flimsy, shouldn't it be possible to flex it a couple of times to get rid of ALL the backlight bleed?
Click to expand...

I'm convinced I made the BLB a little worse doing that on mine. I'm strongly considering returning it to buy.com for the 2nd time. I really only have BLB in the upper right hand portion of the screen, but it is noticeable enough that it bothers me. I'm just afraid the replacement will be worse.
 
Bladestorm said:
I'm convinced I made the BLB a little worse doing that on mine. I'm strongly considering returning it to buy.com for the 2nd time. I really only have BLB in the upper right hand portion of the screen, but it is noticeable enough that it bothers me. I'm just afraid the replacement will be worse.
Click to expand...
If you made it worse by flexing it, then it may also be possible to make it better by flexing it again. Try flexing it along the entire length of the bezel to straighten it out. At the end, you really have no choice but to return it and try again. If you don't, it will drive you mad. At this point, I am too focused on the BLB to ignore it. You have 45 days to return it? If you return it later, you may get an October version.
 
NCX said:
Just add any item to the cart and in the check out it will say start price match, no emailing necessary.

The 150$ difference comes from the warranty and shipping. Memory Express has free shipping right now so it would come to around 860$ after tax and price matching computers Canada, and they have a 7 day return window.

I wish Futureshop would stock these since I have 125$ in gift cards, plus they have the best return policy.
Click to expand...

I did a pick-up from their warehouse near my work/home.

WickedWeasel said:
If you made it worse by flexing it, then it may also be possible to make it better by flexing it again. Try flexing it along the entire length of the bezel to straighten it out. At the end, you really have no choice but to return it and try again. If you don't, it will drive you mad. At this point, I am too focused on the BLB to ignore it. You have 45 days to return it? If you return it later, you may get an October version.
Click to expand...

Damage to the panel is permanent BTW. You start flexing and twisting it and back-light bleed will be the least of your worries, and then good luck returning it.

I only noticed it because I heard a horrendous creak when I was tilting the panel, and weird noises when I was hitting the OSD keys.

I do hope other manufacturers start using these panels and put them in more well-built monitors.
 
Full 1 second exposure, ISO 80, f-stop of 3.5. Brightness set at 29, Contrast at 75 (default), custom color mode which produces 6500K of 39,46,50 (RGB) and 159 cdm/2 whites according to my NEC Eye One/GammaComp Sensor. I use this level on all my screens as they can all hit it without digital darkening.

Comment: I'd say this is a slightly amplified representation, but as you can see, the black level is not very even. The camera was approximately 3.5 feet away. I wanted to make sure I didn't get any white glow. I have to say, regular viewing angles are the same as IPS, but black level white glow seems stronger and more pronounced than the U2711 I had, and somewhat worse than my NEC 24" or Dell 24".

img0074tl.jpg
 
That looks good for 160cdm/2 brightness especially if it better in R/L. I wouldn't return it, I would just use 120cdm/2.
 
I'm not very good at taking these kinds of shots, so if anyone can give me some pointers please let me know.

Monitor - Brightness 35, Contrast 65

Camera - ISO 100, f/4, 0.8 sec. exposure

2u91o2r.jpg
 
Lith1um said:
Just got done chatting with Rachel @ Newegg.

I inquired about their dead pixel policy, they stated that they'd accept a return even if there was only one dead pixel.

I asked if I could return it if I was unsatisfied for any reason, she said if it's not defective it can be returned with no stocking fee if unopened, with restocking fee if it has been opened.
Click to expand...

That's shocking. Last time I spoke to someone two years ago at Newegg it was a minimum of 8 dead/stuck pixels or they wouldn't accept an exchange or return. I believe it still says that on their website.
 
Ordered from Mem Ex, waiting for price match confirmation. Should be 925$ after tax. I used BasICColor to force 2.4 gamma on my VG236H, everything looks much more vibrant (better) except skin tones and the minor loss of shadow detail.
 
Hello, gents!

Now that this monitor has been out a bit longer, I have to ask:

How is the input delay and ghosting, compared to U2311H?
 
icor1031 said:
Hello, gents!

Now that this monitor has been out a bit longer, I have to ask:

How is the input delay and ghosting, compared to U2311H?
Click to expand...


24" should be similar, 27" will have more input lag. Overdrive has three settings so it can vary in terms of ghosting.
 
Compared to the 27".

Are there numbers to say how much more, yet?

Also, have they announced a second generation of these things, yet?

10e said:
24" should be similar, 27" will have more input lag. Overdrive has three settings so it can vary in terms of ghosting.
Click to expand...
 
NCX said:
That looks good for 160cdm/2 brightness especially if it better in R/L. I wouldn't return it, I would just use 120cdm/2.
Click to expand...

That's 29 brightness so it should go lower. I'll measure it when I get my replacement.

NCX said:
Ordered from Mem Ex, waiting for price match confirmation. Should be 925$ after tax. I used BasICColor to force 2.4 gamma on my VG236H, everything looks much more vibrant (better) except skin tones and the minor loss of shadow detail.
Click to expand...

icor1031 said:
Compared to the 27".

Are there numbers to say how much more, yet?

Also, have they announced a second generation of these things, yet?
Click to expand...

Nope, but it's visibly slower than my Dell U2412M and close to my NEC 24" which is around 1.5 frame or 24ms.

Second-gen? It's not even available in high-volume yet, so the only "next-gen" you'll see is if PLS becomes a hit with a higher quality manufacturer like Dell, HP, or NEC.

Tough sell though, LG seems to be able to produce them a lot cheaper than Samsung so far.
 
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