Advice for First Water Cooled Computer - ~$3k Budget

Rickswan · Oct 21, 2011

I began with these three threads on Tom's Hardware: [1] [2] [3]. Someone suggested I post in a forum more geared toward enthusiasts, so here I am. Basically, I have never dealt with watercooling before and am ready to plunge in.

PARTS:
A - Motherboard - Some LGA1155 socket motherboard to compliment the i7 2700k I plan to get (whenever it's officially announced - the 2600k is a placeholder for now)
B - Pump - I'm looking at a MCP655
C - Reservoir - Swiftech MCRES-MICRO Rev2 Reservoir or XSPC Single DDC Dual 5.25" Bay Reservoir
D - Radiator - Probably three of these, coming highly rated from Skinnee Labs: Aqua Computer AirPlex Revolution
E - Power Supply - Corsair AX1200 - Already purchased, will be coming in the mail shortly
F - SSD - a Crucial 128GB SSD, for the main drive
G - Graphics Card - EVGA GTX580 Hydro Copper 2 Graphics Card(s) (perhaps I'll SLI another one on at a later date)
H - Two 3 x 5.25 Bays - bays included with the case
I - Processor - an i7 2700k
J - Case Fans - x4 120mm fans or Cooler Master 120mm or 140mm

... and all of that's going in a Mountain Mods U2UFO case. I made a schematic here:

The case is really nice, it's totally modular so you can choose what walls you want to put in. The choice of walls obviously impacts the placement of parts, so it's important that I pick the right panels. Now before I can set up my loop order, I must know a few things.

RESERVOIR
First, if I get [this] bay reservoir, it looks like it has a pump built in. Would it be fine to have that pump and the MCP655 (the pump I have in mind for the loop) running at the same time? I'm guessing not. Should I just stick with the bay reservoir with a built-in pump and not get the MCP655 at all, or should I just stick with the res I was originally looking at and mount it on the ceiling - the Swiftech MCRES-MICRO Rev2 Reservoir? All I know is that the reservoir should be above the pump, and probably near the top of the case. Also, it should come before, flowing into the pump.

RADIATORS
So as I said before, I am planning on getting three of those Aqua Computer AirPlex Revolutions suggested by Skinneelabs in their comparison chart. Is this a good idea? Should I only get 2? Does it matter where I mount them (i.e. in the front, on the side, etc.)?

TUBING & FITTINGS
I'm leaning toward 1/2" ID tubing, so that's what my goal is. My only concern is A) making sure I get the right fitting to match up parts to the tubing B) figuring out if I should get compression fittings for every connection point on the loop, or if barbs with clamps are better in certain situations.

Also, although most (I think all) the other parts have the standard G1/4" inlet/outlet threads, the MCP655 pump has a 1/2" connection size. That means I need some adapters of some sort, like [this], right?

Clamps, are they measured by OD?

And just to make sure I've got this straight, if I get 1/2" ID 5/8" OD tubing, then I need 1/2" ID 5/8" OD compression fittings, right? And with Barbs, it's usually G1/4" threaded, and then I match up the other end to the ID of my tubing, right? So If my tubing is 1/2" ID 5/8" OD, the compression fittings I'd get would be 1/2" ID 5/8" OD, and the barbs I'd get would be G1/4" threaded and 1/2" ID, right!?

dnottis · Oct 21, 2011

MCP655 is a rock... I've been using one for years. My buddy has one running 24/7 for about the last 7 years. I went through a few MCP355s they are garbage no matter what top they have on them...it will die. Definitely use the MCP655.

The MCP655 is fine as is. It will take 1/2ID or 7/16 (but will be tight as hell). No need for adaptors, also the MCP655 isn't threaded so that adaptor would be usless. Regardless of what the OD is, as long as it's ID 1/2" or 7/16" you are all set.

My vote for barbs and clamps over compression fittings as they can loosen over time, clamps usually come in a large or a smaller size -
http://store.yahoo.com/sidewindercomputers/brmihocl7int.html
http://store.yahoo.com/sidewindercomputers/brmihocl7int1.html

yes G1/4 threading, 1/2" ID (inner). Personally I use 1/2" ID and 3/4" OD.

Sherkhan · Oct 21, 2011

For a single or even 2 580s with a 2600 or 2700k, 2 of those rads should be sufficient (and then some). A third would most likely constitute some major overkill

As dnottis says, the 655 is def a rock <-- I have had 2 of em for years and they still run great.

I would have to agree on the clamps (I always use em anyways). I figure it is better safe than even a slim chance for sorry.

Tsumi · Oct 21, 2011

1. You cannot use that DDC reservoir. It requires a DDC/MCP355 pump to be used with it. It is a pump/reservoir bay combo unit. And no, it does not have a pump built in, it has to be purchased separately.

2. I would use two MCP655's in serial if I were you. You can look at the MCP655 dual tops.

3. You do not need an adapter if you use 1/2" tubing, since the barbs are built in. G 1/4 is the threading, and it is the most common threading used in computer watercooling components. A few rare parts use G 3/8.

4. With that kind of budget, why would you get a Micro-Res V2? There's a lot of really nice looking reservoirs out there, like the FrozenQ T-virus.

5. Not sure why they didn't compare that radiator to the Black Ice GTX radiators. The Black Ice GTX have had the highest performance in the market that I've seen so far. Also, comparing a 420 radiator to a 360 radiator is unfair to say the least. It should have been compared to other 420 radiators, which have a surface area nearly that of a 480 radiator. That chart is really misleading.

6. That radiator is technically a 3x140 radiator, which is much larger than a 3x120 radiator. Sure, they include an adapter to use as a 3x120, but you will have to measure things out to make sure they don't get in the way of each other, and aren't too large for the case.

7. Two 3x120 radiators will be sufficient to cool your system down quietly. However, I would go with something like that Mo-Ra Pro 3 140mm version on your budget. Yes, it will need to be mounted externally, but what can be more impressive than what looks like a wall of fans? Especially when it's also silent? It would also give you more case choice options. And it will cool your future quad-SLI dual CPU system quietly as well.

Rickswan · Oct 23, 2011

Thanks for the replies guys. I would have replied to your responses sooner, but I hit a dead deer and my car's in the shop (hopefully it doesn't set me back too far money-wise

). Anyway, let me respond:

dnottis said:
MCP655 is a rock... I've been using one for years. My buddy has one running 24/7 for about the last 7 years. I went through a few MCP355s they are garbage no matter what top they have on them...it will die. Definitely use the MCP655.

Cool - I've heard nothing bad about the MCP655/D5.
By the way, I keep seeing "top" being mentioned with reservoirs and pumps. Does that just mean what pump is being used in a reservoir? Or, is it another name for the pump's housing?

The MCP655 is fine as is. It will take 1/2ID or 7/16 (but will be tight as hell). No need for adaptors, also the MCP655 isn't threaded so that adaptor would be usless. Regardless of what the OD is, as long as it's ID 1/2" or 7/16" you are all set.

Sweet!

My vote for barbs and clamps over compression fittings as they can loosen over time, clamps usually come in a large or a smaller size -
http://store.yahoo.com/sidewindercomputers/brmihocl7int.html
http://store.yahoo.com/sidewindercomputers/brmihocl7int1.html

Also, they're cheaper!

yes G1/4 threading, 1/2" ID (inner). Personally I use 1/2" ID and 3/4" OD.

Just curious, why do you use that size in particular?

Sherkhan said:
For a single or even 2 580s with a 2600 or 2700k, 2 of those rads should be sufficient (and then some). A third would most likely constitute some major overkill

muahahahahaha...

As dnottis says, the 655 is def a rock <-- I have had 2 of em for years and they still run great.

I would have to agree on the clamps (I always use em anyways). I figure it is better safe than even a slim chance for sorry.

I'll for sure be using clamps if I use barbs - which it seems like they may be a better idea, like dnottis said.

Tsumi said:
1. You cannot use that DDC reservoir. It requires a DDC/MCP355 pump to be used with it. It is a pump/reservoir bay combo unit. And no, it does not have a pump built in, it has to be purchased separately.

Yeah, I found out that that reservoir comes in a D5 variant, but I saw a bad review for it :-/

2. I would use two MCP655's in serial if I were you. You can look at the MCP655 dual tops.

I googled "MCP655 dual tops," you mean something like [this]? Possibly connected with something like [this]? Just curious, why do you suggest I do this?

3. You do not need an adapter if you use 1/2" tubing, since the barbs are built in. G 1/4 is the threading, and it is the most common threading used in computer watercooling components. A few rare parts use G 3/8.

You're right, my B

4. With that kind of budget, why would you get a Micro-Res V2? There's a lot of really nice looking reservoirs out there, like the FrozenQ T-virus.

I saw that! It's sick-looking! They even have a bay-mounted one [here] which has the option of a D5 pump top, if I still wanted to go that route. I'm not sure, what are the advantages and disadvantages, I'm wondering, to having a bay reservoir, or a normal reservoir, and a separate pump or a pump inside the reservoir? One seems like it would save space, while the other seems simpler and easier to monitor.

I guess I like the Micro-Res V2 because I saw good reviews and it seems simple and reliable (and not too costly - I'm not afraid to go under-budget

)

5. Not sure why they didn't compare that radiator to the Black Ice GTX radiators. The Black Ice GTX have had the highest performance in the market that I've seen so far. Also, comparing a 420 radiator to a 360 radiator is unfair to say the least. It should have been compared to other 420 radiators, which have a surface area nearly that of a 480 radiator. That chart is really misleading.

that's weird that they didn't include it. You said the Black Ice GTX had the best performance in the market - just curious, why do you say it's better than the ones in the chart? Can it cool more than them or something?

6. That radiator is technically a 3x140 radiator, which is much larger than a 3x120 radiator. Sure, they include an adapter to use as a 3x120, but you will have to measure things out to make sure they don't get in the way of each other, and aren't too large for the case.

Okay, so the case is the U2UFO [here] by Mountain Mods. It's 18" cubed. I found the dimensions of the airplex Revolution Rad to be 18.3 x 5.75 x 2.48 inches, and the Black Ice GTX Xtreme 360 Radiator had the dimensions of 5.24 x 15.6 x 2.13 inches, so it does look like the airplex is bigger (assuming it goes high x wide x deep).

Anyway, if I get the "duality" front wall that has 6 120mm cutouts, I'm not sure just from looking at it how much width a radiator would be allowed to sit parallel to one another (did that make sense?)

7. Two 3x120 radiators will be sufficient to cool your system down quietly. However, I would go with something like that Mo-Ra Pro 3 140mm version on your budget. Yes, it will need to be mounted externally, but what can be more impressive than what looks like a wall of fans? Especially when it's also silent? It would also give you more case choice options. And it will cool your future quad-SLI dual CPU system quietly as well.

You're right - that would be impressive! The Mo-Ra Pro 3 would actually be cheaper that buying 3 separate triple radiators. The only problem is, I had trouble finding information about it - their site [here] is in German, and I couldn't find a manual. On the U2UFO case, the most fan cutouts on one side are 6, so perhaps something like [this] would work out better. I could always cut out 9 holes, but I have neither the tools nor the confidence to attempt such a feat at this time.

Also, it just occurred to me - do I need to buy fans to place inside a radiator I buy, or do they come with fans in them? Also, I'm 99% positive you usually mount a normal radiator on the inside of the case in most scenarios... right?

Tsumi · Oct 23, 2011

Here is a review on the Mo-ra Pro series. They usually come with a stand so that you don't need to mount them with anything. You just run tubing out of your case to the radiator.

It is not necessary to mount a radiator inside a case. Some do it internally for aesthetic, space, and/or portability reasons. Others do external for aesthetic and/or performance reasons. It's much easier to have a large external setup than a large internal setup.

Radiators never come with fans. You will have to buy those separately.

If you look up reviews of the GTX series, they always take the performance crown, especially with push/pull fan setups.

That EK dual-pump top is one example of what I'm talking about. Once you start having lots of components in your system, especially multiple radiators or one large radiator (in the case of the Mo-Ra), one pump will struggle to keep flow rates up. Two pumps will ensure that the flow rates stay high enough.

I would not use pump/bay reservoir combos. The vibrations from the pump can be transferred to the reservoir, which transfers to the case, creating unwanted noise. Placing the pump on rubber padding ensures the vibrations don't make any noise.

Rickswan · Oct 24, 2011

Tsumi said:
Here is a review on the Mo-ra Pro series. They usually come with a stand so that you don't need to mount them with anything. You just run tubing out of your case to the radiator.

I looked at the link - I am very intrigued. This thing looks sick >: D ! I looked at a video [here] (at around the 2:50 mark) and I saw the stand for mounting it outside the case, which I don't know if I'm comfortable with. I may want to just use the spacers and mount it to the case.

It is not necessary to mount a radiator inside a case. Some do it internally for aesthetic, space, and/or portability reasons. Others do external for aesthetic and/or performance reasons. It's much easier to have a large external setup than a large internal setup.

I suppose that's one way to look at it, I can see how it would be easier to manage, in a way.

Radiators never come with fans. You will have to buy those separately.

Oh wow, I feel like I should have known that

. Any fans, then, that you prefer?

If you look up reviews of the GTX series, they always take the performance crown, especially with push/pull fan setups.

Okay, what is push/pull exactly? I google searched it but couldn't find a clear description

That EK dual-pump top is one example of what I'm talking about. Once you start having lots of components in your system, especially multiple radiators or one large radiator (in the case of the Mo-Ra), one pump will struggle to keep flow rates up. Two pumps will ensure that the flow rates stay high enough.

Hmm, seems logical. I'll have to give that some thought - should I just get 1 pump and decide to upgrade to 2 if I find out the flow rate isn't good enough?

I would not use pump/bay reservoir combos. The vibrations from the pump can be transferred to the reservoir, which transfers to the case, creating unwanted noise. Placing the pump on rubber padding ensures the vibrations don't make any noise.

Oh man, don't want that! I think I heard somewhere that pumps usually come with some sort of padding, but is there any kind that I could purchase for this purpose?

Also, just by chance, I happened to find this on Google while searching up on the Mora 3. It's a post on this forum... by you!

Tsumi said:
1. I recommend the Swiftech Micro-Res V2 as a great budget reservoir. If not on a budget, get one that suits your needs and appeals to you aesthetically, I'm a big fan of those fancy looking Frozen-Q T-virus reservoirs. Also, I recommend you staying away from the 5.25" bay reservoirs that integrate the pump. Pump vibrations can and do travel through the reservoir into the case, causing unnecessary noise. It's always a good idea to place the pump on some padding.
...
1. Why a Mo-RA Pro 3? I would get Gentle Typhoons if you can afford them and find them. They're the best noise/performance fans on the market.

Just curious, you said the Mo-Ra Pro 3 is great - but on that post you discouraged the purchase of one. Why the change? Also, are gentle typhoons just case fans, and they are the best in your opinion?

Tsumi · Oct 24, 2011

I was just questioning his decision on the Mo-Ra Pro3, since in his original post he said nothing about his budget or what he was cooling. Read the rest of the thread, it'll also answer your question about push/pull. I also gave my recommendation for fans in that thread. Unfortunately, there are no Gentle Typhoons in 140mm size. For cheapness, 140mm Yate Loons are your best bet. For best performance and noise, either the Aerocool Shark or Noiseblockers.

Pumps usually come with some sort of padding.

vengence · Oct 24, 2011

If you're going to throw 3K at a computer, you should probably wait for the next gen graphics and the 1336 replacement.

Rickswan · Oct 24, 2011

Tsumi said:
I was just questioning his decision on the Mo-Ra Pro3, since in his original post he said nothing about his budget or what he was cooling. Read the rest of the thread, it'll also answer your question about push/pull.

That's what I figured, it was about his budget. You're right, I should have read the rest of the thread. It goes on to say:

Idef1x said:
it simply means you have fans on each side of the radiator. One pushing air through the radiator, and one pulling the air through the radiator.

I ie. only have a pull configuration on my rads due to lack of space in my case (and it rhymes too).

So it's just how the fans are mounted on the radiator. Check.

I also gave my recommendation for fans in that thread. Unfortunately, there are no Gentle Typhoons in 140mm size. For cheapness, 140mm Yate Loons are your best bet. For best performance and noise, either the Aerocool Shark or Noiseblockers.

Multiplying 9 or 18 by the price of these fans is hefty, but the car repair didn't break my bank, so maybe I'll spring for the nice stuff

Pumps usually come with some sort of padding.

Shweet!

vengence said:
If you're going to throw 3K at a computer, you should probably wait for the next gen graphics and the 1336 replacement.

I wasn't able to find out much about a 1366 replacement (I assume you meant 1366, not 1336). Doesn't look like it'll be ivy bridge, or Sandy Bridge E, so what are the new LGA 1366's that are coming out? I already looked at SB-E and decided I'll pass - if anything I'll upgrade to Ivy Bridge when it comes out Spring 2012

Tsumi · Oct 24, 2011

The successor to the 1366 socket is 2011, which is Sandy Bridge-E, and later on, Ivy Bridge-E. 1366 is being retired after having a long and successful run.

Rickswan · Oct 25, 2011

Tsumi said:
The successor to the 1366 socket is 2011, which is Sandy Bridge-E, and later on, Ivy Bridge-E. 1366 is being retired after having a long and successful run.

Ohh duh, he meant the successor. For some reason I was thinking he meant new boards and processors would be made under the 1366 name

don't know why I thought that.

Okay, so here's my build plans so far:

CASE: Mountain Mods U2UFO = ~$350
PUMP: MCP655 = ~$80 - if running a "dual top" like this guy, ~$160
RADIATOR: MO-RA3 9 x 140mm PRO Extreme Radiator= ~$230 OR x2 Black Ice GTX 360 Xtreme = ~$120 ($240 for 2)
FANS: 3 for the case, and either 6 for 2 normal radiators, or 18 (possible) for the Mo-Ra 3 Pro, so: for cheapness, Yate Loons 140mm = ~$12 (x9 ~$108, x21 ~$252) - for silence/performance, Aerocool Shark = ~$15 (x9 ~$135, x21 ~$315), Noiseblocker = ~$20 (x9 ~$180, x21 ~$420)
RESERVOIR: Swiftech MCRES-MICRO Rev2 Reservoir = ~$30 or FrozenQ Liquid Helix T-Virus = ~$90
TUBING: Primochill LRT 1/2" ID 3/4" OD = ~$17 for 10ft)
FITTINGS: let's say about $50
CPU WATERBLOCK: EK Supreme HF Full Nickel = ~$80 or Aqua Computer Cuplex Kryos HF (as suggested by Skinneelabs) = ~$90
GPU WATERBLOCK: EVGA GTX580 Hydro Copper 2 (pre-affixed & tested waterblock) = ~$710
WATER: Distilled water, can get it anywhere
BIOCIDE: PT Nuke = ~$4
THERMAL COMPOUND: Indigo Xtreme Engineered Thermal Interface (ETI) Kit = ~$20
POWER SUPPLY: already bought it - it's a Corsair AX1200
SSD: Crucial 128GB = ~$200
STORAGE DRIVE: anything >2TB = ~$70
CPU: Intel i7 2700k = ~$330
MOTHERBOARD: ??? = ~$200

So, if I go with the cheapest options that's ~$2,492 ... and with the most luxurious ~$2,784!

Also, I noticed on your signature, Tsumi, that you had the NZXT Sentry-2 5.25" Touch Screen fan controller for around $25. It looks pretty sweet - how is it?

rcashier · Oct 25, 2011

Rickswan said:
Ohh duh, he meant the successor. For some reason I was thinking he meant new boards and processors would be made under the 1366 name don't know why I thought that.

Okay, so here's my build plans so far:

CASE: Mountain Mods U2UFO = ~$350

PUMP: MCP655 = ~$80 - if running a "dual top" like this guy, ~$160

RADIATOR: MO-RA3 9 x 140mm PRO Extreme Radiator= ~$230 OR x2 Black Ice GTX 360 Xtreme = ~$120 ($240 for 2)

FANS: 3 for the case, and either 6 for 2 normal radiators, or 18 (possible) for the Mo-Ra 3 Pro, so: for cheapness, Yate Loons 140mm = ~$12 (x9 ~$108, x21 ~$252) - for silence/performance, Aerocool Shark = ~$15 (x9 ~$135, x21 ~$315), Noiseblocker = ~$20 (x9 ~$180, x21 ~$420)

RESERVOIR: Swiftech MCRES-MICRO Rev2 Reservoir = ~$30 or FrozenQ Liquid Helix T-Virus = ~$90

TUBING: Primochill LRT 1/2" ID 3/4" OD = ~$17 for 10ft)

FITTINGS: let's say about $50

CPU WATERBLOCK: EK Supreme HF Full Nickel = ~$80 or Aqua Computer Cuplex Kryos HF (as suggested by Skinneelabs) = ~$90

GPU WATERBLOCK: EVGA GTX580 Hydro Copper 2 (pre-affixed & tested waterblock) = ~$710

WATER: Distilled water, can get it anywhere

BIOCIDE: PT Nuke = ~$4

THERMAL COMPOUND: Indigo Xtreme Engineered Thermal Interface (ETI) Kit = ~$20

POWER SUPPLY: already bought it - it's a Corsair AX1200

SSD: Crucial 128GB = ~$200

STORAGE DRIVE: anything >2TB = ~$70

CPU: Intel i7 2700k = ~$330

MOTHERBOARD: ??? = ~$200

So, if I go with the cheapest options that's ~$2,492 ... and with the most luxurious ~$2,784!

Also, I noticed on your signature, Tsumi, that you had the NZXT Sentry-2 5.25" Touch Screen fan controller for around $25. It looks pretty sweet - how is it?

I have that controller. It's not bad, I had one of my fan leads stop reporting though. You can still control it though. I need to buy another controller.

Tsumi · Oct 25, 2011

With the Mo-Ra Pro 3, I highly doubt you would need 18 fans. Just go with 9, and add more if you feel like you need it.

The Yate Loon 140mm fans are about $7 each, not $12. And remember you can't use the 140mm fans on your case, you would need 120mm fans (unless your case has 140mm mounting).

I prefer using a silver killcoil over a PT Nuke, but that's just personal preference.

Why don't you splurge a bit more and get this? Heck, you probably wouldn't even want to use it.

The fan controller is pretty nice, I've had it for almost two years now and it's worked perfectly. Frequent power cycles do cause it to be reset, but otherwise it retains its settings just fine. 10 watts per channel means you can only put ~3 fans per channel at most, so with 5 channels that's about 15 fans. The beeping is annoying, but it can be turned off, so it's a non-issue. It has temperature sensors which are fairly accurate, and you can set it for automatic mode. I personally have never used automatic mode, I prefer manual control. It allows a wider range and more precision than the LCD setup. I would have gotten a knob style (I prefer analog), but the case door on my Cosmos 1000 prevents me from using such a design. Since the Aerocool Mesh was introduced, however, I've been looking to get that.

Also, since the Sentry 2 is an LCD design and only occupies the front part of the bay, I'm able to put it at the top-most bay, where anything else would be blocked by my radiator.

vengence · Oct 25, 2011

Rickswan said:
Ohh duh, he meant the successor. For some reason I was thinking he meant new boards and processors would be made under the 1366 name don't know why I thought that.

Yeah, I was tired and 2011 didnt' come to me quick. In any case, my huble opinions listed below:

Okay, so here's my build plans so far:
CASE: Mountain Mods U2UFO = ~$350 It's a really nice case. I'd consider an 800D If it were me and save about 150$ here.
PUMP: MCP655 = ~$80 - if running a "dual top" like this guy, ~$160
RADIATOR: MO-RA3 9 x 140mm PRO Extreme Radiator= ~$230 OR x2 Black Ice GTX 360 Xtreme = ~$120 ($240 for 2) Case choice will drive this.
FANS: 3 for the case, and either 6 for 2 normal radiators, or 18 (possible) for the Mo-Ra 3 Pro, so: for cheapness, Yate Loons 140mm = ~$12 (x9 ~$108, x21 ~$252) - for silence/performance, Aerocool Shark = ~$15 (x9 ~$135, x21 ~$315), Noiseblocker = ~$20 (x9 ~$180, x21 ~$420) That's a lot of money on fans. 420$ is a hellacious amount of money on fans. I'd start with less and see if you really need them. IMHO you're over doing the cooling on this thing.
RESERVOIR: Swiftech MCRES-MICRO Rev2 Reservoir = ~$30 or FrozenQ Liquid Helix T-Virus = ~$90
TUBING: Primochill LRT 1/2" ID 3/4" OD = ~$17 for 10ft)
FITTINGS: let's say about $50
CPU WATERBLOCK: EK Supreme HF Full Nickel = ~$80 or Aqua Computer Cuplex Kryos HF (as suggested by Skinneelabs) = ~$90
GPU WATERBLOCK: EVGA GTX580 Hydro Copper 2 (pre-affixed & tested waterblock) = ~$710 That's per GPU, correct?
WATER: Distilled water, can get it anywhere
BIOCIDE: PT Nuke = ~$4
THERMAL COMPOUND: Indigo Xtreme Engineered Thermal Interface (ETI) Kit = ~$20
POWER SUPPLY: already bought it - it's a Corsair AX1200
SSD: Crucial 128GB = ~$200 You're spending upto 400$ on fans and "skimping" on a 200$SSD. First I'd switch this to an Intel 320 at least, and from there I'd up the size given your budget. I went with a 160GB on a build that was half the cost of this system.
STORAGE DRIVE: anything >2TB = ~$70
CPU: Intel i7 2700k = ~$330 If you live near a micro center, you can get a Asus P8Z68-V Pro and a 2600k for 400$.
MOTHERBOARD: ??? = ~$200

You're build consists of 1731$ of case and cooling components, and 1220$ worth of electronics.

Too each thier own, and if that's what you want to build, then go for it. It's by far your money.

On the other hand, for the 3K you could buy this:
2600k+mobo 400$
GTX 580 x2 (Gigabit 3x super fan cooler) = 430x2=860
Intel 320 160GB SSD = 300
Storage 2TB = 70$
Ram (not listed above) 8GB Corsair 1600 Cas 9 = 40$
Case of choice = 200$
3x 24" monitors = 900$ (or 30" monitor your choice)
Video games = 230$.

magoo · Oct 25, 2011

Wow, you are building qiute a computer there.

Just two cents.

before you buy, seriously take your design to realredraider.com and let the guys there give you some advice.
Those guys eat,sleep and drink watercooling, honestly.

Is there a reason you want a Mo-Ra.....I mean holy shit, those things are enormous and must live outside the case.
The Mountain Mods case gives so much opportunity to build within......and honestly the Mo-Ra is overkill.
Buy a couple swiftech 120.3s and be done.....cheap and efficient, not sexy but really, they're radiators.

There is no truth to the concept that compression fitting "come loose" after a time.
I've had my computer pretty much the same for two + years and have never had one problem...that and I have been watercooling with compressions for over 8 years now in one fashion or another...and I change water and tubing every year. just buy good ones.....I recommend BitsPower......only downside, they are pricy, but infinately reuseable. I have reused my fittings over and over.

Coolant, use distilled water and a couple I&H killcoils, thats all you need.

The micro-res is a great choice unless you want something for show and tell.

MCP 655 all the way. If you don't want to worry about the standard front on the 655, buy this http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/bid5modtop.html it screws on to the pump and allows you to use standard G1/4 fittings (whether you choose barbs or compressions) and the tubing size of your choice.

tangoseal · Oct 25, 2011

One recommendation .......

Caselabs.net

Not trolling or advertising but my SR3 dual socket is going in one. Im about to order it as soon as I see the benches on the 6 core SDB E's first.

Rickswan · Oct 28, 2011

Tsumi said:
With the Mo-Ra Pro 3, I highly doubt you would need 18 fans. Just go with 9, and add more if you feel like you need it.

You're right, a full 18 right off the bat would be bonkers.

The Yate Loon 140mm fans are about $7 each, not $12. And remember you can't use the 140mm fans on your case, you would need 120mm fans (unless your case has 140mm mounting).

Gotcha. I wonder if the noise difference between those and the higher-end ones is negligible or not.

I prefer using a silver killcoil over a PT Nuke, but that's just personal preference.

Like [this] guy. Do you prefer placing it in the tubing or the reservoir? [this] faq has a lot of nice (and scientific) things to say about silver.

Why don't you splurge a bit more and get this? Heck, you probably wouldn't even want to use it.

Wow! It's like three times the price, but it's almost pure silver

! From that same faq is this quote: "Another method that will stop galvanic corrosion is to plate the more noble metal in something that is nonreactive. Nickel, chromium, gold, silver and platinum are all viable choices, and as they will not readily ionize, they will not allow the reaction to start." (see, I do my homework)

The fan controller is pretty nice, I've had it for almost two years now and it's worked perfectly. Frequent power cycles do cause it to be reset, but otherwise it retains its settings just fine. 10 watts per channel means you can only put ~3 fans per channel at most, so with 5 channels that's about 15 fans.

Huh? How does that work - putting multiple fans on one channel?

The beeping is annoying, but it can be turned off, so it's a non-issue. It has temperature sensors which are fairly accurate, and you can set it for automatic mode. I personally have never used automatic mode, I prefer manual control. It allows a wider range and more precision than the LCD setup. I would have gotten a knob style (I prefer analog), but the case door on my Cosmos 1000 prevents me from using such a design. Since the Aerocool Mesh was introduced, however, I've been looking to get that.

Also, since the Sentry 2 is an LCD design and only occupies the front part of the bay, I'm able to put it at the top-most bay, where anything else would be blocked by my radiator.

rcashier said:
I have that controller. It's not bad, I had one of my fan leads stop reporting though. You can still control it though. I need to buy another controller.

Hmm, perhaps it's a better idea to stick with analog knobs then. Is there a program that would be able to display the same information as the Sentry 2 if I got a screen-less controller?

vengence said:
You're build consists of 1731$ of case and cooling components, and 1220$ worth of electronics. Too each thier own, and if that's what you want to build, then go for it. It's by far your money.

On the other hand, for the 3K you could buy this:
2600k+mobo 400$
GTX 580 x2 (Gigabit 3x super fan cooler) = 430x2=860
Intel 320 160GB SSD = 300
Storage 2TB = 70$
Ram (not listed above) 8GB Corsair 1600 Cas 9 = 40$
Case of choice = 200$
3x 24" monitors = 900$ (or 30" monitor your choice)
Video games = 230$.

I'm partial to the U2UFO. The 800D you suggested looks nice, but after looking up on Caselabs' stuff (suggested by tangoseal), they are the closest contender for the case at this moment. You're right about the cost of the fans being hellacious - that was just the most expensive scenario. About the GPU, I'm currently only going to purchase one, but I want to be well-covered if I decide to get another. Your bit on the SSD has convinced me to upgrade to [this] SSD. That 2600k bundle sounds nice, but I recently found this one that looks quite tempting. I want to max out the memory, so an an LGA1155 that's 16GB - I currently have my eye on the Corsair Vengeance Blue 16 GB DDR3 SDRAM. Also, perhaps I should have mentioned, but my current monitor is a 40" 120hz Sony Bravia HDTV

so I'm set as far as that goes

tangoseal said:
One recommendation .......

Caselabs.net

Not trolling or advertising but my SR3 dual socket is going in one. Im about to order it as soon as I see the benches on the 6 core SDB E's first.

Dude, you suck! After watching [this] video, I'm now torn between this very sexy looking case by Caselabs and my original pick of the U2UFO

.

magoo said:
Wow, you are building qiute a computer there.

Just two cents.

before you buy, seriously take your design to realredraider.com and let the guys there give you some advice.
Those guys eat,sleep and drink watercooling, honestly.

I took your suggestion and signed up. I took the cue from [this] sticky and downloaded Google Sketchup. Then, I made [this] < that's a 3D to-scale model with the real-world dimensions of the U2UFO, U2UFO Extended, and Caselabs M8 case, along with some water cooling equipment in the U2UFO's showing a rough idea where I plan to place them. The fancy-looking parts are from http://scc.jezmckean.com/home. I haven't yet made a thread on realredraider.com, but I've read all the stickies. I'll be sure to make one soon.

Is there a reason you want a Mo-Ra.....I mean holy shit, those things are enormous and must live outside the case. The Mountain Mods case gives so much opportunity to build within......and honestly the Mo-Ra is overkill. Buy a couple swiftech 120.3s and be done.....cheap and efficient, not sexy but really, they're radiators.

The only problem I have with that is, using sketchup, it appears as though the space becomes very cramped or that they would overlap each other if both mounted internally - and I honestly don't know how to mount them externally. Although I currently don't know how the huge radiators are mounted either (In addition to the Mo-Ra's there is the Phobya XTREME Super Nova 1260, highly recommended from this guy). Would there need to be as many cutout holes in the case as there are fans on the radiator?

There is no truth to the concept that compression fitting "come loose" after a time.
I've had my computer pretty much the same for two + years and have never had one problem...that and I have been watercooling with compressions for over 8 years now in one fashion or another...and I change water and tubing every year. just buy good ones.....I recommend BitsPower......only downside, they are pricy, but infinately reuseable. I have reused my fittings over and over.

I see, good to know

Coolant, use distilled water and a couple I&H killcoils, thats all you need.

So that's two now that recommend silver coils over PT Nuke... hmmm...

The micro-res is a great choice unless you want something for show and tell.

It's a tough choice: get something tried & true and cheap, or something that's $60 more but looks absolutely bìtchin'

MCP 655 all the way. If you don't want to worry about the standard front on the 655, buy this http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/bid5modtop.html it screws on to the pump and allows you to use standard G1/4 fittings (whether you choose barbs or compressions) and the tubing size of your choice.

Sweet

do you recommend a dual top though? Or is that only necessary if I get one of those monster radiators (with 9 fans)?

ANYWAY, so as I mentioned I created a 3D model of the cases and watercooling I'm looking at with real-world measurements using Google Sketchup.

I also took a few snapshots, [here]. The titles are explanatory and some have descriptions describing what the picture is of, as well as my confusion as to some aspects of the build.

dcds1 · Oct 28, 2011

Just a insight on mounting your radiators. If you mount a 360 radiator on the bottom mount in the front, you will not be able to mount a radiator on the side in the first fan hole. A XSPC RX360 leaves only about an inch on each side of the radiator when mounted in the case. The XSPC RX360 is about 2.5 inches thick and then depending on what fans are used also adds to how much it covers the first fan whole on the side. I know you are not planning on using the XSPC RX360 but that is what was in my case so I know how it fits in there.

Tsumi · Oct 28, 2011

Dual tops are necessary for high restriction systems. Multiple radiators and one large radiator can create high restriction, as well as high restriction blocks and multiple blocks, although I'm fairly sure that the large radiator will be less restrictive overall than multiple radiators.

I recommend killcoils because you can just drop it in your reservoir and forget about it. Whereas with PT Nuke, you need to remember to add it each time you change out the water.

The Mo-Ra Pro and other such large radiators usually come with a radiator stand, where you would just leave it standing externally. Then, you would run tubing from the computer to the radiator and back.

I think there are several fan controllers that do what you're looking for. Honestly, the NZXT Sentry 2 doesn't display all that information. All it displays is temperature sensors and voltage %. Other fan controllers will give you the RPM of the fans also. I think you might want to look at Lamptron fan controllers, or maybe Sunbeam.

Multiple fans on one channel is accomplished simply by wiring the positives together and the negatives together. Or, a more elegant way of doing that would be to get several fan splitter cables.

Noise difference between high-end and low-end fans only really become apparent at higher RPM speeds (above 1500). With a Mo Ra Pro and your system as it is right now, it can easily cool your system while keeping the RPM below 1000.

Rickswan · Oct 29, 2011

dcds1 said:
Just a insight on mounting your radiators. If you mount a 360 radiator on the bottom mount in the front, you will not be able to mount a radiator on the side in the first fan hole. A XSPC RX360 leaves only about an inch on each side of the radiator when mounted in the case. The XSPC RX360 is about 2.5 inches thick and then depending on what fans are used also adds to how much it covers the first fan whole on the side. I know you are not planning on using the XSPC RX360 but that is what was in my case so I know how it fits in there.

... huh?

magoo said:
Wow, you are building qiute a computer there. Just two cents. before you buy, seriously take your design to realredraider.com and let the guys there give you some advice. Those guys eat,sleep and drink watercooling, honestly.

Check it

Tsumi said:
Dual tops are necessary for high restriction systems. Multiple radiators and one large radiator can create high restriction, as well as high restriction blocks and multiple blocks, although I'm fairly sure that the large radiator will be less restrictive overall than multiple radiators.

Ah I see. I better get 2 just in case.

I recommend killcoils because you can just drop it in your reservoir and forget about it. Whereas with PT Nuke, you need to remember to add it each time you change out the water.

That sounds way more convenient - silver coils it is!

The Mo-Ra Pro and other such large radiators usually come with a radiator stand, where you would just leave it standing externally. Then, you would run tubing from the computer to the radiator and back.

In all honesty, I don't know what I want to do anymore - I know I want more than one radiator (or the power of more than one) regardless. After seeing this video, Caselabs' M8 case is awfully tempting.

I think there are several fan controllers that do what you're looking for. Honestly, the NZXT Sentry 2 doesn't display all that information. All it displays is temperature sensors and voltage %. Other fan controllers will give you the RPM of the fans also. I think you might want to look at Lamptron fan controllers, or maybe Sunbeam.

Multiple fans on one channel is accomplished simply by wiring the positives together and the negatives together. Or, a more elegant way of doing that would be to get several fan splitter cables.

Fan Splitter cables? Like [this]? I checked out those controllers you suggested and just got done watching [this] video - I'm still wondering however, with analog knobs like this and no display, can't you just see the fan speeds & temps & whatnot in a program like Speedfan?

Noise difference between high-end and low-end fans only really become apparent at higher RPM speeds (above 1500). With a Mo Ra Pro and your system as it is right now, it can easily cool your system while keeping the RPM below 1000.

If that's the case, maybe I can safely just stick with those Yate Loons you suggested!

Tsumi · Oct 29, 2011

You should look at getting the TJ11, I think that is one sweet looking case, and I would definitely get it if I could. Although it doesn't have the hugeness factor that the other cases you're looking at have (still a huge case, but not like the caselabs or mountain mods).

Those are the splitter cables I am talking about.

With analog knobs and no display, you cannot see the fan speeds unless you have a splitter that routes the RPM cable to a header on the motherboard. You would also be limited to the motherboard/graphics card internal temp sensors, whereas the fan controllers have an external temp sensor which you can place anywhere.

This is probably more of what you're looking for. 12 watts a channel with 6 channels, slightly better than my 10 watts a channel with 5 channels. Also displays RPM and has 6 temperature probes.

This is an external unit, but limited to 10 watts a channel with 5 channels.

Rickswan · Oct 30, 2011

Tsumi said:
You should look at getting the TJ11, I think that is one sweet looking case, and I would definitely get it if I could. Although it doesn't have the hugeness factor that the other cases you're looking at have (still a huge case, but not like the caselabs or mountain mods).

Those are the splitter cables I am talking about.

With analog knobs and no display, you cannot see the fan speeds unless you have a splitter that routes the RPM cable to a header on the motherboard. You would also be limited to the motherboard/graphics card internal temp sensors, whereas the fan controllers have an external temp sensor which you can place anywhere.

This is probably more of what you're looking for. 12 watts a channel with 6 channels, slightly better than my 10 watts a channel with 5 channels. Also displays RPM and has 6 temperature probes.

This is an external unit, but limited to 10 watts a channel with 5 channels.

I believe that Sunbeamtech one had such splitters to route it to the motherboard. Those are some nice looking fan controllers (and case)! The kaze looks nice. I really like how the Caselabs cases look though - that industrial feel. Anyway, I was wondering how fast fans usually go without a fan controller, and saw on this page that: "Fans normally run at 100% speed, which is noisy and unnecessary. In any case the fan speed should be varied according to temperature. Fans running at 100% will draw unnecessary power."

You answered my question about hooking up multiple fans to one analog knob (splitter cables) but I was also wondering, can you hook up a radiator to a fan controller? looks like it's the same answer - splitter cables. So, basically what you're saying is, splitter cables rock.

Tsumi · Oct 30, 2011

Fans on radiators are just regular case fans, not too sure what you're asking there. Depending on how far your radiator is from the fan controller, you might need extensions.

Fans usually run at full speed. What fan controllers (and motherboards) do is reduce the voltage going to the fans. If fans are hooked up directly to the power supply, they get the full 12v. A fan controller can vary the voltage anywhere from approximately 3v (25% speed, if it's able to keep spinning) to the full 12v (100% speed). My particular fan controller does it in steps of 10%, from 40% to 100%. Analog ones have the full range available.

Rickswan · Nov 1, 2011

Tsumi said:
Fans on radiators are just regular case fans, not too sure what you're asking there. Depending on how far your radiator is from the fan controller, you might need extensions.

Fans usually run at full speed. What fan controllers (and motherboards) do is reduce the voltage going to the fans. If fans are hooked up directly to the power supply, they get the full 12v. A fan controller can vary the voltage anywhere from approximately 3v (25% speed, if it's able to keep spinning) to the full 12v (100% speed). My particular fan controller does it in steps of 10%, from 40% to 100%. Analog ones have the full range available.

I think if (or, rather, when) I decide to get a fan controller, I'll get an analog one. Anyway, I've been posting on Realredraider and have since updated my specs. Those guys are nuts on Water Cooling, as Magoo said.

I think I actually need some advice about the graphics card. I've been waiting for the GTX 580 Classified Hydro Copper to come in, but it's been out of stock for quite a while now. Looking at the stats, I'm having trouble telling what the big difference is between the 580 Classified Hydro and the GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2. I suppose I could also get a 580 that doesn't already have a waterblock attached and get it separate from here. As for the 590, I'm not entirely opposed to the idea...

So as of right now, here's what I'm tentatively planning for the rig, minus the GPU:

Caselabs M10
17 2700k + ASUS Sabertooth P67 B3 TUF Edition bundle
2 MCP655's (I plan to connect them just via tubing, if that's ok)
2-3 360 radiators (this one's suggested by pOPe on RRR)
16GB Corsair Dominator RAM
A 256GB Crucial SSD & 2TB HDD
Indigo Xtreme Engineered Thermal Interface (ETI) Kit
Distilled Water & a silver killcoil
This waterblock for the CPU (because Drewsillac says RedRaider endorses it)
Bitspower fittings if I go for compression
3/8" ID x 5/8" OD tubing
StealthRes 275 Multi-Option Reservoir
some brand of fans - I've heard Gentle Typhoons, Yate Loons, Noiseblockers, Aerocool, Coolermaster, etc.

blazarcher · Nov 1, 2011

WOW man that is gonna be one hell of a build but i have some thoughts.

Why go with the Heatkiller CPU block? The EK Supreme HF is the best one out right now or you can get a XSPC Rasa for half the price with better performance than the Heatkiller (or PM me I'm selling one for cheap). For the radiator, why not go with the XSPC RX Series? They are better performers.
For the motherboard I'd go with Gigabyte P67 UD7, just check out the reviews it's one of the best LGA 1155 motherboards out in the market right now. The Sabertooth isn't bad either. Anyways I'm not too familiar with the case but couldn't you fit some 480mm radiators instead? For tubing I'd go with bigger 1/2" ID 3/4" OD, it's a big case so you don't want your tubing to look small.

For Fans, Definitely go with Gentle Typhoons if you have the money (looks like you do), Yate Loons are also amazing for the price but make sure to get them from Petras'. Don't go with Aerocool or Coolermaster though, you are looking for fans that perform the best ON radiators and that's where the Yate Loons/Gentle Typhoons come in.

Rickswan · Nov 1, 2011

blazarcher said:
WOW man that is gonna be one hell of a build but i have some thoughts.

Why go with the Heatkiller CPU block? The EK Supreme HF is the best one out right now or you can get a XSPC Rasa for half the price with better performance than the Heatkiller (or PM me I'm selling one for cheap). For the radiator, why not go with the XSPC RX Series? They are better performers.

Thanks dude! Funny story: I was gunning to get the EK Supreme HF, but they don't seem to like EK over there on Realredraider. I haven't heard about the Rasa yet, I need a second opinion on that one. Waterblocks are one of the parts everyone seems to disagree on...

For the motherboard I'd go with Gigabyte P67 UD7, just check out the reviews it's one of the best LGA 1155 motherboards out in the market right now. The Sabertooth isn't bad either. Anyways I'm not too familiar with the case but couldn't you fit some 480mm radiators instead? For tubing I'd go with bigger 1/2" ID 3/4" OD, it's a big case so you don't want your tubing to look small.

I was also looking to get 1/2" tubing before I went over there! I'm partial to that size for some reason. The only reason I currently chose the Sabertooth is because A) it's part of a bundle with the i7 2700k for only $560, and B) because after Ivy Bridge comes out, I may just be upgrading anyhow. Of the three cases I'm looking at now - the Caselabs M8, M10, and MH10, only the MH10 is capable of holding a quad radiator - but thanks for asking, because I didn't know that beforehand

For Fans, Definitely go with Gentle Typhoons if you have the money (looks like you do), Yate Loons are also amazing for the price but make sure to get them from Petras'. Don't go with Aerocool or Coolermaster though, you are looking for fans that perform the best ON radiators and that's where the Yate Loons/Gentle Typhoons come in.

Thanks, that helps. I see big ups for Gentle Typhoons (and Loons as well), so they're looking the best at this moment

Tsumi · Nov 1, 2011

That's a good mid-range radiator. For the price, it's definitely a better value than a Black Ice GTX radiator.

The GTX 580 Hydro 2 is the second revision of the original Hydro, which had 1.5gb RAM vs the 3gb RAM of the Hydro 2. The Classified Hydro is a much bigger card, as you can see in the pictures. It sports higher end power circuitry for better overclocking. And a custom waterblock specifically designed for the Classified (vs the generic block that fits pretty much any 580). The Classified also has their special EVbot connection.

The XSPC Rasa block is a good no frills block. Basic and sorta plain looking, it has very high performance (among top 5 blocks cooling-wise, and best flow rates out of any top block). I would look at the Ray Storm, the successor to the Rasa.

3/8" ID 5/8" OD has a better turning radius than 1/2" ID 3/4" OD. If that's not really a concern, go for the larger tubing.

Rickswan · Nov 1, 2011

Tsumi said:
That's a good mid-range radiator. For the price, it's definitely a better value than a Black Ice GTX radiator.

That's good to hear! I love hearing more than one source vouch for the same thing

The GTX 580 Hydro 2 is the second revision of the original Hydro, which had 1.5gb RAM vs the 3gb RAM of the Hydro 2. The Classified Hydro is a much bigger card, as you can see in the pictures. It sports higher end power circuitry for better overclocking. And a custom waterblock specifically designed for the Classified (vs the generic block that fits pretty much any 580). The Classified also has their special EVbot connection.

Thanks, you're the first person to give a detailed explanation of what separates the two cards. Unfortunately, it's been bugging me because the 580 Classified Hydro has been out of stock for a pretty long time now. Right now, I'm considering just getting the 580 Hydro Copper 2 and overclocking it, or even possibly getting the 590 Hydro Copper Classified - but that's an extra $200 of course...

The XSPC Rasa block is a good no frills block. Basic and sorta plain looking, it has very high performance (among top 5 blocks cooling-wise, and best flow rates out of any top block). I would look at the Ray Storm, the successor to the Rasa.

So would you say the Ray Storm has the same perks as the Rasa, but probably better since it's the successor?

3/8" ID 5/8" OD has a better turning radius than 1/2" ID 3/4" OD. If that's not really a concern, go for the larger tubing.

Thanks Tsumi

I was wondering what the big difference would be

Tsumi · Nov 1, 2011

Search for the CPU block roundup in this forum. It compares pretty much all of the top waterblocks, and the Rasa I believe took 2nd or 3rd place. Keep in mind that roundup is about a year or two old, but still relevant. The Rasa was also much cheaper than the other offerings, having a retail price of about $50 while all the other top blocks averaged $80. And it had the 2nd highest flow rate, beat out by the D-tek Fuzion V2. It just doesn't look as fancy, although the Ray Storm seems to have improved on its looks quite a bit. It is probably better since it is the successor to the Rasa.

I'm not sure, but when I just checked, the Classified Hydro Copper is in stock, while the Hydro Copper 2 is out of stock. The Classified Hydro Copper looks to be better than the Hydro Copper 2 anyways.

I wouldn't bother with the 590 unless you can get a 6gb version (3gb per GPU).

Rickswan · Nov 1, 2011

Tsumi said:
Search for the CPU block roundup in this forum. It compares pretty much all of the top waterblocks, and the Rasa I believe took 2nd or 3rd place. Keep in mind that roundup is about a year or two old, but still relevant. The Rasa was also much cheaper than the other offerings, having a retail price of about $50 while all the other top blocks averaged $80. And it had the 2nd highest flow rate, beat out by the D-tek Fuzion V2. It just doesn't look as fancy, although the Ray Storm seems to have improved on its looks quite a bit. It is probably better since it is the successor to the Rasa.

I just did as you suggested and looked up this forum's CPU roundup - here's a quote from the conclusion: "...So it's not very surprising, that the block that was performing best before, got overtaken by other contestants, as the Heatkiller's been around for some time. I was surprised by the good results of the XSPC Rasa, as it's predecessor didn't perform well at all. The EK HF Supreme's metal top showed some strength and helped it to offer the best cooling performance." So it looks like the EK HF Full-Nickel did the best, with the Rasa behind by just a smidgen [pic]. The Heatkiller was right up there, too. So, like you said, the Rasa (Well the Ray Storm now) seems like the best mix of cheapness and performance.

I'm not sure, but when I just checked, the Classified Hydro Copper is in stock, while the Hydro Copper 2 is out of stock. The Classified Hydro Copper looks to be better than the Hydro Copper 2 anyways.

WHERE!? Are you sure you're talking about part number 03G-P3-1593-AR?

I wouldn't bother with the 590 unless you can get a 6gb version (3gb per GPU).

Why is that?

Tsumi · Nov 1, 2011

Wow, that was fast, it already went out of stock. It was in stock at the EVGA website when I posted it, and now it's out. Check out the links you posted, there's an option to notify you when it comes in stock... EVGA does sell cards directly from their website. And yes I was talking about the 1593.

3gb bottlenecks the 580 at high resolutions and high AA (mostly applicable with nvSurround in SLI). The 2gb 6950s are able to outperform 1.5gb GTX 580s at high resolutions and high AA, not to mention the 6970s.

Rickswan · Nov 2, 2011

Tsumi said:
Wow, that was fast, it already went out of stock. It was in stock at the EVGA website when I posted it, and now it's out. Check out the links you posted, there's an option to notify you when it comes in stock... EVGA does sell cards directly from their website. And yes I was talking about the 1593.

I totally signed up for the notification.

3gb bottlenecks the 580 at high resolutions and high AA (mostly applicable with nvSurround in SLI). The 2gb 6950s are able to outperform 1.5gb GTX 580s at high resolutions and high AA, not to mention the 6970s.

Are you saying you recommend the 6950 & 6970? Or just that I shouldn't bother with the 590 because the 580 & 590 both have 3GB, so I'd get more out of a 580? And what does the 3GB mean, anyway - 3GB's of memory capacity?

Anyhow, it looks like it's that time again - let's see where I'm standing
BUDGET UPDATE:
(NOTE: I round up high)

Caselabs M10 = ~$445
17 2700k + ASUS Sabertooth P67 B3 TUF Edition bundle = ~$560
2 MCP655's = ~$93 (x2 = ~$186)
XSPC EX360 Triple 120mm Radiator = ~$57 per, so x3 = ~$171
16GB Corsair Dominator RAM = ~$160
A 256GB Crucial SSD = ~$380
WD Caviar Green 2 TB Internal hard drive 600 MBps = ~$145
Indigo Xtreme Engineered Thermal Interface (ETI) Kit = ~$25
Distilled Water = like $2
a silver killcoil = ~$5
Aqua Computer Cuplex Kryos HF = ~$85 or Watercool HEATKILLER® CPU Rev3.0 = ~$80 (so let's just say $85)
Bitspower fittings if I go for compression = ~$30 or so
1/2" or 3/8" ID x 5/8" OD tubing (whatevs) = ~$20
StealthRes 275 Multi-Option Reservoir = ~$55
Gentle Typhoon fans = ~$17, so around 9 = ~$153

And the wildcard here is the GPU, because as of this moment I don't know if I'll go for the GTX 580 Hydro Copper 2 (~$710) or the GTX 590 Classified Hydro Copper (~$890) although signs are still pointing to the 580 due to them both being 3GB

So ignoring the GPU (and the PSU, which I already bought) that comes out to $2,422. With the 580 option, it's $3,132 and with the 590 option it's $3,312! (And if you're curious, the PSU I got was the AX1200 for about $192)

Tsumi · Nov 2, 2011

The GTX 590 is a dual GPU card. That means each GPU gets 1.5gb (it doesn't add up, that's just a marketing feature).

I'm not saying I recommend the 6950 or 6970. I'm saying I would recommend the 6950 or 6970 2gb over a GTX 580 1.5 gb. A GTX 580 3gb is clearly superior to a 6970.

Okay, let me get a bit technical here. Since you're using a regular 1080P TV, this doesn't really apply to you, and a GTX 590 (actually, I would recommend a 6990) would be superior to a GTX 580. Anyways, so what happens is that a graphics card renders out a frame, and it stores it inside the memory buffer before sending it out to the screen. What happens with a GTX 580 in nvSurround (5760x1080 resolution for 1080P monitors) and high AA, the picture rendered is too large to be stored in the buffer. So it needs to compress it, then render the rest, and compress it to match the first part before it can send it out to the screens. And that has a huge performance impact. Higher resolution + higher AA = more memory required.

Rickswan · Nov 2, 2011

Tsumi said:
The GTX 590 is a dual GPU card. That means each GPU gets 1.5gb (it doesn't add up, that's just a marketing feature).

I'm not saying I recommend the 6950 or 6970. I'm saying I would recommend the 6950 or 6970 2gb over a GTX 580 1.5 gb. A GTX 580 3gb is clearly superior to a 6970.

Okay, let me get a bit technical here. Since you're using a regular 1080P TV, this doesn't really apply to you, and a GTX 590 (actually, I would recommend a 6990) would be superior to a GTX 580. Anyways, so what happens is that a graphics card renders out a frame, and it stores it inside the memory buffer before sending it out to the screen. What happens with a GTX 580 in nvSurround (5760x1080 resolution for 1080P monitors) and high AA, the picture rendered is too large to be stored in the buffer. So it needs to compress it, then render the rest, and compress it to match the first part before it can send it out to the screens. And that has a huge performance impact. Higher resolution + higher AA = more memory required.

Like I need more options! So the 6990 > 590. Would an AMD card play nicely with an i7, like [this] suggests? Would you recommend [this] waterblock if I get a 6990?

Anyway, as you were saying, my 1080p TV's higher resolution would necessitate higher Anti-Aliasing, which would mean more to render, therefore worse performance? That sucks. Guess I'll just have to get a card that can handle it

tangoseal · Nov 2, 2011

655/Laing D5/MCP35X those are the only pumps I would ever choose at this point. In fact this PC is running on a MCP655, it has been in like 5 PC's lol has pumped literally metric tons of fluid over its life so far and still runs at a solid 4500'ish RPM 24/7.

My MCP35X is too new to really know how long it will last but that is way stronger of a flow rate than my 655 but the 655 is better for serial connections since it has a higher head pressure. The MCP35X can push liquid alot faster though.

Rickswan · Nov 2, 2011

tangoseal said:
655/Laing D5/MCP35X those are the only pumps I would ever choose at this point. In fact this PC is running on a MCP655, it has been in like 5 PC's lol has pumped literally metric tons of fluid over its life so far and still runs at a solid 4500'ish RPM 24/7. My MCP35X is too new to really know how long it will last but that is way stronger of a flow rate than my 655 but the 655 is better for serial connections since it has a higher head pressure. The MCP35X can push liquid alot faster though.

That's good to know, thanks! I'm fairly positive I'm going to get 2 655's

Tsumi · Nov 2, 2011

There is absolutely no reason why the 6990 won't run on an i7. It's not like Intel makes graphics cards that compete with AMD. Nor does AMD limit nVidia graphics card power on their processor platforms.

Optimus is a nifty little feature that has not even made it onto desktops yet, and I believe has only just been started being implemented in laptops. Therefore, it's irrelevant to even think about it. Optimus is not a performance boost, it's a power saving feature. What it does, in theory, is physically shut down the discrete GPU when not in use, like web browsing, and run off of the integrated GPU. Then, turn back on the discrete GPU when you're gaming. In theory, it's all supposed to happen seamlessly.

I think tangoseal has it backwards. The 655 has higher flow rates, and is good for parallel systems. The 355 and 35x have high head pressure, which make them good for serial systems.

Rickswan · Nov 3, 2011

Tsumi said:
There is absolutely no reason why the 6990 won't run on an i7. It's not like Intel makes graphics cards that compete with AMD. Nor does AMD limit nVidia graphics card power on their processor platforms.

Optimus is a nifty little feature that has not even made it onto desktops yet, and I believe has only just been started being implemented in laptops. Therefore, it's irrelevant to even think about it. Optimus is not a performance boost, it's a power saving feature. What it does, in theory, is physically shut down the discrete GPU when not in use, like web browsing, and run off of the integrated GPU. Then, turn back on the discrete GPU when you're gaming. In theory, it's all supposed to happen seamlessly.

I think tangoseal has it backwards. The 655 has higher flow rates, and is good for parallel systems. The 355 and 35x have high head pressure, which make them good for serial systems.

I have been hearing lots of talk about two 570's SLI-'d being better than one 590. Of course, I want this to be water cooled, so a whole new issue arises. For a 570, here's what blocks I could find on Sidewinder in order from least to most expensive: Watecool HEATKILLER GPU-X³ NVidia GTX 570 / 580 (~$99) > Watercool HEATKILLER GPU-X³ GTX 570 / 580 Hole Edition - NVidia GTX 570 / 580 (~$103) > Aqua Computer aquagraFX for GTX 580 and GTX 570 (GF110) G1/4 (~$125) > Aqua Computer aquagraFX for GTX 580 and GTX 570 (GF110) G1/4, nickel plated version (~$140) ... I believe the last one is more expensive because it's nickel plated and comes with a backplate. Let's assume I'm getting two eVGA GeForce GTX 570 HD's (or hell, perhaps even 2 580's). Will the above waterblocks cover the whole card, will they fit the card, and what is everything I will need?

Tsumi · Nov 3, 2011

The problem is that the GTX 590 power subsystem is really poor in reference versions, and is barely able to overclock well. The 590 uses two GTX 580 cores, but are severely downclocked. And the 590 is barely able to overclock to 580 levels, which makes it slightly worse than SLI 580's.

The 6990 on the other hand has a good power delivery system. It uses two 6970 cores, downclocked like the 590, but is able to overclock to 6970 levels. And it will overclock to about 90% or so of 6970 levels, and usually it's more thermal limited. Put it on water, and it'll probably overclock like a regular 6970. That's what makes the 6990 better than the 590, even though the 6970 core is only approximately equivalent to the 570 core.

The 570 reference PCB is identical to the 580 PCB, and in fact identical to the 480 PCB. That means blocks designed for the 580 will fit 570 and 480 cards. However, you still run into the RAM problem, 570's only have 1.2gb.

Those blocks probably will not fit the 570 HD. The HD is a non-reference design, so where things are laid out are probably different. There's a chance that it will fit, but there's also a good chance it won't.

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