Win 8 Ditching Start Menu for a Start Screen

because of other improvements in the OS, like claims of being upto %30 faster on netbooks... to think windows 8 is merely a GUI improvements is as bad as the XP freaks who said Vista was only a GUI upgrade.

A. There are no improvements to the OS.
B. I don't own a netbook, and anyone who does will never buy Win8. It'll have to come with it.
C. Win8 merely is a GUI improvement. I mean disappointment.
D. If you believe otherwise then show me benchmarks.

Also, Vista isn't a GUI upgrade of XP. Everybody knows that, but that maybe why Vista was a horrible POS. Why you think people stuck with XP, cause they liked the way it looks? :rolleyes:
 
A. There are no improvements to the OS.

False. It boots faster, uses less memory, has better multi-monitor support, supports cloud based replication of settings, etc. and this isn't even a feature complete release so it's impossible to do a final analysis of all the enhancements at this point anyway.

C. Win8 merely is a GUI improvement. I mean disappointment.

Just a repeat of your first inaccurate claim.

D. If you believe otherwise then show me benchmarks.

Yeah, let's benchmark a pre-beta and draw final conclusions about performance.
 
ugh, I think I will miss this version of windows and stick to w7. Don't mess with the basics M$!!
 
This is really bad. If i can't have my start menu at all then i will only use windows 8 for gaming and nothing else. Will keep linux as my main os. This is a huge mistake. The best interface to me was windows xp & 2000. Everything else is just glitter and glamor. Why can't we have classic options like xp mode or vista mode or windows 7 mode or windows 2000 mode. Have different skins available so we can choose what we like. It makes no sense to just limit the user into one option. I hope microsoft loses billions. ;)
 
I've been using the classic start menu API mod for Windows 7 for some time now. Works wonders. Hopefully there will be an updated version of the mod for Windows 8, as i'll be using that as well.

First the vista start menu, now this... FFS

Same here, I hated the windows 7 start menu so i switched it back to the old fashion xp like start menu with classic shell ;)

http://classicshell.sourceforge.net/
 
This is really bad. If i can't have my start menu at all then i will only use windows 8 for gaming and nothing else. Will keep linux as my main os. This is a huge mistake. The best interface to me was windows xp & 2000. Everything else is just glitter and glamor. Why can't we have classic options like xp mode or vista mode or windows 7 mode or windows 2000 mode. Have different skins available so we can choose what we like. It makes no sense to just limit the user into one option. I hope microsoft loses billions. ;)

Well it's not exactly a final release of Windows 8 now. It looks to me like a tablet OS not a PC OS and that's what this release is for.... to let everyone try it and give their opinions about it. From the little I've used it I think it might be nice for a tablet but for my PC hell no... not even if they gave it out free. They have plenty of time to see how people react to what they've put out and go back to what we want.
 
I stopped using the start menu a long time ago so don't really care. There isn't too much I do outside a browser nowadays.
 
I stopped using the start menu a long time ago so don't really care. There isn't too much I do outside a browser nowadays.

I don't use the start menu much myself either... in XP I used the quick launch... in Windows 7 I use the pinned stuff.... but I hate that start screen you go to instead of the start menu.
 
I'm not for it or against it, I'm for lets wait and see.

Those that argue it's like a tablet, dont understand
the term convergence. I said a while back that in
5 years tablets and computers will look the same.
It's where it's going, get used to it.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/convergence

A good read on this is "Physics of the Future"
by Michio Kaku.

In the book for example, he says that in 10 years
a small wrist device may project on a wall all our
computer needs from cloud computing.
 
Windows 8 is looking like a piece of shit unless you are using a touch screen.
 
Windows 8 is looking like a piece of shit unless you are using a touch screen.

Have you downloaded the developer beta and tried it...or are you just jumping on the hate wagon like everyone else?
 
I for one like this tile based thing just because I can customize where my tiles go. If it's accessed/activated via a key combination, that will be incredible.

However, I still require an easy keypress search function, ala windows key + search.
 
I rather like the idea. To be honest I don't EVER use the start menu for anything except opening a command prompt. Any applications I use are either on my quick launch bar or as icons on my desktop. However, as a programmer I also like to tinker! I require the flexibility to customize the interface both graphically and functionally. Additionally, I would never use this as a touch screen interface for anything but a tablet, I don't want smudges on my screen all the time. And it absolutely has to be functional on more than one screen (which I'm sure 90% of the users on this site would agree on). I think as long as they still provide the ability to deviate from the hideous colors and childishly simple default layout of the interface than I might consider upgrading. I am already dual booting Linux though so I may just deviate from windows altogether and do my .net programming in a windows virtual machine.

I do believe that this will probably be a hit on tablets though, I honestly this interface much more than anything else on a tablet. Both apple and android have worn the desktop/icon thing out. This will be a welcome change for any small touch screen devices IMO.
 
Having used it extensively in the developer preview, it works exactly the same as the start menu. Press the windows key and start typing and voila, it searches. If search isn't your thing you can still pin the tiles in any order you want (or remove them), so even on a lower resolution screen everything you need should be accessible without scrolling.

My two suggestions for improving it would be:

1. Allow search to be on Everything all at the same time like in Windows 7, as opposed to just apps, docs, etc.
2. Make shutdown/reboot more accessible.

Everything else is great. Its fast, and butter smooth.
 
Also, why are some so resistant to no start menu? There is absolutely no reason considering the start screen has the same behavior. Like, this seriously makes you not want to buy Windows 8? Care explaining why...other than "no start menu"?
 
Zarathustra[H];1037837569 said:
Uhh, the USB 3.0 controller on my motherboard seems to work just fine on my Win7 install...

Yes I know. USB 3.0 support in Windows 7 require third party drivers. Windows 8 supports USB 3.0 natively. Not that it'll make any difference, but it's a nice thing not to require drivers for every USB 3.0 device you plug into your computer.
 
Also, why are some so resistant to no start menu? There is absolutely no reason considering the start screen has the same behavior. Like, this seriously makes you not want to buy Windows 8? Care explaining why...other than "no start menu"?

Refer to my post in the previous page. The current one sucks for a work and productivity environment.
 
Refer to my post in the previous page. The current one sucks for a work and productivity environment.

In what way? Your icons do NOT get mixed together, new tiles get added to the end of the list and your "pinned" icons (they are all pinned technically) stay exactly where you want them. If you don't want certain tiles on your start screen, then remove them. You can customize it however you want. And once again, this is NOT the desktop, the desktop is the same as it has always been...so if you want to still use your desktop icons then nothing has changed.
 
Yes I know. USB 3.0 support in Windows 7 require third party drivers. Windows 8 supports USB 3.0 natively. Not that it'll make any difference, but it's a nice thing not to require drivers for every USB 3.0 device you plug into your computer.

Oh ok. yeah I can see that.

IMHO, the biggest deal when it comes to native support is basic VGA, keyboard mouse and networking.

Once you have those four, you can get any driver you need online :)
 
TFA said:
We found that people “in the know” who valued efficiency were moving away from the Start menu, and pinning their frequently used programs to the taskbar so that they could access them instantly in one click.

The taskbar isn't for frequently used programs. It's for infrequently used ones. IE, Word, and Excel may be pinned to the taskbar, but what about when you want to run cmd? mmc? dxdiag? msconfig? mspaint? notepad? calc? sol?
 
Zarathustra[H];1037838749 said:
Oh ok. yeah I can see that.

IMHO, the biggest deal when it comes to native support is basic VGA, keyboard mouse and networking.

Once you have those four, you can get any driver you need online :)

Yeah and thumb drives. I have a boatload of those. None of them are 3.0 though, lol
 
The taskbar isn't for frequently used programs. It's for infrequently used ones. IE, Word, and Excel may be pinned to the taskbar, but what about when you want to run cmd? mmc? dxdiag? msconfig? mspaint? notepad? calc? sol?

I'm not quite sure what point you are trying to make.

I'm fairly certain that for most average users (people in this forum excluded - of course) after Internet Explorer, the most frequently used programs ARE the office package.

Personally I haven't used the Windows calculator in decades. If i want to calculate anything I use Excel.

And if that isn't the case for you, it is fully customizeable.

Who's to say you can't put a link to the command prompt in the task bar?

Dxdiag is one of your frequently used programs? I only run that once every couple of years if I am having some sort of issue I need to troubleshoot. same for Msconfig. That gets run once when the OS is first installed and then never touched again.

What on earth is sol?
 
Zarathustra[H];1037837606 said:
The day I am forced to upgrade to 2007 or 2010 at work is the day I hand in my resignation.

Don't worry, if your IT is like mine you're stuck with 2003 forever...although here we're DYING to get 2010!

Not long ago IT allowed and installed newer AutoCAD's for us; went from 2004 to 2010. 2009 I believe (or '10, doesn't matter) introduced the Ribbon. I was given an early install so I could learn from it and then teach the other coworkers in my dept. After some reactionary looking for icons on the side of the window for a day, I found it much better with the ribbon to get at anything. I love that damn thing now!

..of course, one of the things I figured out early was how to change the UI back to 'classic' because every single one of my coworkers saw the new change, immediately said, "I don't want this crap change it back" without even giving it a shot.

The lesson here is to give newer UI's an honest chance and that if the developer is decent (aka Autodesk, Microsoft) they will make a 'classic' view :)
 
So long as there is an option for a classic desktop, I'm fine with this. An interface like this would be much more ideal for tablets and phones, and is MS is wanting a "one OS to rule them all" approach, then I could see why they would go this route. But for a desktop computer, or even a laptop, I would have no interest in an interface like this.
 
Don't worry, if your IT is like mine you're stuck with 2003 forever...although here we're DYING to get 2010!
The lesson here is to give newer UI's an honest chance and that if the developer is decent (aka Autodesk, Microsoft) they will make a 'classic' view :)

No thanks. As an IT admin who had to go through the "change" from office 2003 to 2007, I can tell you right now I have no interest in fielding calls from hundreds of angry users who can no longer perform simple tasks on their workstations because everything in the interface has been moved around.

"Toy" interfaces like this are fine for just that, toys. Like Asspads, and phones. Business users need business interfaces without fluff and garbage getting in the way.

For me personally, I like trying new things, and I will certainly give Win8 a try, but I can guarantee it isn't touching corporate desktops without a classic interface.
 
A. There are no improvements to the OS.
B. I don't own a netbook, and anyone who does will never buy Win8. It'll have to come with it.
C. Win8 merely is a GUI improvement. I mean disappointment.
D. If you believe otherwise then show me benchmarks.

Also, Vista isn't a GUI upgrade of XP. Everybody knows that, but that maybe why Vista was a horrible POS. Why you think people stuck with XP, cause they liked the way it looks? :rolleyes:

as said.. there are improvements A and C same thiong.

I am sure you were one of the people who stuck with XP cause Vista was a POS, it wasn't actually, sure it was if you had an old system or jump on the bandwagon and never actually used it on real hardware.

Everyone always says Vista was just a purdy GUI XP FTW!!! is all you would read around these forums and elsewhere cause people didnt bother reading up on the OS.

Your post is just more hate to an OS you know little about.
 
No thanks. As an IT admin who had to go through the "change" from office 2003 to 2007, I can tell you right now I have no interest in fielding calls from hundreds of angry users who can no longer perform simple tasks on their workstations because everything in the interface has been moved around.

"Toy" interfaces like this are fine for just that, toys. Like Asspads, and phones. Business users need business interfaces without fluff and garbage getting in the way.

For me personally, I like trying new things, and I will certainly give Win8 a try, but I can guarantee it isn't touching corporate desktops without a classic interface.

Glad you're not working for me. Ribbon is hardly a toy and fluff. It's intuitive and easy to use. Just because you don't like it, you should not withhold it from everyone else.

Office 2010 has other things going for it too if you can get your head past the "toy and fluff" Ribbon interface you had 5 years to get used to.
 
The taskbar isn't for frequently used programs. It's for infrequently used ones. IE, Word, and Excel may be pinned to the taskbar, but what about when you want to run cmd? mmc? dxdiag? msconfig? mspaint? notepad? calc? sol?

My "task" bar only has programs i use in it, i seldom go to my start menu...why would i not put the most used programs into an easy 1 click area, right click and open a file i needed under that program done, no more sarching in My Documents or the all programs section or any need to type in a program name to search for it

task bar - middle mouse click - new window, done.
 
There better be a option to use a "classic" start menu.

Stupid tablet bullshit.

There is, it's an icon on the tile screen, and there doesn't (as far as my friend has been trying anyway) appear to be a way of getting rid of the tile menu crap:rolleyes:

It's great that they have made something geared towards phones and tablets, but forcing people to use those devices is kind of stupid, I'm not going to ditch my gaming/media/workstation for bloody tablet, nor will I upgrade the OS to something that doesn't look any different from Windows 7.
 
There better be a option to use a "classic" start menu.

Stupid tablet bullshit.

This is what I'm hoping. Theres already a registry hack in the dev preview that gets rid of the metro UI. The underlying start menu still exists and I hope will always stay there.

I am starting to think Win 8 is going to be a huge failure on the desktop. Reason is for some reason MS seems convinced that people use their PCs like tablets, meaning only one app at a time. No, not so much. Everyone I know does the "multiple apps, multiple windows" thing. Not just power users. My mom does, all our accountants and secretaries do, etc. A major point of a GUI'd OS was to allow for multiple apps to run and interact easily.

I mean what the hell do they think people buy multiple monitors for? They know people do, and in great numbers. Multiple monitors are a big thing in offices these days (and business is a very important Windows market).

People are NOT going to like an attempt to force them to a "one app at a time" thing and aren't likley to want to upgrade. It won't even be because it is different, but because it is measurably less efficient to work that way.

The start screen is a fantastic menu system for a mouse and keyboard when you have a crapton of applications installed.

However, it can be a pain for a HTPC with an air-remote or touchscreen tablets.

Give people the OPTION for either view, its just a GUI after all, and I think this will be a huge success.

A. There are no improvements to the OS.
B. I don't own a netbook, and anyone who does will never buy Win8. It'll have to come with it.
C. Win8 merely is a GUI improvement. I mean disappointment.
D. If you believe otherwise then show me benchmarks.

Also, Vista isn't a GUI upgrade of XP. Everybody knows that, but that maybe why Vista was a horrible POS. Why you think people stuck with XP, cause they liked the way it looks? :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: so much fud. most of the vista issues were driver related, you cant hate on vista and love 7, since 7 is vista's kernel broken into smaller pieces(effectively)

No thanks. As an IT admin who had to go through the "change" from office 2003 to 2007, I can tell you right now I have no interest in fielding calls from hundreds of angry users who can no longer perform simple tasks on their workstations because everything in the interface has been moved around.

"Toy" interfaces like this are fine for just that, toys. Like Asspads, and phones. Business users need business interfaces without fluff and garbage getting in the way.

For me personally, I like trying new things, and I will certainly give Win8 a try, but I can guarantee it isn't touching corporate desktops without a classic interface.

I watched BUILD's live webcast on Win8. AERO will run inside METRO, I am hoping that complaints will actually seperate the two, or atleast you can fragment them more to have the win key use aero instead of metro

USB 3.0 support among other enhancements I would imagine.

I wish for native Blu-ray support but I knew it'd be too much to hope for.
no native blu-ray will be because of sony, not MS
 
:rolleyes: so much fud. most of the vista issues were driver related, you cant hate on vista and love 7, since 7 is vista's kernel broken into smaller pieces(effectively)



I watched BUILD's live webcast on Win8. AERO will run inside METRO, I am hoping that complaints will actually seperate the two, or atleast you can fragment them more to have the win key use aero instead of metro


no native blu-ray will be because of sony, not MS

Sony doesn't own Blu-ray. They're just a member of the board. It took awhile for Microsoft to adopt DVD support. It's just a matter of time. Maybe Windows 9.
 
What i find hilarious is that MS cant win when it tries to make noticable changes.

They put out this dev preview to give developers a taste of how the new Metro UI works, specifically in how it relates to tablets and other touchscreen devices. Its at best an alpha version of the OS. This is obviously not a preview of the entire system or a preview of how this can work for non touch enabled devices (i.e. desktops). I think its clear from what we are hearing from MS that there is ALOT of work yet to be done, so to form an opinion on win8 now is insane. Its one thing to give feedback, but to make assumptions on the final product based on this is pretty far fetched.

Just looking at this thread, it clear that there are users that would prefer that MS just kept releasing windows 2000/xp every year. and yet you have another group of users that will cry and moan about MS not being innovative or improving things like Apple does (of course thats a myth too, but its a popular idea). Of course there is also another group that hates everything MS and wants to use this as a call to adopt linux lol.

I remember back with Office 2007 and the anger that was generated among a volcal minority about the ribbon interface. As a long time user of office, it certainly was a jarring experience for me. I wasnt angry about it, but it did require me to set aside many of the usage methods i was use to and to give the new UI a fair shake. By the time 2010 rolled around, I couldnt see myself going back to the old ui. The ribbon interface is simply easier to use and I get to the functions I need faster. I also noticed that new users to Office took to the ribbon interface much quicker then veterans of the software.

MS is in a tough position. It has built its company around backwards compatibility, legacy support, and bending over backwards to keep the overall UI the same (they make graphical changes here and there, move a menu or two, but otherwise, you see a pretty familiar ui in 7 that has been around for decades). Unfortunately its those things that also prevent them from trying anything radically new. Whereas Apple doesnt give a crap about those things and quite often throws out the old to bring out something seriously different. So Apple gets alot of public praise, while MS gets shunned and put down as stuck in the past.

I really dont know how MS can balance both needs with a single interface. I think the fact that some users are going to be so stubborn about it tells me that they simply need to leave the option to enable a classic ui. I think there are many power users that are more than willing to try something new and adopt a new direction if they can get thier work done just as easily and quickly, but there are also some power users that simply wont accept any serious changes, so MS has to continue to play the balancing game to try and keep everyone happy.
 
I solely use the windows 7 start menu via the window key shortcut, where I'll quickly type in either a partial program name, document, or whatever search query and it give me instant access to it without having to click anything (few keystrokes+enter). Windows 7 is nicely indexed and can get to any program/document i've ever tried to access in less than 2 seconds. The recent list, all programs list and other clutter are almost entirely worthless. I will occasionally use it to right click on computer to go to manage/properties. I'm basically using the start menu as a glorified run prompt w/ its autocomplete search functionality.

The start menu program navigation is 100% garbage from a usability standpoint and anybody who tries to argue against that is high on chromosomes. Good luck trying to argue otherwise.
 
Don't worry, if your IT is like mine you're stuck with 2003 forever...although here we're DYING to get 2010!

Not long ago IT allowed and installed newer AutoCAD's for us; went from 2004 to 2010. 2009 I believe (or '10, doesn't matter) introduced the Ribbon. I was given an early install so I could learn from it and then teach the other coworkers in my dept. After some reactionary looking for icons on the side of the window for a day, I found it much better with the ribbon to get at anything. I love that damn thing now!

..of course, one of the things I figured out early was how to change the UI back to 'classic' because every single one of my coworkers saw the new change, immediately said, "I don't want this crap change it back" without even giving it a shot.

The lesson here is to give newer UI's an honest chance and that if the developer is decent (aka Autodesk, Microsoft) they will make a 'classic' view :)

I spent 20 minutes last night helping my wife make a chart in Excel on her Citrix session to work where they have Office 2010.

Doing the same thing would have taken me less than 20 seconds in Office 2003.

Now, granted, most of this was because I was frustratedly searching through all the tabs looking for the options I wanted, finally giving up and having to Google them to figure out how to do it.

I was still never able to find the "Chart Options" dialogue (maybe its gone?) but I wound up with something reasonably close to what she wanted.

Once the learning curve is up, I'm sure I'll get to the point where I am almost as efficient at using it as the menu based UI, but I don't think it will ever be quite as efficient, as I feel the new Ribbon interface has too many inherent inefficiencies.

What bugs me is that I am being forced into a huge learning curve for something that doesn't really do anything I couldn't already do before.

There are some nice added features (most notably for me no more row limitations in Excel) but this could have been accomplished with the classic interface.

The first time I piked up an IOS device, there was absolutely 0 learning curve. Everything (except maybe typing) was completely smooth from day one. If the new Office interface is as good as everyone says, shouldn't this be the case for it as well?

To me, if there is such a large learning curve it means they did something wrong.
 
Also,

Don't worry, if your IT is like mine you're stuck with 2003 forever...

They'll be forced off of XP eventually, and when that happens, I'm pretty sure we'll all have office 2010+

..of course, one of the things I figured out early was how to change the UI back to 'classic' because every single one of my coworkers saw the new change, immediately said, "I don't want this crap change it back" without even giving it a shot.

Can you do this without admin privileges to the OS? Every classic UI I've seen has been in the form of a downloadable addon.
 
Back
Top