In gaming, everything is amazing, but no one is happy

LeninGHOLA said:
So you base your enjoyment of a game on how profitable and popular it is, rather than the quality?

You sound miffed because some jackass PC gamer made fun of you a long time ago. If you want the elitists to die out, why do you bring them up almost every time you post?

Don't be Don Quixote.
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Exactly

Call of Duty Black Ops was/is the best selling game of all time, yet would anybody REALLY say it's the best game of all time? Or even a great game?

Probably not . . . . . if they have even the most modest of standards would they make that kind of claim and hope to retain any kind of credibility.
 
XvMMvX said:
What we know about "l33t" PC Gamers:

1. They have no idea how to run a business, or how a market works. If they had their way the industry would be broke and be on life support. They would run any of these companies into the ground. See the video game crash in the 80's...

2. They have no clue what small percentage of the market place they make up. Their desktop gaming rigs are dying...people do not want those things in the house anymore, they have moved on to laptops...and the people that can afford them have other things like Kids, Work, and such that they have moved on too. The only ones left are living in their mom's basement faping to their FPS in Crysis, and their job at the computer repair shop or geek squad at BB barely pays for their "rig"...so they can't afford the games for it. The people that can have moved on and they want something that they can easily sit on the couch after the kids are asleep and play for a while.

3. They want developers to go broke pushing their "l33t" rigs to the max, and they want the full game for $30 with a decade of support.

4. They like to think that just because somebody plays an FPS on console they are stupid...and beneath them.

Your hobby is no longer what it was....video games are played by a lot more people now. If you want it to be viewed as something that only uber nerds do then find a new hobby. I hear that Magic the Gathering still caters to the stink teenagers with poor hygein crowd.
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:rolleyes:
 
XvMMvX said:
What we know about "l33t" PC Gamers:

1. They have no idea how to run a business, or how a market works. If they had their way the industry would be broke and be on life support. They would run any of these companies into the ground. See the video game crash in the 80's...

2. They have no clue what small percentage of the market place they make up. Their desktop gaming rigs are dying...people do not want those things in the house anymore, they have moved on to laptops...and the people that can afford them have other things like Kids, Work, and such that they have moved on too. The only ones left are living in their mom's basement faping to their FPS in Crysis, and their job at the computer repair shop or geek squad at BB barely pays for their "rig"...so they can't afford the games for it. The people that can have moved on and they want something that they can easily sit on the couch after the kids are asleep and play for a while.

3. They want developers to go broke pushing their "l33t" rigs to the max, and they want the full game for $30 with a decade of support.

4. They like to think that just because somebody plays an FPS on console they are stupid...and beneath them.

Your hobby is no longer what it was....video games are played by a lot more people now. If you want it to be viewed as something that only uber nerds do then find a new hobby. I hear that Magic the Gathering still caters to the stink teenagers with poor hygein crowd.
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This is a prime example of how not to make an argument, there's nothing rational or anything of substance in it, it's just full of put downs and insults rather than offering some kind of intelligent argument.
 
Fail said:
Really?

We now have

DLC
onerous DRM schemes
sequelitis
consolitis
overexploited IP's that exist only to generate sales rather than actually selling on the merits of being a good game.
Day One games that often are nothing more than beta tests that people pay full price to join.
Games have gotten shorter rather than longer
Quality of games has degraded tremendously compared to games from past years
Microtransactions
Removal of key features like LAN support and dedicated servers

Need I go on?
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Some of these are not really a problem.

1) DLC - there is nothing that says this is a bad thing per se. DLC is just this generation's expansion pack. Some of them are shitty and not worth it, some of them are. Day zero DLC sucks, but DLC is not bad per se.

3) Sequelitis - We had sequels back in the "golden age" too. I think developers learned their lesson about sequelitis (RIP Rock Band, Tony Hawk, etc.) and this is not as big a problem as it is made out to be. The games most PC gamers are looking forward to this year have not had sequels in many, many years (Skyrim, BF3, D3). Just because it's an older IP doesn't immediately mean it is bad.

4) Overexploited IPs - What IPs have been "over exploited?" I assume, just like 3, this is just a (deserved) swipe at Call of Duty. Call of Duty has certainly been used left and right, but what other games have been "over exploited?" How many UTs did we have back in the "golden age?"

5) Games have gotten shorter - Have they? Multiplayer online gaming has basically made games last a lot, lot longer. I'd say you are only recalling the AAA titles of yore, which were AAA titles for a reason. I bet the average game actually have a longer shelf life now.

6) Quality of games has degraded - impossible to define. What makes a game "quality?" Production values on a technical level are through the roof compared to what we used to have, and they are all more expensive to make. There was plenty of shovelware bullshit back in the day as well (anyone play Yo Noid on the NES?)

7) Microtransaction - this is a load of bullshit, as I know for a fact you play League of Legends. That game certainly hasn't been ruined by microtransactions. If anything, this has saved a number of games by going free to play.
 
XvMMvX said:
What we know about "l33t" PC Gamers:

1. They have no idea how to run a business, or how a market works. If they had their way the industry would be broke and be on life support. They would run any of these companies into the ground. See the video game crash in the 80's...

2. They have no clue what small percentage of the market place they make up. Their desktop gaming rigs are dying...people do not want those things in the house anymore, they have moved on to laptops...and the people that can afford them have other things like Kids, Work, and such that they have moved on too. The only ones left are living in their mom's basement faping to their FPS in Crysis, and their job at the computer repair shop or geek squad at BB barely pays for their "rig"...so they can't afford the games for it. The people that can have moved on and they want something that they can easily sit on the couch after the kids are asleep and play for a while.

3. They want developers to go broke pushing their "l33t" rigs to the max, and they want the full game for $30 with a decade of support.

4. They like to think that just because somebody plays an FPS on console they are stupid...and beneath them.

Your hobby is no longer what it was....video games are played by a lot more people now. If you want it to be viewed as something that only uber nerds do then find a new hobby. I hear that Magic the Gathering still caters to the stink teenagers with poor hygein crowd.
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1. All decent and thriving devs are or were "l33t pc gamers" (I'm internally translating that to people who actually care about gaming) themselves. Basically they have a clue about this hobby. You obviously haven't. Why are you here?

2. Overall we make up a healthy share of gamers and definitely enough to make money off of us, that is if you have a fucking clue and a bit of talent. It's no doubt difficult to strike gold but if all you can do is copy something from the past and only do a half assed job at it then what the fuck did you expect?

3. No we don't.. we just want something that's fun, deep and original if possible. Inspiring and/or advanced graphics is a plus. If you cared to converse with us you would understand this but clearly you are some kind of lost moron who doesn't understand his environment.

4. Lol. That is just unfortunate... no other comment necessary.

Honestly what are you even doing here? This mentality of yours has no place in creative business. Get lost.
 
Id still rather play some old school games on MAME when i have the time then play some of the newer games hehe.
 
Katalysis said:
5) Games have gotten shorter - Have they? Multiplayer online gaming has basically made games last a lot, lot longer. I'd say you are only recalling the AAA titles of yore, which were AAA titles for a reason. I bet the average game actually have a longer shelf life now.
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You make some good points but I don't agree with 5. MP games last less time with me than they used to. Back in the good old days we had developers releasing map packs for free and community created mods and maps. Quake1-3, BF1942, UT, etc. all supported this and lasted a long time because of it. Now you're lucky if a new non-COD/BF/Starcraft game even has enough players to survive the first month.
 
This thread is oddly devolving into the PC vs console nonsense. Fail I think you share some blame here using that term that that forces people to choose sides "consolitis".

Saying that derogatory term invokes the statement that consoles are bad, are to blame for lack of quality in the gaming industry, and that console gamers are bad people for playing them. I know that's not what you mean infact it's not what it's suppose to mean but it invokes the "Elitist" responses. We need to get away from that term. Consoles are fucking great! and so are the people who play them. Gamers are not the bad guys. Publishers are. Publishers are buying up all the studios and staff that have the possibility of churning out original and amazing IPs and putting them on a factory line turning out bullshit DLC and mappacks. I honestly don't have an answer. PC gamers are eating it up just as bad as console gamers, but I don't think splitting people into camps is the answer.

The guy writing the article is really just looking to make people more angry = page hits.
 
piscian18 said:
This thread is oddly devolving into the PC vs console nonsense. Fail I think you share some blame here using that term that that forces people to choose sides "consolitis".

Saying that derogatory term invokes the statement that consoles are bad, are to blame for lack of quality in the gaming industry, and that console gamers are bad people for playing them. I know that's not what you mean infact it's not what it's suppose to mean but it invokes the "Elitist" responses. We need to get away from that term. Consoles are fucking great! and so are the people who play them. Gamers are not the bad guys. Publishers are. Publishers are buying up all the studios and staff that have the possibility of churning out original and amazing IPs and putting them on a factory line turning out bullshit DLC and mappacks. I honestly don't have an answer. PC gamers are eating it up just as bad as console gamers, but I don't think splitting people into camps is the answer.

The guy writing the article is really just looking to make people more angry = page hits.
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You're wrong, and you know full well what consolitis is and it's definitely not the definition you used in your post and you know it.

I own a PS3 and a Wii, both collect dust and I haven't played them in months. I was a console gamer for the better part of my life, and I have been playing computer games on and off over the years, it was only around 2002-2003 that PC gaming became my main hobby over consoles.

Sure, I still owned all the consoles, I just found the gaming experience to be superior on the PC platform in every sense of the word.

What you're failing here is what consolitis really means, it means that what we get are not actual PC games, but console games ported over to PC instead of the other way around, and that includes all the bad things:

no dedicated servers
DLC
fewer options to customize
no modding tools
map packs
microtransactions

all these are the bad things that consolitis has brought to the PC platform

you're damn right I'm gonna speak up against this scourge.
 
I think what we have now is a broader defintion of the word "gamer". My mother in law is a Popgames fanatic. She pounds the hell out of Bejeweled and the like and buys games like it almost 4-5 times a month with little to no backlog. Because of the games she plays, I wouldn't call her a "gamer" per se because of the games she plays, but maybe back in the 90s or late 80s, she'd be M@D L33T.

With increased popularity and the obvious money that can be made, there are more and more options to play, and many may say that's the reason for the downfall. Although we have more games to play, with a great many of them unforgettable, there are some definite gems out there, regardless of platform.

Gaming is such a personal thing and I don't see the reason why people need to argue about it. I like Terraria. I like Dead Island. I like Madden 12. I like NBA2K11. I don't feel the need to bash folks who like competing games, nor do I feel compelled to defend my tastes. Hate if you want, but the way I see it, its just different strokes for different folks.
 
If this is a "golden age" of gaming, then why aren't the games I want to play available? Where are the adventure games, ala Space Quest? I still play Space Quest III from time to time. Where are the space sims, ala Freespace? Where is Mechwarrior (and yes I know about that Mechwarrior mod for Crysis)? There is demand for these games, but little to no supply. How is this a good thing?
 
the best game of 2012 will have a beta release in oktober.

*cough* Counter Strike GO

it will bring back and unite console and pc gamers
 
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Fix Me said:
If this is a "golden age" of gaming, then why aren't the games I want to play available? Where are the adventure games, ala Space Quest? I still play Space Quest III from time to time. Where are the space sims, ala Freespace? Where is Mechwarrior (and yes I know about that Mechwarrior mod for Crysis)? There is demand for these games, but little to no supply. How is this a good thing?
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If you are unhappy about this, I couldn't blame you at all. There haven't been any good graphical adventure or deep space sims in some time.
 
Dear lord. It's the "quit complaining; anyone else who wants more for their money is a self-entitled whiner" argument spread over several paragraphs.

He doesn't understand that the market is so flooded that we have higher demands from the cream of the crop than we used to. If there are a hundred times as many games out there, they need to be a hundred times more innovative to be the cream of the crop. If you want our money, you have to earn it, because there are ninety-nine other game companies out there ready to accept it.
 
The Witcher 2 is an example of what happens when quality is considered. Considering the game sold 1 million copies. That may not seem like anything but considering, The demeaning system requirements, PC only, unknown IP, lack of advertising, polish developer. Just on word of mouth.

Also why the fuck does everyone keep bringing up the "lol nerd, basement dweller" when insulting us anyway?
 
PrincessFrosty said:
The quality of games and actual gameplay has dropped (on average) significantly over the last 5+ years.

The problem is the market which was once geared towards supplying games to gamers has become flooded with modern console games and casual gamers, now the market is about supplying set pieces to casuals. Casual gamers don't want games, they want something cool to do for 15 minutes, that they can pick up immediately and discard almost as fast.

Games today are easy to pick up and play which means they're shallow and easy to complete, the gameplay mechanics can't be too complex otherwise it takes effort to learn. Stories are worse, the RPGs of old no longer exist because console gamers can't make it through hours of coherent story they want quick set pieces and explosions. The games are sold predominantly on consoles which has all but killed graphical enhancements, all the additional power of PCs today is wasted simply because no one is putting that to good use, it's more efficient to make 1 game that fits all rather than tailor a game for multiple platforms, because it makes a bigger profit and that's because profit is the driving force behind modern games, it's NOT good games that sell, it's games that attract the biggest crowd of casual players.

Anyone arguing that things are amazing is just another part of the casual crowd, these people are not gamers, they have no perspective of what games are because they've never actually played a proper game, they think MW2 is the apex of shooters, oblivion is a proper RPG and Dead space is scary.

It's laughable.
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I'm a "hardcore" gamer and I disagree with pretty much everything you just said...I do however agree with most of the points touched on in the quoted article.
 
erf said:
I'm a "hardcore" gamer and I disagree with pretty much everything you just said...I do however agree with most of the points touched on in the quoted article.
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If you disagree with what he said, then it's more likely that you've mislabeled yourself as a "hardcore gamer" and you're more than likely a casual gamer, because you'll buy anything they sell you on.
 
TwistedAegis said:
Looks at thread.

Looks at 10-ft pole.

Nope, not touching it.
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Too bad, by posting (and condemning the arguing), you're already tainted. :eek: Now you can swim swim swim in the bile. You're just as much a sinner. :p

I'm not a big fan of complaining. And too much of it does happen with a lot of good games. However, if we the customer's just quietly drop our pants to the draconian DRM, "less for more" marketing schemes, games are services not owned, pay to unlock what's on your disk, and similar shenanigans then the market will take a turn for the worse.

I don't like hate complaining, but if we all take it quietly we do gamers a disservice, and also a disservice to the devs who try to make a good game. Good devs would be drowned out by trash pushed by the marketing schemers.
 
Fail said:
If you disagree with what he said, then it's more likely that you've mislabeled yourself as a "hardcore gamer" and you're more than likely a casual gamer, because you'll buy anything they sell you on.
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You're black and white, all or nothing, aren't you? ;)
 
Anybody else think that if PC gamers werent getting snubbed by all the developers so they can cater to the console market and cash in on that Modern Warfare money, that we'd be a little happier.

Crysis 2. DX9. Press Start To Begin. 'Nuff said.
 
Fail said:
If you disagree with what he said, then it's more likely that you've mislabeled yourself as a "hardcore gamer" and you're more than likely a casual gamer, because you'll buy anything they sell you on.
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I'm a hardcore gamer in that I know what games I enjoy and when I enjoy them I spend a shit load of time enjoying them...and I'll pay a measly $10 a month to enjoy them too. I may not be in the realm of the hardest of the hardcore but I'm pretty sure I'm up there...and if you're referring to me as being "casual" because I happen to enjoy and be very good at a game that you can't stand...well...I can't argue with your grandiose delusion of what "casual" actually means.
 
MacLeod said:
Anybody else think that if PC gamers werent getting snubbed by all the developers so they can cater to the console market and cash in on that Modern Warfare money, that we'd be a little happier.

Crysis 2. DX9. Press Start To Begin. 'Nuff said.
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Couldn't have said it better, and that's exactly the problem right there, the only solution is to vote with our wallets, unfortunately those of us who choose to do that by closing them are in the minority, and it's not even close.
 
See, people have standards, and when new games start coming out that are missing key things from old games, something has clearly gone wrong, and people are going to get pissed off.

Simple as that.
 
Fix Me said:
If this is a "golden age" of gaming, then why aren't the games I want to play available? Where are the adventure games, ala Space Quest? I still play Space Quest III from time to time. Where are the space sims, ala Freespace? Where is Mechwarrior (and yes I know about that Mechwarrior mod for Crysis)? There is demand for these games, but little to no supply. How is this a good thing?
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Guess you haven't heard of Telltale games? The new Sam & Max, Monkey Island, Back to the Future and they are still making games. Machinarium was very popular. There are a few new indie games. You could even count LA Noire and Heavy Rain as an adventure type game. Also here is a link for a new Kings Quest game "The Silver Lining" below

There is a Mechwarrior like game coming out but I have forgotten its name. There is video for it and its PC only.

http://www.tsl-game.com/
 
Gott said:
So he stole that from Louis CK.
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Should have been obvious from the get go?

And generally right. People say "vote with your wallet" all the time. But it sounds to me like people rather enjoy paying for their "right" to bitch about things and buy them anyway. So many "I pre-ordered this game and it sucks!" posts. Shouldn't you know better than to pre-order in the first place?
 
What you're failing here is what consolitis really means, it means that what we get are not actual PC games, but console games ported over to PC instead of the other way around, and that includes all the bad things:

no dedicated servers
DLC
fewer options to customize
no modding tools
map packs
microtransactions

all these are the bad things that consolitis has brought to the PC platform
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GASP!!!! They made changes to make money, they are a company and thats what they do. If you don't like it, then don't buy it....but like I have said if you want to be alone in your principles then find another hobby because this one has moved on.

Also why the fuck does everyone keep bringing up the "lol nerd, basement dweller" when insulting us anyway?
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Because you spend more time complain about how companies don't spend millions maxing out your "gaming rig". The way you consoles talk about "consolitis" makes you seem like you spend more time worrying about what a games has, tweaking your FPS, modding the game, etc than actually just playing the game. it seems that if you met someone who plays the same game but on console you would betrate them for their choice, call them stupid, and try and make it sound that they aren't "real" gamers.
 
There is much irony in your logic, X. You insult PC gamers in almost every thread I see you post in. Stop the hate, bring the love, you fuzzy little guy.
 
erf said:
I'm a "hardcore" gamer and I disagree with pretty much everything you just said...I do however agree with most of the points touched on in the quoted article.
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As a hardcore gamer, you should then realize that today's game are significantly less challenging then they were in the past

And I'm not even talking about console vs PC here. Even on the Sega Genesis console, we used to have challenging games like Batman & Robin and Sonic, these games are mighty difficult you don't just clear them at first try. And then there are also many complex RPG games like Ultima.

Compare those to today's game, most of today's RPG games have many of its complex elements stripped off to simplify the game that even a retarded 9 year old can play it. FPS games are filled with health regeneration.


Another point that bugs me, as already raised by others earlier, is the lack of mod. Modding is a very important tool for PC gaming scene as it allows people with passion to realize their own ideas for a game without needing financial support. Thanks to Half Life, many great ideas like CS, TF and DoD came out of nowhere, made by people who were practically nobody at that time. If there was no modding in PC games, we would not have heard of these games.

Yet today, many gaming company tries to kill or restrict modding in an effort to push their own DLC
 
The author of the article is wrong when he says no one is happy. More people are spending more money to play more games and the industry keeps on growing. People are obviously enjoying gaming or this wouldn't be happening. The only people unhappy are forum goers who somehow think they are 'real' gamers, that their opinion matters more than others and that they are superior because they don't like a game someone else does. And so they make noise on forums, but that's all it is... noise. Most people continue to enjoy their games. The others continue to complain about it.
 
There is much irony in your logic, X. You insult PC gamers in almost every thread I see you post in. Stop the hate, bring the love, you fuzzy little guy.
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I generally only insult PC gamers (which I am one...but i happen to enjoy my PS3 just as much) when the "Consolitis", "Console Kiddies", or "Not a real gamer" insults start to fly. I am on this forum because I enjoy Hardware and technology, but unlike most on here I also understand what it takes to turn a profit and what decisions are made when targeting your market place. Time goes on and things change, and as a PC gamer who spent hours trying to make the perfect boot disk for Tie Fighter I now understand why things like consoles, match making, etc are so well received, it just works.

I don't find the need to call people stupid because of the products they choose, sorry. However, it seems that those in this crowd need to make themselves feel surprior by insulting ones intelligence because he purchased a PS3 and plays Battlefield on that.

Real gamers actually play the games, it seems most on here just bitch or spend their time tweaking. Someone mentioned that PC hardware is a 10 BILLION dollar industry, well the entire video game market is a $65 BILLION dollar industry which is dominated by consoles...which do you think is easier to turn a profit in.

I do not have the time to play these in depth single player games you guess fall all over. In fact I do not play single player games at all, when I have time to play (two hours a night) I jump into a BF game, HoN, or the like with my friends who live all across the country.

Shit there are people on here complaining about Battlefield 3. If you are not happy with the way Dice is handling that game then just quit gaming, seriously. They are a model for a game developer. They are going to have a GREAT experience no matter what system or method you ch0ose.

Oh and to note I just realized how big of a hypocrit Fail is. He bitches about things like micro transactions but plays League of Legends...does not compute.
 
There have been shitty games since the beginning of video games. I don't think criticism about games should be taken with as much butt hurt as the author of this article has. There is always room for improvement, just because some things are "amazing" doesn't mean we should lower our expectations or say "Oh, I guess that's good enough."
 
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