Samsung SA850 on PLS - the first review has been published (preproduction unit)

Personally, if i was thinking about buying a monitor that had only just came onto the market, i would only buy it from a well known store with a good returns policy. That way it could be returned easily and refunded if you are not happy.

Does every store have to abide by the distant sales act? (i read a 30 day distant sales act that ocuk have where anything can be returned within 30 days for a refund)
 
Agree. Waiting for a place that has a good return policy and has them in stock before I pull the trigger.. And the monitor return policy varies from store to store. They all have to take stuff back but some want you to work with the manufacturer - and others have dead pixels rules and such.
 
Ledders said:
Here's the problem. OMGWTF backlight bleed! The uniformity is ATROCIOUS. The bottom of my screen has several hotspots that are clearly visible from the darker greys onward toward black. Lighter colors aren't an issue, thankfully.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/66900507@N06/6087191013/

The above picture was taken midday, in a room lit by an open window with the monitor at stock settings displaying a black screen. Notice anything wrong (other than the terrible phone camera quality)?

Now, on to Samsung's support... I received this monitor on Aug 15th. I sent an email to their support. On the 17th I got a response asking for some personal information to get things rolling. Information sent. After no response, I again email them on Aug 24. Aug 26 I get an email telling me that the serial number I sent was not valid. Unfortunately, the serial in the reply with wasn't the one I sent... which would be obvious if the moron had bothered to read the serial from the email and double check. Somewhat annoyed, I call Samsung. I wait on hold.... I get asked for information and then a product model number. "Wait is this a camera? No? Let me transfer you to the right department." Somehow Samsung's phone system decided to route me to the wrong department (And I did double check to make sure I didn't hit the wrong key because I'm anal like that.) Anyhow, more waiting and more information to give out. I find out Samsung no longer ships replacements in advance. "It'll take 1 to 2 business weeks" the representative states. So... about 2 to 3 real world weeks when shipping is considered. Great.
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I think you just convinced me not to buy this monitor.
 
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Ledders said:
Hey guys, I bought one of these(S27A850D) as soon as they hit the market. Not going to do a full review right now due to some issues I have with the monitor. Here's the basics though since so many are asking.

When I opened up the package the first thing I noticed was the sleek looks and AWESOME AG filter. It's what I would call semi-gloss. If you turn the monitor off and put a penny in front you can see its reflection. Turn the monitor on, however, and there is no glare whatsoever. There is also ZERO "graininess" on the whites. AWESOME. Out of the box, the gamma on my S27A850D was 2.3 and somewhat green shifted. After calibration, everything is spot on. If you're worried about brightness in this LED edgelit display, don't. The stock luminance was around 370, well above the 120 I use. Ghosting is not an issue either. Playing a slew of different games, I found there to be some ghosting. However, it was minimally noticeable. This is a great gaming monitor.

So, awesome so far. Here's the problem. OMGWTF backlight bleed! The uniformity is ATROCIOUS. The bottom of my screen has several hotspots that are clearly visible from the darker greys onward toward black. Lighter colors aren't an issue, thankfully.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/66900507@N06/6087191013/

The above picture was taken midday, in a room lit by an open window with the monitor at stock settings displaying a black screen. Notice anything wrong (other than the terrible phone camera quality)?

Now, on to Samsung's support... I received this monitor on Aug 15th. I sent an email to their support. On the 17th I got a response asking for some personal information to get things rolling. Information sent. After no response, I again email them on Aug 24. Aug 26 I get an email telling me that the serial number I sent was not valid. Unfortunately, the serial in the reply with wasn't the one I sent... which would be obvious if the moron had bothered to read the serial from the email and double check. Somewhat annoyed, I call Samsung. I wait on hold.... I get asked for information and then a product model number. "Wait is this a camera? No? Let me transfer you to the right department." Somehow Samsung's phone system decided to route me to the wrong department (And I did double check to make sure I didn't hit the wrong key because I'm anal like that.) Anyhow, more waiting and more information to give out. I find out Samsung no longer ships replacements in advance. "It'll take 1 to 2 business weeks" the representative states. So... about 2 to 3 real world weeks when shipping is considered. Great.

So I check my email to get my packing label (at least they pay for the shipping). I print it, I look at it, I say "Fuck" out loud. My return address is wrong. It's the weekend so I wait until tomorrow (Aug 27th) to contact them again. While I'm at it, I might as well try out all 3 methods of contacting their support. I try to connect to their support chat. Busy. Try again a few hours later, Busy. Again... Success! I cut and paste my monologue. Rep reads. Dicks around a while. Words are exchanged and shit gets fixed. I check my email before disconnecting to verify. If you need to use Samsung support, I'd suggest the support chat.

That's where I stand right now. I get to wait a few weeks to get the monitor back. They may fix it, they might send it back as is, they might scratch the shit out of it. Who knows.
Would I order the S27A850D again? No. Not with my experience as well as the one previous review. I'm betting the backlight issue is more the norm for this model. If you can, wait it out. Maybe Samsung clears this up in later batches. The monitor is incredible otherwise. But remember, Samsung's support isn't what it used to be. I've seen quiet a few horror stories lately. I'll be updating and writing a more complete review when and if I get my replacement.
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this is disappointing to read :/
 
alienate said:
It looks like Samsung ruined what would otherwise be a very nice monitor by deciding to go with edge lit LED over full back lit. Edge lit TV's can get away with bleed because of local dimming, a monitor cannot. They obviously decided to go the cheap route but the unit is still $900! What a horrendous decision by Samsung.
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I don't think it has to do with W-LED versus CCFL.

Maybe you meant to say "array-lit"? Edge Lit doesn't have local dimming, as far as I know. I don't think that there is built-in electronic compensation on Samsung TVs for clouding or other backlight uniformity issues either.

Regardless, for those that have said to go to Amazon, remember if they have no stock, it's a return and not an exchange in hopes of winning a panel lottery.

Keep in mind that Samsung has traditionally had problems with backlight clouding on TVs for most of their production years, so this shouldn't come as a huge surprise.

@Ledders: Thanks a lot for the photo and your impressions. The corner glow looks like regular IPS glow, but whatever is there at the bottom is seemingly back light bleeding. Good luck with the next one.
 
Ocardowin said:
Maybe calibration was the wrong term...

Would turning brightness down from the always-ridiculously-high stock settings address the problem?
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Bad analogy, but if you wore scratched sun glasses - would they suddenly become less scratched when you use them on a rainy day compared to a sunny day?
We can talk about bleeding becoming less annoying and less apparent (along with scratched sunglasses on a rainy day), i.e. when the general brightness has been lowered considerably. But from that picture the difference between "black" and "bleeding" looks far to extreme to appear even in the ballpark to uniform at normal brightnesses.

It's still way to few reports to be able to judge the quality of these displays, even though the negative reports are really discouraging people from buying them.
Maybe this is why they were delayed for such a long time - they tried to perfect the assembly process, but obviously still has much to improve.
 
tk-don said:
Bad analogy, but if you wore scratched sun glasses - would they suddenly become less scratched when you use them on a rainy day compared to a sunny day?
We can talk about bleeding becoming less annoying and less apparent (along with scratched sunglasses on a rainy day), i.e. when the general brightness has been lowered considerably. But from that picture the difference between "black" and "bleeding" looks far to extreme to appear even in the ballpark to uniform at normal brightnesses.

It's still way to few reports to be able to judge the quality of these displays, even though the negative reports are really discouraging people from buying them.
Maybe this is why they were delayed for such a long time - they tried to perfect the assembly process, but obviously still has much to improve.
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Well, to be honest, my monitor could have the worst backlight bleeding in the history of monitors at max brightness, but if it's barely noticeable at normal use brightness levels, I, personally, wouldn't care. That's why I ask. I bought one of these displays. Should be here Wednesday, assuming UPS can deliver through the floods. I'll let you guys know.
 
Tak Ne said:
It is but the problems so far seem to be related to Samsung rather than the PLS technology itself.
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i hope so i just want a 27" @ the res 2560x1440 and the u2711 has input lag that i may very well notice. only zr30w i guess is the last real option
 
Just ordered with free 3-day shipping from PC Nation. I was debating between this and the ACD... hope I made the right decision.
 
Well be sure to let us know how it looks, it is supposed to be in stock here in europe on the first and I am not sure which one I will buy
 
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Sotorious said:
i hope so i just want a 27" @ the res 2560x1440 and the u2711 has input lag that i may very well notice. only zr30w i guess is the last real option
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I went for the hazro hz27wc. Its the apple cinema display panel, but in a crap frame with only a dvi connection

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews/monitors/368839/hazro-hz27wc

I was debating within the samsung in this thread and the hazro. The hazro was only £400 too, so i got a graphics card (480gtx) for £160 to go with it. Still cheaper than the dell, apple or samsung

Please post pics and reviews of the samsung as i zm interested in pls tech
 
Hey guys. I won't be able to ship the monitor back until tomorrow so I wanted to post a better image of the backlight uniformity. This image is with the monitor fully calibrated at 120 cdm/2 in a pitch black room.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/66900507@N06/6094724177

Someone brought up the IPS glow. It's definitely there, but about on par with the IPS panels I've seen. I'll say it again: This monitor is awesome in every way other than the backlight issue. Hell, the AG is the best I've ever seen on a monitor. My monitor might be a fluke, and Samsung may improve the backlighting in a later revision. People also tend to post the bad rather than the good online as well.

The warranty service is also disappointing on a product at this price point. I really used to love Samsung because the had great service a few years back, but not so much anymore. I needed a monitor YESTERDAY when I ordered the A27A850D so I took the gamble. I'd wait for more reviews if you can hold off on getting a monitor.
 
Does anyone know if the 24inch model is true 8-bit like the 27 inch model??

and will is it going to be released!
 
jinny1 said:
Does anyone know if the 24inch model is true 8-bit like the 27 inch model??

and will is it going to be released!
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6-bit + FRC.

Unless you are a hardcore professional photographer, or specifically look for something attributed to the FRC "circuit" of the panel it should look as good as any true 8-bit around.

Samsung should be as good at this as LG, and in that case, it should be transparent to the user.

If the backlight bleed and factory colors are decent, this will be a welcome competitor to the Dell U2412M. While the Dell has a very light anti-glare dirty look, some will prefer the Samsung AG in comparison
 
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Since this monitor supports picture-by-picture, is there any way to get it display half computer, half television (using HDMI --> DVI from a digital cable box or something)?
 
Sotorious said:
So only real complaint here is back light bleed uniformity right?
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So far, but only one unit from Ledders, who nicely registered on this site to post.

Bladestorm bought one and Ocardowin has one on the way so hopefully this will be resolved, and not a common occurence. Bladestorm's silence is actually encouraging, because I figured he would have been pretty mad about it and posted already :)
 
Long time reader, 1st time poster. Just an FYI that I ordered mine at Buy.com for $465 (which includes a $15 coupon you can find doing a simple Google search) Plus they have Free Shipping and a very good 45 Day return policy with no restock fees.

Monitor sounds great and hopefully the bleeding is not as big of a deal... I really like the fact the monitor has a built in USB 3.0 hub too.
 
PuckCowboy said:
Long time reader, 1st time poster. Just an FYI that I ordered mine at Buy.com for $479 minus a $15 coupon you can find doing a simple Google Search. Plus they have Free Shipping and a very good 45 Day return policy with no restock fees.

Monitor sounds great and hopefully the bleeding is not as big of a deal... I really like the fact the monitor has a built in USB 3.0 hub too.
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Let us know what you think. Back light bleed will show up when viewed close and far away, while IPS/PLS glow will only show up from close up as your viewing angle to the corners is more extreme.

Thanks for the info PuckCowboy and welcome!!!!
 
Thanks 10e! I'm not a professional videophile by any means, and Im coming from a Samsung 2493HM that I loved but was finally giving me some issues after several years. Figured Id go for an upgrade to IPS from TN and a USB 3.0 hub. If it's as least as good as the 2493HM TN panel, I will be happy :)

I will try to update this thread once I get it and if I notice anything abnormal in overall build or picture quality.
 
sad to hear these horror stories about backlight issues.
personaly i dont think it matters very much what the monitor brightness or camera exposure is in those pics, this is ~900 dollar piece of hardware,you would expect to see some quality for that money,i dont think we would see that kind of mess with 900 dollar NEC or EIZO models.

but as i understand blacklight bleed is usually caused by 3. things

1. theres some issues with diffuser what scatters the light across the panel

2. theres some issues with the layers of the whole lcd unit,maybe the backlight unit is not aligned up propely with the panel and thus creating some gaps what leak light thru

3. theres some differences in mechanical pressure,like some screws have more torque on than other ones and thus bending the panel a bit around the edges what cause problems.

i mean whats up with manufactures these days anyway,it seems that nonexisting quality control have become a de-facto standard in the industry, end of the day it dosen`t require a rocket scientist to fix these problems.

like how this manufacturing process takes place over there?
100 chinese on each side of the conveyor belt carelessly clue and screw some stuff together, and then throw "finished" product into box, while theres nobody who controls what actually goes into box?? yay

how about hiring extra 10 guys and place them BETWEEN the conveyor and the boxes, so they can turn on the monitor for few sec to see if it has any problems, and then throw the damn thing into box.
there would be lot less mess with rma-s and angry phone calls this way, why they cut corners where they shouldn't cut them?

welcome to planet stupid!

i mean dont get me wrong, i hope just as you do that its some faulty batch and newer ones will be better, but im really disappointed in the industry :mad:
 
I orded one from buy.com as well. The 24 inch. If it has serious backlight issues or dead pixels then I'll just return it.
 
Mr Spock said:
...snip...

welcome to planet stupid!
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Actually the companies are very smart. They realize that most people are not going to spend the $40 to fedex to ship back their monitor. The consumer will just keep them if it has backlight or other "minor" issues. So they can eliminate those 10 testers, save money, and make us deal with the problem. Since us dealing with the problem costs us money, not them, why not?
 
I ordered a 27 inch from buy.com for my girlfriend. They have a good return policy. I don't see alot of choices besides this monitor. It's cheaper then the NEC and Eizo ones and IMHO those monitors might be more color accurate but they are pretty bleh IRL - as everything looks washed out.. As far as quality control - well you get what you pay for the way I see it. This monitor IS cheaper then its higher class competition. It's likely on par with Dell - and many of those monitors get sent back by people on this forum as well.
 
Scoobydo said:
Actually the companies are very smart. They realize that most people are not going to spend the $40 to fedex to ship back their monitor. The consumer will just keep them if it has backlight or other "minor" issues. So they can eliminate those 10 testers, save money, and make us deal with the problem. Since us dealing with the problem costs us money, not them, why not?
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Too true. We play the panel lottery, and they play the user lottery.

The bottom line is money and that's really it.

But for Samsung, who's lost OEM deals to LG by the truckloads with high volume companies like Dell, never had Apple, and lost most of Eizo's business too, this panel "tech demo" is quite important. Poor quality and bad reputation will likely bite them in the butt.

If they can't compete there, they will have to be a helluva lot cheaper than LG to win back any business with PLS.
 
Good Point,

You would think they would at least put their best foot forward on the initial units. I remember Dell starting out will all IPS on certain modela and then switching to a panel lottery later on.

The first pics we have seen so far have a good bit of light streaming from the edge. This is known as flash lights over at AVS and it is usually caused by poor bezel fit. I have seen articals where people have improved this issue by pushing strips of a business card under the bezel. I personally think that sending it back is a better way to go, because it sends a message to the vendor. Going back to the orignal point, Samsung needs to get this right or we will never see PLS panels in other (Dell HP...) products.

If we get two or three more reports of excessive BLB and no good units, then we can pretty much throw in the towel.

What a drag
 
daveswantek said:
You would think they would at least put their best foot forward on the initial units. I remember Dell starting out will all IPS on certain modela and then switching to a panel lottery later on.
Click to expand...

That was once (Dell 2007 20" 1600x1200 - IPS/ PVA lottery).

I have seen articals where people have improved this issue by pushing strips of a business card under the bezel.
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That was about early Dell 3008s.
 
One x factor I think we're neglecting...

The ordinary, non [h]ardforum consumer doesn't look at an all black screen and cry about backlight bleeding. They typically don't know any better, and in most cases, it's barely noticeable in daily use.
 
Ocardowin said:
One x factor I think we're neglecting...

The ordinary, non [h]ardforum consumer doesn't look at an all black screen and cry about backlight bleeding. They typically don't know any better, and in most cases, it's barely noticeable in daily use.
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The typical non hardforum consumer is not buying a $900 monitor, lol.
 
alienate said:
The typical non hardforum consumer is not buying a $900 monitor, lol.
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Not true.

You can't tell me you don't know people who decide they need to buy a new tv and go out and buy a big screen tv knowing nothing about the model, its pros, cons, etc.

The same probably happens with the ACD. And the Dell. Samsung cares about that crowd.
 
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