Diablo 3: Gamer Decisions In Actuality

Blizzard claims it's to prevent hacking

they have shown that they didn't stop it from happening on WoW

same thing.
 
There's only so much they can do to encourage people to practice good personal security, since most compromises (not hacks) stem from visiting sites that have been compromised (even legitimate/reputable sites can get hijacked) or intentionally set up as traps to infect the user's computer. Spamming also generally comes from people's compromised accounts these days.
 
It'll get worse with Diablo 3, especially since they want to put real money on the line.
 
I won't disagree with you there. Here's to hoping people will care enough about their account(s) to take readily-available measures to prevent these things.
 
Ok, let's assume that you're right and that Blizzard has their servers locked down, but we'll go with your example of Joe Average going to a couple websites with phishing and malware and God knows what else on there, keyloggers and shit.

Joe Average then tries to log into Diablo 3, finds out his account has been compromised.

Since they want to do in game transactions, it's reasonable to assume that your credit card info will be stored somewhere, and now that they have access to your account, they now have access to your CC info, and they use it to buy out their own auctions (hacker puts up a couple auctions, hacks your account, then overbids on aforementioned auctions) then profits, and is never seen again.

Then what?
 
That scenario is actually more of an argument FOR offline single player and LAN play.

Offline, you don't have to worry about getting hacked at all, whether or not you intend to use the RL money auctions or not.

LAN play, enables you to still be able to play with your friends and not worry about needing to be connected to b.net and getting your account hacked and compromised.
 
Fail has a point, blizz would be doing the retarded player a service by protecting them. The point being, I shouldn't have to verify my identity or log into an account in order to play a SINGLE PLAYER GAME in the first place.

At least with D2 I was able to play the game in my deployed barracks room or tent in the sandbox.
 
Ok, let's assume that you're right and that Blizzard has their servers locked down, but we'll go with your example of Joe Average going to a couple websites with phishing and malware and God knows what else on there, keyloggers and shit.

Joe Average then tries to log into Diablo 3, finds out his account has been compromised.

Since they want to do in game transactions, it's reasonable to assume that your credit card info will be stored somewhere, and now that they have access to your account, they now have access to your CC info, and they use it to buy out their own auctions (hacker puts up a couple auctions, hacks your account, then overbids on aforementioned auctions) then profits, and is never seen again.

Then what?

I'm interested in knowing how that will work myself, since someone can be royally screwed in that scenario. The cop-out answer would be to get an authenticator to prevent that from happening but if WoW is any indication, people don't bother and get their shit stolen all the time. I'll keep an eye out for any information about that.
 
Ok, let's assume that you're right and that Blizzard has their servers locked down, but we'll go with your example of Joe Average going to a couple websites with phishing and malware and God knows what else on there, keyloggers and shit.

Joe Average then tries to log into Diablo 3, finds out his account has been compromised.

Since they want to do in game transactions, it's reasonable to assume that your credit card info will be stored somewhere, and now that they have access to your account, they now have access to your CC info, and they use it to buy out their own auctions (hacker puts up a couple auctions, hacks your account, then overbids on aforementioned auctions) then profits, and is never seen again.

Then what?

What online purchases have you ever made that didn't require you to put in your CVC (or whatever the 3 letter thing is) security code every single time you buy something, even if it stores the other info? How is it Blizzards fault that people don't keep their computer/personal info safe? How would that be any different than someone losing a bunch of money to any other source where their information is stolen? Should Blizzard somehow be held to higher standards than every single other service in the world?

Since you used the auctions example, the same hacker could do the exact same thing to someone over ebay, amazon, or any other auction site. Then what?
 
While we do not know how it will be implemented. Blizzard now does a thing with accounts where it tracks most frequently used ip's so you can use your authenticator less frequently on those ips. If they expand on this(they are already capturing the data) they can basically do what valve does with steam in regards to having to enter a code for a new ip. If they do that say on a new purchases or posts to the AH from a new ip they are in pretty good shape as that's about all you can do in regards to a compromised account before detection.
 
Should Blizzard somehow be held to higher standards than every single other service in the world?

It's for a GAME. The auction sites, ebay etc. are all for physical items, not some virtual items. So yes, if you're going to be storing credit card information for a VIDEO GAME, they should be held to a higher standard.
 
Tell me how it makes sense from a financial standpoint (aside from anti-piracy, since they explicitly stated that was not a goal of the decision) that it makes sense for them to EXCLUDE customers for no real benefit to the remaining customers?

In the case of BF3, the decision allows the programmers to focus on developing better artwork/programming that benefits people who are able to play.

Whether or not there is any benefit to the customer is debatable. Some people will look upon this as an unnecessary tether, while others will appreciate the security that these changes will bring to the game's integrity. And while I have no doubt this is designed as DRM first, it will also prevent people modifying characters locally and cheating, something which was rampant on open battle.net.

Whether or not you agree with their method of doing it, I'm sure you would prefer your games to be free of cheaters and hackers right? That's the benefit you get here.

That is true. Then they shouldn't worry about rural people not buying their products. Yet they whine about piracy and PC having low adoption rates and the need for more DRM to generate sales; when in fact they are making products that many Americans have no access to. I just wished these companies would stop crying about trying to make back production costs when they aren't even trying to reach the rural demographic. They choose the DRM and we choose whether we support it or not.

:)

To my knowledge, Blizzard has never complained about PC gaming adoption rates or piracy. In fact, they have stayed PC exclusive for so long in an era when the entire gaming industry has turned their focus squarely on consoles (although I do believe this will change with Diablo 3). There's no right and wrong in all this... they are free to choose how they do their business while we are free to support it or not, as you said.

I'll just point out that the people who are saying Wow was always online and still hacked is only half true. To my knowledge, the core gameplay systems of Wow have never been compromised. I don't think there are people running around with dupes of legendary items. I don't think there are characters who have the abilities or health or invulnerability of raid bosses when they do pvp. There's no button to generate millions of gold instantly that can devalue entire economies in one shot. All this is because the game is online only and they have the Warden client running to ensure people don't start 3rd party applications to mess with Wow when they play. It's DRM but it makes the game better for players. Still, when stupid people click on email links and get keylogged outside the game, how is Blizzard supposed to stop that? But they still do the best they can. They have dedicated customer support people who will return the account to the rightful owner if it gets hacked. They tried to increase security by coming up with authenticators. They aggressively sue gold farmers and botters and I believe they even managed to shut down some of them. And they have people monitoring game servers all the time for botters and gold spammers and what not. It might not be absolutely perfect but it's not for lack of trying.
 
Blizzard claims it's to prevent hacking

they have shown that they didn't stop it from happening on WoW

same thing.

hahaha this is so true. One of my friends used to hack WoW like fucking mad and took him months to get banned. I stopped doing BGs because of bots and queue times.
 
It's for a GAME. The auction sites, ebay etc. are all for physical items, not some virtual items. So yes, if you're going to be storing credit card information for a VIDEO GAME, they should be held to a higher standard.

Any proof to back up someone having their credit card information stolen from WoW? People might have their accounts stolen, but I have never heard of anyone having their CC number stolen. Toon stealing takes a simple hack, but I am quite convinced Blizzard has everyone's financial info on lock down. That would be all over the news is WoW subscribers had their CC numbers stolen.
 
I'm definitely buying it - the first two are some of the best games in PC history, and it's been forever waiting for the third.

It may not be ideal that you need to be online when playing, but unless you're on a plane without wifi I can't think of a gamer that ISN'T online. I hear the complaints about "what if their server goes down," but that argument is not nearly powerful enough to make me avoid what will hopefully be another AAA game from Blizzard.

I'm not really bothered by the real money model in the store, at least it legitimizes what was otherwise a shady business. I don't get why people are so up in arms about it, you don't have to use the pay market feature if you don't want to.

Here's to hoping it's another classic.
 
Whether or not you agree with their method of doing it, I'm sure you would prefer your games to be free of cheaters and hackers right? That's the benefit you get here.

Riddle me this Batman...

If I am playing a single player game not connected to any network, why do I care about cheaters and hackers?
 
Blizzard claims it's to prevent hacking

they have shown that they didn't stop it from happening on WoW

same thing.

I don't really know the specifics, but a lot of hacked items in Diablo 2 came from people somehow importing them from offline/Open into closed Battle.net. So yes, it could be a way to prevent hacking.
 
Whether or not there is any benefit to the customer is debatable. Some people will look upon this as an unnecessary tether, while others will appreciate the security that these changes will bring to the game's integrity. And while I have no doubt this is designed as DRM first, it will also prevent people modifying characters locally and cheating, something which was rampant on open battle.net.

Whether or not you agree with their method of doing it, I'm sure you would prefer your games to be free of cheaters and hackers right? That's the benefit you get here.



To my knowledge, Blizzard has never complained about PC gaming adoption rates or piracy. In fact, they have stayed PC exclusive for so long in an era when the entire gaming industry has turned their focus squarely on consoles (although I do believe this will change with Diablo 3). There's no right and wrong in all this... they are free to choose how they do their business while we are free to support it or not, as you said.

I'll just point out that the people who are saying Wow was always online and still hacked is only half true. To my knowledge, the core gameplay systems of Wow have never been compromised. I don't think there are people running around with dupes of legendary items. I don't think there are characters who have the abilities or health or invulnerability of raid bosses when they do pvp. There's no button to generate millions of gold instantly that can devalue entire economies in one shot. All this is because the game is online only and they have the Warden client running to ensure people don't start 3rd party applications to mess with Wow when they play. It's DRM but it makes the game better for players. Still, when stupid people click on email links and get keylogged outside the game, how is Blizzard supposed to stop that? But they still do the best they can. They have dedicated customer support people who will return the account to the rightful owner if it gets hacked. They tried to increase security by coming up with authenticators. They aggressively sue gold farmers and botters and I believe they even managed to shut down some of them. And they have people monitoring game servers all the time for botters and gold spammers and what not. It might not be absolutely perfect but it's not for lack of trying.


In WoW there were so many hackers with infinite gold, one shot kills in pvp and pve, flying mounts that flew underground, speed hacks where a person could mine an entire continent in minutes stealing every node from regular players, etc it's not even funny. I liked the hack where you payed them X amount of money and they would farm you legendary mounts by speed running instances. Blizzard banned 1 out of 1,000 maybe so what was the deterrent?

Blizzard's servers are cloned on the internet and you can play vanilla WoW without the expansions or any combination of them also. People pay a subscription fee to access these private servers that Blizzard will never see. The best of the best guilds in WoW use these private servers to practice on a boss before they kill it on live.

There are so many websites dedicated to programs like Glider for WoW it's ridiculous. These are the bot programs that play your character for you that are undetectable by Warden. As long as a player doesn't turn you in you're golden.

Yes Blizzard is smart enough to avoid crying about piracy as the more you cry the more curious the average Joe is in what hacks are available and how much do they cost. As long as they try to keep the game clean enough where average people aren't getting owned by hackers and complaining on the forums they are happy.
 
In WoW there were so many hackers with infinite gold, one shot kills in pvp and pve, flying mounts that flew underground, speed hacks where a person could mine an entire continent in minutes stealing every node from regular players, etc it's not even funny. I liked the hack where you payed them X amount of money and they would farm you legendary mounts by speed running instances. Blizzard banned 1 out of 1,000 maybe so what was the deterrent?

Blizzard's servers are cloned on the internet and you can play vanilla WoW without the expansions or any combination of them also. People pay a subscription fee to access these private servers that Blizzard will never see. The best of the best guilds in WoW use these private servers to practice on a boss before they kill it on live.

There are so many websites dedicated to programs like Glider for WoW it's ridiculous. These are the bot programs that play your character for you that are undetectable by Warden. As long as a player doesn't turn you in you're golden.

Yes Blizzard is smart enough to avoid crying about piracy as the more you cry the more curious the average Joe is in what hacks are available and how much do they cost. As long as they try to keep the game clean enough where average people aren't getting owned by hackers and complaining on the forums they are happy.

When wow first came out, yes there were speed hacks and other things. Since then they have cracked down big time. It has been a very long time since any of this has been an issue. The only thing that really exists now are bots which are difficult to get rid of as the programs are constantly updated, and a shit load of asians that are hired to farm gold.

As for private servers, they exist but they are emulated and pretty friggin terrible. And no, guilds don't go practice fights on private servers before they do it on live, you have no idea what you are talking about. The only practice people get on new fights is on the PTR.
 
I don't really know the specifics, but a lot of hacked items in Diablo 2 came from people somehow importing them from offline/Open into closed Battle.net. So yes, it could be a way to prevent hacking.

If you don't have specifics, then you don't know shit and are just using conjecture.

invalid.
 
If you don't have specifics, then you don't know shit and are just using conjecture.

invalid.

Roflmao, when has conjecture ever stopped anyone from flaming the shit out of this game? If we rule out conjecture, we might as well shut this forum down.
 
I've seen this too often, only for those who claim such to turn-tail on their own decision in the end, after spouting a whole hell of a lot of "not buying a game" for what ever reasons.

Money where your mouth is... but don't just vote knowing that no one will ever know. Be honest with yourself. It's, you know, one of those "psychological things".

For all those who've now claimed they're so angry and fed-up with actions such as what Blizzard are taking, that they're no longer going to be buying Diablo 3, how many are actually going to follow-through on their word? How many will just cave in the end?

I, my wife and my sister have all firmly decided to not buy it, and just play Torchlight 2. We all hope more people do the same. We don't go back on such decisions.

A man (or woman) only has/is only as good as their word. How many of you are?

Note: this thread is not to "attack" or "flame", but simply to see who's truly honest, as there have been more people here over the years that ended up going back on their tirades after writing post after post after post, that all it does is waste forum space and pollutes my damn eyeballs.

1) Yes, you will stand by your word and absolutely not be buying Diablo 3.
2) No, you will probably end-up caving in the end and going against all the ranting you did on these boards.

I will stand by my word and buy it if it's a good game. Why does a video game make you give 1/2 a shit about anything but enjoying the game?
 
He is unable to support his claim. No surprise there.

I'm at work right now so I don't have a blue post, I'll search later if I remember. Here's a good link straight off the very top of Google though. http://redvex.d2help.com/viewtopic.php?p=7973

Basically, there used to be a way to get Open characters into Closed games due to packet wizardry some how. That's how occy rings, btals etc all came into closed. Like I said, I don't understand how exactly it works, but that's how the hacked items get into the game, using SP and Open.
 
Riddle me this Batman...

If I am playing a single player game not connected to any network, why do I care about cheaters and hackers?

Of course you don't.

You know that super rare, one handed weapon that has a drop rate of 1 in 500 from hell difficulty runs of Diablo? When you have that and all other items available offline, someone will just open up a hex editor and give it to himself in 5 seconds. Then he'll find a way to bring that character online and it will affect everyone who is playing when he somehow destroys them in PVP or lands up at the top of seasonal ladders. Or perhaps he'll give himself a few billion Stones of Jordan and then import them into the online game and destroy the server economy. Hell he could even sell them for real money in the RMT AH. How about that, hack the game, get items and earn real money for it.

Of course, you still don't care about any of this. People who played online would, and Blizzard does too. Your next response is probably "so Blizzard should stop this from happening" to which I'd say that's one of the things they are trying to do with this requirement. If everyone played offline, then it would never be a problem. But since people do play online and Blizzard tries to secure the integrity of the online game experience, this is what they do. It's easier if you just consider Diablo 3 to be an online game, and if you still don't like it, you are free to skip the game I guess.

In WoW there were so many hackers with infinite gold, one shot kills in pvp and pve, flying mounts that flew underground, speed hacks where a person could mine an entire continent in minutes stealing every node from regular players, etc it's not even funny. I liked the hack where you payed them X amount of money and they would farm you legendary mounts by speed running instances. Blizzard banned 1 out of 1,000 maybe so what was the deterrent?

Blizzard's servers are cloned on the internet and you can play vanilla WoW without the expansions or any combination of them also. People pay a subscription fee to access these private servers that Blizzard will never see. The best of the best guilds in WoW use these private servers to practice on a boss before they kill it on live.

There are so many websites dedicated to programs like Glider for WoW it's ridiculous. These are the bot programs that play your character for you that are undetectable by Warden. As long as a player doesn't turn you in you're golden.

Yes Blizzard is smart enough to avoid crying about piracy as the more you cry the more curious the average Joe is in what hacks are available and how much do they cost. As long as they try to keep the game clean enough where average people aren't getting owned by hackers and complaining on the forums they are happy.

I played Wow for about 5000 hours over a period of a few years and I have to say, I never saw any of the serious hacks you talk about. Or maybe my memory fails me and I might have seen someone speedhacking or something but it was never rampant and certainly not prominent enough to remain in my memory. I do remember seeing bots though, there's no denying that. I'd report them whenever I could, and I assume they got banned after that. Infinite gold, one shot kills, flying underground and all that? Was never an issue. Maybe it was before I started or after I left.

As for private servers, I know they exist. I also know they don't even offer a fraction of the game experience that legit servers do. Less people, more hackers, strange rules, missing content, bugged content... the difference between private and Blizzard servers was massive. And top raid guilds don't practice on private servers, they work on the PTR and even before that they are invited by Blizzard to test the tuning of raid encounters.

But for a moment, let's pretend everything you said is true and Wow is completely compromised. What exactly are you trying to prove? That because their other online only game is not secure, and because hacking/cheating have been around forever, they shouldn't even fucking try to combat it anymore? Is that your premise? What should they do? I'm sure if you showed up at their door with a better solution they'd hire you on the spot.
 
While I would like a single player option, I'm going to be playing this game online, so this is most likely a purchase for me.
 
In WoW there were so many hackers with infinite gold, one shot kills in pvp and pve, flying mounts that flew underground, speed hacks where a person could mine an entire continent in minutes stealing every node from regular players, etc it's not even funny. I liked the hack where you payed them X amount of money and they would farm you legendary mounts by speed running instances. Blizzard banned 1 out of 1,000 maybe so what was the deterrent?

Blizzard's servers are cloned on the internet and you can play vanilla WoW without the expansions or any combination of them also. People pay a subscription fee to access these private servers that Blizzard will never see. The best of the best guilds in WoW use these private servers to practice on a boss before they kill it on live.

There are so many websites dedicated to programs like Glider for WoW it's ridiculous. These are the bot programs that play your character for you that are undetectable by Warden. As long as a player doesn't turn you in you're golden.

Yes Blizzard is smart enough to avoid crying about piracy as the more you cry the more curious the average Joe is in what hacks are available and how much do they cost. As long as they try to keep the game clean enough where average people aren't getting owned by hackers and complaining on the forums they are happy.

What's it like to still live in 2005?

Because practically none of those issues, save for bots (which every MMO has) exist these days.
 
Of course you don't [care].

You know that super rare, ...*snip - doesn't matter*....People who played online would, and Blizzard does too. .... But since people do play online and Blizzard tries to secure the integrity of the online game experience, this is what they do. It's easier if you just consider Diablo 3 to be an online game, and if you still don't like it, you are free to skip the game I guess.

When considering the single-player aspect of the game, no I absolutely do not care about what happens online because it is not relevant to the game. That's the whole point of a single player mode, so I can play without having to worry about retards other than myself having an impact on my gaming experience.

Blizz can stop it by adding a "single player only" option which does not allow you to transfer a character online, and thus does not require an internet connection to play. They could just make a single player mode fully online that can be migrated to multi-player modes (hosted on the same servers too).

You are right in that it is easier to think of it as an online-only game, and makes it easier to pass on. I was a little more unhappy about it, but thinking about it in that regard makes the loss pretty irrelevant.
 
Kind of uneasy about the real money AH, but it's Blizzard.. they're figure out a way to make it work without it being gamebreaking.
 
I havent seen this brought up but i only read like 8 of the 10 pages....what happens when Bliz shuts the servers off? I mean you bought the game...or did you just license it for as long as they decided to keep the power on?
 
I havent seen this brought up but i only read like 8 of the 10 pages....what happens when Bliz shuts the servers off? I mean you bought the game...or did you just license it for as long as they decided to keep the power on?

Blizzard likely won't ever go out of business, but then again, they said the same thing about Acclaim.

However, there is a vast difference between Blizzard and Acclaim.
 
I'm at work right now so I don't have a blue post, I'll search later if I remember. Here's a good link straight off the very top of Google though. http://redvex.d2help.com/viewtopic.php?p=7973

Basically, there used to be a way to get Open characters into Closed games due to packet wizardry some how. That's how occy rings, btals etc all came into closed. Like I said, I don't understand how exactly it works, but that's how the hacked items get into the game, using SP and Open.

this is a fact
 
I havent seen this brought up but i only read like 8 of the 10 pages....what happens when Bliz shuts the servers off? I mean you bought the game...or did you just license it for as long as they decided to keep the power on?

Considering we're still able to play diablo 2 and starcraft on b.net, games that are 11 and 13 years old. I really don't think it will be an issue.

However if for some reason they ended up taking the servers down, I'm sure they would release some sort of single player patch.

edit: I'm glad there's no single player for people to exploit. Playing a game like this alone, is a travesty anways.
 
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