Why are so many "SFF" matx and itx cases so big?

obug

Limp Gawd
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Dec 9, 2010
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A little background will probably help people understand where I'm coming from with this. I'm looking to build a new system for typical everyday tasks and some scientific computation (mostly statistics). Modern processors are now fast enough that operations on even my largest datasets are completed in a few minutes. IGPs are also good enough that I have no need for a discrete GPU.

I've been using an Antec Sonata case since 2004. It's made sense back then, but today it's just a waste of space for my needs. With the release of Sandybridge and the plethora of itx and matx boards available, I decided it was time for me to switch to something smaller.

One requirement for me is that I have a well made and decent looking case.

I'm really surprised at the size of many "small form factor" cases. Take a look at what I made on Sized Up. The V354 is not that much smaller than the Sonata. The Q11 is smaller than the Sonata, but is hardly a small case. The TJ08E (not on that page) is smaller than the Sonata but not by much, and I think the benefits of using an ATX MB (in the Sonata) would far exceed the benefits of the small space savings from the TJ08E. The only case that is actually small is the SG05.

Why are these cases so big? Are there really so many people who need a ATX psu and long graphics card in these "SFF" systems? Are the only people who buy these cases gamers and graphics professionals? Considering how much power consumption has dropped in the last few years, do people really need to put 500W+ PSUs in these cases?

Are the managers at companies like Lian Li thinking "Average Joe's are going to just buy a built system from a major manufacturer. The people who buy these systems are hardcore computer people, so let's just make them big so they can fit all their stuff in there and overclock to 10Ghz!"

Can somebody explain to me why these cases are so big?
 
Utility value.

While I do agree that 500+W PSU doesn't make any sense even for guys running one graphics card, going mATX barely says anything about building a minimalist system. I think I am fine with the current mATX boxes though they could always manage their spaces better.

Try ITX.
 
The answer is that you are not the target audience for those cases. Those cases are targeted at people who want the stability, silence, cost, efficiency, etc. of ATX PSUs and also want a full size GPU for calculations (highly parallel processes) or gaming.

The cases targeted at you are the pc-q09, Habey server cases, Aopen S100, antec ISK, etc. Get one of those and you might find that even those are overkill for your needs and all you need is a pen and paper to do science and statistics :). Honestly, you are right that those cases are large and probably don't reflect the true need of the person purchasing them, but it seems like most desktop computers don't accurately reflect needs, but reflect availability and wants.

Aside:my dream computer case is a pc-q07 (11L) with two fans set-up similar to the q08. Unfortunately, it's not available because a larger case like the q08 is small enough to interest people like me as well as people who want tons of storage. So remember that cost effectiveness plays a large role in case design and most people are willing to sacrifice a little here and there.
 
Look at ITX cases and motherboards. ;)

I have. Cases like the Q08 and Q11 are still big. They are quite a bit smaller than ATX cases, but I don't see them as small in the literal sense of the word.
 
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or even smaller:

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The reason cases like these are so few and far between is that they're a niche of the SFF crowd. You lose a lot of flexibility when you start getting to the bare minimum sizes.
 
Utility value.

While I do agree that 500+W PSU doesn't make any sense even for guys running one graphics card, going mATX barely says anything about building a minimalist system. I think I am fine with the current mATX boxes though they could always manage their spaces better.

Try ITX.

This is how I see it. Sure people want to use mATX or ITX motherboards, but still want it to build a full-blown gaming machine so companies design boxes to accommodate as such. The OP is going to have a look a lot harder, not just common etailers like Newegg, to find the tiny no-nonsense cases he's looking for.
 
The answer is that you are not the target audience for those cases. Those cases are targeted at people who want the stability, silence, cost, efficiency, etc. of ATX PSUs and also want a full size GPU for calculations (highly parallel processes) or gaming.

Aside:my dream computer case is a pc-q07 (11L) with two fans set-up similar to the q08. Unfortunately, it's not available because a larger case like the q08 is small enough to interest people like me as well as people who want tons of storage. So remember that cost effectiveness plays a large role in case design and most people are willing to sacrifice a little here and there.

I guess what surprises me the most is that there is a big enough customer base to support the market for these plus sized SFF cases. Are there really that many people who want to stuff everything into an ITX case? Do people really see that much of a size advantage with MATX in comparison to ATX? Obviously there are enough people to buy these cases. Otherwise companies like Lian Li wouldn't make the products that they do. I just have to wrap my head around that point.

I like the Q07 a lot as well.

The cases targeted at you are the pc-q09, Habey server cases, Aopen S100, antec ISK, etc. Get one of those and you might find that even those are overkill for your needs and all you need is a pen and paper to do science and statistics :).

If I did all my statistical calculations on paper I'd end up with a stack of papers bigger than an EATX case :)

The OP is going to have a look a lot harder, not just common etailers like Newegg, to find the tiny no-nonsense cases he's looking for.

Yeah, I've been looking around. I just haven't found the right mix of form and function just yet. I'd like room for two drives (one SSD and one 3.5 HDD) and many small cases are too small for that. The SSD is probably total overkill for my needs.
 
There are many small cases for ITX, but once you look at a case that supports discrete GPUs they get bigger. Would I like a Tiny HTPC from Lian Li,? Sure I would, but I think Lian Li really wants to get that power user part of the market that does use a powerful GPU and thus needs a powerful PSU. I recently replaced my PC-60 with a v352, and finally settled on a Q11. It is one of the smallest cased that can fit a reasonably sized GPU.

I believe the Q09 is their smallest case:
http://www.lian-li.com/v2/en/product/product06.php?pr_index=414&cl_index=1&sc_index=25&ss_index=64

It's safe to say that Lian Li doesn't offer what you want but there are tiny cases a plenty offered for HTPC use.
 
I am very happy with the size of the PC-Q11 considering all the stuff I have in it. Any smaller and my hardware wouldn't fit.

I'd be OK with a smaller case if we get really good power supplies in smaller sizes. Also high-end GPUs need to start shrinking.
 
I like the Q07 a lot as well.

I like mine a whole lot. If you're not going to use a dedicated GPU, then it fits what you are wanting. And its small enough to fit into a backpack ( I did test fit mine for travelling back to the States from Iraq.) I have dual drives in mine with a dedicated GPU, but I had to fab new mounts and used 2 laptop size drives.
 
There are some cases by Inwin that are small but the power supply restricts some cpu options. I don't think it's illogical to believe that the smaller the case the more power limitations you'll run into.

Some itx cases are big because they need to support a dedicated video card, then the dedicated video cards needs a good power supply,ventilation and cooling and so on and all of this adds to the size. There are itx gaming cases which are slightly smaller than a matx tower and non-gaming cases which focuses on minimizing the size more suitable for a compact work or htpc machine.

I personally use the q08 because it's the best option to have a full sized video card for gaming. I'm building another system for my friend purely for work so I chose the smallest size case I could find available and the most energy efficient components to keep everything cool and have it work within the power supply limitation of 160w.

There are small itx cases if you look around but it doesn't seem like the top brands such as Lian Li , corsair, antec,silverstone, coolermaster etc have any really small cases. You'll probably have to look around and run into brands you've rarely ever seen mentioned to find a nice compact case; they do exist you just have to look harder.
 
Yes the SG05 is one of the few really small cases, but that does depend on your needs a lot.
And the SG05 isn't even that efficient with the volume...

If I would give up on the ODD and the 3,5'' Drive (which isn't that hard for many SFF people) I could have a case like that:

- same size as the SG05/06
- two 2,5'' Drives (SSD/HDD)
- atx PSU
- enough space for a reference design GTX 580
- enough space for a big cooler such as the Mugen 2

Here is a picture... ;)
...this isn't a GTX 580 but it does fit.

You could even reduce the footprint by putting the case on the front and making one of the sides the new one. That would be a cute little tower :eek:
...and with all I need.

Here is my Q07 build. Either you have enough PSU to power something you can't cool or (external PSU use) you can have enough heatsink to cool something you cant power. Still love the Q07:)
 
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I'm not sure if there are any in the picture but there would be enough space to mount them somewhere... if Silverstone where to design the SG09 like that I'm sure they could manege.
 
I guess what surprises me the most is that there is a big enough customer base to support the market for these plus sized SFF cases. Are there really that many people who want to stuff everything into an ITX case? Do people really see that much of a size advantage with MATX in comparison to ATX? Obviously there are enough people to buy these cases. Otherwise companies like Lian Li wouldn't make the products that they do. I just have to wrap my head around that point.

You know what? I can't understand why people buy ginormous SUV/crossovers, but obviously they do.

I guess with big SFF, many people are coming from ATX mid-towers (or even big full tower ATX) and even a normal mATX tower looks small to them.
 
You know, I was looking at some ITX cases to respond to another thread and I think that many of these "issues" with case choice comes down to user expectations. If you go to Newegg and look at the reviews for the Apex MI-008, everyone gripes about the case ventilation. Personally, I like the looks of the case, it's portable and cheap. It can house a modest system for HTPC or (some) gaming duties. The build quality is not stellar, but I've used this case for many builds (65W and lower). Unfortunately, most people want to move their powerhouse ATX or mATX systems into this form factor. IMO, ITX hasn't reached the same maturity level as mATX to support this (multiple power phases for sustained overclocking, etc.). Add to this the size of standard components, and it's not too difficult to understand why there isn't much market demand (yet) for ITX/DTX systems.

It's possible to build a powerful ITX system (i.e. smaller than a Sugo SG05), but you have to be realistic in your component choice, inventive in component placement (or posssess a modder's spirit), or figure out a way to change the basic laws of physics... :D
 
Case manufacturers catering for standard-sized components produce larger cases than they would have if the Desktop PC industry had adopted notebook-sized components and flat mounting orientation options.

Since we're not there yet, there is currently very little choice. I think if SFF case manufacturers start limiting their component choices more towards slim- and mini- and micro- versions of components where available then we'll start seeing more compact SFF systems.

Problem is when the user needs big CPU and GPU power and accordingly needs a large PSU. That is a huge physical bulk that is difficult or impossible to get around.
 
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