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Diablo 3: Gamer Decisions In Actuality
- Thread starter Slachtbeest
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Shalafi
Fully [H]
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I said nothing in it about moral footing.
You're simply unable to comprehend metaphors correctly.
300 = the few of us who rail against these changes that further erode our PC gaming platform and hobby, we happen to understand how these changes are BAD for PC gaming as a whole and we are willing to say something about it, as well as take further action such as voting with our wallets by not buying Shit in a Box AAA title that comes out.
1 million Persians = the rest of the gaming population who preorders, stands in line, and Day Ones all the shit in the box and gobbles up DLC like a bag of chips from the vending machine without stopping to realize the implications of how their actions contribute to the erosion of the PC gaming platform and our hobby in general.
I'm pretty sure I could take a dump in a box, slap Diablo 3, Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3, or Battlefield 3 on it, and sell millions.
Well fine, since you insist.
Madness?? THIS IS SPARTAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Shalafi
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So DLC is good for gamers?
So $60 PC price tags are good for gamers?
So always connected is good for gamers?
So Day 1 DLC is good for gamers?
So not having dedicated servers in game is good for gamers?
So map packs are good for gamers?
So having 50 different DD services each with their own online activation, social community, and God knows what else is good for gamers?
So not having offline mode is good for gamers?
So consolization is good for gamers?
_PixelNinja
[H]ard|Gawd
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People are having the "me me me attitude" either side of the fence...
Stop dodging, you're grouping everyone else that disagrees with you into one. What you've been saying, and what you've been reiterating time and time again is that anyone who disagrees with you is a sheep, or misinformed, or is the culprit to ruining "your" hobby. I've seen enough to make judgement.. It's fine to have an opinion, it's not fine when you impose it on others.
_PixelNinja
[H]ard|Gawd
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Shalafi
Fully [H]
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Explains so much as to why they are dumbing it down.
That's GOOD for PC gamers like some people are trying to say.
DAY ONE BUY!!
No shit, that's why I probably will play Torchlight 2 instead. I own the first game and it was excellent.
I do not like buying games that erode our PC gaming hobby.
Speculation upon speculation. Let's just wait for the official numbers?
If you guys aren't going to buy it, the OP should put a list of [H] members who aren't, and who will buy it.
Then we should tally to see who actually did and didn't buy it when it ships.
I know it will be easy to lie, but would be fun to see.
If you guys aren't going to buy it, the OP should put a list of [H] members who aren't, and who will buy it.
Then we should tally to see who actually did and didn't buy it when it ships.
I know it will be easy to lie, but would be fun to see.
D
Deleted member 174368
Guest
Explains so much as to why they are dumbing it down.
What exactly are they dumbing down?
Keep in mind removing potion chugging, town portals and assigning attributes isn't "dumbing down", just fixing problems that were highly prevalent in Diablo 2.
Really? Just wow. Removing all customization of your characters is 'improving' the game?
Really? Just wow. Removing all customization of your characters is 'improving' the game?
That I can agree to, I found that probably the dumbest thing Blizzard could do with Diablo. I loved the customization in stats that you could have in Diablo 2. Back then when there wern't cookie cutter builds in D2 Classic... those were the best days cause you would be a PvP phenom and nobody knew your build.
D
Deleted member 174368
Guest
Really? Just wow. Removing all customization of your characters is 'improving' the game?
Be completely honest: How many times did you beat the game in Hell difficulty without a cookie cutter build?
4-5 times at least. That has nothing to do with it, any build could go through Hell, it's not my fault you didn't feel like doing anything other then a Meteorb sorceress or w/e you played.
Cookie cutter is an extremely vague term, when you can farm items to make ANY build viable.
Here are the classes I've made it through hell on:
Assassin:
Kicker
Martial Arts
Barbarian: (Didn't care for them tbh)
Throwbarb
Whirlwind
Concentration or w/e it was
Amazon:
LF javazon
Bowzon
Sorceress:
Hydra/Frozen Orb
Charged Boltress/Frozen Orb
Tri Elemental(Orb, Thunderstorm, Meteor
Meteorb
Nova Sorc
Blizzard
Necro:
Summons
Poison/Bone
Almost made it through on a curse necro, but I lost my saved game for it as I entered hell.
Druid: (Again I didn't care for this class)
Feral
Paladin:
Zeal
Vengeance
This was all played in single player with self found, or traded goods from legit players. I have played through Hell on each of the patches, aside from 1.08, which wasn't even around very long. My favorite patch would be 1.09b, since that is where I did most of my playing, and leveling to 99.
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D
Deleted member 174368
Guest
Uh, sure.
My point is all the cookie cutter builds were far more effective at clearing the game than whatever an uninformed player could come up with, which led to, sometimes, impossible to defeat bosses or instant deaths in certain areas. In fact, before they even added synergy there was absolutely no reason to even invest more than 1 point in earlier skills, but most people didn't know this. And the fact that you couldn't even respec until a recent patch made it all worse. I guess this is cool if you enjoyed having Duriel be a forced character re-roll.
And maybe that is exactly what you want, and there's nothing wrong with that, but it is a pretty blatant oversight when you want to make your game fun to play and not a spreadsheet exercise. You have to learn the difference between a developer changing the way skills behave because it just didn't work as intended previously and a developer dumbing down the game.
For example, which would you say is the "dumbed down game": a boss that is actually challenging to fight and having to use all your skills to survive (of course we haven't played D3, but that is the idea based on dev interviews), or a damage sink where the only strategy is "stock up on 50 super healing potions, hold left click, occasionally right-click"? Because the latter is literally all the bosses in Diablo 2.
My point is all the cookie cutter builds were far more effective at clearing the game than whatever an uninformed player could come up with, which led to, sometimes, impossible to defeat bosses or instant deaths in certain areas. In fact, before they even added synergy there was absolutely no reason to even invest more than 1 point in earlier skills, but most people didn't know this. And the fact that you couldn't even respec until a recent patch made it all worse. I guess this is cool if you enjoyed having Duriel be a forced character re-roll.
And maybe that is exactly what you want, and there's nothing wrong with that, but it is a pretty blatant oversight when you want to make your game fun to play and not a spreadsheet exercise. You have to learn the difference between a developer changing the way skills behave because it just didn't work as intended previously and a developer dumbing down the game.
For example, which would you say is the "dumbed down game": a boss that is actually challenging to fight and having to use all your skills to survive (of course we haven't played D3, but that is the idea based on dev interviews), or a damage sink where the only strategy is "stock up on 50 super healing potions, hold left click, occasionally right-click"? Because the latter is literally all the bosses in Diablo 2.
Parmenides
Supreme [H]ardness
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I thought everyone knew that there are very few level 1 skills that you should spend on, while often times, it was best to wait for the later skills.
So instead of learning to play better, you'd rather have them make the damn game easier, just to cover for your failings. I don't even think you've played Diablo lately. There is more to fights then "spamming right click and left clicking". If you want an easy game, go play WoW, or hello kitty online or something.
Never once have I had to reroll after not being able to defeat duriel, not with a curse necromancer, or a nove sorc.
Never once have I had to reroll after not being able to defeat duriel, not with a curse necromancer, or a nove sorc.
D
Deleted member 174368
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I don't think you understood my post, because I never once said or implied that they should make the game easier. Besides, let's not pretend Diablo 2 is a difficult game; just an exceedingly tedious one.
Yoshiyuki Blade
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A number of those complaints have a positive reason behind them. I assume you already know what they are, but do know the "good" reason behind always online mode? Hell, do you know the "good" reason behind consolization?
I'm not necessarily in favor for all of these perceived "bad" things, but taking the step back to understanding both the good and bad reasons behind each decision is what matters.
FrozenLiquidity
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I can say with assurance that I do not know any "good" reason behind consolization. Are you saying that you do? Care to enlighten the rest of us?
Yoshiyuki Blade
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I can say with assurance that I do not know any "good" reason behind consolization. Are you saying that you do? Care to enlighten the rest of us?
It get's more gamers gaming
I'm sure most of us will simply give the middle finger to all the casual/mainstream crowd, but I think that kind of segregated attitude is bad for gaming in general. Consoles were never really a bad thing IMO, but they were the platform of choice for the growing market over the decades. I personally dislike the direction gaming is going in various areas (including "consolization" which is more like "mainstreaming" to be appropriate), but understanding the changing times, and not clinging to a "grandfather" attitude of what gaming used to be or should be, is what I value more.
E-sports is another example, As a growing teen, it was something to scoff at and I thought "gaming should be about fun and not money!!". Now, I follow the SC2 pro gaming scene regularly and it's exciting.
And now we're discussing online-only and sanctioned RLM transactions. Repulsive for some, yes. But when looking at what benefits there are to be had, you can weigh your personal opinions accordingly. You just have to see and understand the benefits first.
People complain like this is something new.
I don't see 4-5 builds in that list that wouldn't qualify as cookie-cutter during one patch or another. Throwbarb and curse necro are about it.
The having to place points into abilities was dumb and caused people not to use skills because they already invested in others. Now you always have a larger number of skills than skill slots and will have to pick which skills you want active as well as the modifier to go with it. It removes the reluctance to try new skills and makes you come up with skill&modifier groupings that work well together (somewhat like guildwars).
It get's more gamers gaming
This isn't really a good thing. As more people get into gaming, the voice of people who are not casual gamers has been suppressed, and we've ended up with an even less innovative set of franchises than we had 10 years ago. Mainstream games are becoming too dumbed down because of this.
Wizardhawk
Limp Gawd
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This.
Also, the whole runes system for skills and having to choose which skills to use should offer plenty of customization to your character. Others have said it, but D2 stat assignment was not character customization. All it was was "str for eq, dex for eq, rest in vit" yaaaaaaaay customization.
It also leaves NOTHING to differentiate characters. Diablo II for me was all about building a cool character. So, without attributes or skills to customize, what's left? Name and Items. Cool.
I have absolutely no problem with this.
To each their own, I guess... It's just depressing seeing the things that made D2 great (to me) being removed.
Rofl-Mic-Lofl
For Whom The Bell Trolls
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Why are you making stuff up so you can nerdrage?
http://pc.ign.com/articles/118/1185753p1.html
You no longer do anything besides pick from the same skills as everyone else. That's not customization.
Just because so many builds are viable doesn't mean that they are cookie cutter.
Rofl-Mic-Lofl
For Whom The Bell Trolls
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You completely ignored the main point of the article. Ok?
Aside from proving old school gamer cred, is there any reason to lament the loss of stat distribution or permanent, obtuse skill leveling?
Maybe it makes me a casual gaming piece of shit, but no, I don't want to sit there juggling 5 stats per level. That shit wasn't fun. It was a chore. God help any sucker who didn't pull a guide online that detailed what STR stat a necro needs to wear the right armor at certain points in the game.
I feel the same way about the old skill progression system. Maybe there's people out there who appreciated spending 10 hours with a character only to realize they'd completely fucked the skill points and were stuck with something weak and gimpy. I'm definitely not one of them.
Building a character should be fun, not frustrating. This is especially true in a game like Diablo that's not really about character creation. It's about clicking 300x a minute and killing hundreds of monsters and gathering tons of loot. If my build stops being fun, I want to be able to change it without nuking that character and starting over from the beginning.
The joy in building a character is finding the skills and gear that work together best, and a system that encourages that sort of experimentation is superior to one that punishes the player for getting something wrong.
Maybe it makes me a casual gaming piece of shit, but no, I don't want to sit there juggling 5 stats per level. That shit wasn't fun. It was a chore. God help any sucker who didn't pull a guide online that detailed what STR stat a necro needs to wear the right armor at certain points in the game.
I feel the same way about the old skill progression system. Maybe there's people out there who appreciated spending 10 hours with a character only to realize they'd completely fucked the skill points and were stuck with something weak and gimpy. I'm definitely not one of them.
Building a character should be fun, not frustrating. This is especially true in a game like Diablo that's not really about character creation. It's about clicking 300x a minute and killing hundreds of monsters and gathering tons of loot. If my build stops being fun, I want to be able to change it without nuking that character and starting over from the beginning.
The joy in building a character is finding the skills and gear that work together best, and a system that encourages that sort of experimentation is superior to one that punishes the player for getting something wrong.