New Driver game to require constant internet connnection.

Climber said:
I doubt that be remotely true. I would like to see some facts backing this up because EA and every other publishers spent seem to had any problem selling dlc on steam prior to crysis 2 being pulled.

Before crysis 2 publishers and indie developers praised valve on their transparency, ease of content delivery, and low asking prices. Until Valve releases a statement we have no idea what happened to cause the rift unless your willing to buy EA's PR statements as fact.
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Unless you're going to claim EA is blatantly lying it is all we have to go on. The FACT that Crysis 2 was pulled after DLC was released and the FACT that DA2 was pulled right after the newest DLC was released paints a pretty clear picture though. From the sounds of it the policy change happened not long before Crysis 2 was pulled, which explains why no one else had problems prior to that and explains why other titles that use a similar system and have stopped getting new content (say Mass Effect 2) haven't been pulled.
 
I guess that is all we can go on. But conflicting reports from EA doesn't really give me much assurance that they don't share some blame. I'm going to assume valve stuck by their guns and were dogmatic about not making changes to accommodate EA either due to restrictions in how Steam works or a financial conflict.

I may be wrong but I'm siding with steam on this one but who knows.
 
I remember one of the early games in the Driver series had no DRM at all. You didn't even need the disc to be in the computer. Sorta sucks where the series has gone.
 
_PixelNinja said:
I think we can say at this point that Ubisoft have lost it:

"Ubisoft: our DRM “is a success"
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They obviously haven't even done a cursory visit of um...certain corners to see how laughably wrong that statement is. Really. I'm not into that scene and even I easily know better than that and with very little effort.


This blatant self sabotage and insanity/stupidity from them convinces me now more than ever that Ubisoft really wants to get off the PC entirely and the only thing this is going to "succeed" in doing is costing them sales which in turn will of course give them the excuse to get out. "Piracy and low sales, not worth it" will basically be their sign off on the subject.


And I saw the oft repeated stupid apologist talking point earlier yet again and I'll shoot it down yet again:

It doesn't matter how good your Internet is. It matters what's happening to them on the other side. If they have a fart happen the wrong way, you can have supreme FIOS and it doesn't count for diddly squat.

Before we even get into the principle of the thing.
 
Guys, don't worry. If you don't want invasive DRM you can always just pirate it.
 
Q-BZ said:
They obviously haven't even done a cursory visit of um...certain corners to see how laughably wrong that statement is. Really. I'm not into that scene and even I easily know better than that and with very little effort.
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I'm actually mixed on this statement. In a sense they are right, this is the only DRM solution so far out there that has had some meaningful impact in preventing PC piracy, in the form of delays. And some titles employing this, HAWX 2 for instance, have actually not been bypassed to my knowledge.
 
ScretHate said:
Guys, don't worry. If you don't want invasive DRM you can always just pirate it.
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I prefer to just let the game slide off the radar like I did with AC2. Not worth buying, not worth playing, not worth the bandwidth. In short, I would rather reject the product totally in situations like this.
 
I love the way they think their DRM is a success considering the auth servers have been DDOS in the past causing outages for their customers.

Obviously part of something being a success for ubisoft has absolutely nothing to do with their customers ability to play their games, it's disgusting.
 
ScretHate said:
Guys, don't worry. If you don't want invasive DRM you can always just pirate it.
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I hate people like you. "Hey I don't like what this company is doing so I'm going to take their product anyway". YOU ADD TO THE FUCKING PROBLEM YOU ARE ARE THE MOTHER FUCKING PROBLEM!
 
Derangel said:
I hate people like you. "Hey I don't like what this company is doing so I'm going to take their product anyway". YOU ADD TO THE FUCKING PROBLEM YOU ARE ARE THE MOTHER FUCKING PROBLEM!
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I hate people who shout a lot but don't say anything.
 
My recommendation, and what I do personally, is refuse to buy any game with this DRM, but buy any Ubisoft game you would like to play that doesn't have it. While their execs are apparently not all that bright they will eventually do some pattern recognition and say "Hang on, we seem to sell a lot more units with the less invasive DRM... Maybe we should try that more."

It is for that reason I own Assassin's Creed Brotherhood but not AC2. I'm ok with an "activate once" system, heck Steam works like that, I'm not ok with "always online." So I'll give them money for the ones they make with DRM I'm ok with (and I want to play the game), but pass on the rest.
 
Derangel said:
I hate people like you. "Hey I don't like what this company is doing so I'm going to take their product anyway". YOU ADD TO THE FUCKING PROBLEM YOU ARE ARE THE MOTHER FUCKING PROBLEM!
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I actually support it.

DRM like this has to go away, gamers can do that one of two ways. Either publishers can listen to customers concerns and remove it voluntarily (which hasn't worked) OR consumers can pirate this kind of media in greater and greater quantities until it's no longer viable for that company to operate with its current policies and either remove DRM from the game or go bust and create a space in the market for other, better developers and publishers to take their place.

Actually what encourages DRM like this is complacent customers who spend their money with these companies in the first place, every person that buys a game with this kind of DRM is supporting further use of this kind of DRM. I blame them people, they are the problem.

Spam is a good analogy here, I don't really blame spam on spammers like most people do, I blame spam on people who open spam. No one would spend resources on spamming if spamming didn't work, spam works because stupid people open spam, the root cause of spam is that stupid people cause a market for it. If no one bought games with harsh DRM then harsh DRM would go away.

Buy GOOD games, support GOOD developers, they deserve it.
 
PrincessFrosty said:
I actually support it.

DRM like this has to go away, gamers can do that one of two ways. Either publishers can listen to customers concerns and remove it voluntarily (which hasn't worked) OR consumers can pirate this kind of media in greater and greater quantities until it's no longer viable for that company to operate with its current policies and either remove DRM from the game or go bust and create a space in the market for other, better developers and publishers to take their place.

Actually what encourages DRM like this is complacent customers who spend their money with these companies in the first place, every person that buys a game with this kind of DRM is supporting further use of this kind of DRM. I blame them people, they are the problem.

Spam is a good analogy here, I don't really blame spam on spammers like most people do, I blame spam on people who open spam. No one would spend resources on spamming if spamming didn't work, spam works because stupid people open spam, the root cause of spam is that stupid people cause a market for it. If no one bought games with harsh DRM then harsh DRM would go away.

Buy GOOD games, support GOOD developers, they deserve it.
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I support people not buying games and telling companies why they're not buying. Pirating does nothing but add to the problem and kill any message that could be sent simply by not buying or play the game or even getting it on another platform. Mass piracy will only cause MORE DRM or out right kill the entire market. It won't make one company leave it will make them ALL leave.

Your spam analogy is correct, but it doesn't collate to piracy. Piracy serves as a convent scapegoat to hide what studios are really trying to stop (the used market), but if piracy becomes so bad it's impossible to make money on the platform it's going to make it worst for everyone that plays core games on the PC. You're looking at a very small picture and ignoring the large one surrounding it.
 
The irony is that this DRM would be far less annoying if it weren't for the crusaders who DDoS the servers into the stone age.
 
Derangel said:
I support people not buying games and telling companies why they're not buying. Pirating does nothing but add to the problem and kill any message that could be sent simply by not buying or play the game or even getting it on another platform. Mass piracy will only cause MORE DRM or out right kill the entire market. It won't make one company leave it will make them ALL leave.

Your spam analogy is correct, but it doesn't collate to piracy. Piracy serves as a convent scapegoat to hide what studios are really trying to stop (the used market), but if piracy becomes so bad it's impossible to make money on the platform it's going to make it worst for everyone that plays core games on the PC. You're looking at a very small picture and ignoring the large one surrounding it.
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Yeah, and its not like the DRM can't get worse from here. If they feel they need to push DRM even further they could start making it very hard to play games. I support the "dont like the DRM, dont buy it" stance, though I think there's enough people who will suck it up and buy it anyway for it to not make a huge difference to their bottom line.
 
I disagree, you cannot kill a market where there is a demand for something, you can only kill specific businesses inside the market. If a business goes bust it leaves a gap in the market for someone to build a better product and succeed where the previous businesses failed.

The fewer businesses inside a market the easier it is for any new start up to succeed, some of them new businesses will be just as lousy and will also fail but some will better and learn how to adapt and they will go on to produce the kind of games that gamers want to buy.
 
PrincessFrosty said:
I disagree, you cannot kill a market where there is a demand for something, you can only kill specific businesses inside the market. If a business goes bust it leaves a gap in the market for someone to build a better product and succeed where the previous businesses failed.

The fewer businesses inside a market the easier it is for any new start up to succeed, some of them new businesses will be just as lousy and will also fail but some will better and learn how to adapt and they will go on to produce the kind of games that gamers want to buy.
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Actually you can kill an entire market. Well maybe not the entire market, but all those big games people like. Remember Ubi, EA, Activsion, and so on all the big publishers are controlled by investors. What do you think will happen if investors start seeing the PC not making them any money anymore? They're going to force all of those companies to stop supporting the platform. I love indie titles, but they're not enough and even they would probably start focusing more on consoles.

Plague_Injected said:
Broken POS games wrapped in broken POS DRM.

Fuck Ubisoft.
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So you've played the game to be able to call it bad and broken?
 
Derangel said:
I support people not buying games and telling companies why they're not buying.
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People not buying games as a solution to DRM is kind of like people not using email as a solution to stopping spam. It's not a realistic solution, gamers are going to game and people are going to email, there's just too much demand for it.

In an ideal world we'd all boycott something, sales would crash, the point would be made and the problem would be corrected. It's been tried and it doesn't work, people want to play games and they'll settle for putting up with shit rather than having nothing at all.

Piracy solves that problem, it flips the power from developers saying:

"you HAVE to put up with this shit to play our games"

to the gamers who can say:

"we'll pirate almost everything without exception and then we'll pick through the best bits and decide what is worth paying for and if you meet our criteria then we'll pay"

Which of those 2 systems produces better games do you think? ;)
 
Derangel said:
So you've played the game to be able to call it bad and broken?
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Yes. I have told you time and time again I am from the future. :cool:

...But I did say "games", meaning Ubisoft games in general...not Driver specifically. The last few Ubi titles I've bought on PC (except a well-patched-up AC2) have all given me endless trouble from random freezes/crashes to corrupted save files, to no longer recognising keyboards, to stupid shit like missiles continously firing without any input from me.

Judging on Ubi's current form I'm not predicting Driver to be any different in this regard. It should be noted that Ubi's latest game (Call of Juarez: The Cartel) is reviewing fairly weakly, chiefly due to bugs and glitches. They just never seem to test this shit before they release anything.
 
PrincessFrosty said:
People not buying games as a solution to DRM is kind of like people not using email as a solution to stopping spam. It's not a realistic solution, gamers are going to game and people are going to email, there's just too much demand for it.

In an ideal world we'd all boycott something, sales would crash, the point would be made and the problem would be corrected. It's been tried and it doesn't work, people want to play games and they'll settle for putting up with shit rather than having nothing at all.

Piracy solves that problem, it flips the power from developers saying:

"you HAVE to put up with this shit to play our games"

to the gamers who can say:

"we'll pirate almost everything without exception and then we'll pick through the best bits and decide what is worth paying for and if you meet our criteria then we'll pay"

Which of those 2 systems produces better games do you think? ;)
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Neither because you're too idealistic. Piracy solves nothing because pirates don't have a voice and they don't send a message other than "we're stealing your money". That is the only message studios and their investors get from pirates. They only care about making money and if something isn't making money they want to know why. They're not going to look at high piracy and think "This must be due to our crazy DRM" they're going to think "This must be due to them all being thieves and not wanting to give us money". What do you think the outcome of that thought process is? More DRM or outright saying "if they don't want to pay us to play games then we don't want to make games for them to play". The problem is you're looking at it from a "in a perfect world" point of view. Sadly things don't work that way and they never will. The movie and music industries are shining examples of how piracy is treated by companies. Fear, hatred, and attempts to do anything possible to destroy it. It however is not met by thoughts of "maybe if we changed something it would go away".

Plague_Injected said:
Yes. I have told you time and time again I am from the future. :cool:

...But I did say "games", meaning Ubisoft games in general...not Driver specifically. The last few Ubi titles I've bought on PC (except a well-patched-up AC2) have all given me endless trouble from random freezes/crashes to corrupted save files, to no longer recognising keyboards, to stupid shit like missiles continously firing without any input from me.

Judging on Ubi's current form I'm not predicting Driver to be any different in this regard. It should be noted that Ubi's latest game (Call of Juarez: The Cartel) is reviewing fairly weakly, chiefly due to bugs and glitches. They just never seem to test this shit before they release anything.
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ACB is pretty good on the PC as well. I was going to point out other recent Ubi titles with good PC versions, then I realized AC2 and ACB were the last ones I bought.

Oh yeah Cartel. I was looking forward to that one too. Neither of the previous games were examples of great games but they were fun. Not sure WTH they were thinking with Cartel.
 
Derangel said:
ACB is pretty good on the PC as well. I was going to point out other recent Ubi titles with good PC versions, then I realized AC2 and ACB were the last ones I bought.

Oh yeah Cartel. I was looking forward to that one too. Neither of the previous games were examples of great games but they were fun. Not sure WTH they were thinking with Cartel.
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Never got to ACB on the PC...was too scared after having so much trouble with Splinter Cell Conviction. I played it on PS3 and didn't have much trouble with it but it was after a few patches. I've seen Fail here say the game was broken on release.

I was really looking forward to The Cartel and thought the modernising it with the edgy setting would have worked but from the reviews it just seems badly designed along with being bug-ridden.
 
I disagree, pirates are some of the most vocal amongst the gamers, you only need step into a forum like this one and see people are willing to pirate games for reasons such as DRM, price, release date, etc.

Gathering that data isn't very hard either, you can start a poll on a forum like this, or a poll anywhere on the web and measure why people are pirating in general or pirating a specific game.
 
Derangel said:
They're not going to look at high piracy and think "This must be due to our crazy DRM" they're going to think "This must be due to them all being thieves and not wanting to give us money". What do you think the outcome of that thought process is? More DRM or outright saying "if they don't want to pay us to play games then we don't want to make games for them to play". The problem is you're looking at it from a "in a perfect world" point of view. Sadly things don't work that way and they never will.
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Honestly, good points made here, and I don't think it applies to publishers just seeing high piracy rates, either. I feel that them seeing low sales from people "voting with their wallets" can have the same effect as well, since humans are generally an irrational species.

Any excuse to look like the victims will be used to make irrational decisions and to justify those decisions. It's just circular reasoning on their part. If people "voted with their wallet" didn't purchase their games and they were seeing low sales, they'd probably also blame that on piracy as well, and we'll continue in the same vicious circle over and over again.

Truly, the whole situation with such ridiculous, heavy-handed DRM schemes has become nothing more than drama in the industry.
 
They only care about making money and if something isn't making money they want to know why. They're not going to look at high piracy and think "This must be due to our crazy DRM" they're going to think "This must be due to them all being thieves and not wanting to give us money". What do you think the outcome of that thought process is? More DRM or outright saying "if they don't want to pay us to play games then we don't want to make games for them to play".
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You're 100% right.

But it is a short term effect and it's precisely why this works, it causes a sort of degenerating loop, they think they don't have enough DRM so add more, people pirate more so they add more etc. The only way it can end is in failure, and that's a good thing because the developers doing that will be ejected from the market leaving space for someone better to take over.

Things are going to get worse before they get better, almost all reform goes through this period, it did with music, piracy on napster and competing P2P platforms grew rapidly out of control and the market eventually couldn't ignore it any longer, DRM and legal threats were no longer enough and they buckled and gave people what they wanted, cheap music distributed digitally in a format that people can whatever they want with. But for many years piracy rampantly grew out of control, it took the market falling to pieces before the big recording lables would change their behaviour.
 
GORANKAR said:
I prefer to just let the game slide off the radar like I did with AC2. Not worth buying, not worth playing, not worth the bandwidth. In short, I would rather reject the product totally in situations like this.
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If you own a PS3 or 360 i WOULD totally pick it up for one of those systems.

I have it for PS3 and don't regret my purchase, I didn't buy it for PC for obvious reasons.
 
heatlesssun said:
Never had any problems with this in Splinter Cell, that was actually a great game I thought. I guess I can understand why people who aren't well connected have problem.
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I'm well connected and I still will now allow this shit on my PC. I despise Ubisoft and hope they go bankrupt ASAP. :mad:
 
Sad to see this form of DRM come back. Last year I did an editorial style sketch about that, and I'd hoped that it would never be relevant again. Thanks for killing my hopes Ubisoft. :(

Driver was on my undecided list (maybe during a Steam sale), but not now.
 
I wonder what the sales figures were like for AC2 after they removed the always connected DRM. I'm really shocked they are going for it again after all the bad press the first time round. Funny thing is that it was fully cracked within a matter of weeks anyway so the only people it really effected were the actual customers yet again. It's really just hard to imagine what their reasoning is on this one. If it were as simple as they just wanted to stop making pc games for whatever reason then they would simply stop making them. It doesn't make sense to develop a product and intentionally torpedo it. This whole mess is just so full of wtf. It seems like someone at Ubi should have the foresight to see this isn't going to work out.

EDIT:
Maybe this is just to postpone piracy that couple of weeks rather than hours to grab must have it sales that would otherwise be lost and they intend to remove it after some set point of time. They can stir up a bunch of press ride it out a few months then remove it and have a steam sale.
 
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Fail said:
If you own a PS3 or 360 i WOULD totally pick it up for one of those systems.

I have it for PS3 and don't regret my purchase, I didn't buy it for PC for obvious reasons.
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I do have a PS3, but if they are going to screw me over on my preferred platform, PC, I am not going to reward them by still buying the game but on a different platform. I can see your point if they are must play games for some people, but no game is must play for me. There are just too damn many different games I can go play, for me to do more than a bit of complaining if a game I was interested in for the PC goes and gets castrated by it's dev/pub. They screw it up with excessive DRM, consolization, or just put ot a crappy game, and I bitch a bit here and there, then move on to another game that someone did not screw up. Better for everyone that way I think.
 
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