California Passes Internet Tax Law, Amazon Halts Associates Program

UrielDagda said:
Except that's not the reality. *snip*
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I know the class warfare game inside and out, and you're just regurgitating the same lies that have kept people voting for Democrats and left-leaning Republicans for the last 40 years. I'm not going to bother trying to explain real world economics to you because I don't think you'll be willing to listen and I'll just be wasting my time.

I will say this though. If you think fiscal conservatives only care about the rich you don't know anything about conservatism and how it works. People don't get rich by being taxed more or kept on welfare or regulated to the point that the very notion of starting a small business and complying with all the BS red tape daunts them so much that they give up and don't even bother trying. People get rich when they're free to work hard and earn money, then invest that money in their own ideas or in ideas that they think are good and will make them more money. You can't do that when you're taxed heavily or when the company you work for is taxed to the point of not being able to give out pay raises or can't expand and offer promotions. What conservatives want is for the market to be allowed to work so that people have a chance to work their way up to prosperity so they can become rich if that's what they want. It doesn't mean everyone will, it just means everyone has an opportunity. Government doesn't need to do anything except get out of the way and make sure people aren't breaking the law.

*I* am a fiscal conservative, all my friends are fiscal conservatives, and NONE of us are wealthy. We simply understand reality, and the reality is that government is failing miserably at doing anything except spending the United States of America into extinction. Your wonderful Obama administration and the libs in Congress are practicing medieval medicine with other peoples' money. They're trying to cure a severed artery by bleeding the patient even more.
 
UrielDagda said:
...........But people first hated the bailout and the bankers, then turned and screamed "hands off the bankers!" after a shitload of ads about Socialism were plastered all over TV by the banking interests......
Click to expand...

Please post links to said TV ads. And since "a shitload" is far more then "one or two or three", it shouldn't be any problem for you to post said ads and PROVE their existence, along with WHO, EXACTLY, created and financed them.

Why do I have the feeling you'll either abandon this thread or otherwise slither out of this challenge of "put up or shut up"?;)
 
Can we go back to the 80's interest rates of 20%? That means you would pay 6x the value of the house on a 30 year mortgage. So a $100K house now becomes a $600K house. Except only the bank gets to sell it as a $600K house, you don't.
 
Elios said:
DE has no income tax ether but property taxes are insane
Click to expand...

I pay ~$4200 a year on my $150K home here in Texas. So in 30 years I will pay $126K to government just for the right to live there. Thats nearly the value of the house. And I am paying for the right to live there. Stop paying taxes and see how long "your" home stays yours.

Property Taxes are just about the only tax you can't avoid. You can choose not drive your car on public roads. You can choose not to buy goods in the commercial sector. You can choose not to smoke cigarettes. But you have no choice when it comes to property taxes.

I think property taxes was the thing that finally pushed me outside of the "government is your friend" box.
 
westrock2000 said:
Can we go back to the 80's interest rates of 20%? That means you would pay 6x the value of the house on a 30 year mortgage. So a $100K house now becomes a $600K house. Except only the bank gets to sell it as a $600K house, you don't.
Click to expand...

What does this have to do with internet taxes and California exactly?
 
It's a shame I agree on a lot of what's being said in this thread, but realize this, both parties are a sham when it comes to handling this, both use their own rhetoric get into office and in their own way waste more money...

It's not Republicans it's not Democrats it's not even Socialism, it's just the modern day media blitzing government and all the good ol' boys looking out for each other's backs while pretending to hate each other in the public eye.
 
Sales taxes, along with import taxes are immoral and illogical. The goverment/state/country provides no part of the transaction (does the goverment ship your items?), provides no security in the transaction (if the items goes missing will the goverment replace it?) and just does nothing. If I can do anything to avoid a pointless money grab by overpaid morons, I will. They don't deserve anything for doing nothing. Fuck them. All it does is damage buisnesses as they now have to increase the cost of items meaning they sell less, so can hire less staff and pay them less.
 
this is pretty simple, if you support "more taxes" then i would also hope you voluntarily didn't take any deductions on your state or federal income taxes..

I've heard it time and time and again from people that we need to pay more taxes but they are always the first in line to take a deduction.. If you really believe in more taxes then be the first voluntarily do it on your own.
 
Parmenides said:
You have to report it even if you physically buy a swim suit from a store in another state while on vacation. At least in North Carolina. Use Tax, which predates internet orders.
Click to expand...

Right. Let me just go get that form right now. Hell, I'll even hand-type it for them.
 
DeathPrincess said:
All it does is damage buisnesses as they now have to increase the cost of items meaning they sell less, so can hire less staff and pay them less.
Click to expand...

Then either get rid of the sales tax altogether, or apply to etailers as well. Only making B&M adhere to it is BS. Looks like Cali Cali chose option 2.
 
Fail said:
I have to have a budget myself, if I exceed my budget, then I lose my house, my car, my credit, etc etc etc.

Government should have to follow that same principle instead of raising taxes each time they cannot curb their wasteful spending.
Click to expand...

Can you imagine going to your boss and DEMANDING a raise because you've started living beyond your means? Even worse, threatening your boss by force of law to hand over that increase?
 
The only sales tax solution is for the Federal government to abolish all state and local taxes and in place set a Federal sales tax that transcends state boarders.
 
Nanan said:
The only sales tax solution is for the Federal government to abolish all state and local taxes and in place set a Federal sales tax that transcends state boarders.
Click to expand...

That is hardly the only sales tax solution since how would you expect states to be able to pay for shit?
 
TechLarry said:
WTH is a "Flyover State" ?
Click to expand...

Any state that's not on the east or west coast :p

You know, the ones that are in that vast pointless boring area in the middle that noone cares about, where strange haggard people drive pickup trucks, eat bland food (like bologna sandwiches) and have never seen anyone different than themselves and thus have no cultural diversity what so ever. Football is the only thing that matters here (probably because htey are bored to tears because nothing else goes on here.

Essentially, the bad part of America :p
 
H-street said:
this is pretty simple, if you support "more taxes" then i would also hope you voluntarily didn't take any deductions on your state or federal income taxes..

I've heard it time and time and again from people that we need to pay more taxes but they are always the first in line to take a deduction.. If you really believe in more taxes then be the first voluntarily do it on your own.
Click to expand...

Every tax payer has the ability to voluntarily submit more revenue to the government should they chose so on their tax forms. Yet, only a tiny fraction do. The IRS has no problems taking voluntary 'donations' in additional taxes. I've always wondered in amazement how wealthy liberals (especially the very vocal hollywood elite), sleep at night living in their $50 million properties, when they could ease their conscience by donating 80% of their wealth to the government and still maintain a comfortable life.
 
alxnet2003 said:
Can you imagine going to your boss and DEMANDING a raise because you've started living beyond your means? Even worse, threatening your boss by force of law to hand over that increase?
Click to expand...

Your statement is ridiculous.

The government does not overwhelmingly spend money on itself. it spends money on things that its citizens and businesses need. Functioning infrastructure, safety and security (fire, police, etc) and - yes - a functioning social security net.

The problem is that people (and businesses) don't want to pay for any of thisthrough taxes, but they also throw a major hissy fit whenever you try to make cuts.

Let me answer your question with a question.

Can you imagine walking into a store and saying " I want that one and that one and that one" and then when you are expected to pay for it refusing to? That's what not paying taxes is doing.
 
matteos said:
California is the best, doesn't matter about the taxes, I buy my stuff from Newegg anyway so I already pay them.

Peeps are jealous, so they've got to hate.
Click to expand...


Anyone that feels that California is the best must be Gay. That would be a reason to go there. :D

Ill stay in KS. :)
 
Zarathustra[H];1037451877 said:
Your statement is ridiculous.

The government does not overwhelmingly spend money on itself. it spends money on things that its citizens and businesses need. Functioning infrastructure, safety and security (fire, police, etc) and - yes - a functioning social security net.

The problem is that people (and businesses) don't want to pay for any of thisthrough taxes, but they also throw a major hissy fit whenever you try to make cuts.

Let me answer your question with a question.

Can you imagine walking into a store and saying " I want that one and that one and that one" and then when you are expected to pay for it refusing to? That's what not paying taxes is doing.
Click to expand...


Also, the line that business should pay their taxes sounds sort of like this:

"I want everything for free, and because I'm not paying for it, it means everyone else should pay more for it so I can have it. I think this is fair."
 
Team Obi Juan said:
That is hardly the only sales tax solution since how would you expect states to be able to pay for shit?
Click to expand...

Eliminate public employee unions. Then you won't need sales tax at all. How do states without sales tax survive in this country? They live within their means by not paying out 80% pensions for life to so many public employees who retire in their 50's. California's pension liability alone is a $500 billion dollar mess waiting to happen. No way in hell it'll ever be able to cover that unless you confiscate all of the wealth from say, Hollywood. Or they could always raise the sales tax to 100%.
 
jordan12 said:
Anyone that feels that California is the best must be Gay. That would be a reason to go there. :D

Ill stay in KS. :)
Click to expand...

Hehe, I'd sooner shoot myself in the face than live in the mid west (or whatever Kansas is considered.)

I'd consider living in eastern Massachusetts (where I live), eastern New York and possibly California (not a huge fan of the place, but I would consider living there. Possibly also Washington state.

And that's about it.

Anything in the south would be out. I'm not a big fan of racism, hillbillies, football or pickup trucks.

Anything between the two coasts is pretty much just large cultural void. I wouldn't set foot there either.
 
alxnet2003 said:
Eliminate public employee unions. Then you won't need sales tax at all. How do states without sales tax survive in this country? They live within their means by not paying out 80% pensions for life to so many public employees who retire in their 50's. California's pension liability alone is a $500 billion dollar mess waiting to happen. No way in hell it'll ever be able to cover that unless you confiscate all of the wealth from say, Hollywood. Or they could always raise the sales tax to 100%.
Click to expand...

I agree, that many of these union negotiated pension plans of the past are ridiculous. Taking it away retrospectively - however - would be just plain wrong.

Many of these people chose a shittier job in public service, with lower wages during their working careers because of the benefits they were promised in the future. Taking it away from them after the fact, after they have worked their entire careers for it would be just plain immoral.
 
techie81 said:
Not to mention its becoming increasingly difficult to keep businesses here because of the high taxes.
Click to expand...

Walmart employs 2.1 million people.
Amazon employs 16k people.


Which has to arbitrarily be ~10% more expensive and ~10% less competitive than the other because of sales tax? ;)
 
Wow that sucks. It's just a matter of time till other states follow suit and maybe even other countries. I could see it happen here in Canada, they'll tax anything here. They're already trying to charge us based on how much bandwidth we use. :/
 
Zarathustra[H];1037450589 said:
I agree that there are too many exemptions, deductions and special interest credits in our tax code, and these need to go, but a flat tax would be horribly unjust. We should not be taxing those who are struggling to feed their children, when there are those who live in luxury and have money to spare. So what if they don't get their seventh yacht or third car or second house. A surprisingly large portion of America are struggling to keep a roof over their heads, feed their children and maintain reliable transportation to work.
Click to expand...
If you can't afford to feed your kids, you shouldn't have them. Not have them and then hope other people help you foot the bill. I understand some people go through hardships and need a little assistance to get back on their feet, and I'm fine with that. But I personally know TONS of people who have gotten pregnant and are having children they cannot afford and most likely will never be able to, as they don't have any education or a real job. Having kids should be a privilege, not a right.

If they threaten to leave and invest their money elsewhere, let them.! We don't need the freeloading sacks of shit.

From those whom much is given, much is expected. This is your biblical quote of the day.
Click to expand...
First you claim that we need the taxes of the people who have an actual income to pay for the people who cannot afford to live by their own means, but then you call those people freeloaders? Really? Who's the real freeloader, the people who work and earn money, or the people who are living off the backs of others?
 
Phoenix333 said:
Sorry, but I know the class warfare game inside and out, and you're just regurgitating the same lies that have kept people voting for Democrats and left-leaning Republicans for the last 40 years. I'm not going to bother trying to explain real world economics to you because I don't think you'll be willing to listen and I'll just be wasting my time.

I will say this though. If you think fiscal conservatives only care about the rich you don't know anything about conservatism and how it works. People don't get rich by being taxed more or kept on welfare or regulated to the point that the very notion of starting a small business and complying with all the BS red tape daunts them so much that they give up and don't even bother trying. People get rich when they're free to work hard and earn money, then invest that money in their own ideas or in ideas that they think are good and will make them more money. You can't do that when you're taxed heavily or when the company you work for is taxed to the point of not being able to give out pay raises or can't expand and offer promotions. What conservatives want is for the market to be allowed to work so that people have a chance to work their way up to prosperity so they can become rich if that's what they want. It doesn't mean everyone will, it just means everyone has an opportunity. Government doesn't need to do anything except get out of the way and make sure people aren't breaking the law.

*I* am a fiscal conservative, all my friends are fiscal conservatives, and NONE of us are wealthy. We simply understand reality, and the reality is that government is failing miserably at doing anything except spending the United States of America into extinction. Your wonderful Obama administration and the libs in Congress are practicing medieval medicine with other peoples' money. They're trying to cure a severed artery by bleeding the patient even more.
Click to expand...
This is all well and good and I agree. The problem is, we don't have any true fiscally conservative political parties and candidates anymore.

The Tea Party and Republicans yap about how they are fiscally conservative and how they'll reign in government spending, but what happens when they get into office? Nothing. The same exact deficit spending the Democrats do as well, just the money goes to the military-industrial complex instead of social services.

Try bringing up slashing military spending to most "fiscal conservatives" and see what type of reaction you get.
 
Zarathustra[H];1037451877 said:
Your statement is ridiculous.

The government does not overwhelmingly spend money on itself. it spends money on things that its citizens and businesses need. Functioning infrastructure, safety and security (fire, police, etc) and - yes - a functioning social security net.
Click to expand...

Not quite. California has a major budget shortfall - in the $26 billion dollar range. Their overall operating budget this year is projected at $127 billion. Functioning infrastruture, safety and security will not consume $127 billion. A lot of it is tied up in higher labor/pension costs for public employee unions in the state, which Jerry Brown help facilitate when he was last governer many many years ago.

Let's take the prison system for example: Why does it cost California $49,000 per inmate when Florida does it for $20,000? And yet, we receive the bulk of complaints about rampant overcrowding in the system. If anything we should be comparable to Florida or less. It's because of the labor costs. There's no reason the Department of Corrections should have a $11 billion (!!) budget.

A study done three years ago shows just under 5,000 CalPERS retirees sucking down pensions greater than $100,000. That's just CalPERS! How many of us in the private sector come even close to obtaining $100,000 pensions for life?
 
Zarathustra[H];1037451920 said:
I agree, that many of these union negotiated pension plans of the past are ridiculous. Taking it away retrospectively - however - would be just plain wrong.

Many of these people chose a shittier job in public service, with lower wages during their working careers because of the benefits they were promised in the future. Taking it away from them after the fact, after they have worked their entire careers for it would be just plain immoral.
Click to expand...

Immoral or not, when California enters bankrupcy, the judge overseeing it will modify pensions. It was always the case that government work meant lower wages than the private sector but also meant a more stable job and a fairly decent pension at retirement. This is no longer the case. Not only are public sector workers earning a higher wage than their private sector equivalent during employement, but simultaneously receiving a far higher pension in retirement. This is why the state's going under.

BTW, many people don't know this, but collective bargaining among federal public employee unions is not allowed. Why? Precisely because of what's occuring in many states.
 
Zarathustra[H];1037451877 said:
Your statement is ridiculous.

The government does not overwhelmingly spend money on itself. it spends money on things that its citizens and businesses need. Functioning infrastructure, safety and security (fire, police, etc) and - yes - a functioning social security net.

The problem is that people (and businesses) don't want to pay for any of thisthrough taxes, but they also throw a major hissy fit whenever you try to make cuts.

Let me answer your question with a question.

Can you imagine walking into a store and saying " I want that one and that one and that one" and then when you are expected to pay for it refusing to? That's what not paying taxes is doing.
Click to expand...


His comment makes absolute sense. Government today is severely bloated and not doing what it was originally intended for. We as citizens should demand a smaller, more efficient government and put some some of these lazy, moocher able bodied people back to work.

This does not surprise me at all though. We will see more states try this because they are addicted to taxpayer cash. I support these companies right to fight unjust taxation. There is legal precident on this. California basically told the supreme court to pound sand. Expect this stupid law to be challenged in court.

Folks this is why elections have consequences. Elect nutjob liberal control freaks and watch your wallet be destroyed.
 
Protip: your personal financial situation has no analogy to the federal government.

You can't just "cut spending" your way out of this mess after the government handed out massive tax breaks for rich people, got us into a bunch of wars, and the let wall street ass blast us into a recession. For all you personal situation analogy lovers, consider the following:

1. You voluntarily take a substantially lower paying job, thereby reducing your revenue. (TAX CUT)
2. You decide your neighbor is being a dick, so you punch him, but the drawn out fight, medical bills, and legal costs are seemingly unavoidable (BUNCH OF WARS)
3. You start to realize you can't afford all this, but don't want to get your old job back. Instead, you want to cut spending, but your family demands you keep fighting the neighbor, pay for a bunch of their shit, and will only let you cut things that are a drop in the bucket that they don't give a shit about (Petulent US voters)
4. Your greedy uncle fucks up an investment you made, and now is living with you, draining your bank account, but everyone says you have to take care of him or he'll wreck you more (Wall Street Bailout)
5. Your rich uncle basically (but somehow legally) steals your savings. You realize that he could kick in a little more to help end this revenue problem, and it will be a drop in his proverbial bucket. Your broke ass family says this isn't fair, because he worked hard for what he got, and we should all be treated the same. (Idiot poor voting against repealing Bush tax cut for millionaires)
6. You find a case of pop on the street. You make the neighborhood kids pay a quarter for every can of pop they take out of the fridge to increase your revenue. The kids move the fridge to the garage, keep taking pop, but never pay the quarter, claiming the rules only apply to in-house fridges. They promise to keep paying for pop they get from any in-house fridge, but they basically only go to the garage fridge now. (Internet Sales Tax)
7. The only option, you realize, is to take that old job with more money, but suddenly the family tells you no way, and demands you just keep "cutting spending." (Morons)

Sorry, folks, it's time to nut up. We're all going to have to pay a little more to SAVE THIS COUNTRY. As much as we would all like to hang every politician and wall street banker, we can't do that.
 
Zarathustra[H];1037451877 said:
Your statement is ridiculous.

The government does not overwhelmingly spend money on itself. it spends money on things that its citizens and businesses need. Functioning infrastructure, safety and security (fire, police, etc) and - yes - a functioning social security net.

The problem is that people (and businesses) don't want to pay for any of thisthrough taxes, but they also throw a major hissy fit whenever you try to make cuts.

Let me answer your question with a question.

Can you imagine walking into a store and saying " I want that one and that one and that one" and then when you are expected to pay for it refusing to? That's what not paying taxes is doing.
Click to expand...
You need to differentiate between state and federal governments. The federal does NOT pay for your local roads, police, fire, etc. The overwhelming majority of money spent by the Federal government is on Social Security and the military.

I would say that opposing the federal budget is perfectly legitimate - why do I want $0.51 of my dollar going to the military so we can have 800+ bases in over 100 countries when people in our own country can barely get by, we have a shit education system, etc? Or why would I support spending tens of billions on the failed war on drugs? etc
 
Katalysis said:
Protip: your personal financial situation has no analogy to the federal government.

You can't just "cut spending" your way out of this mess after the government handed out massive tax breaks for rich people, got us into a bunch of wars, and the let wall street ass blast us into a recession. For all you personal situation analogy lovers, consider the following:

1. You voluntarily take a substantially lower paying job, thereby reducing your revenue. (TAX CUT)
2. You decide your neighbor is being a dick, so you punch him, but the drawn out fight, medical bills, and legal costs are seemingly unavoidable (BUNCH OF WARS)
3. You start to realize you can't afford all this, but don't want to get your old job back. Instead, you want to cut spending, but your family demands you keep fighting the neighbor, pay for a bunch of their shit, and will only let you cut things that are a drop in the bucket that they don't give a shit about (Petulent US voters)
4. Your greedy uncle fucks up an investment you made, and now is living with you, draining your bank account, but everyone says you have to take care of him or he'll wreck you more (Wall Street Bailout)
5. Your rich uncle basically (but somehow legally) steals your savings. You realize that he could kick in a little more to help end this revenue problem, and it will be a drop in his proverbial bucket. Your broke ass family says this isn't fair, because he worked hard for what he got, and we should all be treated the same. (Idiot poor voting against repealing Bush tax cut for millionaires)
6. You find a case of pop on the street. You make the neighborhood kids pay a quarter for every can of pop they take out of the fridge to increase your revenue. The kids move the fridge to the garage, keep taking pop, but never pay the quarter, claiming the rules only apply to in-house fridges. They promise to keep paying for pop they get from any in-house fridge, but they basically only go to the garage fridge now. (Internet Sales Tax)
7. The only option, you realize, is to take that old job with more money, but suddenly the family tells you no way, and demands you just keep "cutting spending." (Morons)

Sorry, folks, it's time to nut up. We're all going to have to pay a little more to SAVE THIS COUNTRY. As much as we would all like to hang every politician and wall street banker, we can't do that.
Click to expand...
Your analogy is flawed for a large number of reasons, but the most relevant being that US voters by and large DO NOT support the Iraq and Afghanistan wars any longer. The government is keeping us there, not our citizens.

And furthermore, just because a bunch of idiot voters demand anything doesn't mean they should get it.
 
UrielDagda said:
Super low tax rates on the top 1% are killing us. All these cuts are killing us. What's left of the middle class is paying over 30% in taxes, while the top 1% on average pay 18%. It's affecting us federally, and the federal cuts are bleeding down to the states, which is all bleeding down to the local levels.
Click to expand...

Oh, yeah, I mean the rates on the rich are so low on the top 1% that they pay 95%+ of our tax in dollars, while the other 99% only count for under 5% (I think the statistic I saw was that the top 1% pay 98% of the tax dollars for the USA). Yup, that's sure low :rolleyes: /sarcasm...
 
GoldenTiger said:
Oh, yeah, I mean the rates on the rich are so low on the top 1% that they pay 95%+ of our tax in dollars, while the other 99% only count for under 5% (I think the statistic I saw was that the top 1% pay 98% of the tax dollars for the USA). Yup, that's sure low :rolleyes: /sarcasm...
Click to expand...

These numbers are wrong
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top