Apple 27" LED Cinema Display

The hp zr30w was the only other very high rez ips panel in the running for me until I researched enough about the over-agressive AG coating on all the non ACD mfg's high rez ips panels this gen... check the u2711 thread today and you will see a few people who couldn't believe how horrible it was and had to return theirs.
.. Having suffered over-aggressive AG coating on a 20.1" 1680x1050 viewsonic at one point, there was no way I was putting up with that on a higher pixel density (vs text especially) $1100+ ips panel like the hp, or the over-aggressive AG + bad input lag due to scaler on the u2711... and greasy whites and haze/frost on everything else.

...
... also, according to that anandtech article, highly dependent on brightness setting, the color gamut on the acd is 83.17 not 73.
 
I am planning on purchasing the ACD for use with my Desktop PC. I currently own the NVIDA 8800GT vid card. Can anyone help me select an upgrade to that card that will work with the apple display? My budget is 200-300 tops.

Appreciate the help as I am out of the loop with whats good in video card world these days.

Thanks!
 
sammieboy said:
I am planning on purchasing the ACD for use with my Desktop PC. I currently own the NVIDA 8800GT vid card. Can anyone help me select an upgrade to that card that will work with the apple display? My budget is 200-300 tops.

Appreciate the help as I am out of the loop with whats good in video card world these days.

Thanks!
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Since the connection for this is mini displayport, I would get either a Radeon 6950 or Radeon 6970. I'm using a Radeon 6970 and it works flawlessly.
 
addictedto60fps said:
Since the connection for this is mini displayport, I would get either a Radeon 6950 or Radeon 6970. I'm using a Radeon 6970 and it works flawlessly.
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Your other option if you prefer Nvidia cards, is to get any 5xx line (560, 570, 580) that features displayport out, and purchase a MiniDP -> DP adapter such as this one. Works perfectly.
 
addictedto60fps said:
Since the connection for this is mini displayport, I would get either a Radeon 6950 or Radeon 6970. I'm using a Radeon 6970 and it works flawlessly.
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Beware what brand you buy. Powercolor 6970s wouldn't work with my ACD whereas XFX did.
 
Best Buy doesn't even carry these in stores, you have to call the store and them order it, it seems.
 
Yeah if you look back in this thread even recently I mentioned a bunch of times that BB doesn't carry them in store, but you can order online to store (or to your home though you might have to pay shipping that way) . They have a 14 day return policy, but you'd have to wait for a new one to be shipped to store again if you had to return yours. Their extended warranty is also a year longer than the apple store's and costs much less, and if you have bb reward zone you would get a few points out of the purchase too.
I had mine shipped to store and had no reason to return it. I opted for the ext warranty as well, as I usually do on any fragile electronics ~ $1k or more in cost... though if the ext warranty is too much from the place I bought it from I sometimes opt for getting a squaretrade warranty with a coupon code. I think the ext warranty at bb on the ACD was only around $65 for 3 years, I forget exactly.

... edit.. I just checked online and the ACD is sold out at BB online currently fyi. :p
 
I just noticed sometimes the lighting (possibly backlight?) it flickers a few times out of the random.It's like when you turn on a fluorescent light bulb is flickers a few times. Does anyone know if this is a problem with my monitor or possible just my wall socket?
 
Hanakuso said:
I just noticed sometimes the lighting (possibly backlight?) it flickers a few times out of the random.It's like when you turn on a fluorescent light bulb is flickers a few times. Does anyone know if this is a problem with my monitor or possible just my wall socket?
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Hmm, I've never seen that happen on mine.
 
addictedto60fps said:
Hmm, I've never seen that happen on mine.
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I'll probably plug my monitor into my back up battery to get 100% stable power and if it keeps happening then I will do a replacement. Kinda sad since this panel has almost no dust inside the panel. It just has one really really small dust particle.
 
Turned on my ACD 27 for the first time yesterday after unboxing it and it is just pure beauty. The picture is magnificent. Thank you to all who contributed to this forum. Thank god I didn't buy the Dell U2711, its a piece of crap.
 
I purchased my ACD three days ago at BestBuy. I'm not sure if it's just a larger then normal store, but they seem to always have them in stock. They had two when I purchased mine even though bestbuy.com said they didn't have any. So don't always rely on their website.

I really appreciate everyone posting their experiences here. It's what gave me the confidence to finally pull the trigger. I had just ordered two Dell U2410's two weeks ago to replace my old 2005FPW's. I read everything about the anti-glare putting some people off, but figured it can't be any different then what's present on my lovely 2005FPW's. I was absolutely wrong. The U2410's anti-glare is extremely aggressive. I had a bad tension headache for 3 days after using them for an extended work session. (12+ hrs). Needless to say they went back to Dell for a refund.

I'm normally not a glossy fan, but my job recently upgraded me to a 27" iMac and I've really grown fond of the screen. Everything is so uniformly bright and crisp.

I'm using a mini displayport to displayport adapter from startech. It was only $10, and works great. I can see my bios, grub boot menu, etc. My machine is an SR-2 with a single Quadro 4000, so I still have another displayport out for a second ACD when my wallet allows :)

Thanks again for all the informative posts.
 
Questions about the Atlona AT-DP400:

The website for it at http://www.atlona.com/Atlona-Dual-Link-DVI-to-Mini-DisplayPort-Converter-USB-Powered.html says:

"Note1: For PS3 or Xbox users, you can use the DP400 converter without additional devices at resolutions up to 720p. Make sure to set your source to 720p prior connecting it to the DP400. Even through DP400 is able to pass-through very high resolutions, the Xbox or PS3 will only be able to view 720p because iMac 27-inch doesn't accept 1080i or 1080p, for this application we recommend the AT-HD620 (HDMI to Mini DisplayPort Scaler)"

and for the Atlona AT-DP200 at http://www.atlona.com/Atlona-DVI-to-Mini-DisplayPort-Converter-p-17859.html the website says:

" Even through the AT-DP200 is capable of passing high resolutions up to 1920x1200, users of iMac 27" will only be able to get picture with resolutions up to 1280x720 (720P). The reason for it is that iMac 27" native resolutions are: 800x600, 1280x720 or 2560x1440 (since the AT-DP200 is limited to a single link (1920x1200), and can't work with 2560x1440 it will take the next resolution down the list which is 720p."




BUT the Apple site at http://www.apple.com/displays/specs.htmlsays:

"Supported resolutions: 2560 by 1440 pixels, 1920 by 1080 pixels, 1280 by 720 pixels"

1. So does this mean the Atlona AT-DP400 cannot output a PS3 or Xbox 360 at 1920 by 1080 to the applce cinema display?

2. Or maybe it can and just the information does not match?

3. Anyone with any experiences ?

4. Are the PS3 and X360 limited because of HDMI ? I have looked in this thread and it seems one user was only able to get 720 working. A discussion was already here "Note that it is impossible to convert HDMI to 1080p with an ACD27", you must go to 720p straight or upconvert to 1440p" from Ashok0 in this same thread a few months ago but I do not see what supports the conclusion.
 
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Supported resolutions and Native resolutions are different.

It's similar to 30"rs without scalers where their native resolutions are 2560x1600 and 1280x800. So 1920x1200, although a supported resoluton, it must be scaled up to 2560x1600 to work on the panel. The same logic is used for the 27" ACD.
 
qz33 said:
3. Anyone with any experiences ?
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I tried the Atlona AT-DP400 with my ACD, and it was complete bollocks. No matter what I did, it was only able to output 720p. You don't think you will be able to display anything in 1080p on the ACD, since it is not supported (I think, but maybe I'm wrong). But tbh, the Atlona product was a total scam imo.

Never tried with a console though, but I don't see how that should work either.
 
suiken_2mieu said:
Supported resolutions and Native resolutions are different.

It's similar to 30"rs without scalers where their native resolutions are 2560x1600 and 1280x800. So 1920x1200, although a supported resoluton, it must be scaled up to 2560x1600 to work on the panel. The same logic is used for the 27" ACD.
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I understand a Native Resolution to be the "exact resolution" of the screen. In other words the real and total number of pixels. Why would this prevent the Atlona from working with the ACD at 1920 by 1080 ?
 
qz33 said:
I understand a Native Resolution to be the "exact resolution" of the screen. In other words the real and total number of pixels. Why would this prevent the Atlona from working with the ACD at 1920 by 1080 ?
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The ACD27" can only accept an input of 2560x1440 or 1280x720. It can output video at 1920x1080 only if you are using it with a Mac or PC. This is because the nVidia or AMD video card in your computer has something called a scaler, which can convert video from one resolution to another i.e. 1920x1080. When you hook up your ACD27" to an XBOX360 or a PS3, you no longer have a video card in the picture, so you become limited to the select input resolutions supported by the display.

The Atlona HD620 upconverts video signals from a game console to 2560x1440, allowing the signals to work with the ACD27". The upconverting process does cause a bit of pixellation but imho it isn't terrible noticable if you are sitting a foot away from the screen. I've been really happy with mine, it's nice being able to toggle between my PC and PS3 on the ACD27" with a single button push. I can post some pics later. :)
 
Ashok0 said:
The ACD27" can only accept an input of 2560x1440 or 1280x720. It can output video at 1920x1080 only if you are using it with a Mac or PC. This is because the nVidia or AMD video card in your computer has something called a scaler, which can convert video from one resolution to another i.e. 1920x1080. When you hook up your ACD27" to an XBOX360 or a PS3, you no longer have a video card in the picture, so you become limited to the select input resolutions supported by the display.

The Atlona HD620 upconverts video signals from a game console to 2560x1440, allowing the signals to work with the ACD27". The upconverting process does cause a bit of pixellation but imho it isn't terrible noticable if you are sitting a foot away from the screen. I've been really happy with mine, it's nice being able to toggle between my PC and PS3 on the ACD27" with a single button push. I can post some pics later. :)
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qz33 said:
Questions about the Atlona AT-DP400:


BUT the Apple site at http://www.apple.com/displays/specs.htmlsays:

"Supported resolutions: 2560 by 1440 pixels, 1920 by 1080 pixels, 1280 by 720 pixels"
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But the Apple site says that 1920 by 1080 is a supported resolution. Now I know that a video card can do its own scaling. But if you were going to do that you could scale a 640 by 480 or 1280 by 1024 resolution to 2560 by 1440 pixels. It wouldn't look too great unless the aspect ratios matched but you could do it nonetheless.

What I am wondering about is why Apple states that 1920 by 1080 is a "supported" resolution? It does not seem there would be any special reason to call out this resolution as supported if the Display was not capable of accepting a 1920 by 1080 input unless it is a gimmick for marketing familiarity.

1. Does the ACD itself scale a 1280 by 720 image to the full 2560 by 1440 resolution or is it kept at 1280 by 720 and it just takes up a tiny part of the screen?

If the Apple 27 can take a 720 input then a scaler should not be necessary. It should just need something like a Atlona DP400 HDMI version to convert the HDMI to DisplayPort without any scaling.

2. Ashok0, do you have the manual to the monitor? Does it list 1920 by 1080 as a supported resolution?
Please don't read this as me trying to argue with you. I am just wanting to figure out what Apple is meaning. I am sure you have put the monitor through it paces as you have been a great contributor to this thread and have done a wonderful job helping everyone that owns or is thinking about this monitor.

And thanks for offering to post up pictures, that will be very helpful.
 
qz33 said:
But the Apple site says that 1920 by 1080 is a supported resolution. Now I know that a video card can do its own scaling. But if you were going to do that you could scale a 640 by 480 or 1280 by 1024 resolution to 2560 by 1440 pixels. It wouldn't look too great unless the aspect ratios matched but you could do it nonetheless.

3. What I am wondering about is why Apple states that 1920 by 1080 is a "supported" resolution? It does not seem there would be any special reason to call out this resolution as supported if the Display was not capable of accepting a 1920 by 1080 input unless it is a gimmick for marketing familiarity.

1. Does the ACD itself scale a 1280 by 720 image to the full 2560 by 1440 resolution or is it kept at 1280 by 720 and it just takes up a tiny part of the screen?

If the Apple 27 can take a 720 input then a scaler should not be necessary. It should just need something like a Atlona DP400 HDMI version to convert the HDMI to DisplayPort without any scaling.

2. Ashok0, do you have the manual to the monitor? Does it list 1920 by 1080 as a supported resolution?
Please don't read this as me trying to argue with you. I am just wanting to figure out what Apple is meaning. I am sure you have put the monitor through it paces as you have been a great contributor to this thread and have done a wonderful job helping everyone that owns or is thinking about this monitor.

And thanks for offering to post up pictures, that will be very helpful.
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1. Technically. It's not really scaling in the same since. 1280x720 is exactly 1/4 of 2560x1440. So all it does is maps 1 pixel to 4.

2 / 3. This, albeit not aimed at me, is just apple trying to show that 1080p content can be viewed on the monitor. They don't mention that you need an external scaler, but they added it anyway. It's marketing. Not everyone is exactly bright and knows about computers, especially if your company is Apple and you market computers to people who don't want to use computers because they seems complicated. Bend your mind around that logic. :rolleyes:
 
PVA type panels have better blacklevels for movies ..if thats what you are aimging for. You can get a refurb or open box 32" 1080p tv pretty cheap for that. If you are going for console games I'd read up on which tv's have the lowest input lag and ghosting(google it, and check hardforum and avsforum about it in searches).
.
.. The cinema display is great for me because it doesn't have a scaler. This keeps the input lag to 11.x - 13 ms . The dells have a scaler and are more like 38 - 48 ms input lag (and really bad over-aggressive AG coatings). I'd much rather set up a ~ $300-$350 32" tv dedicated to video/console next to my $1k ACD if I wanted that type of content, than fart around with scalers.
..
.. Another option for gaming would be 120hz TN for the lack of motion blur. The 23" aren't too bad but the 27" ones are pretty expensive. I might try one next year/tax return time, added to my monitor array.
...
... I'd prob go the TV route in your case. I may end up with 3x 27" 120hz 1080p for eyefinity gaming next year (on no interest deal). Thats if they are all they are cracked up to be. If I'm disappointed with the single one it will go back though, and I may do triple 27" ACD if I can swing it. I keep my console games, blurays, netflix, etc on my living room tv.. and I like that I have to go chill in the living room to use them.. so I don't miss that at all on my pc. Besides that, any htpc OTA HD recordings, netflix on pc, or movies I ripped to pc scale just fine using my computer's video card, and if I really wanted blurays on my pc the video card would scale them off a pc bluray drive that can be had for $30 - $40 if that. My PVA samsung TV's blacklevels are way better than IPS monitors though so I wouldn't really care to watch movies on my ACD anyway. I play some move games on ps3 as well and I need some space to "move" .. not at a desk. :p Other than feeding a video camera or set-top bluray player directly into your computer monitor, I don't think you are missing anything other than the console that could be running on a 32" tv at desk, or larger room tv (more appropriately imo).
 
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Hey qz33,

Don't feel bad, the functionality of the ACD27" is very confusing based on Apple's official product description. Because 1920x1080 is listed as a "supported resolution", you would think you COULD use an Xbox 360 or a Playstation 3 @ 1080p but that just isn't the case. Like suiken_2mieu stated, it's nothing but deceptive marketing. The technical guys at Kanex even did an investigation on this and confirmed that EDID codes only exist for 2 input resolutions: 2560x1440 and 1280x720. 1920x1080 is completely M.I.A. There is a thread about this issue here: http://www.kanexlive.com/forums/sho...-and-the-new-27-quot-apple-led-cinema-display

To sum it up, if you have your console set @ 1080p, you need at Atlona HD620 scaler to upconvert 1080p to 1440p. If you have your console set @ 720p, you can stick with the Atlona DP400. Keep in mind you can only do 1:1 pixel scaling on the ACD27" through a Mac or PC. For example, if you set the Windows desktop to 1280x720 or 1920x1080, the desktop will be letterboxed with black bars on all four sides (Optionally, you can set your video card to stretch this image to cover the full screen). If you set a console to 1280x720 or 1920x1080, the image will be stretched to cover the full screen. This does result in some pixellation but I find it isn't too noticeable if you are a few feet away from the screen. My digital camera is kind of crappy, but someone posted some nice pics of the PS3 on an iMac 27" over at macrumors.com:

http://att.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=806175&page=40
http://att.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=806175&page=42
 
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Overall, I like my Apple 24in, which is basically just a smaller 27 in ACD and the aspect ratio is different.

The only 2 gripes I have with them is that the backlight isn't RGB LED and there is no 120 Hz input, so there is somewhat noticeable input lag (particularly Win 7 desktop with Aero enabled). However, the input lag isn't enough to throw off your moves in a game or anything like that. It would be awesome if it had a higher color gamut and if I could have minimal tearing w/o vsync, but at least it's a glossy H-IPS panel and the input lag is as good as 60 Hz monitors get. I'm also happy that blues are represented in the limited color gamut (~70% NTSC) more than reds.
 
You might be confusing input lag with both response time and blur/ghosting. 120 hz can display (that is... send to the monitor) 120 frame signals per second in desktop usage, and in games though the higher end games might need eye-candy turned down to maintain a 120 fps-vs-120hz *minimum* throughout. 120 hz also cuts one type of lcds blur (on fast FoV movement fir example) by half from what i've read. The response time of the lcd panel itself can cause the pixels to not refresh fast enough.


The ACD has 10.xx to 13.xx input lag since it has no scaler. The u2711 has a scaler and has 30ms "and often 40ms" input lag by comparison. There are no 120HZ ips panels anyway, nor any TN above 1080p rez so there you have some huge quality tradeoffs to TN inferior imagery and a lesser resolution - not exactly comparing apples to apples.
 
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elvn said:
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/apple27inchcinemadisplay_092610174635/24902.png

As I've said before, colorspace testing is usually done in dark rooms with the testing device right up against the panel. I doubt that the highest ratings are percieved as such to the human eye at viewing distance, with the panel flooded with light. That is one reason the high end nec's come with a three sided monitor hood - to reduce image degredation caused by light pollution. Furthermore, the over-aggressive AG coatings on other mfg's IPS displays have been reported to screw up the way whites look, which is a pretty common background color when doing color specific work. They also compromise fine details like text, so may compromise fine details in authored art and photos. So as you can see, the higher rated colorspaces may not be so much to the human eye in an improper/light-polluted environment and having a thick crystal/greasy glaze on top of the screen.

The acd is very lush and vibrant, imo the glossy screen enhances it. Unless you are holding up color swatches to your screen or work in magazine publishing I doubt you'll see any difference with the ACD's 83.1 % adobeRGB 1998 in real human eye viewing.
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There is a lot of info and charts submitted to this thread about all of this already , even in the last 6 pages.
 
If anyone interested, i'm selling my Apple 27" LED Cinema Display, mint condition in a box with accessories, including a 6' mini-dp extentetion cable. Check my thread on the for sales forums, or send me a pm. Offers welcomed. Just let me know.
Thanks.
 
I wonder how adaptable that will be... and how it will affect the minidp ACD pricing and stock/availability. I have an amd card with a bunch of minidp ports... and want the option of eyefinity with 3x ACD open to me next yr/tax return time end of this yr.
 
elvn said:
I wonder how adaptable that will be...
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Until we see a mDP->Thunderbolt adapter or AMD/nVidia start shipping Thunderbolt graphics cards, these won't work with PCs. Heck, they aren't even compatible with Mac Pros.
 
Their refurb store still has plenty of the displayport equipped ACD displays available, for anyone who may still want to pick one up. Its probably a better bet than waiting for someone to create an adapter.
 
I'm enjoying the ACD. I found the text is easier to read than on my 22" matte screen, now superseded by the ACD, a surprise. I'm now sure the U2711's AG coating would have been a disaster.
 
Just a quick question for you apple guys. Is there going to be a 30" version of the LED Cinema Display? Or is apple discontinuing the 30 inch ACDs?
 
I will say for sure, with there being 4 Imac coe 2 do models in our office, the "glass" covered display shows a dam nice image versus any other LCD in our office, but none are glossy and most are cheap, VGs driven LCD's for more text related work,
 
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