Apple Store Employee Starts Union

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An employee of a San Francisco area Apple store is trying to start an employees union. Hold on, you mean to tell me that working in a retail Apple store isn't magical? How can that be?

Cory Moll, a part-time employee at an Apple store in San Francisco, is working to form a union to fight for better wages and benefits and to address what he says are unfair practices in the company’s glass-and-steel retail showrooms.
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Dan_D said:
Great, just what this country needs. Another union. :rolleyes:
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No we don't but we do need employers to pay a fair wage that you can live on and provide benefits are are not cut to complete bare minimum. A fair days work for a fair wage a real world fair wage and benefits!
 
HisSvt76 said:
No we don't but we do need employers to pay a fair wage that you can live on and provide benefits are are not cut to complete bare minimum. A fair days work for a fair wage a real world fair wage and benefits!
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You mean like an $18/hr "living wage" for entry level unskilled employees?

What could go wrong?
 
Just do what Walmart did and just shut the store down. Unions had a purpose when there wasn't a minimum wage and the work environment was really unsafe. Now they are just a parasite on society. The guy makes $14/hr to work a standard retail job that requires no intelligence, training, or degrees. Kind of sounds like they are paying him a little much.
 
You mean like an $18/hr "living wage" for entry level unskilled employees?

What could go wrong?
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Umm....massive inflation...layoffs....further outsourcing....
 
schizrade said:
You mean like an $18/hr "living wage" for entry level unskilled employees?

What could go wrong?
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Yeah i meant something unrealistic try to be a little less dramatic. Fair means fair based on skill set and the duties the job entails. And there are plenty of jobs that also require alot of physical labor that take not much skill but require back breaking effort that should pay better than just over the minimium.
 
Not to defend Apple or anything....BUT....the minimum wage across most of America is $7.25 an hour, so it is hard for me to feel sympathy for this gentleman making $14 an hour at a low-end retail job and complaining about it. :(
 
Steve said:
Not to defend Apple or anything....BUT....the minimum wage across most of America is $7.25 an hour, so it is hard for me to feel sympathy for this gentleman making $14 an hour at a low-end retail job and complaining about it. :(
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If apple pays that then he needs to shut his mouth and do his job that is fair for retail sales w/o commision.
 
Steve said:
Not to defend Apple or anything....BUT....the minimum wage across most of America is $7.25 an hour, so it is hard for me to feel sympathy for this gentleman making $14 an hour at a low-end retail job and complaining about it. :(
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And only part-time to boot. What the hell does he expect? Most part time jobs are not required to give you the perks and bennies of full time staffs. Even when working in a union.

He can kiss some of his wages goodbye when his union demand high union dues.
 
HisSvt76 said:
Yeah i meant something unrealistic try to be a little less dramatic. Fair means fair based on skill set and the duties the job entails. And there are plenty of jobs that also require alot of physical labor that take not much skill but require back breaking effort that should pay better than just over the minimium.
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Okay. $7.50 instead of $7.25? Intellectual and Physical skills will always (and should) be 99999x greater than physical labor. Why? Unless you are physically disabled you can do physical labor. If you want to argue that well... blow me? Surprise surprise, physical labor may be required if you expect to be paid. What's that? You want to be paid the bare minimum to sit with your thumb up your ass? Sounds all too familiar to another group of folks... (protip: The welfare line)

Steve said:
Not to defend Apple or anything....BUT....the minimum wage across most of America is $7.25 an hour, so it is hard for me to feel sympathy for this gentleman making $14 an hour at a low-end retail job and complaining about it. :(
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Apple users are talented. Don't you know?
 
Azhar said:
And only part-time to boot. What the hell does he expect? Most part time jobs are not required to give you the perks and bennies of full time staffs. Even when working in a union.

He can kiss some of his wages goodbye when his union demand high union dues.
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lol exactly what I was thinking.


I'm willing to bet that this guy didn't really think it through all the way. The entitled generation strikes again
 
HisSvt76 said:
No we don't but we do need employers to pay a fair wage that you can live on and provide benefits are are not cut to complete bare minimum. A fair days work for a fair wage a real world fair wage and benefits!
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Go to school.
 
HisSvt76 said:
No we don't but we do need employers to pay a fair wage that you can live on and provide benefits are are not cut to complete bare minimum. A fair days work for a fair wage a real world fair wage and benefits!
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If you want fair wages, then be pre-pared to pay fair prices.

Things are cheap and crappy and made in china for a reason, cause people want more for less $$$, above all else.

Look at Detroit and the autos. They were a model for the labor based middle class, until the foreign companies did it for less and better.

Part of the problem is the standard of living... American workers expect a higher standard of living then workers in other parts of the world... Thus labor costs more.

I am willing to bet 90% of us would choose a china product if it were less then an american made prodoct (all else being equal).
 
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Cruiza said:
Go to school.
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I'm sure there are plenty of people who did and are now working well below their education level these days. Myself i did those high labor low pay jobs for years while in school. You do what you have to if you have never busted your ass for very little then you have no right to speak, just going to school does not guaranty you anything! It takes hard work. I know i busted my ass to get were i am so i have some sympathy for the less fortunate. This guy if paid well needs to just work and shut up.
 
Cruiza said:
Go to school.
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ummmm That is NOT the solution anymore, at least not as universally as it was 20 years ago.

Schooling costs a ton of money, in many many cases school isn't honestly worth it. At least in the traditional sense.

I have a few friends that went "to school" and are crippled by the loans they had to take. They are responsible,hard working, smart people...

Tech/trade schools seem to be a decent solution but its difficult because many are crappy just trying to get Gov $$$.
 
HisSvt76 said:
No we don't but we do need employers to pay a fair wage that you can live on and provide benefits are are not cut to complete bare minimum. A fair days work for a fair wage a real world fair wage and benefits!
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No we don't. There are some jobs out there that shouldn't demand a "wage you can live on." Those are jobs which should be done by people who either need to supplement their income with something easy due to being retired, in school or really young and living with their parents. Not morons in their late 20's or 30's who will try to support an ever increasing family of children and a seemingly always pregnant wife.

txaggies07 said:
Just do what Walmart did and just shut the store down. Unions had a purpose when there wasn't a minimum wage and the work environment was really unsafe. Now they are just a parasite on society. The guy makes $14/hr to work a standard retail job that requires no intelligence, training, or degrees. Kind of sounds like they are paying him a little much.
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Well said. If you need further proof that unions are a cancer look no further than the UAW. Union auto workers practically bankrupt the very companies they worked for. And I'm sorry but a companies employees shouldn't have the ability to hold their employers hostage. Additionally unions are part of what has driven manufacturing over seas because the consumer demand for product at lower prices has taken all the profit margins out of the products forcing companies to move to countries where labor laws are non-existent and the American dollar stretches farther than it does here. The problem is that so much of our money doesn't stay in our country. It goes to Mexico, Canada, Malaysia, Taiwan and places like that.
 
ummmm That is NOT the solution anymore, at least not as universally as it was 20 years ago.
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The trick is to go to school and major in something that will make you money. going to school and majoring in liberal arts does not net a large return on investment.
 
Cruiza said:
Go to school.
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Tell that to the 50% of last years college graduates, who have still not found work. These days there is little that guarantees enjoyable high pay work. Soon enough we will be waiting in line to work at the salt mines.:D
 
Apple is a very liberal company, so they should be forced to have a union. :p ;)
 
HotGore said:
Tell that to the 50% of last years college graduates, who have still not found work. These days there is little that guarantees enjoyable high pay work. Soon enough we will be waiting in line to work at the salt mines.:D
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Nothing guarantees enjoyable high pay work.
 
dandirk said:
If you want fair wages, then be pre-pared to pay fair prices.

Things are cheap and crappy and made in china for a reason, cause people want more for less $$$, above all else.

Look at Detroit and the autos. They were a model for the labor based middle class, until the foreign companies did it for less and better.

Part of the problem is the standard of living... American workers expect a higher standard of living then workers in other parts of the world... Thus labor costs more.

I am willing to bet 90% of us would choose a china product if it were less then an american made prodoct (all else being equal).
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Companies left the US because of our regulations and taxation. YouTube has a great video of Steve Wynn explaining how it's so much easier to get business done in China than in the US. If you want the jobs back in the US you have to make it easier for businesses to succeed.

A minimum wage is an artificial joke. Do you not think businesses raise their prices accordingly. If we suddenly raised the minimum wage to $10 an hour, do you not think we'd see a price increase for standard goods.

This is all common sense.
 
Steve said:
Not to defend Apple or anything....BUT....the minimum wage across most of America is $7.25 an hour, so it is hard for me to feel sympathy for this gentleman making $14 an hour at a low-end retail job and complaining about it. :(
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It's higher at $8.00 in California, and even higher in San Francisco at $9.79. Still he's making almost 50% more than the minimum wage.

As for the people who think the minimum wage should be raised, how about $30/hour or even $50/hour?

If you think that might hurt business and cause job losses youa re correct. But so does the current minimum wage, just to a lesser extent.
 
HisSvt76 said:
No we don't but we do need employers to pay a fair wage that you can live on and provide benefits are are not cut to complete bare minimum. A fair days work for a fair wage a real world fair wage and benefits!
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That's a great idea. But why stop at a fair wage when the government can mandate everyone be paid at least $1 million a year? What could be wrong with that? Oh yeah, inflation.
 
pgwalsh said:
Apple is a very liberal company, so they should be forced to have a union. :p ;)
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Typical liberal hypocrites.
Instead they make their products in sweat shops, underpay their employees, while making huge profits.
Everything they accuse conservatives of.
 
Steve said:
Not to defend Apple or anything....BUT....the minimum wage across most of America is $7.25 an hour, so it is hard for me to feel sympathy for this gentleman making $14 an hour at a low-end retail job and complaining about it. :(
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Besides, why blame apple if that $14 hour whittles down after FICA, state, federal, med and state disability deductions are made from his paycheck?
 
nutzo said:
It's higher at $8.00 in California, and even higher in San Francisco at $9.79. Still he's making almost 50% more than the minimum wage.

As for the people who think the minimum wage should be raised, how about $30/hour or even $50/hour?

If you think that might hurt business and cause job losses youa re correct. But so does the current minimum wage, just to a lesser extent.
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What's so sad is the unintended consequences. Because of rising minimum wage, teenage unemployment has been in a sharp and steady decline since 1978. Low wage jobs have always been the entry point for anyone with no job history. As minimum wages climb higher, your choice of employee dwindles down to basically middle aged experienced people. It effectively cuts down on the number of employees you hire and also the type of person. It shuts out an entire group of potential job seekers. It's always been that if you wanted a hire wage job, you'd seek education or job training to improve your marketability - basically earning the wage you deserve.
 
Dan_D said:
Well said. If you need further proof that unions are a cancer look no further than the UAW. Union auto workers practically bankrupt the very companies they worked for. And I'm sorry but a companies employees shouldn't have the ability to hold their employers hostage. Additionally unions are part of what has driven manufacturing over seas because the consumer demand for product at lower prices has taken all the profit margins out of the products forcing companies to move to countries where labor laws are non-existent and the American dollar stretches farther than it does here. The problem is that so much of our money doesn't stay in our country. It goes to Mexico, Canada, Malaysia, Taiwan and places like that.
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Or just look at the paper industry in Maine. Oh wait, you can't, because it doesn't exist anymore. At least all those unskilled workers making $45/hr had plenty of savings to help them through the rough times, right? Oh wait, they were also first in line at the welfare office, having driven there in their $80,000 luxury SUVs.
 
txaggies07 said:
The trick is to go to school and major in something that will make you money. going to school and majoring in liberal arts does not net a large return on investment.
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Again not true... I have 2 friends both are lawyers and both have a huge amount of dept. Both have good jobs (they are a couple). They cannot buy a house because their education loans are more then a mortgage.

Especially the high paying fields, are effected by the high cost of education. Doctors, lawyers etc all are broke until they get into the bigger money 10 years in.

Shit I went to a technical school, payed off my dept worked hard during the years my friends were gaining dept.

I make more then them (not much) but with NO dept what so ever.

Also due to the fact that I am a cheap bastard (spend $200 on clothes a year, home %50 the price of what the bank said I could get etc), I can pretty much do what ever the F@%$ I want with my money. Gadgets Gadgets, new vid card... yada yada yada.


As for the person that mentioned taxes and regulation in china... well that is part of it, just has the cost of living and wages are a part of it. Americans demand more money because things cost more here and we expect to afford to have more things (cars bathrooms in our homes etc). 7$ an hour is a ton if all you have to do is replace your thatched roof each year, vs make a car payment, mortgage etc. I am not saying one is right (or accurate) its just the way it is. I agree laws and regs do present lots of behind the scenes costs, but I bet many would be upset (and not the tree hugers) when companies started to do crap due to regulation removal.

Sure if we were to get rid of all our regulations, rules and such we could manage but then you wouldn't be able to bitch when a shanty down sprouts up in your neighborhood.
 
Dan_D said:
Great, just what this country needs. Another union. :rolleyes:
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Why not?

I can 100% understand why people are against public sector employee unions, which didn't exist until the 1960s and have created some of the worst government employees possible.

Voluntary organization of private sector employees into unions, which I don't support either (as in I would never work in a unionized organization... just because), isn't necessarily a bad thing. Some employers can be pretty abusive. I have sympathy for them despite not being enthusiastic about unions.

If it's statement of a rigid ideology, there's really no argument. ;)
 
I find it interesting that the talent pool here is discussing the wage issue nationally rather than locally. $14 per hour in the hinterlands where I live would enable a quality lifestyle if you didn't trip out on excess (also, no loans, marriage, or children). East TN has no income tax and low property tax as well as a low cost of food and fuel compared to the Apple employee's home area.

I disagree with the concept of national minimum wage hikes. Decisions need to be made locally in light of local cost of living indicators. $14 might be a reasonable minimum wage in San Fransisco given food, fuel, and housing costs; it would certainly be way over the mark here. Unionizing is not the way to go; too bad the Apple employee can't think of anything better.
 
dandirk said:
As for the person that mentioned taxes and regulation in china... well that is part of it, just has the cost of living and wages are a part of it. Americans demand more money because things cost more here and we expect to afford to have more things (cars bathrooms in our homes etc). 7$ an hour is a ton if all you have to do is replace your thatched roof each year, vs make a car payment, mortgage etc. I am not saying one is right (or accurate) its just the way it is. I agree laws and regs do present lots of behind the scenes costs, but I bet many would be upset (and not the tree hugers) when companies started to do crap due to regulation removal.

Sure if we were to get rid of all our regulations, rules and such we could manage but then you wouldn't be able to bitch when a shanty down sprouts up in your neighborhood.
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Unfortunately you make the assumption that is based solely on big business. Just remember that small business employees 71% of the workforce and much of those regulations hurt the small guys much more than the big ones.

If you really think all of China is living in thatched roofed homes then you have no idea what you're talking about. China is an economic powerhouse expected to overtake the US in the next few years.
 
I was thinking about this and I laughed because these employees are supposed to be diehard fans of Apple and pushing their shit without question. There are hundreds of idiots that will replace this union douchebag and also ask Steve Jobs "How may I sacrifice myself for you, my lord?"
 
pxc said:
Why not?

I can 100% understand why people are against public sector employee unions, which didn't exist until the 1960s and have created some of the worst government employees possible.

Voluntary organization of private sector employees into unions, which I don't support either (as in I would never work in a unionized organization... just because), isn't necessarily a bad thing. Some employers can be pretty abusive. I have sympathy for them despite not being enthusiastic about unions.

If it's statement of a rigid ideology, there's really no argument. ;)
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My issue with unions today is that they've become too politically powerful. Look at what's happening to Boeing right now. No card check and every state should be a right to work state, period. Unions served their purpose well back in the day, but many have become way too powerful and are affecting economic decisions for the whole country.

AFL-CIO chief Richard Trumka: “said he’d like to see the U.S. become more like a European nation that provides pensions and health care for all its citizens. He said he is accustomed to criticism and doesn’t mind if conservatives call that socialism.”

He visits the Whitehouse nearly daily. That's the problem with unions.
 
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