Which web development language should I learn?

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jeoff_b

Limp Gawd
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Mar 29, 2010
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Hey all. A long time ago I took up HTML and was creating websites all the time. Then just as Java was becoming a popular language I lost interest. Now I'd like to get back into it, but there is a lot more to learn than when I started.

So I'd like to know your opinion on which language I should learn first. Should I jump into PHP? Should I go into the tried and true java method? Or should I just learn HTML5 and use some CSS (which I would also have to learn).

I think I'd like to do PHP, but from what I've read, it deals with a lot with MYSQL databases, which is another thing I know nothing about.

Anyways, thanks in advance for your input.
 
First, I'm no web dev, but I'll give what info I have before someone more professional gets here.

Are you talking about java or javascript? It might be possible to use java in place of php or whatever in a LAMP server, or through the CGI, but I'm not too sure about that. I do have a feeling you're talking about javascript, and javascript != java.

If you just want to create static webpages, meaning that for the content of the page to change you have to go into the HTML and change it, then HTML and CSS are good enough.

If you want a dynamic webpage, which updates it's content according to data in a database (sql server) then I'd suggest learning php, python, or perl, and learning mysql. Maybe get a book on setting up a LAMP server (linux, apache, mysql, php/python/perl).

I don't know where javascript fits into all of this.
 
start with HTML/CSS, then Javascript, then pick up a server-side language like PHP, ASP.NET, Ruby, etc. along with some SQL (you'll quickly find out that server-side languages and databases pretty much go hand in hand), then revisit Javascript in the form of AJAX.

BTW, PHP can talk to many types of Databases besides just MySQL, including MS SQL Server.
 
The basics of HTML need to be first. That is the building block. CSS would be a strong second. Then SQL. From there the other server-side langs are much easier to understand.
 
Here's my plan:

I know html and can fiddle with css enough. I'm doing sites with wordpress, so I need to know php mysql and maybe some javascript for a few things. For that, I picked up a book by O'REILLY called Learning PHP, MySQL and JavaScript by Robin Nixon

While I am doing this, I'll want to dig into css so that I can do more than just edit other peoples stuff. That's ok for times when I only need to tweak something in order to make it work, but I really should learn it all for myself. There are probably decent books for that as well. I just haven't looked. The web based tutorials I've come across really haven't kept my interest long enough. It just doesn't work for me.

basically, the PHP book is for creating websites, but you can read it as a good starting point into programming in general with the way it's all arranged. I've made myself a nice little schedule to follow as well, so that I don't fall back to my old ways of starting and stopping, starting and stopping... like I have in the past with things like this.

The sections are separated so that you could do all three topics simultaneously. Then, they're combined towards the end of the book.

The point is, since I have a specific need, it's been easy for me to get my ducks in a row. Can you see a specific need for youself at this point? it might help
 
HTML and CSS first.

Then decide if you want to focus on front-end or back-end development. Having experience with both is necessary these days, but most people have a forte that they like to focus on.

Front-end being client side development such as interface design, usability, javascript, ajax, etc. Back-end being dynamic content with PHP/ASP/CF/JSP and pulling from an SQL database.

I started HTML, CSS, PHP/MySQL. Then I saw that most jobs I have come across require experience in ASP/MSSQL so I learned that too. Then I said the hell with it and learned ColdFusion. Javascript is my weakest ability. For some reason I hate it.
 
Wow, thanks for the abundance of information!

Are you talking about java or javascript? It might be possible to use java in place of php or whatever in a LAMP server, or through the CGI, but I'm not too sure about that. I do have a feeling you're talking about javascript, and javascript != java.
Click to expand...

Yea I did mean javascript. It was late when I wrote that and I wasn't thinking about the difference.

start with HTML/CSS, then Javascript, then pick up a server-side language like PHP, ASP.NET, Ruby, etc. along with some SQL (you'll quickly find out that server-side languages and databases pretty much go hand in hand), then revisit Javascript in the form of AJAX.
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Why AJAX?


Anyways I guess I'll take pretty much everyone's advice and brush up on my HTML and then pick up some CSS. I purchased Learning PHP, MySQL, and JavaScript: A Step-By-Step Guide to Creating Dynamic Websites by Nixon, which should be here by next week sometime hopefully. Do you have any favorite sites you like to use for HTML and CSS examples or tutorials. I was going to use http://www.w3schools.com/ for the majority of the HTML and CSS, but are there any other good ones I should know about?

I do want to use the flexibility of dynamic websites, which is why I was thinking I would go further than HTML this time.


By the way, this may be a stupid question, but what is the difference between the client side and back end development? I understand that javascript is basically where the information is created on the clients computer, whereas PHP is created at the server (or whatever) and then sent to the client. What I'm wondering though, is what is the purpose of it? Do they both perform the same tasks, but in a different way? If so then why wouldn't everyone use PHP over javascript as there seems to be less vulnerabilities there?
 
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I've been learning PHP with MySQL and .NET with Silverlight and SQL 2008 and the amount of projects that you can do/accomplish are vast. I am currently working on building web based programs for my own use to learn more about these programs as I have a natural interest in them.
 
jeoff_b said:
Why AJAX?
Click to expand...
AJAX is basically using javascript to talk to your back-end (server-side scripts) to dynamically update parts of a webpage (E.g. a live news feed box on your webpage)

By the way, this may be a stupid question, but what is the difference between the client side and back end development? I understand that javascript is basically where the information is created on the clients computer, whereas PHP is created at the server (or whatever) and then sent to the client. What I'm wondering though, is what is the purpose of it? Do they both perform the same tasks, but in a different way? If so then why wouldn't everyone use PHP over javascript as there seems to be less vulnerabilities there?
Click to expand...


Client side or "front-end" is what the user sees in their browser. Client side scripting is done with Javascript and it allows the page to do things like alert the user if they did not fill in a form field, or show/hide part of the page when the user clicks a button. One advantage of client-side scripting is that allows immediate feedback to the user without first talking to the server, another is it allows a lot more flexibility in the behavior of the user-interface (UI).
However, since client-side is controlled by the user, you are also at the mercy of the user, they can disable javascript, which will in essence, disable all the fancy UI stuff you created with it, so it is extremely important to make sure your page will still offer some useful functionality and your data will still be validated on the "back-end" if javascript is disabled.


To understand what server-side or "back-end" means, it is first important to understand the difference between "dynamic" and "static" web sites.
Dynamic sites, like this web forum, automatically change their content based upon user interaction. When you post your comment, the server processes it and then adds it to the other comments on the site, there is no human sitting there converting your input into HTML and then adding it to the page.
A Static site requires you to manually update the content of the site yourself, so every time you need to add new content, you have to open up your web editor, type in the new content, then save it to the website.

Server-side or "back-end" code (scripting) is basically taking the place of you in terms of updating page content. Server-side code is used to generate the HTML that is rendered by the browser, just like if it was you doing it yourself.
In practical terms, a developer will write a server-side program that accepts some user input from a web page (e.g. the user added a new comment), stores it, then generates some new HTML that includes your comment and sends it back to the browser to be rendered as a web page. This server-side program lives on the web server and cannot be seen or manipulated by the end-user, again, they only see the rendered HTML that the server-side code created.
How does a server-side language store, sort, and categorize your comments? That's where databases come into play, and why it is important to learn SQL hand-in-hand with a server-side language.
 
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html -> html5
xhtml
php
css (1,2,3)
javascript in general
jquery and mootools
ajax
asp ajax
.net
 
I'm a web dev for a living. These guys have the right idea.

HTML>>CSS>>Javascript>>SQL (pick one, i personally use MS SQL)>>some sort of server side language, personally i use vb.net and c#, php is good too
 
Awesome. Thanks again guys. I went through a bunch of tutorials (mainly at w3schools.com) and have done a refresher of HTML. I am planning on starting CSS shortly, and then PHP and some form of javascript. But I was wondering if I should maybe go through HTML5 first? Do you think this would be worthwhile for me to do right now? Should I pick up XHTML? Or should I just stick to regular HTML (I think it's HTML4, but I've been out of the loop for a long time now).
 
jeoff_b said:
But I was wondering if I should maybe go through HTML5 first? Do you think this would be worthwhile for me to do right now? Should I pick up XHTML? Or should I just stick to regular HTML (I think it's HTML4, but I've been out of the loop for a long time now).
Click to expand...

In order to answer whether any of this is worthwhile it would be important to know why you are doing any of this.

Statements like "should I go with X first" are somewhat puzzling because in the real world there's no first and no last and no completion. You can't go through HTML5 and be done with it, it's a never ending process.

If you are doing it to improve your chances of getting a job then I think that your best bet would be to find some sort of real life problem and solve it using php/mysql or asp.net/mssql with some jscript/jquery tossed in. Yes, there are opportunities out there for Python, Ruby, and whatever else there is but they are few and far between. Still, getting hired as a web dev without actual demonstrated experience will be tough since there are a bunch of kids out there who dream in <insert language of choice here> and have been since they were out of their diapers.
 
jeoff_b said:
Awesome. Thanks again guys. I went through a bunch of tutorials (mainly at w3schools.com) and have done a refresher of HTML. I am planning on starting CSS shortly, and then PHP and some form of javascript. But I was wondering if I should maybe go through HTML5 first? Do you think this would be worthwhile for me to do right now? Should I pick up XHTML? Or should I just stick to regular HTML (I think it's HTML4, but I've been out of the loop for a long time now).
Click to expand...

HTML/xHTML/HTML5, doesn't really matter that much, the important thing to know is proper syntax and the appropriate use of tags. CSS is where the real fun begins.

EDIT: I guess I should clarify. The version of HTML that you choose doesn't really matter that much, so long as you understand the proper way to use markup. E.g. why you would use a <div> over a <p>, or why headings are important, etc...
 
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maw said:
HTML/xHTML/HTML5, doesn't really matter that much, the important thing to know is proper syntax and the appropriate use of tags. CSS is where the real fun begins.
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Right. The main differences lie within what you can't do (enclosing block-level elements within inline elements, for instance), how you close tags (whether you can use self-closing tags or must always use paired tags) and different meta conventions for DOCTYPE declarations and so forth.

No matter which you go with, they're all SGML, so 97% of it is the same between HTML 4.x, HTML5, XHTML 1.0 and 1.1.
 
If you're doing some front-end stuff I recommend jQuery. It's the shits! it will make your life a lot easier.
 
Thuleman said:
In order to answer whether any of this is worthwhile it would be important to know why you are doing any of this.

Statements like "should I go with X first" are somewhat puzzling because in the real world there's no first and no last and no completion. You can't go through HTML5 and be done with it, it's a never ending process.

If you are doing it to improve your chances of getting a job then I think that your best bet would be to find some sort of real life problem and solve it using php/mysql or asp.net/mssql with some jscript/jquery tossed in. Yes, there are opportunities out there for Python, Ruby, and whatever else there is but they are few and far between. Still, getting hired as a web dev without actual demonstrated experience will be tough since there are a bunch of kids out there who dream in <insert language of choice here> and have been since they were out of their diapers.
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Thanks for the replies all,

My reasons for doing this, right now are just to learn. In a couple months I want to start being able to create some awesome websites. Eventually I'd like to try and get a job in this area, but for now it's just a learning thing.

I also understand that technology is always changing and everyone is constantly learning. It just is easier if I can make myself a list of languages to go through and then go through them one by one making my websites better and better with each one.

Maybe I didn't explain myself well enough in my latest post. Basically I want to know whether it is worth my while to learn HTML5 and XHTML right now or should I just move onto php, javascript etc and come back to it. From what I have read online, websites will eventually be moving to HTML5, but I've also read that not everything supports it right now. Just wondering what everyone elses experience with this is.
 
jeoff_b said:
Maybe I didn't explain myself well enough in my latest post. Basically I want to know whether it is worth my while to learn HTML5 and XHTML right now or should I just move onto php, javascript etc and come back to it.
Click to expand...

Learn HTML (or xHTML or HTML5) first before anything else. It is the foundation for everything web related. Anything you do with PHP, Javascript, CSS, etc. will be directly related to generating, modifying or presenting HTML on a webpage.

If you must choose a flavor of HTML (trust me, the differences are not that great), then I'd say xHTML Strict, because it is the least forgiving of sloppy markup, which ultimately will teach you good coding practices.
 
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I do know HTML, but I learned it around 2002. I see HTML5 has some new and interesting features (like embedding video). I'll probably just go ahead and read through the changes and do everything with HTML5. I've been reading and trying out some CSS features, now that is something that I could have used to 2002 haha.
 
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