AMD 6970/6950 CFX and NVIDIA 580/570 SLI Review @ [H]

I would have liked to have more resolutions, not just the nut grinder res...
 
CMD said:
I would have liked to have more resolutions, not just the nut grinder res...
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Honestly at this point a single 570 or a single 6950 will run any game you have at 1920x1200. There is no point benchmarking SLI / CF configurations at that resolution.
 
Been waiting anxiously for this, and Good review! The VRam is really a big factor for multi-monitor gaming. I wonder how far ATI's driver (new, sorta) team can take advantage of the extra RAM for other options.

At any rate it seems like a couple of 6950 oc'd are XFire winners to me. The 580 is still tops for single monitor gaming though.

Best description I can give for Eyefinity gaming... It's like having your OS on an SSD boot drive. You don't NEED it, but going back to a mechanical HD is a similar kind of painful.


Y.
 
slavearm said:
Thank god for the eyefinity resolutions review. I have to say though... that the ATI drivers on my current eyefinity setup make me want to slit my wrists almost daily. From the SC2 cursor bug every time you logout on the primary monitor (This has been an issue since the game came out with Eyefinity setups) to having to move around my primary screen, to monitors not going to sleep, to profiles not existing at launch of new titles. Why is this never mentioned during any of the reviews? It is a fair point, and worth noting. I would gladly have paid an extra 300 bucks not to have these issues.
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I sold my 5870 to 'upgrade' to a 460 2GB SLI for these very reasons. Nonstop driver issues and inconveniences. My 460 SLI barely performs better but all of my driver issues disappeared. Switching Surround on and Off does not cause you to have to rearrange the monitors over and over again as you step through every step of the process. Turning surround on actually remembers the order they're supposed to be in, which was apparently too difficult for ATi. SLI doesn't cause flickering issues in new games for a month until a driver update finally comes.

Anyway, the $300 is more than worth it for me to not have to deal with ATi's drivers... just need to sell my 460 2GB's and move onto some 580's now. Hopefully the 3GB cards ship within 90 days so I can 'step-up'.
 
I have not purchased ATI/AMD since my 9800 AIW. Ran SLI many times but my 285's were finally showing age. Got a 6970 on my Q6600/680i setup and it really helped on many titles I play.

I will enjoy going to Crossfire for the first time very soon on my new SB build. Thanks for a great review Kyle.
 
Vash63 said:
Anyway, the $300 is more than worth it for me to not have to deal with ATi's drivers... just need to sell my 460 2GB's and move onto some 580's now. Hopefully the 3GB cards ship within 90 days so I can 'step-up'.
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Hey wanna BM your 460 2GB [H]ard core before you sell? Would be very curious how those puppies perform in comparison to the shootout we just saw, with Nvidia's 570 sli being poo-poo'ed because of its RAM shortage.
 
I don't have time to do real benchmarks right now, work almost 60 hours this week, but IMO the raw horsepower of the 460 isn't enough to handle 5760x1200. In older games it's great but even high AA levels in old games like TF2 can't hold a steady 60FPS (I'm really picky about my TF2 framerate). Games like Metro and Crysis just aren't playable in full resolution. The RAM is definitely more than plenty but it's just not enough horsepower... maybe 3 of them would be more interesting but my system doesn't have room for that with my RAID and sound cards in it.
 
Jodiuh said:
Ok, so 13% of gamers on this forum use multi monitors.
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People on these forums are the types of gamers who are going to buy $360 video cards, and right now there are more playing on 3 screens than playing at 25x16 or 1680x1050. Sure, the bulk of the market is going to be at 1920x1200/1080, but it's growing and the RAM limitation will affect those are playing at higher resolutions. It also may come into play over the next year or so as new games come out. If you aren't one of the ones to upgrade often, that might make a difference.
 
interesting to say the least. AMD certainly is the better value here. but I wonder what the result would be on cost to cost comparison? for instance, you can have 3 6950 for less then the price of two 580GTX. you can nearly have 3 6970 for it. I would not do so but if I was looking to eyefinity I would probalby take the extra memory and horsepower for the same price.


Then again after this review (and other) I don't see it being long before Nvidia comes out with a 2.4gb 570GTX and a 3gb 580GTX
 
Vash63 said:
I don't have time to do real benchmarks right now, work almost 60 hours this week, but IMO the raw horsepower of the 460 isn't enough to handle 5760x1200. In older games it's great but even high AA levels in old games like TF2 can't hold a steady 60FPS (I'm really picky about my TF2 framerate). Games like Metro and Crysis just aren't playable in full resolution. The RAM is definitely more than plenty but it's just not enough horsepower... maybe 3 of them would be more interesting but my system doesn't have room for that with my RAID and sound cards in it.
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You can't three-way SLI 460s.
 
Good point, forgot about that. Yeah, I'd definitely say 460's aren't really enough to do Surround properly. I'm picky though, I like my maxed settings and high framerates.
 
Taldren said:
You forgot a review ... 6950 crossfire that are bios upgraded to 6970 crossfire.
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The performance of the upgraded 6950 is identical to the 6970, so they already reviewed it. The temps are a few degrees hotter, so it's a good idea to keep an eye on them.
 
Kyle, since we're on the subject of crossfire with high-end AMD/ATI cards............

Can you please say something in an official capacity about the inability of 58xx/69xx cards to breath properly in many crossfire configurations because the flat heatsink/fan design causes the secong card to stifle the first.

Many, many, crossfire boards have the crossfire slots with only one 'spare' slot between, so a badly designed heatsink/fan will suffocate its partner, causing heat to rise and fans to whine.

Nvidia solved this years ago with the angled fans of the 8800 series cards, when is AMD/ATI going to get it right?
 
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Excellent review. However, I was hoping to see some Crysis numbers, since my single GTX580 still cannot max out that game. Also, why aren't more demanding games such as Arma 2, Stalker CoP and GTA 4 compared? I only game at 1080p and those games make me want to go for a second GTX580.
 
I'm stuck on my SLI MB for awhile, not going SB yet.... otherwise I think two 6950s would be in order. I'm hoping/waiting on the GTX 560. I want more performance than the 460s in SLI but don't trust my 750w PS to do 570 SLI.
 
I ran a rough statistical analysis on this benchmark suite, and came out with the following:

Performance alone:
SLI580
HD6970CF
SLI570
HD6950CF

Performance/Price:
SLI580
HD6970CF
HD6950CF
SLI570 [Close, sometimes tie]

Performance/Watt:
SLI580
HD6970CF
HD6950CF
SLI570


Surprised to see the 580 SLI at the top for all of the categories, but given the absurd wins in stuff like Mafia and Battlefield, it makes sense.
 
Rizen said:
To be fair, the average gamer isn't going to buy a 570 at $300+ either.
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Agreed.

To put this into perspective. Counter-Strike: Source is still the #1 game played in the steam stats.

I was on a public server yesterday (after not having played CS for 7 or 8 years) and there were people complaining about recent map updates and how they make they computer "lag" (their term for low FPS) at 1280x1024.

Meanwhile I'm doing 270+FPS at 2560x1600 with my GTX580 with 8XMSAA, 16x AF, and all in game setting turned all the way up.

Judging by that response, I would guess they were using a single core P4 or Athlon with a AGP 6800GT or older, or something newer with integrated graphics, and these are kids who consider themselves "hardcore PC gamers"...

Heck, even my Arrandale core i5 with integrated Intel HD graphics is capable of pushing 60fps at natural resolution in CS:S.

You should see how many people on the Civ V forums are pissed off that the game won't run on their old desktops with ~8400GS video cards...

We - on this forum - are a significant minority.
 
samuelmorris said:
I ran a rough statistical analysis on this benchmark suite, and came out with the following:

Performance alone:
SLI580
HD6970CF
SLI570
HD6950CF

Performance/Price:
SLI580
HD6970CF
HD6950CF
SLI570 [Close, sometimes tie]

Performance/Watt:
SLI580
HD6970CF
HD6950CF
SLI570


Surprised to see the 580 SLI at the top for all of the categories, but given the absurd wins in stuff like Mafia and Battlefield, it makes sense.
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What does this have to do with statistics?

I think the above is pretty accurate as long as you don't run into VRAM limitations.
 
I must admit this article is a little disconcerning to me. In the next few months I plan on dropping a lot of cash for a whole new rig, and my plan is to run nVidia surround with 3D vision over 3 monitors. While I know dropping $1k on GPUs will get me to where I want to be, knowing I'm not getting the best bang for my buck is something I'm not really comfortable with. If AMD had 3D Vision I would strongly consider it...
 
Zarathustra: As it was calculated with the results provided in this test, rather than just using 'accepted rules'.
Tricky: AMD do have 3D, it's just bad, for now. That could potentially change.
 
Tricky said:
I must admit this article is a little disconcerning to me. In the next few months I plan on dropping a lot of cash for a whole new rig, and my plan is to run nVidia surround with 3D vision over 3 monitors. While I know dropping $1k on GPUs will get me to where I want to be, knowing I'm not getting the best bang for my buck is something I'm not really comfortable with. If AMD had 3D Vision I would strongly consider it...
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There is never bang for the buck when it comes to high-end tech.
 
Tricky said:
I must admit this article is a little disconcerning to me. In the next few months I plan on dropping a lot of cash for a whole new rig, and my plan is to run nVidia surround with 3D vision over 3 monitors. While I know dropping $1k on GPUs will get me to where I want to be, knowing I'm not getting the best bang for my buck is something I'm not really comfortable with. If AMD had 3D Vision I would strongly consider it...
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Have you actually ever used 3D? I have not used NVIDIA's 3D, but I am curious to try it, as I have hated every 3D implementation I have ever tried..
 
I dont think Nvidia will have the performance you need at 5760 in 3D unless you get Tri SLI and turn down AA. (memory limitations). You are looking at more like 1500 in GPUs.
 
Rizen said:
Have you actually ever used 3D? I have not used NVIDIA's 3D, but I am curious to try it, as I have hated every 3D implementation I have ever tried..
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I have, many times actually. I've played WoW over 3 monitors with 3dVision at Blizzcon at a coworkers house who has the setup. Though I must admit, it goes from being "cool" to "amazing" switching to any first person perspective game. I remember describing playing TF2 as "tits hot" and playing the dated NFS: Most Wanted as "one of the coolest things I've ever seen".


Seriously, it's over the top with racing games. Mind blowingly awesome, at least for me. I think I lucked out since I don't need to wear glasses or contacts and don't get headaches or eye strain from 3d glasses.
 
Supposedly all the games I played in 3D on multiple monitors were badly supported, so I would like to see one that's well supported and perhaps re-evaluate but my negative opinion of 3D primarily comes from the fact of how difficult it is to run the more demanding games out there already, before you extend them to three screens, and let alone when you add the rendering cost of 3D too. As we see here, there's already a case where 1.5GB of memory isn't enough at 5760x1200, and several where 1.25GB isn't. Games aren't about to become less demanding or more memory efficient. The frame rates pushed with these cards at this resolution are less than stellar, and the levels of AA used, with a couple of rare exceptions are very moderate. Demanding as the games in this test are, they aren't even the worst that's out there. It's all very well saying 'run even more than two cards' but that often doesn't gain you a huge amount more performance. I honestly think multi-display setups with 3D are going to struggle to keep pace with game development, and to avoid lag with them people are going to need to reduce detail, even on hugely expensive multi-card setups. If you're sacrificing detail to do this, it really weakens the point, if not defeating it entirely, depending on the severity of the problem.
I'm an eye-candy nut, but low frame rates really annoy me. I will suffer considerably reduced detail if it's required to get a good frame rate, and I have to say, what benchmark sites, HardOCP settle for as playable, is a little bit below my comfort zone.
Using two HD6970s at 2560x1600 I consider borderline enough, and 5760x1200 is a further 70% more pixels.
 
godhandiscen said:
Excellent review. However, I was hoping to see some Crysis numbers, since my single GTX580 still cannot max out that game. Also, why aren't more demanding games such as Arma 2, Stalker CoP and GTA 4 compared? I only game at 1080p and those games make me want to go for a second GTX580.
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A single GTX580 can max out Crysis, easily.. I played through it at 2560x1600 with a single 6970. Felt surprisingly playable.

GTA IV does not utilize SLI or Crossfire. ARMA II seems to have trouble with multi GPU setups too. I agree that Stalker CoP would be a good test though.
 
Interesting results. The 6970's perform very well indeed but I'm more than happy with my my GTX 580 SLi setup. I did try the 266.35 beta drivers used in this report and hated them though and went straight back to 263.09. Games like Hot Pursuit were giving me significant fps drops over the 263.09 drivers for some reason.

Here are some videos of my setup.

Crysis
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GB1bbNyEfWw

Battlefield Bad Company 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9CxGxudOrU

Need for Speed Hot Pursuit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_29ZPcMAbUc

Need for Speed Shift
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9YZSgw95O8

F1 2010 Benchmark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDlngCCuLpg

Colin McRae DiRT 2 Benchmark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XQ1UrKeLdg

Lost Planet 2 Benchmark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWYOwR2Bmvo

Alien vs Predator Benchmark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDR7Ng6-5FM
 
The GTX 580 price almost doesn’t seem worth it when you consider a pair of Radeon HD 6970 video cards will cost you $698,

because of F1 2010? :rolleyes:

580 sli destroyed the amd setup in all other games.

and guess what? memory is not the issue in F1, its most likely the drivers.

if you disagree then explain why gtx580 setup destroyed the amd setup in all other games? f1 doesnt use more memory than bc2, etc.
 
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x3sphere said:
A single GTX580 can max out Crysis, easily.. I played through it at 2560x1600 with a single 6970. Felt surprisingly playable.

GTA IV does not utilize SLI or Crossfire. ARMA II seems to have trouble with multi GPU setups too. I agree that Stalker CoP would be a good test though.
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Thank you for the reply. I was not aware about those issues with GTA IV and ARMA II. Ok, you are right, Crysis can be maxed out with a single GTX580, but the fps isn't buttery smooth, falling under 30fps at times.
 
It doesn't destroy except for Mafia II. In all other games, the advantages dont warrant a $300 price premium
 
dook43 said:
It doesn't destroy except for Mafia II. In all other games, the advantages dont warrant a $300 price premium
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i suggest that you go back and look at the BC2 chart again, gtx580 with 16xaa still beat the amd setup with just 4xaa.

look at the "min" frames in apples vs apples the gtx580 nearly doubled the amd.

you cant be that blind?


i am very dissapointed with this review, so much fail IMO.
 
if you beat someone 4 out 5 you sure are a winner, but not in this review. If it wasnt for a driver issue in F1 it would of won 5 out 5.

i believe its worth the extra $300 dollars no matter what Kyle thinks, but whatever.

getting 2 gpu's and 3 monitors is not cheap no matter how you look at it, but who ever is getting it will not care for that price difference since money is not not issue to begin with.
 
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DualOwn said:
if you beat someone 4 out 5 you sure are a winner, but not in this review. If it wasnt for a driver issue in F1 it would of won 5 out 5.

i believe its worth the extra $300 dollars no matter what Kyle thinks, but whatever.

getting 2 gpu's and 3 monitors is not cheap no matter how you look at it, but who ever is getting it will not care for that price difference since money is not not issue to begin with.
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Nobody argues that the 580 SLI setup lost. AMD wins on value.

I have 2 GPUS and 3 monitors and I bought 2 6950s. Money is always an issue. Fact of the matter is, I unlocked them, saved a further $140, and still can approach 580 SLI performance, within 4 to 5 fps at 5760 on most titles.
 
Well you know something guys, we give you enough information to draw your OWN conclusions. We never asked you to buy into ours, we just share it with our readers. If you see a different conclusion, more power to you, after all, it is your money.
 
dook43 said:
Nobody argues that the 580 SLI setup lost. AMD wins on value.

I have 2 GPUS and 3 monitors and I bought 2 6950s. Money is always an issue. Fact of the matter is, I unlocked them, saved a further $140, and still can approach 580 SLI performance, within 4 to 5 fps at 5760 on most titles.
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So you trying to convince the people of the court that you couldn't get a set of 580s and OC them and blow away those weak 6950 that are "unlocked"... after all you could not even get to the 580s speeds?

this value thing is really getting old, I don't know when computers turned into who can save more money competition :confused:

If money is such an issue than how can you afford computers in general? You could always sell your first born child and get two 580s ;)
 
Nickbaldwin86 said:
So you trying to convince the people of the court that you couldn't get a set of 580s and OC them and blow away those weak 6950 that are "unlocked"... after all you could not even get to the 580s speeds?
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Absolutely not. Besides, overclocks aren't guaranteed, plenty of folks are frying their 6950s or can't unlock them period. I had a pair of dud 5850s that couldn't do 100mhz past stock on memory. This is why benchmark reviews do not usually include overclocking.

this value thing is really getting old, I don't know when computers turned into who can save more money competition :confused:
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Very simply, if 60% of the money offers 95% of the performance in most games out there, then they clearly win on value. I don't think I'd notice 5 fps in Metro at 5760.

Since it's a new arch, I anticipate major improvements with drivers as well.

If money is such an issue than how can you afford computers in general? You could always sell your first born child and get two 580s ;)
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I got 2 of my 3 monitors for free as bonuses. I can't justify the cost of this stuff, dude. Knowing that I made the right decision by getting 6950s is awesome.
 
dook43 said:
Absolutely not. Besides, overclocks aren't guaranteed, plenty of folks are frying their 6950s or can't unlock them period. I had a pair of dud 5850s that couldn't do 100mhz past stock on memory. This is why benchmark reviews do not usually include overclocking.

Very simply, if 60% of the money offers 95% of the performance in most games out there, then they clearly win on value. I don't think I'd notice 5 fps in Metro at 5760.

Since it's a new arch, I anticipate major improvements with drivers as well.

I got 2 of my 3 monitors for free as bonuses. I can't justify the cost of this stuff, dude. Knowing that I made the right decision by getting 6950s is awesome.
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Are you this defensive when you drive?

Good thing not everyone thinks like you, or NV would be completely out of business
 
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