I'm annoyed with my 360s as extenders. Any better options?

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xFROSTx

2[H]4U
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Basically, I'm getting annoyed with my xbox 360 extenders. It's not that they are all that bad, it's just that after 2 years of using them, my original problems with transcoding are still present. They work great with everything else, but 1080p MKV files get choppy and look like crap in general. Since MKV playback is my only real problem with them, I tried to convert my MKV files to WTV files using DVRMStoolbox, but the output files were always corrupted.

Before I revisit my conversion issue, I wanted to take a look at extenders again. I know extender support seems to have dwindled over the past couple years, so I was wondering if just using a computer would be a viable option. I have a couple of small form factor Core2Duo Dells that with a 5450 video card would be a perfect little HTPC. The only problem with this setup is that I don't have cable jacks in all of my rooms. When I tried this setup a couple of months ago, I couldn't get 7MC to use the TV tuner or recording drive in the HTPC server. The media drives with my DVD, Blu-ray and TV series files aren't a problem since Media Browser has no issue with network drives, but the recorded TV drive was not accessible. I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, but that is big drawback for me. Even if I went through the hassle of installing cable jacks in my other rooms, I don't want to give up the feature of being able to stop my show in the living room, and resume it in the bedroom. Any advice on what I am doing wrong or is it just not possible to use a computer as an extender the same way I use my xbox?
 
Theres no support for using a computer as a media center extender, and its a huge omission in my mind.

And i had heard that the xbox360 was the best extender. I dont have any issues with mine, but i dont do any transcoding, just for watching tv recordings.
 
ambientZ said:
Theres no support for using a computer as a media center extender, and its a huge omission in my mind.

And i had heard that the xbox360 was the best extender. I dont have any issues with mine, but i dont do any transcoding, just for watching tv recordings.
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Sigh, that's what I was afraid of. I guess I will have to figure out my conversion issues then. Like I said, the xbox is great with the exception of the transcoding issues, which get even worse when you talk about 3+ extenders. I hear that the Ceton cable card tuners will eventually support "network bridging" which will allow other computers to use the tuner like a HD homerun works now, but I didn't know if it was around yet.
 
xFROSTx said:
Sigh, that's what I was afraid of. I guess I will have to figure out my conversion issues then. Like I said, the xbox is great with the exception of the transcoding issues, which get even worse when you talk about 3+ extenders. I hear that the Ceton cable card tuners will eventually support "network bridging" which will allow other computers to use the tuner like a HD homerun works now, but I didn't know if it was around yet.
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The Ceton cable card tuners are back ordered right now.

Have you thought about SageTV?
 
Danny Bui said:
The Ceton cable card tuners are back ordered right now.

Have you thought about SageTV?
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The Ceton tuner has been perpetually back ordered, I doubt that will change anytime soon.


Thanks for the advice, but I'm not interested in Sage. I tried it years ago and I was not impressed with it. Not that it's terrible, but I wouldn't call it user friendly and it didn't pass the wife test. I'm sure it has been improved since I have used it, but at this point in time, reconfiguring my system to switch would give me more work than I am interested in when I have had no major complaints about 7MC.
 
HDHR prime will be for sale pre Christmas.... dont know if they will be back ordered for 6 months like the ceton, but HTPCs with a HDHR is how i deal with the scenario ATM.

I have a xbox360, but dont use it as an extender.
 
I used the xtreamer and it really works well. price is not that bad too. you can find them on ebay
 
xFROSTx said:
The Ceton tuner has been perpetually back ordered, I doubt that will change anytime soon.

Thanks for the advice, but I'm not interested in Sage. I tried it years ago and I was not impressed with it..
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Sorta short sighted? Imagine if people would have said that about windows after Vista? Sage7 is pretty decent, throw in Sage MyMovies and you have something really nice.

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50121

You are right, it is no Windows MC in terms of being pretty...but it is still a lot better than Sage6 and it actually has solid functionality.
 
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danman said:
No Cablecard support in Sage.
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You think this somehow precludes SageTV from getting all the HD channels? Before you go off on any rant on the "elegance" of the Sage solutoin...show me ANY product that gives you everything on all TV/monitors that is "elegant".
 
Trepidati0n said:
Sorta short sighted? Imagine if people would have said that about windows after Vista? Sage7 is pretty decent, throw in Sage MyMovies and you have something really nice.

http://forums.sagetv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50121

You are right, it is no Windows MC in terms of being pretty...but it is still a lot better than Sage6 and it actually has solid functionality.
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Like I said, I'm not saying Sage is bad, I just didn't like it. I used to use Sage and Beyond TV back before MC was as refined as it is now so I'm not just pulling this out of thin air. I'm sure Sage and Beyond TV got better over the years, but I'm not going to invest in software with the hope that down the road it gets better. I can give you a bunch more half assed excuses on why I don't like it, but then we are just turning this into a Sage vs. 7MC discussion which has no end. They both have their pros and cons, to each their own. You may think it's short sighted, but I think you would be cutting off your nose to spite your face. 7MC does 98% of what I want perfectly, and I know it supports my future upgrades (Cable card). It just seems silly to me to completely switch my front end when my only real problem is I'm a bonehead and need to figure out how to properly convert my Blurays.


Also, now that I'm thinking about it, switching to Sage would also cost money. While it's not going to break the bank, I could use that money to buy a faster processor for my media server. I didn't mention it before, but the transcoding problems didn't really become noticeable until I started trying to do multiple streams to the xboxes. Just thinking out loud...
 
xFROSTx said:
Like I said, I'm not saying Sage is bad, I just didn't like it. I used to use Sage and Beyond TV back before MC was as refined as it is now so I'm not just pulling this out of thin air. I'm sure Sage and Beyond TV got better over the years, but I'm not going to invest in software with the hope that down the road it gets better. I can give you a bunch more half assed excuses on why I don't like it, but then we are just turning this into a Sage vs. 7MC discussion which has no end. They both have their pros and cons, to each their own. You may think it's short sighted, but I think you would be cutting off your nose to spite your face. 7MC does 98% of what I want perfectly, and I know it supports my future upgrades (Cable card). It just seems silly to me to completely switch my front end when my only real problem is I'm a bonehead and need to figure out how to properly convert my Blurays.


Also, now that I'm thinking about it, switching to Sage would also cost money. While it's not going to break the bank, I could use that money to buy a faster processor for my media server. I didn't mention it before, but the transcoding problems didn't really become noticeable until I started trying to do multiple streams to the xboxes. Just thinking out loud...
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You asked about other extenders, well IMHO the Sage extenders have everyone else beat by a long shot. Performance is actually better over the extender then it is directly from the server in my experience. & You right.. No official word on cablecard support, but there has been some tidbits that it will support the HDHR Prime.

Currently however it doesn't do cablecard, & that bothered me at first.. But then I hooked up an antenna to my HDHR & saw how much better the picture was in HD then what my cableco provided me. So now I kind of see it as a tradeoff.. I have less HD channels, but they look better.
 
bastage said:
You asked about other extenders, well IMHO the Sage extenders have everyone else beat by a long shot. Performance is actually better over the extender then it is directly from the server in my experience. & You right.. No official word on cablecard support, but there has been some tidbits that it will support the HDHR Prime.

Currently however it doesn't do cablecard, & that bothered me at first.. But then I hooked up an antenna to my HDHR & saw how much better the picture was in HD then what my cableco provided me. So now I kind of see it as a tradeoff.. I have less HD channels, but they look better.
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Touche salesman. I see my extender usage only increasing in the future, so it perks my interest in Sage again. Even though it doesn't do cable card currently, I would expect them to work that out somehow. Business wise, not supporting it would put you at so much of a disadvantage, I think you would eventually die. That's just my 2 cents though. Then again, I thought there was no way Microsoft was going to let HD-DVD die either :p.

Unfortunately, this is a major problem for me. Apparently, my cable provider (Insight in Columbus, Ohio) will be going all digital as of Jan 1st :eek:. They kept calling me back in August to schedule a time for a tech to come into my apartment and check the signal strength of my box. Since I don't use a cable box (2 HVR-2250's give me all my basic channels plus my locals in clear QAM), I kept giving them BS excuses on why I don't need them to check my cable box. Eventually the guy got annoyed with me (Yeah, the same guy kept calling me. I guess they dedicated someone to my "case" haha), and told me that they will be going all digital Jan 1st. This means everything will be in HD, and all TVs will require a cable box. The tech needs to come in and make sure all of my jacks have a strong enough signal so it can run a cable box. I don't know if he was giving me BS or what, but it sounds like I will be forced to upgrade to cable card much more quickly than I anticipated. $400 purchases usually require the blessing of my "Financial adviser" :D. If I can't figure out a workaround quickly, I will probably get the green light once she realizes we can't record America's next top model anymore. :p
 
xFROSTx said:
Touche salesman. I see my extender usage only increasing in the future, so it perks my interest in Sage again. Even though it doesn't do cable card currently, I would expect them to work that out somehow. Business wise, not supporting it would put you at so much of a disadvantage, I think you would eventually die. That's just my 2 cents though. Then again, I thought there was no way Microsoft was going to let HD-DVD die either :p.

Unfortunately, this is a major problem for me. Apparently, my cable provider (Insight in Columbus, Ohio) will be going all digital as of Jan 1st :eek:. They kept calling me back in August to schedule a time for a tech to come into my apartment and check the signal strength of my box. Since I don't use a cable box (2 HVR-2250's give me all my basic channels plus my locals in clear QAM), I kept giving them BS excuses on why I don't need them to check my cable box. Eventually the guy got annoyed with me (Yeah, the same guy kept calling me. I guess they dedicated someone to my "case" haha), and told me that they will be going all digital Jan 1st. This means everything will be in HD, and all TVs will require a cable box. The tech needs to come in and make sure all of my jacks have a strong enough signal so it can run a cable box. I don't know if he was giving me BS or what, but it sounds like I will be forced to upgrade to cable card much more quickly than I anticipated. $400 purchases usually require the blessing of my "Financial adviser" :D. If I can't figure out a workaround quickly, I will probably get the green light once she realizes we can't record America's next top model anymore. :p
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You could snake a couple of the ATI single cablecard tuners off ebay for now. Should be able to cut the cost in half compared to the ceton. & especially if its just the 2 of you you probably dont need more then 1 oe 2 tuners for the cable channels as your 2250's should still work for clearqam..

And just because there going all digital doesn't mean anymore HD then you have now.. it just means you have to use a more complex setup to get it.
 
Trepidati0n said:
You think this somehow precludes SageTV from getting all the HD channels? Before you go off on any rant on the "elegance" of the Sage solutoin...show me ANY product that gives you everything on all TV/monitors that is "elegant".
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uhhh, how else does it get all the HD channels then? A HDPVR and STB? Great, I need 4 HDPVR's and 4 STB's to match my Ceton card. That's 4 STB rentals.
 
danman said:
uhhh, how else does it get all the HD channels then? A HDPVR and STB? Great, I need 4 HDPVR's and 4 STB's to match my Ceton card. That's 4 STB rentals.
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This whole thread has been about extenders. Microsoft can't do extenders...they suck at it. You keep bringing up cablecard as this huge issue...what happens if you have satellite?

I understand if this effects you in your single case, but for the vast majority you are trying to making a mountain out of a mole hill.

There are 2 facts

1. SageTV is the only media based system which correctly does whole house distribution of multiple media types and formats.

2. Windows MCE is the only media based system which above in #1 + Cablecard a bit better but only at ONE a single machine.

So, unless you are going to build a Windows MCE box for every TV and put a Centon card in every machine...

-----------

As a side note, A 2250 getting the clear QAM channels and a single STB + HDPVR gets you most of the way there. If you watch a lot of premium content, you might need 2. But still, this is cheaper than building windows7 boxes at every TV versus $150 thin clients from Sage. The whole 4 tuner argument is driving me a bit bonkers since the vast majority of people with a DIY PVR are operating on TWO.
 
Trepidati0n said:
As a side note, A 2250 getting the clear QAM channels and a single STB + HDPVR gets you most of the way there. If you watch a lot of premium content, you might need 2. But still, this is cheaper than building windows7 boxes at every TV versus $150 thin clients from Sage. The whole 4 tuner argument is driving me a bit bonkers since the vast majority of people with a DIY PVR are operating on TWO.
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This.. In most cases more then 2 is unnecessary.. But for the cost I cant argue with having 4 over the 1st 2 when your talking about adding a HDHR or 2250
 
Trepidati0n said:
1. SageTV is the only media based system which correctly does whole house distribution of multiple media types and formats.
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I would argue that mythtv has been doing this better for far longer than SageTV. But that argument is for a different thread.

OP unfortunately as you are finding to be the case xbox 360 is really the only game in town for W7 MCE extenders. I had issues transcoding as well so I ended up just building two separate HTPC. Currently I am using an HD HR for recording OTA and will getting a prime once they are released.
 
quique55 said:
I would argue that mythtv has been doing this better for far longer than SageTV. But that argument is for a different thread.
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I think when that was said he was including the usage of extenders.. Since that was the primary reason for the thread.. Last I checked there was no viable myth extender other then another computer.
 
bastage said:
And just because there going all digital doesn't mean anymore HD then you have now.. it just means you have to use a more complex setup to get it.
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Precisely what I was thinking. If I pull my cable box out of the basement, I know I can get Discovery, etc in HD. My 2250 will only pick up the SDTV channel, but cable card should give me the HD version of the channel. Technically, nothing is really changing, but I will get the HD version of channels I have been wanting for a while now.



Also, I'm hijacking my own thread here. I just so happen to have an old Silicone Dust HDHR sitting in my basement unused. Can you guys elaborate further on how a HDHR would possibly give me more channels than my current setup?

Currently I am just going with a pair of 2250s directly connected to my cable jack. I used to have a 2250 and a HDHR as my setup, but I retired the HDHR and picked up a second 2250 since the HDHR wasn't letting me pick up any additional channels over my 2250. The HDHR always worked well, but my media server has backup batteries so in the event of a power outage, my recordings won't be interrupted. I have moved a couple times over the past 2 years, so a network tuner, the switch and a backup battery for the two became more of a hassle than it was worth.
 
xFROSTx said:
Also, I'm hijacking my own thread here. I just so happen to have an old Silicone Dust HDHR sitting in my basement unused. Can you guys elaborate further on how a HDHR would possibly give me more channels than my current setup?

Currently I am just going with a pair of 2250s directly connected to my cable jack. I used to have a 2250 and a HDHR as my setup, but I retired the HDHR and picked up a second 2250 since the HDHR wasn't letting me pick up any additional channels over my 2250. The HDHR always worked well, but my media server has backup batteries so in the event of a power outage, my recordings won't be interrupted. I have moved a couple times over the past 2 years, so a network tuner, the switch and a backup battery for the two became more of a hassle than it was worth.
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It wont.. It will get you less intact. The HDHR is basically good for ClearQAM & OTA, Where the 2250 will get ClearQAM, OTA & Analog Cable. If you want though I would trade you that HDHR for a 2250 I have that I am not using. I Had both as well & actually preferred the 2250, But location wise I would have had to run more wires so I instead put my HDHR in the living room since I had an extra cable line ran going outside & I already has some cat6 ran to connect my old Tivo HD's & BR Player to the network/internet.
 
I ran into the same problem with playing mkv and m2ts files through my xbox. I had quite a few at the time and re-encoding them was taking an eternity. I found the program Wondershare on the hot deals forum and gave it a try. It uses CUDA to re-encode the files to mpegs and it is quite fast. The picture quality is very good and does not appear to be highly compressed. If you really cared a great deal about image quality you wouldn't be using an xbox for video anyway. The best picture quality you can acheive on xbox is through WMV but there are only about 3 people on the earth who have enough time to wait for the encoding to finish.

Give Wondershare a try for your mkvs and see if it will solve your problem.
 
i remember last year divx was trying to build mkv support into microsoft media foundation for seamingless mkv playback on both 7MC and MC extenders. i never tried to see if it worked well or not. might be worth a try:

http://labs.divx.com/mkvwin7preview

seems to be built into the divx plus package today. all you need in addition is an audio codec and a switcher.
 
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