Is it possible the next Half Life episode/sequel/game won't even use Source engine?

Should the next Half Life release be graphically update with a new engine?

  • Yes

    Votes: 113 66.1%

  • No

    Votes: 58 33.9%
  • Total voters
    171
Z

zamardii

2[H]4U
Joined
Nov 22, 2004
Messages
3,106
As some of you may or may not be aware, this past Nov. 16th made it 6 years since Half Life 2 released. Anyway, I was recently replaying Half Life 2, Ep.1, and Ep.2 and a thought occurred to me...

Half Life 2: Nov. 16th, 2004

Half Life 2: Episode 1: June 1, 2006

Half Life 2: Episode 2: Oct. 10, 2007

The Source engine is 6 years old now, and I was thinking that even in the terms of the videogame industry... I don't think that they would even want to use the same engine that they have been using for the past 6 years. A LOT of games have been released using it. Granted, playing Half Life 2 over again made me realize again just how amazing that game engine was and how great it still is in terms of performance on whatever machine, and as well as the textures, lighting, and physics of course...

However, is perhaps the reason there hasn't been any talk of anything Half Life in a while now, because perhaps the next game will be an all new game with a all new engine? I know this is all speculation, but I really liked the Half Life 2 games... although Episode 1 was extremely short. I don't care what they release whether it's episode 3 or Half Life 3, but it would be nice to have some new info on the series.
 
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well seeing as how HL 1 was the source engine 1.0, HL 2 was source engine 2.0. most likely the next one with be 3.0. valve owns the name so why would they use an engine by a different name. the question would of been better asked "will the next HL game be on another modified version of the current source engine or an all new source engine?".

though i agree its kind of surprising that they haven't come out with an all new engine yet. but i guess the saying "why fix it when its not broken" comes to mind here. the fan base is still really high on the current source games. why go out and spend the money to release a new game/engine when you don't need to.
 
Is it possible? Yes.

Is it likely? No.

Should it be? Probably... but it's not necessary.

Seeing as they will probably pump out Ep. 3 next rather than HL3, they can probably milk the Source engine for a few more years by just updating and altering it... which is what they most likely will do. It still has many positive aspects to it. However, it does lack the ability to do some things that people expect from modern games. That said, those things aren't what makes Half Life great. I'd look for them to continue using a modded source engine until they make their next AAA release (Half Life 3 more than likely), at which point they will probably try and make a big splash graphically speaking, and roll out Source Engine 2. Or at least that's what the speculation has been so far.

But no, they don't need to for Ep 3, which is likely coming next. Also remember that the engine is just the foundation of a game. There is a lot more that goes into the graphics than just the engine (though it does play an important part).
 
Valve, Valve, Valve. Please stop with the zombies and bring back Alex.

I agree with the previous posters; we'll probably get a modified version of what we already have if it's Episode 3. I'd like to see new tech but am doubtful it will happen until HL3.
 
I think a Half-Life 3 is more likely than an Episode Three at this point. It's been, what, 3 years since Episode Two? Valve has probably been working on Half-Life 3 (which started life as Episode Three, but the scope grew too large to be simply an episode) before Episode Two even came out. Half-Life 2 took 6 years, but Valve is a much, much larger company now so they can get more done in less time, even with their perfectionist attitude.
 
Absolutely. Matter of fact, what better time for Valve to release a new engine than with the debut of Half Life 3?
 
I'm expecting them to finally have at least DX10 in Portal 2 but won't be surprised if it's still just DX9.

I doubt they'll dump Source but they need to overhaul it and bring it into the 21st century, FFS.
 
djoye said:
I doubt they'll dump Source but they need to overhaul it and bring it into the 21st century, FFS.
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I know what you are getting at, but come on now... 21st century?

Here is Half Life (GoldSource):



Here is Half Life 2 (Source w/ cinematic mod):



Lets not lump Source in with 20th century graphics :D
 
Ep 3 will definitely be on Source, maybe they'll update it again, who knows?
 
Source will certainly be upgraded or revamped for the next HL, just on the principal there is more graphics processing power available and they will want to make use of it to create a more immersive experience.
 
Its my understanding that Source is kinda modular so yeah whatever the next game is will be a graphical update but I dont think Source is an end of life engine the way you're thinking it is.

Source was created to evolve incrementally as technology moves onwards, as opposed to the backwards compatibility-breaking "version jumps" of its competitors. With Steam, Valve can distribute automatic updates with new versions of the engine among its many users.
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while there is a process by which games may have to be ported as in the case of the orange box update it's a little different than other engines where the game would have be completely rebuilt everytime theres a new engine revision.
 
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It would be stupid for them to use anythign else. Of course it most likely will be updated but Source is constantly updated. Why would they drop an engine that they should know backwards and forwards. I mean cmon Source still has snippits from Quake which was part of Goldsource.
 
eh valve has found out they can live off the MannCo store in tf2 so they may not even make any more games :p
 
I doubt HL3 will be released anytime soon if ever.

Ep3 is taking a long time because it's just not a money maker, it's most definitely on the back burner. Valve saw a much better game design approach from the L4D games: Far less development time, easier QA due to less assets, and equally as popular in the mainstream selling well thus making more money.

Sorry, but the HL games have had their day; they're just not mainstream enough to justify modern game development budgets.
 
Half Life has always been about the action and storyline, i couldn't care less if they went back to the old engine...
 
spine said:
I doubt HL3 will be released anytime soon if ever.

Ep3 is taking a long time because it's just not a money maker, it's most definitely on the back burner. Valve saw a much better game design approach from the L4D games: Far less development time, easier QA due to less assets, and equally as popular in the mainstream selling well thus making more money.

Sorry, but the HL games have had their day; they're just not mainstream enough to justify modern game development budgets.
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Idk if I buy that analysis. I mean, if every game developer thought that way then EVERY game would be very similar and cookie-cutter-like. I refuse to believe that there aren't people out there who want to push the envelope and make a worthy AAA title instead of just going to the "business as usual" approach to games like yearly releases of shitty Call of Duty spin-offs and sports games which are all the same. I know everyone wants to make money, but I think Valve of all designers don't just make shitty games to make a buck or release half complete games to cash in. The release and anticipation of Half Life 2 is a perfect example.

And besides, Half Life 2 and the episodes were released on consoles too so there is no way they weren't making money especially when you consider just how many "games" you get with the Orange Box. When they release Ep.3 or HL3 it'll probably be in download format only over Steam, Xbox Live, or the PSN. If you cut out the need for disks, especially in this day and age when consoles are coming out with 250+gb hard drives then you can afford to release virtually anything and still make a profit.
 
spine said:
Sorry, but the HL games have had their day; they're just not mainstream enough to justify modern game development budgets.
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Youre kidding, right?

Half Life
The original Half-Life, Valve's first game and one of the most critically lauded PC titles ever, has sold an average of one million copies every year ever since it was first released in 1998. That's an average of one million copies per year, for ten years, without counting digital sales. Wowzers.
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http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2008/12/04/valve-releases-half-life-sales-figures/1



HalfLife 2
The game garnered near-unanimous positive reviews and received critical acclaim,[12][13] receiving praise for its advances in computer animation, sound, narration, computer graphics, artificial intelligence (AI), and physics simulation. The game won over 40 PC Game of the Year awards for 2004,[14] and several publications have since named it as game of the decade.[15][16][17][18] As of December 3, 2008, over 6.5 million copies of Half-Life 2 have been sold at retail.[19] Although Steam sales figures are unknown, their rate surpassed retail in mid-2008[20] and are significantly more profitable per-unit.[19]
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Life_2

And further more, HL2 had a Dev Cycle of OVER 40 million. Based on those figures alone I would say that the HL universe is still a very viable cash cow.
 
It'll be a next gen source engine , why would Valve lease one? its not there style.
 
Kidfinger said:
Youre kidding, right?
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Absolutely not.

I'm not an idiot; HL1 & 2 were hugely popular and sold millions and I absolutely loved them to pieces. But in the modern era of game development the rules have changed drastically.

The console market now pretty much defines gaming and most console kiddies these days haven't even heard of Half-life, and if they have they see it as some slow shitty game not as good as Halo. And it's these fuckers who define gaming budgets.

How long ago was Ep2 released? and where is Ep3 now? Valve are showing that they clearly know it's not a big money maker which is why they've developed a new IP and game (L4D) and it's sequel before releasing Ep3. Doesn't that tell you something?

Oh yeah, and they found time to get Portal 2 out next year as well. No Ep3 on the horizon. Don't shoot the messenger.

zamardii said:
Idk if I buy that analysis. I mean, if every game developer thought that way then EVERY game would be very similar and cookie-cutter-like. I refuse to believe that there aren't people out there who want to push the envelope and make a worthy AAA title instead of just going to the "business as usual" approach to games like yearly releases of shitty Call of Duty spin-offs and sports games which are all the same. I know everyone wants to make money, but I think Valve of all designers don't just make shitty games to make a buck or release half complete games to cash in. The release and anticipation of Half Life 2 is a perfect example.

And besides, Half Life 2 and the episodes were released on consoles too so there is no way they weren't making money especially when you consider just how many "games" you get with the Orange Box. When they release Ep.3 or HL3 it'll probably be in download format only over Steam, Xbox Live, or the PSN. If you cut out the need for disks, especially in this day and age when consoles are coming out with 250+gb hard drives then you can afford to release virtually anything and still make a profit.
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It's not that they wouldn't make a profit, it's that if you're going to hire a development team of software engineers for 2+ years, you wanna make sure it's worthwhile. And ideally you wanna make sure you can guarantee future sales of future titles using the IP. A full HL3 would cost too much to develop to satisfy the demands of PC gamers. Think how long the HL games are, now imagine making them up to the current graphical standards. It's insane. Shit I doubt it's even realistically feasible. How long has that Blackmesa HL1 remake mod been going? And all they had to do was rework existing levels with all the other assets and game design already done.

Think about it.
 
spine said:
It's not that they wouldn't make a profit, it's that if you're going to hire a development team of software engineers for 2+ years, you wanna make sure it's worthwhile. And ideally you wanna make sure you can guarantee future sales of future titles using the IP. A full HL3 would cost too much to develop to satisfy the demands of PC gamers. Think how long the HL games are, now imagine making them up to the current graphical standards. It's insane. Shit I doubt it's even realistically feasible. How long has that Blackmesa HL1 remake mod been going? And all they had to do was rework existing levels with all the other assets and game design already done.

Think about it.
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A. Valve makes games because they feel like it. End of story. Money and time meaning nothing to them.

B. The demand of PC gamers? Practically every game coming out today is a console port and we buy every single one. the HL is the most critically acclaimed property in PC gaming history. It's not even arguable. They could put a HL3 sticker on a dog turd and everyone would buy it just for a taste of HL3. It has nothing to do with the engine. HL is a cinematic experience. If anything they're still hammering out the story and from what Ive seen Portals reception kinda changed the direction they wanted to go with the story.

C. They're busy dude chillout, The Dev cycle between HL1 and HL2 is longer than now and Episode 2 and they've been working on other stuff in the mean time.

D. forget about Black mesa. It was and is managed by idiots. I've watched the entire dev cycle on that and people have come and gone on the project too many times to count. Additionally if the rumors stand Valve bought it and now thats a whole nother bag of worms.
 
spine said:
Absolutely not. snip...
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Let me get this straight... you think that because Valve has decided to not pin the entire companies future on the Half Life series and it's mods by developing other game series (L4D/Portal), that it means they aren't even going to bother with future Half Life games? So by that logic Blizzard, by developing Diablo, Starcraft, SC: Broodwar, Diablo 2, and D2: Lord of Destruction after releasing Warcraft 2: Beyond the Dark Portal in 1996 meant that they were never going to return to their flagship Warcraft franchise. Yet, in 2002 (a full 6 years after WC2: BtDP released), they launched Warcraft 3: RoC... and we all know where that eventually led.

Diversifying your IP is always a good business strategy, especially when those new IP are successful. No one what's to be a one trick pony after all. Doing so, however, will almost always delay your work on the next installment of your flagship franchise for obvious reasons. It doesn't mean it's never coming, it just means that you don't NEED it to come out in order to keep the company afloat. There's more Half Life coming. Gamers (console kiddies included) had no problem buying L4D and L4D2, even though they had never heard of it before (much like you say they probably have never head of Half Life). With that in mind, why would they have a problem buying a new HL game?

A game doesn't have to be from a recent established franchise to be successful (not that it doesn't help). So yes, COD games may sell millions when they release, but 2 months later the sales fall flat. Games like Half Life & Half Life 2 have steady sales figures (in the millions) for YEARS. It's more of a marathon than a sprint, but in the long run, they are more profitable than something like COD which has to develop and release a new game every 12 months in order to keep gamers attention. Not to mention the extra revenue from the Half Life mods that always follow (how many people still play CS:S after 6 years? Not to mention 1.6).

So yeah. I have no doubt that there is more Half Life on the way. I also have no doubt that it will be just as profitable (if not more so) than those that came before it. It has a huge following, and can easily draw in new fans with the inevitable console release. Honestly, it would be against their best interest NOT to continue the series.

piscian18 said:
They could put a HL3 sticker on a dog turd and everyone would buy it just for a taste of HL3.
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This.
 
I fucking hope so, the Source engine sucks shaft.

piscian18 said:
A. Valve makes games because they feel like it. End of story. Money and time meaning nothing to them.
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What utter shite. If that was sarcastic I missed it. If not you have bought far too heavily into Valve's - very good - marketing.
 
Yeah, well; after 3 years, one month and counting Ep3 still aint here, so...
 
The Source engine is looking dated. It's past time for a Source 2.0.

I'm also surprised the vote was that close.
 
Jellylesg said:
I fucking hope so, the Source engine sucks shaft.




What utter shite. If that was sarcastic I missed it. If not you have bought far too heavily into Valve's - very good - marketing.
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since theyre still not publically traded, hes probably not far off.
 
DDigital said:
Gamers (console kiddies included) had no problem buying L4D and L4D2, even though they had never heard of it before (much like you say they probably have never head of Half Life). With that in mind, why would they have a problem buying a new HL game?

A game doesn't have to be from a recent established franchise to be successful (not that it doesn't help). So yes, COD games may sell millions when they release, but 2 months later the sales fall flat. Games like Half Life & Half Life 2 have steady sales figures (in the millions) for YEARS.
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I agree with this. You don't have to know about the original Half Life game to buy into it. Just because the market has changed somewhat, does not mean a series such as Half Life still can't be successful. I mean, think about the fact that Duke Nukem Forever is going to release next year on PS3, 360, and PC... how many years has that been in development? I guarantee you that when that game drops and kids see it on the shelves, 90%+ won't know who the hell Duke Nukem is. And just like I have never played Fallout 1 or 2, I thoroughly enjoyed Fallout 3... I think a series can live on and still cater to the current generation of gamers. Granted, most of us are older and know of the franchises but games like Duke, Half Life, Fallout, and others whose names have been around for forever will always sell well just because people like shooting and blowing shit up.

And even Doom is a good example of how a series can live on without having to know what Doom is about... Doom 4 is in development already and i'm sure it'll be extremely successful. And remember, games like Doom and Half Life also fuel computer hardware sales... just like ATI had promotions for free copies of Half Life 2 if you bought a certain ATI graphics card while saying "Half Life 2: best played on ATI Radeon Graphics." And same story for Doom 3... it performed better on Nvidia hardware which made me buy the 6800GT at the time because it outperformed the best ATI card at the time in Doom.

Pc games just will not die. I agree that the market is changing, but I don't have a doubt that we are still in for a couple surprises ahead.
 
I see HL2 Ep 3 and HL3 being announced simulatious. HL 2 Ep 3 would be a prelude right into the events of HL3.

Would likely sell a ton of HL2 copies for extra mula.
 
piscian18 said:
B. The demand of PC gamers? Practically every game coming out today is a console port and we buy every single one. the HL is the most critically acclaimed property in PC gaming history. It's not even arguable. They could put a HL3 sticker on a dog turd and everyone would buy it just for a taste of HL3. It has nothing to do with the engine. HL is a cinematic experience. If anything they're still hammering out the story and from what Ive seen Portals reception kinda changed the direction they wanted to go with the story.
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I absolutely agree. Also, and many people seems to forget, Valve always shows its new engines with a new chapter of their HL saga. Source engine started with HL2...and then everything we have know came, all iterations of the same engine.

Now, EP3 or HL3? Who knows, either way the engine just doesn't matter. When you replay HL, you spend all the time in the train before everything begins watching to the so "out-to-date" graphics...but as soon as you get into the suit...you get plugged into the matrix again. The bugs. The incident. Blackmesa :D The HL saga has always hit really hard the market, not only because of its incredible playability, but because of its up-to-date graphics and huge optimization. And, PLUS, you get an incredible well mounted story to round up with... seriously, when I was ready to start HL2 I was nervous because the expectations for it were HUGE. I can't say it surpassed its predecessor but it was an awesome 2nd part (except the gun sounds, they were for the most part horrible, specially the pistol...), and then we got the episodes, both fantastic.

So, all in all it doesn't matter. Both Valve and Blizzard succed at their business because they do not hurry their franchises. Valve has been really clever lately selling simple titles such as L4D to keep making money while they can work on their big hits. We should be thankful for those two companies because they really keep the pc gaming afloat, as of today I don't think of any other company that means 1/4 of what any of those two companies mean for pc gaming because, can you imagine computer gaming without Starcraft? Warcraft? Diablo? Half life? Counter Strike? Duke Nukem? Doom? Quake? (although this last franchises haven't been successful in their last iterations due to lack of interest from their companies. QIV was a piece of shit, booooooooooooring).
 
you know what, at first i was thinking no way it will be on a new engine, but the more I think about it, they havnt released ANYTHING, no press releases, no pictures, no sneak peaks, no e3, no nothing on HL3, so I honestly wouldnt doubt they would make a new engine.
 
evanisthecoastie said:
since theyre still not publically traded, hes probably not far off.
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That is more PR bullshit. You remember how instead of refusing to become publically traded and getting on with life, they refused to become publically traded and made a big song and dance about it to the press to ensure their adoring fans knew about it and went "wowee aren't they so benevolent, it's like they make games because they love them and not to wring cash out of us!".

It's the same as companies branding their products with a wholesome rustic-looking packaging and slapping mean-nothing buzzwords all over it, with a PR-spun line on the back about "we here at Pepperidge Farms believe that our fat-riddled sugarcookies taste best when hand-milled from 100% organic bullshit" and so on. It's marketing. No company is in business today to do anything but make money.

Seriously, guys? You actually actually believe Valve only cares about making magnificent games like some kind of loving, benevolent game dev god? You also think they'd give you a reach-around because you bought EP 3?
 
Jellylesg said:
That is more PR bullshit. You remember how instead of refusing to become publically traded and getting on with life, they refused to become publically traded and made a big song and dance about it to the press to ensure their adoring fans knew about it and went "wowee aren't they so benevolent, it's like they make games because they love them and not to wring cash out of us!".

It's the same as companies branding their products with a wholesome rustic-looking packaging and slapping mean-nothing buzzwords all over it, with a PR-spun line on the back about "we here at Pepperidge Farms believe that our fat-riddled sugarcookies taste best when hand-milled from 100% organic bullshit" and so on. It's marketing. No company is in business today to do anything but make money.

Seriously, guys? You actually actually believe Valve only cares about making magnificent games like some kind of loving, benevolent game dev god? You also think they'd give you a reach-around because you bought EP 3?
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Yes and no. One, by keeping private, they don't have to cow-to to the idiot "shareholders" who only want to make profit and nothing else. Valve know their customers very well, they know that the end product of going public would be a disaster in the long run and the company will go down hill eventually and Gabe wouldn't have control like he should have. One of the reasons is that Valve have a progressive attitude and like new ideas, unlike the pathetic companies like Activison. And in order to do that you need to have an independent mindset.

Sure, it's part of the marketing, but it's also the truth. I am sure Gabe is getting very rich, he deserves it unlike most CEO's who make decisions that any monkey can make. He could probably have gotten even richer if he took the company public. But he didn't and won't. That says to me that he doesn't want to just turn a profit for it's own sake. It tells me he wants to make quality products and be financially well seated in order to do it. Steam and other cash cows are a means to be able to stay independent and not have to go with the flow like the rest of the bankrupt corporations who make shit and sell shit.

What Gabe has done with Valve is similar to what George Lucas did with his movies. But, unlike George "I'm to lazy to care" Lucas, Gabe has taken the money that HL series has made and turned it into something even bigger and it was a huge bet and it paid off. 10 years ago if you asked anyone, even me, if we would be buying the majority of our games online without a box or cd, I would have looked at you like you were retarded. Now, I don't even buy games unless it's via digital distribution. And all thanks to Valve and Steam.
 
Some of you tend to forget about a few things.

a) Companies entering the public market: they do it when they need to. Going public is a mean to get more money and grow when you need to. If you can get enough money from banks for what you want to do then it's pointless to go public because you are selling a part of your company (not always, because you could sell participations without political power :D I don't know the english word for that :cool: )

b) When you go public you don't have to sell everything. You can decide to put a 40% on the market and still control the company. So, going public doesn't mean that you lose control of your company, not at all.

With that being said, lets not be stupid: Valve is a company, and it only cares about profit. That being said, if the model they choose to follow is succesful, why change it? why turning into what other companies have become if they don't need to? As It is, Valve means a lot for many pc gamers not only for what it sells but for what it represents. Lets be honest here: how many pc gamers do not own any of Valve's titles? I, for one, think that I own all of them (all HL saga, DOD, CS and TF saga, L4D saga...) because all of them are worth every penny (or cent) you put on them. And that's the only reason...
 
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