Used Game Sales are 'Destructive' to Industry

Please stop using used cars as a comparison to used video games. They are completely different industries.
Auto companies DO make money on used cars. When you buy a used car and it breaks down where to you think the part to fix it comes from?
They also make money when you trade them in. See when you take your old car to trade in, they offer you enough on the trade in to cover the down payment you need to finance the new (or newer used car) you are purchasing. Guess who is lending you the money?
Hmm let me look at my Mazda 3 loan... "Ford Motors Financing"
What about "certified" used cars? who do you think certifies them and takes a cut?
I could keep going on, but I think you get the point
 
Couldn't get rid of Black Ops quick enough. Payed full price because NewEgg screwed up preorders. Sold yesterday on Craigslist for $40, no one was interested at $50.

I guess COD:BLOPS ain't doing so good?
 
Its sad to see the current state of PC video games; Console game prices for games that are ported from consoles with inferior quality and locked to modding community. There's no way I'm paying $60 for a buggy game that will soon have loads of hackers playing online. I think its good to be able to buy a used game at a reduced price to play the single player campaign and be done with it. Maybe splitting games into two parts for those who want to play the single player game with low replay value and for those who want to play the multiplayer version with high replay value.
 
eh, to play devils advocate...
there is no reason you need to buy a game when it first comes out. you can wait half year and buy it cheap on amazon. or wait for a steam sale and get it then.

and lets compare games to movies. a movie + snacks will probably run $25 per person for a couple of hours of entertainment. if you are lucky, it "won't suck". Notice I did not say it would be good, just that it would not suck. Actual good movies are that much harder to find.

By comparison most video games are much better bargains. Kane & Lynch 2 gives about the same value per movie dollar (unless you play multi). Others are much better. I usually get at least 12 hours out of games, many I see 30, 80 or in the hundreds. There is no comparison in entertainment dollars.

Now compare to movies. movies have no "first sale doctrine". you can't video tape the experience and sell it to your friend. The same should probably apply to games. once you experience it..... That being said, I think the $60 price point is way too high. $35 to $40 should be the max, although I am not adverse to some DLC.
 
Steam should be illegal in its current form for violating our first sale doctrine which allows us to sell the property that we buy, including software that claims to only give us a license. It doesn't solve anything for the consumer. It only solves this "problem" for the developer. We should be supporting Steam as little as possible.

Theres nothing stopping you from selling your steam account with the games. I can't think of a single digital distribution system that the first sale doctrine could apply to, which makes me think it doesn't apply to non-physical items. Steam is the greatest thing to ever enter the game industry. Anti-piracy measures that make the devs happy, without intruding on the users or limiting the number of PCs or installs you can perform. With the weekly sales, free weekends, guest passes, and built in friends list, I can't believe it isn't more widely used.
 
they can go get stuffed

here in aus, even with the dollar doing so well, they still charge $100-$120 for a new release
 
I love steam. I haven't paid more than $40 for a game in a long time and even those that I did pay that much for were only games that I knew were good. Most games aren't even worth that much. Let alone $60 or $70.
 
As a game developer, I found it amusing and ironic that as I clicked through to comment on this article, I got blasted for having adblock software running.

There's a parallel there, Steve, a remarkably close one.

This post is incredibly self centered and poorly thought you. I am sorry as a game dev you are not making more money, but to compare to adblocking software is nonsense.

Using ad blockers is the same as pirating a game. You are getting something without paying. Everytime a page loads, it costs Hardocp money to deliver it to you. A used game sale does not cost a developer anything. And dont use the online experience excuse, it is WEAK.

When a game is sold, a publisher sells certain promises along with it, like keeping online servers running. It doesn't matter who ends up with the game, the original $60 paid to the publisher still covers the online services for that 1 copy of the game. If someone else it used, then you still only have 1 copy of the game using the online services. If you are failing as a developer and can't make enough money, it probably has more to do with the quality of your work than anything else.
 
What that guy also doesn't mention, nor acknowledge, is the many people sell their old games so they can buy the expensive brand spanking new games, which in itself, actually increases new game sales.

In general I have found there are 2 types of gamers. Those that play the bleeding edge and new stuff right away, and those who operate cheaper, who wait for games to be cheap and used, and don't care about leading edge technology. These are the same people who operate using video cards and stuff that are a few years old, because they still run the games they want to play. The cheap ones. So that being said, I find what that dude said about used games sales, to be complete bullshit.
 
The only reason this is different than books is because games have always been software. The used book market is it's own business, and rare used books actually appreciate.

Moreover, Amazon isn't letting people resell their books either, iirc.

This is the transition period due to the change in internet structure; once broadband is readily available, devs & pubs can lock you in (steam) and shelf space in Retail has less meaning.

MMORPGS are already a service tied to an account. You can't resell your WoW account (legally, according to the ToS), and you knew that when you bought the game. The only way to resist it is to speak with your wallet, obviously. Don't buy the games that get locked to your account.

Too bad I already bought SC2 and that tells blizz that it's okay with me if that's whay they require to play.
 
Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out, since the developers and publishers don't see a penny of the resale, of course they aren't getting any extra cash to put into game development.
 
Please stop using used cars as a comparison to used video games. They are completely different industries.
Auto companies DO make money on used cars. When you buy a used car and it breaks down where to you think the part to fix it comes from?
They also make money when you trade them in. See when you take your old car to trade in, they offer you enough on the trade in to cover the down payment you need to finance the new (or newer used car) you are purchasing. Guess who is lending you the money?
Hmm let me look at my Mazda 3 loan... "Ford Motors Financing"
What about "certified" used cars? who do you think certifies them and takes a cut?
I could keep going on, but I think you get the point

Seriously? Are there really people this dumb around? If you don't like the (perfectly fine and valid) car example, then how about computer parts? Every Q6600 you guys buy on here is money that AMD and Intel don't make! OH MY GOD THEY ARE ENTITLED TO THAT MONEY! USED SALES OF COMPUTER PARTS MUST BE BANNED!

To put it simply and bluntly, WELCOME TO CAPITALISM! Game developers are NOT entitled to our money. ALL industries deal with used sales, but only content creators (mostly game developers/publishers) are complaining about LEGAL sales. (Movie/music people seem to stick to illegal transfers, though they push/abuse the law to get their way, as we all know)
 
No different than game rentals IMO... but then again I guess those are hurting the industry as well.
 
Gaming industry is one of the most obnoxious and whiny bunches out there. Sheesh.
 
Auto companies DO make money on used cars. When you buy a used car and it breaks down where to you think the part to fix it comes from?

And when an auto company needs to make another car in the production run they need to make another car, not just press a button that says duplicate x 10000.

Absolutely spot on with your analysis of how cars and games are wrong, however replace car with any fucking thing physical out there and you become an idiot, close down all garage sales, flea markets and other used outlets.
 
I'd like to see a forward thinking developer work out something with Valve that allows their Steam games to be resold, with a percentage of the sale going to Valve and the developer.

I honestly don't see the motive for either Valve or the developer. Why would they settle for the percentage when they are already getting the whole thing? They couldn't possibly sell enough additional "used" games this way to make up for not selling them "new".
 
Make content WORTH $60 bucks new and I might buy it. Then again, the fact they cost as much as they do these days has caused me to wait and simply buy one game I know I will like and ignore the rest.
 
Please stop using used cars as a comparison to used video games. They are completely different industries.
Auto companies DO make money on used cars. When you buy a used car and it breaks down where to you think the part to fix it comes from?
They also make money when you trade them in. See when you take your old car to trade in, they offer you enough on the trade in to cover the down payment you need to finance the new (or newer used car) you are purchasing. Guess who is lending you the money?
Hmm let me look at my Mazda 3 loan... "Ford Motors Financing"
What about "certified" used cars? who do you think certifies them and takes a cut?
I could keep going on, but I think you get the point

While I agree with you about car analogies being faulty and somewhat idiotic....many of your statements are as well.

Parts for your car do not always have to come from the dealer, in fact if you buy parts from a dealer you will be ripped off. Unless you have a warranty....which means you were already ripped off since those are mostly profit and do not have to come from the manufacturer anyway.

Trade in money has nothing to do with whoever made the car, it's the dealership. Trade in money is just a shell game anyway. If they give you more than your car is worth to the dealership for the trade in then your payments get extended or raised. The money comes from somewhere, and by somewhere I mean your pocket. Dealerships also give notoriously low money for trade ins, trade ins are a great way for the dealership to make money. There is FAR more profit in used car sales than new for dealerships and salespeople....the auto manufacturer sees little or none of that.

Loans can come from many sources, they are not limited to those supported wholly or in part by the car manufacturer.

Also, you entirely missed the real reason why the two industries can not be compared with any intelligence...the license you agree to when you purchase/install software limits what you can and can not do (legally) with the software. Like it or not. Rarely do you actually purchase a software title, you usually only rent it through the license.
 
The gaming industry is increasingly trying to squeeze as much out of the gamers pockets as they can. At this point they are just alienating their core customers. It was not our choice that they game developers an d publishers decided to spend millions on advertising and glitzy content (like paid voice actors). They are now trying to pass on these costs to the gaming community. These people don't get it. You make a great game... you don't need to spend millions on advertising.

I am all for digital distribution and keeping the games with the account. However, we deserve quality games with quality content and great prices... before submitting to loosing the right to resell a game. We should see cost reductions in games due to digital distribution, and cutting out the costs associated with a physical copy. I have not seen any of this, except with the indie games.
 
One game comes to mind.
Burnout Paradise.
Great game but the developer screwed up with the DLC and stopped releasing content for the PC version. Where the fuck is Big Surf Island and Cops & Robbers?

Last time I pay full price for anything Criterion develops.
 
llololol used games destructive to industry

hai, your face is destructive to victoria's secret magazine

:D
 
I can’t see how buying used games is any more ”destructive” to the industry than developers putting out broken-ass $60 games that have no replay value and need a patch on day one. Just sayin’.

Steve won the thread with his own post!

If games had some replay value, and didn't cost 60 dollars, and were released in a stage resembling early beta, perhaps most would hold onto their games . .. :eek: (shocker I know)
 
I was unable to read the original gamesindustry.biz article that CNET based their article on, but I'm hoping developers are not eyeballing whether or not we can buy/sell used games, but the huge profits Gamestop and other retail outlets are making on the sales of the used games. I think the smart thing for them to do is to pursue some sort of revenue sharing of used game sales profits with Gamestop instead of trying to restrict our ability to trade-in or buy used games.

And yeah, 10 years from now when we download everything, this will probably all be moot.

and why the fuck would gamestop give up some of its revenue?
 
What idiots. Are they suggesting that it's better to pirate than buy the games used? Wow, I can't believe they think used games are destructive. Could it be that they're just profit whores and want exorbitant amounts of money for bad products?
 
I posted this elsewhere, but holds true for this topic very much;

Let's just overlook facts like the developer already got their money for that game / license sold.

Next let's overlook the other fact that no matter who is playing it now, the developer has already had to factor in multiplayer / server / whatever support for that one game / license no matter who is using it. It's all to do with the game / license that is sold, not who is currently using it.

The 2nd hand stores are actually doing them a favor. That is enabling people to purchase another new game / license cheaper, but the developer still gets the same amount of money. The 2nd hand store doesn't run on fairy dust, so they then sell the older outdated game / license to someone else. Now, that is transparent to the developer as they already got their money for that particular game / license. There is nothing being "taken from" the developer AT ALL.

The sorts of "ideas" that attempt to lock down transparent transferrence should be met with contempt and piracy (punishment) to the greedy double dippers. They want to know what "being taken from" really means? Then pirate and give them a taste of how it really can be instead of dealing in 2nd hand games which already gave them money, and in the 2nd hand market does not affect them at all, but pirating will.

And this garbage about one install, I guess they know how well their games will stand the test of time..... not at all. They know it's garbage enough that you won't get nostalgic for it in 5-10 years time and install and play it again, because for starters, you won't be able to.

It's a shame it's codemasters that are now on my do not buy, but pirate instead list. They need to get rid of that guy before he totally ruins the company image.

Now as for dlc, that's another thing that boils my blood.....
 
The game publishers are all dicks. They want to stop the sale of used games any way they can.

To Wit: EA's recent charges to "Re-Activate" online play for $20.

I hate these frickin' greedy bastards.

Its $10 hence the name Project Ten Dollar and tell me how its a bad thing? Someone buys a game used and EA can still get some money off of it. Or if they're not big multiplayer fans, they can completely ignore it. Alternatively they can pay the extra $5 to Gamestop and buy it for MSRP.

Its not a bad idea, at least its better then bitching about used sales destroying the industry while still supporting the very company they're bitching about.
 
Its $10 hence the name Project Ten Dollar and tell me how its a bad thing? Someone buys a game used and EA can still get some money off of it. Or if they're not big multiplayer fans, they can completely ignore it. Alternatively they can pay the extra $5 to Gamestop and buy it for MSRP.

Its not a bad idea, at least its better then bitching about used sales destroying the industry while still supporting the very company they're bitching about.

It IS a bad idea. The game has already been paid for and it is none of EA's business if the game gets sold to someone else. They are not going to make any additional money if someone doesn't sell the game. And this is just going to turn people off from buying their crap and people will hopefully spend their money on games from publishers that don't try to screw them over.

By the way, to the moron who hated the car analogy earlier, I should have pointed out that car warranties are, by law, transferable. Your whole argument now = trash.
 
I wait until Steam has a price i'm willing to pay for PC titles.

if its a 360 title, I wait until I can rent it if I absolutely -must- play it. chances are i'm going to just beat it anyway before I have to return it. why spend more than I have to?
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
They raise game and DLC prices while complaining about used game sells. I'm not buying that garbage.
 
I can’t see how buying used games is any more ”destructive” to the industry than developers putting out broken-ass $60 games that have no replay value and need a patch on day one. Just sayin’.

Steve nailed it on the head there, I agree with every word man.

I look for BARGAINS before I buy games these days, no day 1 purchases for me.

I wait for the games to be $40 or less before buying, and often by then the game has had a patch or 2.
 
I don't understand the people who are up in arms over game makers and game publishers getting money instead of middlemen like Gamestop.

Why do they want Gamestop to gobble up the money? So they can save $5-$15?

The game publishers are not blameless, however. If they'd sell their games cheaper to start with or if we could count on price drops in 2-3 months, none of this would be an issue.
 
I don't understand the people who are up in arms over game makers and game publishers getting money instead of middlemen like Gamestop.

Why do they want Gamestop to gobble up the money? So they can save $5-$15?

The game publishers are not blameless, however. If they'd sell their games cheaper to start with or if we could count on price drops in 2-3 months, none of this would be an issue.

you CAN count on price drops within 2-3 months, almost every game drops in price except the most AAA of AAA titles.
 
It IS a bad idea. The game has already been paid for and it is none of EA's business if the game gets sold to someone else. They are not going to make any additional money if someone doesn't sell the game. And this is just going to turn people off from buying their crap and people will hopefully spend their money on games from publishers that don't try to screw them over.

By the way, to the moron who hated the car analogy earlier, I should have pointed out that car warranties are, by law, transferable. Your whole argument now = trash.

Surprisingly it does no such thing. Sales of EA sports titles have not suffered due to PTD (I'm not spelling it out every time), at least not that I've heard. Both Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age Origins were sort of part of PTD as well. Though they were both prior to the start of the project. EA has PTD, THQ has Fan Axess for SvR (same idea, different entirely optional implementation). Its better then bitch and moaning about used sales while continuing to drive people to shop at Gamestop, the very company they're bitching about. I doubt PTD would be a big hit outside of sports games though, but for them it seems to be working.

You can piss and moan about whether its right or not but the simple fact is this: Its either publishers do stuff like this or they find other ways to impede used sales. Lesser of two evils.
 
Seriously? Are there really people this dumb around? If you don't like the (perfectly fine and valid) car example, then how about computer parts?

no, I agree that used cars are NOT a good comparison to used games. A lot of new cars would plummet drastically if you couldn't sell your used car. Used books, however are a good comparison.

I got blasted for having adblock software running.
.

I know you didn't just say you use an ad blocker on the [H] forum. If so, you are pretty dumb and nice seeing ya.
 
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