Licensed software cannot be resold accord to courts

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Dr. Righteous

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This really brings the SUCK.
I buy the majority of the PC games I play off ebay. I can't afford to pay the high premiums when they are new. I wait to they are month and sometimes years old and are affordable before I buy a copy. I buy off my Steam account also, but they are EXPENSIVE on Steam sometimes.

I see this decision will urge all software publishers to move to a "License" agreement rather than selling a copy business model.

In other words; you cannot SELL the copy you PAID for. You didn't BUY the software you bought the right to use it. Like leasing a car, you don't own it, you are just paying out the arse to use it for a while. The EULA also stipulates you must DESTROY any copies of the software that is unused (old version, superseded by a new version)


http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...or-ruling-upholds-tough-software-licenses.ars
 
These laws will never stand the test of time. Practicality will prevail.
 
Just another reason to pirate games, it almost seems like they are trying to force people to do it. Oh here let me throw $60 at you to play your game for its 40hrs of gameplay and then set fire to the disk to prevent any further use.
 
Kinda sounds like a bunch of hairy back bullshit.

I say keep on buying used if you want and ignore the whiney *AA's and corporations who haven't figured out how to properly market and sell their products yet.
 
Actually this has been the case for years, if not decades, for a lot of commercial software, so it is by no means anything new.

This ruling has no impact on the entertainment side of things. You will still be able to buy games on ebay, and you will still not be able to sell your used Steam games. Really no cause for concern here.
 
Thuleman said:
Actually this has been the case for years, if not decades, for a lot of commercial software, so it is by no means anything new.

This ruling has no impact on the entertainment side of things. You will still be able to buy games on ebay, and you will still not be able to sell your used Steam games. Really no cause for concern here.
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You are totally missing the implications of this.

All the software publishers were watching how this case would turn out and the "unreasonable and unfair" EULA was upheld by the courts.

Basically they can treat us like thieves now if we try to recoup some of our investment in software.
 
The US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit<snip>
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That's all I needed to know. Why does the Ninth Circus hate America?


Sigh. Say hello to new restrictions on eBay and Craigslist and goodbye to used software.
 
Dr. Righteous said:
You are totally missing the implications of this.
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Not at all, I just choose to be not of the "the sky is falling" mentality.
It's a law that's not enforceable when it comes to consumer entertainment titles. Not enforceable = irrelevant for practical considerations.

It's one thing for a software publisher to go after handful sellers of $3,500 software and an entirely different thing to track down hundreds of thousands of sellers of used PC/console games.

... and "unfair" law ..., that's your argument? Really?
 
Easily solved. While you may not be allowed to sell the software, you are perfectly within your rights to sell the packaging and include the cd/dvd for free. Happened many times on ebay over the years with concert tickets. They give them away but charge $75 postage.
 
Skirrow said:
Easily solved. While you may not be allowed to sell the software, you are perfectly within your rights to sell the packaging and include the cd/dvd for free. Happened many times on ebay over the years with concert tickets. They give them away but charge $75 postage.
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hey that's pretty clever and all, but according to the feds, any batshit crazy rules they feel like typing out are now legally binding. so catch-all terms like "non-transferable" will mean just that, simply changing hands is illegal, and you are not actually allowed to give it away for someone else to use.

this problem will fix itself, the further they push it down the slope, again making many lawyers extremely wealthy along the way.
 
Skirrow said:
Easily solved. While you may not be allowed to sell the software, you are perfectly within your rights to sell the packaging and include the cd/dvd for free. Happened many times on ebay over the years with concert tickets. They give them away but charge $75 postage.
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Right, but if you were actually taken to court over that the judge would smack you upside the head if you try and use that as an excuse.
 
Thuleman said:
It's one thing for a software publisher to go after handful sellers of $3,500 software and an entirely different thing to track down hundreds of thousands of sellers of used PC/console games.
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Practical to enforce or not, it will likely have a chilling effect by discouraging the larger retailers (like Amazon, eBay and such) from supporting used sales of software. Combine with the potential for 'people to be made examples of' like the RIAA and MPAA are so fond of doing. Further, this validates EULAs in general and may support further aggression against users/consumers by software companies in their already ridiculous EULAs. It's not good precedent no matter how you spin it.

Right, but if you were actually taken to court over that the judge would smack you upside the head if you try and use that as an excuse.
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So would eBay, this kind of thing is explicitly against their policies. Though really? Selling event tickets is actually illegal where you live? Ridonculous.
 
g3no said:
Just another reason to pirate games, it almost seems like they are trying to force people to do it. Oh here let me throw $60 at you to play your game for its 40hrs of gameplay and then set fire to the disk to prevent any further use.
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The company doesn't get any money from you if you buy a used game.
The company doesn't get any money from you if you pirate a game.

not that I condone piracy...

/puts on flame suit
 
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It's always fun when someone says something is yet another reason to pirate.
 
Software has always been "licensed", but it is surprising that they ruled that the first-sale doctrine doesn't apply here. Their standard for determining when software is licensed rather than sold seems like something pulled from a publisher's wet-dream:

"We hold today that a software user is a licensee rather than an owner of a copy where the copyright owner (1) specifies that the user is granted a license; (2) significantly restricts the user&#8217;s ability to transfer the software; and (3) imposes notable use restrictions."
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What a crock of a test that is, since the publisher is the one that establishes all of that.

Guess all the eBay storefronts will have to move out of the 9th District's area now.
 
This seems like a specific case.

i.e., if I buy a Windows 7 upgrade license, I can't go resell my old XP license.

In this case, the software reseller cannot sell old copies of Autodesk that have been used for discounted upgrade licenses.

The copies Vernor picked up at the architect's sale were old copies that had not been destroyed as required.
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Xee said:
Right, but if you were actually taken to court over that the judge would smack you upside the head if you try and use that as an excuse.
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"But Your Honor, it would cost me at least $75 in gas money to ship those tickets in my H2."
 
calebb said:
This seems like a specific case.

i.e., if I buy a Windows 7 upgrade license, I can't go resell my old XP license.

In this case, the software reseller cannot sell old copies of Autodesk that have been used for discounted upgrade licenses.
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Problem is that they've taken that one special case, and made a ruling that now applies to all software (at least that's the way I read it). So by trying to help himself, the plaintiff here has screwed us all.
 
Of course it seems like the only corporate interests represented during this trial would be the copyright holders. I'm guessing this will be challenged and either fail or be made more specific when companies like Gamestop challenge it. They can't just flip the law on it's head like that when there are long term practices and business models built on the law as it was. And it seems to me that this was originally a case of the contract being violated.....you can't sell an old license when used to upgrade to a new version license it must be destroyed.

So either something has been left out, like the part where they said you can't sell licensed software (that fit specific criteria) when..... a) it was used to upgrade to a newer version which you use. b) denied by the agreement in which you stated you would destroy it. Or it will be challenged and fail.

And if the person truly did make an agreement where they would destroy the old license in the upgrade process...then that's something neither first sale doctrine or licensed software would cover but would be (in my mind) a matter of contract fulfillment.
 
I don't care. The couple bucks i make from selling used games don't hurt me either way. Whatever.

Sounds snobbish but you know what? Can't afford something, then don't buy it. Your poverty sickens me.
 
Game software drops so much in price nowdays (well most at least) that it is not even worth buying it second hand. I have no problem with this ruling.
 
g3no said:
Just another reason to pirate games, it almost seems like they are trying to force people to do it.
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Really? if you can't afford it or don't want to pay for it, it isn't justifiable to steal it. There is not force involved in piracy only laziness and cheapness. I have no sympathy for the pirate, even if EA decided to charge $2000 for it's next call of duty. There is still no reason to pirate it unless you are lazy (don't want to work for it) or cheap (don't want to pay for it). If you can't afford it, than to bad, that's life. I can't afford yacht but I live fine without it. (and if you really can't afford a $60 video game I think you have more to worry about than playing video games).
 
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Staples said:
Game software drops so much in price nowdays (well most at least) that it is not even worth buying it second hand. I have no problem with this ruling.
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Part of the reason games drop so much in price is because of the second-hand market. If the only way to ever buy a game is to buy it direct from the publisher - how do you think that will affect pricing? The answer - not in a good way.

I saw that he was going to ask the full panel of 11 judges to rule, so it may still get overturned at the Ninth Circuit level.
 
g3no said:
Just another reason to pirate games, it almost seems like they are trying to force people to do it. Oh here let me throw $60 at you to play your game for its 40hrs of gameplay and then set fire to the disk to prevent any further use.
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40 hours? wasnt COD4:mw2 and mafia 2, sub 10 hours each?
 
I dont care. When game is too expensive I just wait for Steam sale while playing other games - I have long backlog anyway.
 
This ruling only applies in the USA and I don't live in the USA so until we have a similar ruling here it is business as usual and they can shove their EULAs up their ass.
 
mortonP said:
This ruling only applies in the USA and I don't live in the USA so until we have a similar ruling here it is business as usual and they can shove their EULAs up their ass.
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Actually it only applies in a part of the US, but even so, it is a disturbing precedent.
 
What's the difference between this and re-selling console games? Does this mean that they are moving to stop the reselling of console games?
 
CannonDub said:
What's the difference between this and re-selling console games? Does this mean that they are moving to stop the reselling of console games?
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Well whens the last time your console game had a eula? I personally have never seen one but maybe they do exist.
 
Modern Warfare 2 makes $500,000,000 in one week.

Whenever you hear developers whine about re-selling or piracy, just keep telling yourself that. $500,000,000 in one week, one game.
 
Forceman said:
Part of the reason games drop so much in price is because of the second-hand market. If the only way to ever buy a game is to buy it direct from the publisher - how do you think that will affect pricing? The answer - not in a good way.
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Actually ..., obviously there is a second hand market for games, this means that there are any number of consumers who are not willing to pay full price. There are also consumers who are willing to pay full release retail but only because they know that they will be able to make some cash back by reselling. If resale is no longer an option those who paid will price will no longer do so, and those who were unwilling to pay full price in the first place will keep doing that. The only way out for publishers would be to lower prices.
 
munkle said:
Well whens the last time your console game had a eula? I personally have never seen one but maybe they do exist.
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How long do you think it will take them to slap one on there, if this ruling stands? About as long as it takes to copy and paste one from one of their PC games, is my guess.
 
Forceman said:
How long do you think it will take them to slap one on there, if this ruling stands? About as long as it takes to copy and paste one from one of their PC games, is my guess.
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i don't see them being binding at all unless you agreed to it at the time of purchase. Since most places won't let you return open software and you can't read the eula till you actually open the software there really isn't much legal ground for these types of things to hold up on. The court decision applies to eula that the user agreed too not to the actual sale. This guy bought software from an non legit seller, we don't know the actual sale/license terms this company agreed to when first buying/leasing their software from autodesk. But if you buy something and there was no eula at the sale or anything indicating you only own a license at the sale then there really isn't much ground to stand on.

I think many people are reading too much into this case.
 
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