Asus v. HP reputations

I have never purchased a laptop (I dislike that I cant add and subtract components like my desktop ). As such I am a little out of the game regarding which company has the better reputation/customer service/breaks less. As I cant open this up to tweak it if something breaks I want to ensure I get a good warranty on either of the computers listed below s as my parents are purchasing a laptop for me for my wedding present. The spec's for both of them are below as well as a couple of overall general questions. Keep in mind I have a decent knowledge of computers, but dont know what might be considered overkill on a mobile computer (I do lots of rendering at home, but wont w/ this computer), and have little knowledge about laptop warranty's (what you want it to cover and what doesn't matter). We use HP laptops at work and they run decent (for work computers) and dont break too often given their abuse. However at work we dont deal with HP customer service but an internal department so I have no experience w/ their customer service/warranty. I also have purchased many many products from Asus but only components to date (mostly GPU and Mobo's) and have never had too much trouble with them RMA'ing boards and the like.

Base price is about the same for both (the HP is more due to tax and shipping). I simply want the best computer (with a good warranty) and if I have to sacrifice a couple spec's to get a more dependable one am more than willing to do so. Goal is for this to last about 3 or 4 years (and with these spec's as long as it doesnt break I can see that). Also plan later on to add a 120 gig SSD to speed things up perhaps (pipe dream at this point)

Asus spec's:


HP Laptop:

So here are my questions:


Primary use will be just a vacation PC and for my wife's work. We plan on installing photoshop and a couple other graphics programs but nothing like 3dsmax, Rhino, CAD or the like.

Honestly, all I needed to see was "HP Pavilion" and I'd run from it, as fast as I possibly can. HP simply makes shitty consumer grade laptop, period, end of story, nobody is ever going to be able to prove otherwise, done.

Personally - and I mean that so take it from that perspective - I wouldn't buy or own an AMD powered laptop, by anybody but that's just me. As a guy that's been working on computers for several decades now, I can say that based on the experience of having thousands of laptops in front of me on my test bench, AMD-powered machines probably outnumber Intel-powered hardware by a factor of 10 to 1, and I'm dead serious about it. I'm not trying to sway you from such a purchase, that's entirely up to you (and I'm sure other people will offer me a shitload of flak for it) but, that's how it goes. I am an Intel guy and always will be.

Having said that I would recommend you looking into either a Core 2 Duo or Pentium Dual Core machine (the Pentium Dual Core is a Core 2 Duo actually, just rebranded and with less L2 cache than a similar speed C2D would have so it's cheaper to produce) or even an i3 or i5 at this point. Why?

Because you stated you wanted it to be a machine that lasts 3-4 years and the current lineup of Core 2 Duo processors that exist are pretty much the last ones that are going to be made soon as Intel shifts to making Core processors (the i3, i5, i7, etc) exclusively.

But that's a lot of my personal opinions, let's answer your questions or offer advice on those primarily:

1. Dual/Triple cores enhance the overall performance of the OS making it a smoother experience, and more and more software is becoming multi-core aware (aka it's written better and that means properly multithreaded). The apps you mentioned (Photoshop and some other graphics related ones) will most definitely work better with those processors, but as for dual vs triple, well, it's not going to be that much in your average daily use.

2. All that RAM on the video card doesn't really mean much of anything anymore. Not much actually makes use of it all unless you're talking about the most hardware-intensive games on the market today, like trying to play Crysis at 1920x1200 or something with 60 fps (HA!) so, it's not a big concern. 512MB, 1GB, you'll get effectively the same performance overall with either, honestly. The better higher end GPUs will come in handy with Photoshop and maybe those graphics apps if they're later/newer versions because most of the good stuff is not only multithreaded for all those processor cores but they leverage the power of your video card GPU to help do rendering activities and process data too.

3. This one's a troublemaker as "better" or "best" is 100% relative - my personal opinion goes along with what I said earlier about HP and their Pavilion line of laptops. They're shit, end of story. Now, if we're talking about HP's EliteBooks and ProBooks - their business class laptops - that's a completely totally different story because all of those kick ass (the more expensive, the more ass that gets kicked, obviously). I personally prefer the business class laptops from Dell (the Latitude and Precision models), HP (already mentioned), and potentially Lenovo's ThinkPads but it depends on the models. Lenovo makes their own branded "Lenovo" line of hardware but they also make ThinkPads now, so I'm talking about ThinkPads only and not their name-branded stuff.

Asus doesn't have a business class machine lineup so all their stuff is consumer grade but, it's typically "high end" consumer grade so, it's fairly decent stuff. It's loaded more often than not, gets excellent reviews, and is somewhat decent in the pricing as well so they are definitely a brand to consider.

4. I can't really say, most laptops that have off-center touchpads are that way because of a large LCD (like a 17" or larger model) and the keyboard has a full size numeric keypad on the right side so it "shifts" the touchpad to the left somewhat to keep it centered under the main keyboard. After looking at the pics of that Asus you've mentioned above I gotta say that's a bit odd to me, shoving a numeric keypad onto a machine with a 15.6" LCD panel. That's pushing it in my opinion... don't think I'd get that machine myself but, again it's your decision but that's the reason it's shifted to the left and off-center axis of the laptop itself.

5. Based on what I've said above, for myself I'd be looking at a Dell Latitude/Precision, or perhaps an HP EliteBook/ProBook, Intel powered with at least an i3 in it, 4GB of RAM and more if I could afford it, the LCD size isn't what I consider relevant - the resolution is so I'd be aiming for 1440x900 or even 1680x1050 which is incredibly incredibly tough to get nowdays. That 1366x768 resolution is pure shit I think (again, personal opinion) and I won't buy a laptop with that, it's ridiculous... I'd be expecting at least a 320GB SATA II hard drive because I care about space - an SSD would be nice but, unless they've got a 320GB model at the same price as the 320GB hard drive, I'll take the hard drive.

Also, with those business class laptops, typically they'll come with a much longer warranty (Dell Latitudes usually have a 3 year) and you can spend a few bucks more and make it on-site so they'll actually come to your home/etc to do the repair; you're not required to ship it away. That's not always the case but, because the laptops are in that "business class" the warranty and the level of customer service is far greater than your standard consumer grade tech support stuff.

To be flat out blunt: I wouldn't buy either of those machines you've posted info about, but that's just me.

6. Not that I can think of, I'm sure others will chime in with their opinions. Take time to read what other people say, put it all together, do a lot of research, check out NotebookReview.com - seriously, no kidding - and read up on the models that are getting the best reviews, check their forums for opinions on models, etc etc.

You can get some great machines for about $800 in the business class from Dell, HP, and even some ThinkPads too. But if you're looking at the consumer grade "pretty shiny shit" then you'll find something that appeals to you from the function as well as form factors.

Do a lot of research then pick one that not only fulfills all the functionality you need (my primary concern) and then perhaps fills in some needs/wants for the form factor (what it looks like, which is way down the list for me). I prefer plain old black laptops that get the job done, I don't give a damn about pretty shiny high gloss fingerprint magnets like those HP Pavilions and even some of the Asus models. Gimme matte black for life...

I know you said HELP ASAP! but, take a bit of time and wait for more responses and opinions before committing to any purchase, at least a week or so. That's my best advice.

Good luck.

Bahamut said:

the LCD size isn't what I consider relevant - the resolution is so I'd be aiming for 1440x900 or even 1680x1050 which is incredibly incredibly tough to get nowdays. That 1366x768 resolution is pure shit I think (again, personal opinion) and I won't buy a laptop with that, it's ridiculous...

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Yeah, this just pisses me off to no end.

These crappy, glossy low res displays they are putting in all these consumer oriented laptops. Jesus...who ever decided that 1366x768 should be the standard needs a kick in the groin. Since they insist on 16x9 displays, they should be using 1600x900 res panels in them. Dell offers some of their Latitudes with 1600x900 panels in their 15.4 inch models. I know some folks really dislike glossy LCDs, but for me the low resolution is more of a problem.


But like Bahamut said, any of Dells business oriented laptops (Latitude, Vostro, Precision), HP Elitebook/Probook and of course Lenovo Thinkpads are all solid choices.

You are going to generally spend more money with these...but you also gain better warranties/support and machines that will generally hold up better to daily use and abuse.

Another thing to keep in mind is the ease of upgrading in which some of the business grade machines are designed for. Need to swap out the hard drive? ram? wifi card? bluetooth module? cellular card? Easy. Hell, want to put in a new keyboard? Not a problem.

I have a pair of approx. 3 year old Dell laptops - Latitude D620 (1440x900 res panel) and a Precision M4300 (1920x1200 panel - ohh my!) so I can speak from experience on how much better they are built. I have been in and out of these machines a dozen times or more moving components around and haven't had an issue with breaking anything. Not even those silly little plastic tabs that hold bezel pieces in place. Hell, I swapped out the original 1280x800 LCD panel for the 1440x900 in the D620 in about 30 minutes. That time even included putting the 1280x800 back in the original donor machine.


Bottom line - business class machines are built better and are designed to (generally) be more friendly to being opened up and upgraded or having parts replaced.

Well here's the rub on price. I have around 700-750 to spend total (shipping and tax not included), and I cant really go over that. I liked the HP I posted because I got a work discount that made it hit right around there and the spec’s looked good, but spec’s don’t tell the whole story hence my post. At work we upgraded from HP NC6400’s to HP Elitebook’s and I do like the Elitebook’s better, but I also liked the NC6400’s (both business lines). That plus the discount were why I was looking at them.

Regarding Dell’s I have never had good luck with them. My wife bought a Dell (albeit cheap one) and its given her nothing but problems from the onset. She has had a HDD go bad, Mobo go bad and it runs slower than crap. In addition I have friends whose Dell laptop (XPS no less) crapped out quick (bad mobo and then bad GPU) as well as their XPS desktop (blew a capacitor). For those reasons along with my pricing I wrote them off so they are not an option (wife won’t even consider them).

I don’t need cool finishes and that hasn’t even really been considered. I also want to keep it on the small size for travel reasons. I don’t need a massive screen or resolution so the resolution on those screens is honestly fine for what it will be used for (when not at home). I will probably buy a docking station later and attach a 25" screen or better for my wife to use (I have a 25” myself and love it), so the screen would be viewed just when traveling, lazy or @ school. The SSD was mentioned simply because it would speed the system up. That upgrade wouldn’t probably happen for at least a year or more (if ever).

The goal is to order by Labor Day on the chance of massive sales during this week, so I have some time, but don’t want to over research it.

I guess if someone wants to give me some options here are my requirements:

Brand: HP, Asus or other reputable brands (NO Dell or Sony)
CPU: No less than a dual core, prefer AMD for price but Intel for performance. Looking primarily for i3 or higher on Intel
GPU: Dedicated 5xxx series ATI card
Memory: 4 gig min
OS: Windows 7
HDD: 320 or higher prefer 7200 rpm if possible
Screen size: 15.6” or smaller

With that said Newegg is featuring another option that just popped up so I am adding this to the running (differences noted in bold).


HP Pavilion DV6-3050US

Bahamut is right...
Asus does make great laptops but I hear bad things on RMA and support.

HP is Meh for consumer grade stuff but if you take care of the laptop and as long as you dont get a POS nvidia you should be fine for hp's "cheap stuff" but I know for RMA for both consumer and business lines are top notch in my book.

When I needed a new fan for my 8710w (business line) they came to me at my house and put in a new heaksink and fan, within 10mins he was out.

Now for my DV7 which has the said POS nvidia (G105) they send out a box with a prepaid label, I didnt have to pay anything and it takes about 2 weeks or less including shipping to get it back.

With that said. I would go with business line laptops since they are MUCH better build. Look on ebay for "last year" model since they always go cheaper.

LOCO LAPTOP said:

Bahamut is right...
Asus does make great laptops but I hear bad things on RMA and support.

HP is Meh for consumer grade stuff but if you take care of the laptop and as long as you dont get a POS nvidia you should be fine for hp's "cheap stuff" but I know for RMA for both consumer and business lines are top notch in my book.

When I needed a new fan for my 8710w (business line) they came to me at my house and put in a new heaksink and fan, within 10mins he was out.

Now for my DV7 which has the said POS nvidia (G105) they send out a box with a prepaid label, I didnt have to pay anything and it takes about 2 weeks or less including shipping to get it back.

Click to expand...

Don't like Nvidia for GPU's at all so thats not a problem. I personally have had experience w/ Asus for RMA on motherboards and it went OK, but not the best so thats good to know.

LOCO LAPTOP said:

HP is Meh for consumer grade stuff but if you take care of the laptop and as long as you dont get a POS nvidia you should be fine for hp's "cheap stuff" but I know for RMA for both consumer and business lines are top notch in my book.

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Good to know about the cust service for RMA, was looking for as much info on that as possible.

Do not want to go used or ebay for this. I need/want new for warranty purposes and am just going to have to bite that premuim as a result and am ok with it.
Other purchases I am ok w/ used but not this particular one.

How about this? it has an intel gpu that the only down side.
http://www.compusa.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6449902&CatId=4005

LOCO LAPTOP said:

How about this? it has an intel gpu that the only down side.
http://www.compusa.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6449902&CatId=4005

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Yup, and for that reason I cant do it. I want a dedicated graphics card on the machine. I can go w/ a 4xxx series ATI if need be (w/o a build in blu-ray player bitstreamed lossless audio is out anyway), but prefer the 5xxx series for its performance and lower power draw.

Next question is how big a deal is the 5400 v. 7200 RPM HDD going to make? I obviously could void the warranty and replace, but looking at them I have a quad core w/ 5400 HDD and a triple core w/ 7200 HDD and the fastest dual core w/ 7200 HDD. Which combo is better long term?

I would never buy Asus ever again in a laptop after the Z71V design disaster.

In the real world you won't notice 5400 vs 7200. By real world I mean people who will e-mail, browse web, word process, some gaming, etc.

If you're intending like graphic design or heavy adobe processes then you may notice

danyune said:

I would never buy Asus ever again in a laptop after the Z71V design disaster.

In the real world you won't notice 5400 vs 7200. By real world I mean people who will e-mail, browse web, word process, some gaming, etc.

If you're intending like graphic design or heavy adobe processes then you may notice

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That was basically what I needed to know. Not much graphic work gonna be done on it, just random as the wife wants to touch up photos. With all that I think I am going to go w/ the quad core HP laptop, but will wait till late tonight to make that final call so if you have an opinion one way or the other please chime in now.

So here are my questions:

1. Is it better to have a faster dual core or a slower triple core (some programs still don't handle multiple core's well I believe)?

For gaming faster dual core, for everything else, triple core

2. How big a deal is the extra memory for the video card if any?

On the 5400, no performance difference, for power usage, more for the 1GB

3. Which company has the better rep for laptops?

About the same, but my personal preference would be Asus. I can't stand HP's bloatware

4. How big a deal is it that the touchpad on the Asus is off center?

No idea.

5. Which would you get and why?

Triple core. But really I'd get an i3. Faster, more efficient. More "future" proof. Gaming is going to suck 5400/discrete less sucky with the 5400. I have one for my htpc... I would know.

6. Any other misc things that should be considered.

I know you're on a budget but I'd try to get a higher res screen. I can't stand low res screen i.e. big pixelated icos and letters

EndersShadow said:

That was basically what I needed to know. Not much graphic work gonna be done on it, just random as the wife wants to touch up photos. With all that I think I am going to go w/ the quad core HP laptop, but will wait till late tonight to make that final call so if you have an opinion one way or the other please chime in now.

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Jesus 25 lbs? I'd built me an ITX/mATX comp w/ a 460 and call it a day

my best friend used to work for company in romania that handled service for sony, asus, toshiba , dell and hp and by the number of units sent for repairs hp was on top closely followed by toshiba and sony, asus beeing the last when it came to how many units were received, but this was about 3 years ago im not very up to date now

The primary reason HP remains on top (in terms of repairs) compared to the others? They sell more of 'em... but they're pieces of shit just the same (the consumer grade stuff).

Asus just started pumping out laptops en masse only about 1.5 years ago and barely any prior to that so, their market penetration is a drop in the bucket compared to the "big ones" like Dell, HP, etc.

But anyway...

Ignore the amd bashing here, they have no clue what they are talking about, or commit the steady state fallacy about chip lines (i.e. the characteristics of past chip lines, by default, carry over into the newer lines - there is no improvement on thermals or performance or reliability, what has been, always shall be)

That type of thinking about chips is really REALLY flawed.


intels newest iseries of chips are the most advanced, and do more work per clock than the amd chips. AMD knows this, they compensated on the low to mid range end by adding more cores. This is the result, pay attention to actual performance charts as opposed to peoples perceptions about performance.


the triple core n830 total performance level

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Phenom+II+N830+Triple-Core

right around the performance of an i3


the quad core amd n930

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_lookup.php?cpu=AMD+Phenom+II+N930+Quad-Core

that puts it right around the performance if the intel core i5 series.


Note, the per core speed advantage goes to intel, they matched the triple and quad core variants from amd with dual cores, but if what you are looking at is total performance, they are around the same.

In single threaded applications the i series will pull ahead, but programs that require alot of cpu horsepower usually take advantage of multiple cores anyway, and the programs that don't are usually not taxing in the first place.

As far as thermals, users of the amd quads report LOWER peak temperatures than i5 users.

http://forum.notebookreview.com/har...tel-core-i5-430m-vs-amd-phenom-ii-n930-4.html



The key advantage of the intels is battery life, and top level performance. AMD has NO anser to the i7 quad from intel on the notebook side. But then that is not what you are looking for in the first place.

Consider the uninformed amd write offs overruled. the triple or quad should perform just fine, and if the price is right for the total system, go for it.


EDIT:

a faster dual core would probably be a bigger benefit in gaming, but seeing as you are not going for laptops with powerful graphics in the first place, I don't see that is a big issue.

Thanks for the continued input. Went with the Quad Core AMD system. Couldnt pass up that deal. The 5xxx series GPU turns off when on battery power (which the wife wont ever really notice honestly) and the internal GPU is a 4xxx series.

That is more than enough for her light usage at school paired with SIMS computer gaming (thats about all I think she will ever play on it).

I realized core to core Intel is the performance king, but AMD therefore has compensated w/ price.

I will let you guys know if there are any issues, but aside from bloatware which some hours reformatting or uninstalling will fix, I think its a win.

As stated the resolution isnt the best, but its the same size as my work laptop and that works fine for me and will for her. For home purposes we will more than likely buy her a docking station w/ wireless mouse, keyboard and a bigger external screen.

your wife has a x4 notebook with a dedicated 5xxx series GPU?

is she a gamer?

Adidas4275 said:

your wife has a x4 notebook with a dedicated 5xxx series GPU?

is she a gamer?

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Yeah, She plays the SIMS

Shockey said:

Yeah, She plays the SIMS

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I wonder how strong your graphics card needs to be to run that game. last I checked if you could run minesweeper and solitaire, you could run sims.

tybert7 said:

I wonder how strong your graphics card needs to be to run that game. last I checked if you could run minesweeper and solitaire, you could run sims.

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LOL. I know I know..... I am going to use it at times and I am going to get her into Photoshop and some other graphic apps. She wants to learn them to touch up photo's and I need it to potentially do some video editing when not at our apartment. Those will use the GPU plus I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Like I said this laptop is going to last for at least 3-4 years before possible replacement.

HP has one of the highest return rates for defective laptops in the business.

ASUS has one of the lowest.

Daggah said:

HP has one of the highest return rates for defective laptops in the business.

ASUS has one of the lowest.

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HP as sold the most laptops.

Asus as sold the least amount of laptops.

your point?

LOCO LAPTOP said:

HP as sold the most laptops.

Asus as sold the least amount of laptops.

your point?

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I was talking in terms of percentage, not in terms of sheer number of units.

Daggah said:

I was talking in terms of percentage, not in terms of sheer number of units.

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So what is the percentage / figure then? Any links to back that assertion up?

Daggah said:

http://smidgenpc.com/2010/05/07/laptop-reliability-ratings-which-laptop-is-really-most-reliable/

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The thing I don't like about that chart is the lack of details. Just enough to lambaste certain companies while showing others in a rosy light.

What is the time frame that data is sampled from. What did the malfunctions consist of, per brand. What was the source of said malfunctions, is the design of current generation hardware any different?


As an example, take the envy line from hp

based off user results from the envy 15, one would expect the envy 14 to have heating issues. By and large, it doesn't. They put adequate cooling inside the casing, as well as made the chasis slightly thicker to help dissipate heat.

The hit piece or post would only mention past heating issues, and the credulous reader might take that in and ignore anything else, however good it may be, from a company.


perceptual dogma


If people were more objective, they would at least adopt a statute of limitations for BOTH the blind loyalty they show a brand off past experiences, and the black listing of a brand based off past problems that may or may not have anything to do with the current lines.

-1 for HP

I own a dv9260nr that runs hot as the sun, and broke down last week after three years of usage due to the solder on the GPU melting. Not only that, the left hinge is broken (this is a well known HP issue subjected to class action lawsuit). The parts overall, are very poorly constructed.

The worst laptop I've owned by far. Stay the hell away from HP notebooks.

so you never did the bios update I take it?

and yes dv2000 dv6000 and dv9000 all had that issue, part of it was nvidia fault (gpu).

I've owned both, I had an HP that I had for 3 years no problems then sold it to a friend who used it for another 4 and never had a single problem. Now it wasn't really traveled with and ran on AC with the battery pulled most of the time. Now I have a Asus ul80vt which has the most awesome battery life I've seen. In battery saving mode I can upwards of
12hrs. I've only had it for 6 months but the build quality is great and doesn't have any of the problem that people complained out. The free 2 years standard and 1 year accidental was a nice addition too.

EndersShadow said:

LOL. I know I know..... I am going to use it at times and I am going to get her into Photoshop and some other graphic apps. She wants to learn them to touch up photo's and I need it to potentially do some video editing when not at our apartment. Those will use the GPU plus I would rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it. Like I said this laptop is going to last for at least 3-4 years before possible replacement.

Click to expand...

Actually video editing and photo editing are 2D applications and fast 3D accelerators don't make much of a difference. You're better getting as many cores and as fast a CPU as you can, with as much memory as you can, with an OS/APP SSD and 7200 RPM HD than a fast "gaming" GPU.

CrazyCuz2k said:

Actually video editing and photo editing are 2D applications and fast 3D accelerators don't make much of a difference. You're better getting as many cores and as fast a CPU as you can, with as much memory as you can, with an OS/APP SSD and 7200 RPM HD than a fast "gaming" GPU.

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True, however if I really wanted to I could just let the computer run soley off the 4250 (which is does anyway once you go to battery power), but its nice to have the 5xxx series just in case. Like I said later on I will be adding a SSD and with a quad core 2.0 Ghz processor and 4 gigs of ram I think I should be pretty well set. There are a couple quirks on the laptop I have discovered so far, but nothing game changing (just minor annoyances w/ the touchpad).

This laptop was actually going to be out of my price range if purchased direct from HP so I am glad I got it off newegg. The other alternatives were faster dual core systems but quad core Intel's were definately out of my reach.

Daggah said:

http://smidgenpc.com/2010/05/07/laptop-reliability-ratings-which-laptop-is-really-most-reliable/

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That's it? A blog?

You can somewhat customize an Asus laptop. I bought my G1S from GentechPC.com back in Dec 2007 but sadly I had to RMA it out of warranty due to the GPU failing (notorius in the 8600m line). I was left without a laptop and since I was deploying I decided to buy an Asus G73-A2 from Gentech. I deployed last week and my wife told me that my G1S was returned yesterday (barely a 3 week turnaround!)and that Asus replaced the motherboard to fix it, something I had read was impossible anymore because the factory stopped making them since the laptop was so old. I am not home and wont be for months so I can't check the G1S but it is service like that and GentechPC and their reps that have kept me coming back to Asus (have an EEE PC as well, using it to type this actually). Hope that helps somewht in your decision.