Choice of Panasonic Plasma (NeoPDP) or Sony LCD TV.

Hello,

I'm looking to buy one of the folowing two TVs.

Sony KDL-40HX700

Specifications available:
http://www.sony.com.au/product/kdl-40hx700
(click the Specifications tab)
http://www.sony.se/product/t32-hx-series/kdl-40hx700#pageType=TechnicalSpecs


Panasonic TX-P42V20

Specification available:
http://www.panasonic.co.uk/html/en_...ecification/4916093/index.html?trackInfo=true

I will not be using any external input device other than a PC. I guess I'll be using a HDMI cable seeing how these TVs don't have DVI ports. From my PC I'll be playing games, using text editors and other programs as well as watching DVDs, HD-grade MKVs and all sorts of stuff one normally does with a PC.

I've read up some on Hz ratings and that 200Hz or 600Hz are all stuff that is computed inside the TVs and that it is not possible for TVs to accept refresh rate signals higher than 60Hz (in general).

As I understand it plasma TVs have darker black levels. I've also heard that their reaction times are at around 0.001ms (NeoPDP) while LEDs are around 1ms. I'm not sure that the difference is something that my eyes would register. Or is there perhaps a signifigance here that I am missing?

I do enjoy watching movies a lot and I also use my PC to type documents every day. So the Windows 7 desktop needs to be portrayed with a stable picture for easy viewing while I type. And as far as movies go I am very anal about picture quality.

Would someone care to address some pros and cons to the two TVs?
Does someone feel that one TV is better than the other in regards to my source (a PC) and what I use it for (Windows and watching movies)?

Also, does anyone own one of these TVs and have them hooked up to a PC?

Purchase cost or power consumption is not an issue here. These two TVs are candidates because of their physical dimensions.

For any TV watching duties, I would choose a plasma over an LCD any day. It's the difference between watching a device that looks like a TV vs something that looks like you are watching a big PC monitor. It's just much more fluid and real.

That being said, with a PC as the main output source, I don't know if plasma would be the best option.

Hmm once you go Plasma you will never look back.
I own a Pio krp500M wouldn't trade it for anything out at this time.

Mine is used with a mediacenter and 1080p mkv's and some lite youtube watching and music-plaback

As for using a plasma for pc related work is not recommended because of potential burn-in/retention. I personally keep it to a minimum.
So my recommendation: Buy the most expensive pana plasma you can afford or even better find a used krp-500M/600M which is, starngely, still the best around.

Basically, a plasma will have better picture quality and will handle motion a lot better but is not really suitable for work. Number one reason being the burn-in issue. When people say it has been solved on new plasmas, what they really mean is that it has been solved for TV usage. Watching movies with black bars and using it as a PC monitor from time to time is indeed not a problem for new plasmas but for continuous PC usage, it is asking for trouble IMO. Also, if you are sensitive to flicker it may also be an issue with plasmas when you sit close to them displaying a predominantly white screen.

As much as I love my plasma, I wouldn't use it as a computer monitor.

600Hz subfield drive has little to do with changing the refresh. It does affect how many bits of colour can be displayed. Look for the "600Hz" plasma thread just discussed this week - I provided links to explanations on subfield drive.

I chose plasma, and just a few months ago, and LOVE it. I also used my colorimeter together with HCFR and confirmed that the primaries, gamma etc... are tracking properly. The picture is very natural, smooth and easy to watch. A lot of LCDs are oversaturated on all manufacturer presets and can look a little "fake". They're coming a long way but I still love plasma.

That being said, as others have pointed out, PC desktops and text editing (! seriously?) is not the forte of a plasma.

seven0fnine said:

I will not be using any external input device other than a PC.[/I]

Click to expand...

Having just bought a nice new 1080P plasma, and from endlessly reading up on the topic and being a plasma fan in general, i can comfortably say that you should pick up an LCD and not look back due to this single statement above. LCD's have sharper text and just mate with PC's so well, one was practically made for the other.

Don't get me wrong, you can make plasmas work with PC fine for the most part. But you'll be constantly babysitting it to prevent more stubborn image-retention (IR) and your text won't be as sharp. <-- some people either don't mind this or know some work-arounds. Some people do use plasmas as their main "monitors" but they are definitely a tiny minority.

"Reaction times" are only a small part of the picture, it's total input lag that counts, and only panasonic plasmas have low input lag whereas samsung and LG plasmas have very high input lag. LCD's TV's are a mixed bag as far as input lag is concerned.



Edit:

Here's a forum where this topic is discussed often: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=9

Here's a thread where they discuss LCD TV input lag: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1131464

Here's a thread where they discuss Plasma input lag: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1166196&highlight=input+lag

SJetski71 said:

Don't get me wrong, you can make plasmas work with PC fine for the most part. But you'll be constantly babysitting it to prevent more stubborn image-retention (IR) and your text won't be as sharp. <-- some people either don't mind this or know some work-arounds. Some people do use plasmas as their main "monitors" but they are definitely a tiny minority.

Click to expand...

I don't disagree with you at all in terms of IR, but sharpness and other aspects are subject to debate. I have a Panasonic G25 and text/PC desktops look OK through analog VGA and great through DVI->HDMI although I've only played a couple of times. You need to be sure that you're disabling the overscan scaler and running at native resolution. Most of these sets come defaulting to overscan to cut ragged edges off of input material. This, of course, negatively affects 1:1 pixel sharpness.

Surly73 said:

I don't disagree with you at all in terms of IR, but sharpness and other aspects are subject to debate. I have a Panasonic G25 and text/PC desktops look OK through analog VGA and great through DVI->HDMI although I've only played a couple of times. You need to be sure that you're disabling the overscan scaler and running at native resolution. Most of these sets come defaulting to overscan to cut ragged edges off of input material. This, of course, negatively affects 1:1 pixel sharpness.

Click to expand...

Yep, been battling overscan on TV's for about 10 years now, lot easier to correct nowadays then even just 3-4 years ago.

TV, Movies, Games - Plasma wins...

But if you want to be productive / look at text then an LCD is a better route to go.

I got my Plasma hooked up to a PC, but I only use it for windows media center and movies, plan to hook up a PS3 / Xbox360 eventually though and get some console gaming done.

Ive had my Pioneer 5010 for a long time after coming from a CRT type TV and it definely has a lot better picture than the LCD type. There is no problem with image retention etc.

I sometimes use it with one of my computers to stream Netflix and the picture looks great.

Thank you all for your opinions and comments.
Today, I ordered the Panasonic TX-P42V20.
Hopefully I will not be disappointed.

Biosphere said:

Hmm once you go Plasma you will never look back.

Click to expand...

^This.

seven0fnine said:

Thank you all for your opinions and comments.
Today, I ordered the Panasonic TX-P42V20.
Hopefully I will not be disappointed.

Click to expand...

You may be disappointed that you didn't get a 46 or 50, but other than that you should be happy.

For best life and performance from a plasma like that you don't want to drive it harder than you need to. The realistic picture is actually from the THX mode and similar settings. They are calibrated and accurate (at least very close, as confirmed with my G25 in THX mode using HCFR and a DTP-94 colorimeter). The catch is that a lot of people consider "realism" to be too flat, muted and boring - everything has to be neon and full of "pop". You can make a plasma look like that, but that's not where it really shines. It's the same with audio - some people think you have to have a smiley face on the EQ to sound "good" while others can appreciate reference quality gear and realistic sound.

There are some good looking LCDs out there but I really love my G25 - especially at its amazing price point. Your V will perform even better.

Interesting selection OP.

As a dedicated PC monitor with a windows desktop environment a 42" series V-series is more than fine imho, maybe even a perfect compromise since he now has a combo of both size (large for a PC monitor) and high quality (V-series).

If the OP was going to use it more as a regular TV, at a comfortable seating distance, then i would totally agree that a 46" is the minimum for smaller or average sized living rooms, and a 50" to 60" would be even better.

Surly73 said:

You may be disappointed that you didn't get a 46 or 50, but other than that you should be happy.

For best life and performance from a plasma like that you don't want to drive it harder than you need to. The realistic picture is actually from the THX mode and similar settings. They are calibrated and accurate (at least very close, as confirmed with my G25 in THX mode using HCFR and a DTP-94 colorimeter). The catch is that a lot of people consider "realism" to be too flat, muted and boring - everything has to be neon and full of "pop". You can make a plasma look like that, but that's not where it really shines. It's the same with audio - some people think you have to have a smiley face on the EQ to sound "good" while others can appreciate reference quality gear and realistic sound.

There are some good looking LCDs out there but I really love my G25 - especially at its amazing price point. Your V will perform even better.

Click to expand...

I agree with you on this. Realistic colours are, by many, thought to be too damp. I myself am really looking forward to using the THX mode and see how it performs. I am especially looking forward to watching older movies like Alien, The Thing and Apocalypse Now.

I did read up a little bit on the THX certification, but I'm not sure that I fully understood all of the criteria. But I do believe that Panasonic has some of the few models of THX certified plasmas. Correct?

Plasma is definitely the way to go as far as TV's are concerned. I went shopping for one of those amazing Samsung LEDs a year ago only to find washed out colors. I ended up with a 50" Panasonic pz850ou at around the $1800 point compared to the Leds I was looking at which were 2100+, Sharp had the nicest looking led btw. Unless I plan on using it as a monitor, I won't purchase an lcd display. LCD fanboys can keep their trumotion grossness and 240hz, plasma is where its at.

ps. forgot to mention the lack of stuck or dead pixels!

seven0fnine said:

I agree with you on this. Realistic colours are, by many, thought to be too damp. I myself am really looking forward to using the THX mode and see how it performs. I am especially looking forward to watching older movies like Alien, The Thing and Apocalypse Now.

I did read up a little bit on the THX certification, but I'm not sure that I fully understood all of the criteria. But I do believe that Panasonic has some of the few models of THX certified plasmas. Correct?

Click to expand...

The certification isn't nearly as important as the principles behind it. You'll find that the THX mode is "very good" in comparison to a full ISF calibration. (Just like an NEC 2490 with ColorComp turned on is very close to perfect sRGB profile/calibration without using SpectraView II). The G series doesn't have a full CMS and the service menus only offer certain adjustments (grey scale/gamma can only be adjusted at 2 points instead of, say, 11 for instance) but my measurements with HCFR and a DTP-94 showed that out of the box the THX mode had perfect gamma tracking and the colour temperature was very close (Warm1 was just a little cool and Warm2 was just a little warm compared to D65). Out of the box I had max dE<10 (considered "fine") and with a little bit of service menu tweaking I had dE<3 piece of cake.

In other words, if you don't want to jack around with all this stuff as a hobby, but you like accurate displays, you can pretty much take a Panasonic G or V series, set it for THX, and possibly use a free AVCHD DVD ISO like AVS HD709 to set your brightness (black point) and contrast (white point) settings and you're good to go.

Actually I recommend AVS HD709 to anyone even half interested. Burn it and through it in your BD player (assuming it supports AVCHD) and you'll have access to lots of test patterns and no-tool setup guides.

IMO, carrying the letters "THX" is more marketing than anything else. They could certainly offer any "realistic" mode and call it whatever they want and it would still be accurate.

Enjoy!

Kidius said:

ps. forgot to mention the lack of stuck or dead pixels!

Click to expand...

That can happen to plasma too. The #1 cause, I believe, is transporting it flat instead of standing up like the box says. Microfractures occur in the glass matrix and the gas bleeds out or in to places it shouldn't be causing dead and stuck pixels.

I think the powerpoint link I posted earlier actually has a slide on how this occurs.

So, note to self, don't drive to Best Buy and throw your new plasma flat into the back of your pick up.

Surly73 said:

That can happen to plasma too. The #1 cause, I believe, is transporting it flat instead of standing up like the box says. Microfractures occur in the glass matrix and the gas bleeds out or in to places it shouldn't be causing dead and stuck pixels.

I think the powerpoint link I posted earlier actually has a slide on how this occurs.

So, note to self, don't drive to Best Buy and throw your new plasma flat into the back of your pick up.

Click to expand...

The electronics store where i recently picked up my plasma had a guy that helps bring the TV's out to the car. For a second he was going to lay it on it's side when i reminded him that it should stay straight up. He said "oh yea, i've been told that, but we've never had a problem (?) and some people would never be able to bring home their new plasma otherwise".

I'm glad i didn't listen to him.

Recently people at AVS have been complaining that their LG PK550 plasmas have been coming with stuck or dead pixels, maybe i'll post the info you posted here, this way other people can avoide the same mistake. Who knows, maybe the PK550 is a tad more sensitive than the other brands/models?

Thanks for the reminder, and heads up, because i was never sure what was damaged when a plasma is lain on it's side.

I have a smaller car so I could only lay my Plasma flat... no dead pixels or issues, mounted up on the wall for a year now.

It was a short drive (10-15min) and I took care to avoid pot-holes and other crap in the road.

I <3 my Panasonic plasma for TV/DVD/BluRay/360, but I don't bother using it with my PC. I've got an HDMI cable run to it from my computer, but anything I do on the computer is perfectly fine on my 1080p lcd monitor. At work we use LCD TVs with computers because we can't count on our clients following directions with a plasma.

SJetski71 said:

Recently people at AVS have been complaining that their LG PK550 plasmas have been coming with stuck or dead pixels, maybe i'll post the info you posted here, this way other people can avoide the same mistake. Who knows, maybe the PK550 is a tad more sensitive than the other brands/models?

Thanks for the reminder, and heads up, because i was never sure what was damaged when a plasma is lain on it's side.

Click to expand...

All of the folks at AVS should already know this, really. I'm pretty sure I read it there the first time, with the nitty-gritty information provided by that Powerpoint I linked to.

I guess knowledge transfer is cyclical at AVS. I haven't had time to participate there in months.

Surly73 said:

All of the folks at AVS should already know this, really. I'm pretty sure I read it there the first time, with the nitty-gritty information provided by that Powerpoint I linked to.

I guess knowledge transfer is cyclical at AVS. I haven't had time to participate there in months.

Click to expand...

I mention it because there are several recent PK550 owners that were dumbfounded that they have dead or flashing "pixels", but not one person has asked them how they transported their plasmas.

The flashing pixels sometimes come back to life though.