Japan Is Still Low-Tech&#63

H

HardOCP News

[H] News
Joined
Dec 31, 1969
Messages
0
The country know for being a leader in the tech world has a low-tech underbelly? Really? That just doesn’t seem right, I thought everyone from Japan was tech savvy. :confused:

Police stations without computers, 30-year-old "on hold" tapes grinding out tinny renditions of Greensleeves, ATMs that close when the bank does, suspect car engineering, and kerosene heaters but no central heating.
Click to expand...
 
But seriously most countries in the world have this sort of thing. I mean some people on here still use XP...Some foolish people in Japan buy crApples...Theres just no helping people...

But anyway. There is still only 251 Million americans with internet accounts. Thats only 76% and most of those are using twitter. Which is the same as Japan. I blame all these old people, lets just kill them all and then the probably would be dealt with. Also put the internet in prisons.
 
Someone really gets paid to write an article like this? You can look at any technologically advancing country and find people, corporations, and government programs that are stuck in old and inefficient infrastructure, that doesn't embrace technology.
 
BladeVenom said:
Another thing, Japan is still mostly a cash society.
Click to expand...

Yess. But theres also cards like the suika thats getting more common (the touchless credit card that mastercard is using now or something) But theres lots less crime and such things, so probably there isn:t as much drive for it. But it helps tourists when they come to Japan, Visas and other cards sometimes only work in home country.
 
When I think of Japan, I always think of the exile planet Terminus in Asimov's Foundation series. As a small country with extremely limited resources, they're always focused on miniaturization. It can either be a good thing or bad thing. Good because smaller is sometimes better, but bad because it slows progress - too much time is spent on researches that sometimes get nowhere.
 
The further you get away from major population centers the further you go back in time. I'm not just talking outside of Tokyo, just leave the beaten path and go to not so heavily trafficked parts of town it can feel like you went 10-20 years back in time. I loved the country side, still looks like the late 70s/ early 80s or earlier. Leave the ultra new train station in Kyoto, north of it along the main streets everything is pretty modern, but south of it and your in for a shock. Mibu isn't exactly a top tourist spot for westerners (unless your a history buff), but it is a place where a lot of older Japanese visit, still feels like its about 20 years behind, same for more Japanese centric places (history or folk importance), they really don't like to mix tech into it, that's one of the reasons the Kyoto train station was so hated when it went up.

Simply put, Japan is split between a youth culture with the latest and greatest centered around metro areas where things quickly go out of fashion and upgrade is the in and the older more rural culture with values on tradition and very resistant to change (it does happen, but very slowly). Them old folks like the way their rotary telephone works, dammed if they are gonna change it.
 
Why does it say suspect car engineering?

I guess the Prius computers went screwy, but that was one model. The other recalls had to do with floormats on the gas pedal, when they were able to be locked down, so all in all I would say Japan has one of the best car quality ratings, if not the best.

I mean the Toyota Camry 3.5L V6 with 268-306HP(DI) has been selected for the new Lotus Eagle, out of all choices! Only the Chevy Small Block is comparable when it comes to cheap and efficient power
 
Japan was always been a conservative society.Goes back to the 400 years of isolation they had until Perry arrived with his famous ship in 1858. It's not easy for western companies to do business in Japan. It may be a bit easier now, but at least 15-20 years ago the loyalty the companies have to each other prevent that. Just because someone else can sell you the same thing cheaper doesnät mean you buy from him. You buy from the people you have always bought from. Not to speak of their distaste for any sort of independant thinking. In some ways they still live with samurai-style social rules. (Yet I still love Japan)
 
lived there for 2 years. Astounded at the very same points raised by article. Particularly jarring for me was the ATM's had "bank hours" and if you did not withdraw whatever you needed before say 3:30-4pm Fri you were out of luck (and out of cash) until Monday. this probably caused the most disbelief, confusion, rage and finally acceptance for me compared to all the other culture shocks I had there (and there were many) as it defied the entire point for the invention of ATM's.

the "hi-tech" illusion is IMO really because of their focus on gee-whiz consumer goods but it is completely a superficial effect. dig deeper and as the article states, their infrastructure exists completely in analog
 
DeathPrincess said:
Yess. But theres also cards like the suika thats getting more common (the touchless credit card that mastercard is using now or something) But theres lots less crime and such things, so probably there isn:t as much drive for it. But it helps tourists when they come to Japan, Visas and other cards sometimes only work in home country.
Click to expand...

There's a lot of non-cash options. Suica for trains, buses, vending machines, and some taxies. You have your credit cards, touchless credit cards, Edy, and a slew of other crap.

Just about every store that I go to, that has high cost items, I get asked if I want to make payments in installments. Like when I bought my old Core 2 Duo E6600 from PC Depot. That was $326 at the time. They even asked that when I picked up a Docomo phone.

dagas said:
Just because someone else can sell you the same thing cheaper doesnät mean you buy from him. You buy from the people you have always bought from.
Click to expand...

You buy from who you trust. In Japan, those they trust just happen to be other Japanese companies. Course many things take off from there. The Seiyu is pretty much Walmart. Mr. Donuts is yummy. McDonalds. KFC. Lawsons. 7-Eleven. Whatever.

I think the main problem is that the non-Japanese trying to create a business there, don't understand Japanese society enough to be successful. Like the Xbox 360. There really aren't many games catered to them. The gamers don't care about GoW, Halo, CoD:MW, or what have you. They want visual novels, dating sim style RPGs, dating sims, etc.

SoftScience said:
lived there for 2 years. Astounded at the very same points raised by article. Particularly jarring for me was the ATM's had "bank hours" and if you did not withdraw whatever you needed before say 3:30-4pm Fri you were out of luck (and out of cash) until Monday. this probably caused the most disbelief, confusion, rage and finally acceptance for me compared to all the other culture shocks I had there (and there were many) as it defied the entire point for the invention of ATM's.

the "hi-tech" illusion is IMO really because of their focus on gee-whiz consumer goods but it is completely a superficial effect. dig deeper and as the article states, their infrastructure exists completely in analog
Click to expand...

Those ATMs are only the ones that are attached to the bank. They just lock the doors on them, probably to keep out the homeless. ATMs in 7-Eleven, Lawsons, SunKus, etc work fine.

Course even then, quite a number of banks allow you to swipe your card, then the doors open. Then you can use the ATM.

-------------

Anyways, this article is kind of dumb. A lot of things are done the old fashion way, cause there's no point in changing it. If they decided to leap into higher tech offerings, so many Japanese would be without a job. It's already an issue now, with quite a large number of them having, from what it seem, made up jobs. Like the 5-10 ppl directing traffic in a construction zone, even though everyone's just paying attention to the traffic light that's actually doing it. How about the person who hands you the parking ticket or takes the parking ticket from the parking ticket machine (like in a parking garage). You can clearly reach the machine on your own. In Japan, if you don't have a job, it's cause you chose not to have one.

I'm personally fine where they are. The US tech is moving ahead. Americans getting fatter. Korean tech is moving ahead. Koreans are actually getting fatter (currently living here). Japanese tech is sitting still. Japanese are still skinny.
 
SoftScience said:
lived there for 2 years. Astounded at the very same points raised by article. Particularly jarring for me was the ATM's had "bank hours" and if you did not withdraw whatever you needed before say 3:30-4pm Fri you were out of luck (and out of cash) until Monday. this probably caused the most disbelief, confusion, rage and finally acceptance for me compared to all the other culture shocks I had there (and there were many) as it defied the entire point for the invention of ATM's.

the "hi-tech" illusion is IMO really because of their focus on gee-whiz consumer goods but it is completely a superficial effect. dig deeper and as the article states, their infrastructure exists completely in analog
Click to expand...
+1, i just moved here a month ago... and find that japan isn't all that
 
SoftScience said:
lived there for 2 years. Astounded at the very same points raised by article. Particularly jarring for me was the ATM's had "bank hours" and if you did not withdraw whatever you needed before say 3:30-4pm Fri you were out of luck (and out of cash) until Monday. this probably caused the most disbelief, confusion, rage and finally acceptance for me compared to all the other culture shocks I had there (and there were many) as it defied the entire point for the invention of ATM's.

the "hi-tech" illusion is IMO really because of their focus on gee-whiz consumer goods but it is completely a superficial effect. dig deeper and as the article states, their infrastructure exists completely in analog
Click to expand...
What part are you living in? Most ATMs are fine until midnight and fine on the weekend. They are down for major holidays, which is a pain in the ass. This policy varies by company, so pick the one that is loosest. In Tokyo, Mitsubishi UFJ is the loosest and you can get cash out almost 24/7.

But, for the most part the article is dead on and Japan is really suffering from it. Innovation lags and competitive spirit is weighed down by process bullshit.
 
Yes this is true in many ways. My friends teaching English in Japan say there is a real lack of heating.
 
What? You mean they don't raze all buildings older than 10 years and cull the population regularly to ensure everything stays hyper modern? I thought they did that everywhere.

On a more serious note, I'm pretty sure that you'll find the same thing everywhere. Except maybe in Singapore or so :)
 
A good example of how Japan is both high-tech and simultaneously not up to date is the internet here. I applied for a 100mbit internet connection that was being advertised at a local electronic store. They had a whole part of the store dedicated to signing people up for internet, a permanent part of the store. So I a give the people behind the counter my address and they look up the building I live in. They explain there is already a 1Gbps fiber line connected to my building and that the apartment lets people to sign up connect to it via 100mbit VDSL. Good news I don't have to wait for them to install any hardware!

This is where it gets counter intuitive. They pull out a 3 page form for me to fill out. Including a section that I need to get my building owner to sign, in-case they need to do any "construction" during the install process. "But they building is already wired!, all I need is a VDSL modem and a password!, I say." Oh yes that's true but the head office won't process the form if part of it isn't filled out. "Head office? you mean you are going to physically mail this form to another city to have someone process it? How long will this take?" About six weeks is the answer.

So six weeks later I get a VDSL modem in the mail and a post card with a login and password on it.

But I get this out of it http://www.speedtest.net/result/874781067.png

Pretty much everything in this country follows the above routine.



Another quick example.

There are pretty much only two types of health insurance here. Both government issued and both pretty good. One is for people who work part time and pay for it themselves. The other is for people who work full time and your boss pays half and you pay half (but it comes out of your paycheck)

The full-time version is better in every way, better coverage, lower co-pay (10%) and cheaper.

Anyway I recently got a new job and my boss now pays. He said he would take care of signing me up and I didn't have to worry.

So I get my new health insurance card in the mail but for whatever reason keep getting bills for my old one. I ask around and find out its because I didn't go to city hall and fill out a cancellation form! None of this stuff is in computers so I have to go fill out paperwork to remind some city worker to go digging through some files and remove me from the crappier health insurance. I can not believe this stuff isn't done digitally somehow.
 
Without actually reading the article, I would venture to say this is true for almost any nation. Not that US's poverty underbelly is any big secret to most people, but it's one of the bigger examples of a 1st world nation so otherwise integrated with technology and luxuries in general, but still have plenty of low-tech underbelly to condend with.

Granted, not quite to the degree of Kerosene heaters, ATM's that are not 24/7 and suspect car engineering......oh wait.....
 
Spare-Flair said:
Yes this is true in many ways. My friends teaching English in Japan say there is a real lack of heating.
Click to expand...

There's reasons for that. For apartments, they simply don't have enough room to place a lot of gas containers to provide heating, outside of heating water or the stove. They can't run gas lines, cause they'd just rupture from the like 5000-10000 earthquakes they get each year. No one wants to spend the extra cash to have central air or floor heating in their house, as they build houses to be disposable. Most homes never last more than 10 years. There are times where you will just buy a plot of land and they give you the house for free. Cause they don't want to spend money to demolish it.


hexamon said:
This is where it gets counter intuitive. They pull out a 3 page form for me to fill out. Including a section that I need to get my building owner to sign, in-case they need to do any "construction" during the install process. "But they building is already wired!, all I need is a VDSL modem and a password!, I say." Oh yes that's true but the head office won't process the form if part of it isn't filled out. "Head office? you mean you are going to physically mail this form to another city to have someone process it? How long will this take?" About six weeks is the answer.
Click to expand...

You haven't lived in too many locations in the world, eh. Germany takes about 1-2 months to have your connection hooked up. They'll give you a modem and send you on your way. In 1-2 months time, they'll actually come out and swap a cable or two to activate your telephone line. This was in the Rhineland-Palatinate area.

England (Burwell, Cambridgeshire), I wanted 3 weeks. Korea (Sinjang, Pyeongtaek), I waited 4 weeks. Japan (Tachikawa, Tokyo), I didn't wait at all. Gave me my modem and sent me on my way.

Personally, I'd still rather wait on the connection you have, than the Korean one I have.

881442800.png


That's my so called 160 mbps service.
 
I do quite remember back in 2005 when I spent two months in Tokyo, no food-related store accepted credit or debit cards, and same goes for any local chain stores, quite strange if you ask me.
 
I taught English in Japan in the mid-90s. Each day, we would fill out a hand-written lesson plan in tiny, tiny letters on a single page, in triplicate. At the end of each work day, we would tear out the carbon copies - one to be filed in the manager's office, and one to faxed to the corporate office. And so it went, day in, day out.

We were salaried workers, but used manual punch cards to log in and out of work. There were no computers in the building.

We were paid in cash at the end of each month. When we were lucky, we were paid early enough in the day that we could use our lunch hour to deposit our wages into our bank or post office accounts. The bank and post office employees were polite, efficient, and accurate. But the process took anywhere from 10-40 minutes.

Japan only tracks employment numbers for heads of household, but even then, they would instantly have >20% unemployment if they automated services that the US automated decades ago.
 
Japan - Heck I had a hard enough time trying to pay for stuff in Michigan. Walk into a restaurant and they don't know what debit or interact is. They just give me a blank stare and complain that its not Visa or Mastercard. That really blew my mind as I encountered it at multiple restaurants.

There is only one chain of restaurants that don't accept debit here in Canada and that's because they strive to serve every customer in under 20 seconds from when the order was placed - Tim Hortons.
 
xorbe said:
Honda has fallen out of step lately too in the engine dept and visual design. Hyundai is strangely taking the efficiency/power-per-liter lead.
Click to expand...

subaru is still awesome :D
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top