What to do: OC e5200--Upgrade to Q9550--core i7?

Ok i'm going to do this one paragraph at a time haha.

Raise FSB= Raise performance. You can raise FSB by raising core-speed or lowering multiplier. Increasing core speed gets more performance than increasing FSB alone. 11*300=3.3GHz is faster than mine right now (12.5*266=3.3GHz) but faster than those two options is 3.75GHz ( 300*12.5).

When you change the FSB it impacts both DRAM and CPU core speed (i noticed they are always the same). The part i dont get, is: isn't my RAM 1066 qualified? I bought it specifically 1066 cause thats better than 800. So why am i running it at 800?

I feel comfortable right now with how my system is and wont change anything except i plan to up my voltage to 1.25 just cause 1.21 seems low. I will experiment more once i have re-seated my HSF and am confident i know what i'm doing.
Once i have re-seated it i will (with your help :) ) test my CPU up to 3.5GHz and if its stable, leave it there. And once i get a new HSF (high performance one) i will consider going to 3.75 or 4.0. I know as of right now my computer has not been 24 hour stress tested even at 3.3GHz and that needs to be done before anything. Gotta make sure its ok even at 3.3 right now before i try to go for more.
 
I didn't know that you had bought 1066 ddr2. If it can run 1066 you can change the multiplier to run it at that speed. Or if you planning to try to run faster than 3.3ghz just leave it and make sure cpu-z memory speed stays below 533mhz.
 
I have G Skill DDR2 1066 memory , 4 gigs on 2 sticks. What do i have to do to get it running at its correct frequency?
 
NathanP2007 said:
I have G Skill DDR2 1066 memory , 4 gigs on 2 sticks. What do i have to do to get it running at its correct frequency?
Click to expand...

CPU clock = FSB * CPU multiplier
DRAM clock = FSB * DRAM multiplier

BTW, the difference between high speed ram (DDR3-1333) and low speed (DDR2-667) is often less than 5% in real world applications. So save your money and get mainstream ram e.g. DDR2-800. Same thing goes for DDR3. The main reason to get higher grade ram is when you overclock and you need to push your FSB higher than you can compensate by lowering your DRAM multiplier.
 
sfsilicon said:
CPU clock = FSB * CPU multiplier
DRAM clock = FSB * DRAM multiplier

BTW, the difference between high speed ram (DDR3-1333) and low speed (DDR2-667) is often less than 5% in real world applications. So save your money and get mainstream ram e.g. DDR2-800. Same thing goes for DDR3. The main reason to get higher grade ram is when you overclock and you need to push your FSB higher than you can compensate by lowering your DRAM multiplier.
Click to expand...

That is good to know and makes sense. Though i get that you told me the equation to change my DRAM to 1066, i still am not sure honestly in real world application how to change it.

So im ready to take off my HSF and apply AS5. I have the artic silver website directions up on where and how to apply it. But first i just want to double check. When i take off my HSF i will use a credit card to scrap (gently) away the thermal pad that was being used, then use rubbing alchohal (90% or higher) and a q-tip to get the rest off.. Once i see none on the top of the cpu and bottom of the HSF , i apply the artic silver , i lower it straight and flat onto the cpu, someone else at that time while im holding it flat, tightens 2 screws opposite and diagnal of each other, then we turn the other 2 screws, then AS website says move the HSF while mounted about a degree left then right to move it a lil bit to get the bubbles out. Then your done. Right?
Whats your opinion on the fact that iv been told "once you use the stock thermal grease, it will fill in the microscopic pits in the heatsink base". Will how i clean it be suffecient enough for that to not matter?
 
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NathanP2007 said:
That is good to know and makes sense. Though i get that you told me the equation to change my DRAM to 1066, i still am not sure honestly in real world application how to change it.
Click to expand...
I'm trying to make self sufficient. You have all the information to answer your question. Go over what we discussed in the past and make a suggestion and I'll tell you if your right or wrong.

NathanP2007 said:
So im ready to take off my HSF and apply AS5. I have the artic silver website directions up on where and how to apply it. But first i just want to double check. When i take off my HSF i will use a credit card to scrap (gently) away the thermal pad that was being used, then use rubbing alchohal (90% or higher) and a q-tip to get the rest off.. Once i see none on the top of the cpu and bottom of the HSF , i apply the artic silver , i lower it straight and flat onto the cpu, someone else at that time while im holding it flat, tightens 2 screws opposite and diagnal of each other, then we turn the other 2 screws, then AS website says move the HSF while mounted about a degree left then right to move it a lil bit to get the bubbles out. Then your done. Right?
Whats your opinion on the fact that iv been told "once you use the stock thermal grease, it will fill in the microscopic pits in the heatsink base". Will how i clean it be suffecient enough for that to not matter?
Click to expand...

Follow the guide. It makes sense. If you boil it down to what is import it really comes down to: make sure the heatsink and cpu is clean, apply a thin layer of AS, keep the heatsink flat.

When you mount the heatsink you apply a lot of pressure so it is easy to get it a bit off. Best way to check this is to look at the pattern on the heatsink when you pull it off. Is it even flat? Do you see areas that are not thicker (did not touch)? BTW, the stock Intel cooler uses push pins. You need to push them down for them to click in place. You can imagine if you don't hold down the heatsink and push on only one pin you can have the heatsink at an angle very quickly. Bolt retention kits are better, but you pay extra for those. If you do the mounting carefully you should get it flat.
 
Well, way to make me feel like a 5 year old being taught division haha.
I ordered the 212 plus HSF and the AS cleaning bottles, and a second fan for the 212 plus so it will have 2 fans. I'll update once i get them and attach them as to how it went and how much better my CPU is cooled.
 
I got all my parts today. My Coolermaster Hyper 212 Plus, my second fan for it, and the Arctic Silver cleaning solvents.
Before i attach them and all that, i had a question. Which way do you recommend i aim the fans?

HAF 932, Back fan is blowing air out of case (exhaust)
Option 1: Both HSFans are blowing air from inside the case, towards the back of case fan, so it exhausts out.

HAF 932, Back fan is blowing air from outside the case to the inside.
Option 2: Back of case fan is blowing cold air into the FSFans which are pulling it across the heatsink and pushing the air towards the front of the case.

Right now my HAF 932's back panel fan is being used how it came in the case, as a exhaust. But obviously if choice number 2 is the way to go, i can flip it so it pushes cold air from behind the case , into the case towards the HSFan's.
 
NathanP2007 said:
I got all my parts today. My Coolermaster Hyper 212 Plus, my second fan for it, and the Arctic Silver cleaning solvents.
Before i attach them and all that, i had a question. Which way do you recommend i aim the fans?

HAF 932, Back fan is blowing air out of case (exhaust)
Option 1: Both HSFans are blowing air from inside the case, towards the back of case fan, so it exhausts out.

HAF 932, Back fan is blowing air from outside the case to the inside.
Option 2: Back of case fan is blowing cold air into the FSFans which are pulling it across the heatsink and pushing the air towards the front of the case.

Right now my HAF 932's back panel fan is being used how it came in the case, as a exhaust. But obviously if choice number 2 is the way to go, i can flip it so it pushes cold air from behind the case , into the case towards the HSFan's.
Click to expand...

Follow the flow of your case fans. So Option 1.
 
UPDATE

I put in the new Hyper 212 plus HSF into my computer. Cleaned off all old thermal grease and applied new AS 5 and sat the HSF flat on it and got the screws tightened.

How long is the thermal paste curing period? How long till i run prime to see heat differences?

EDIT:

SO i just ran across this on arctic silver's website.
( http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appmeth/int/hl/intel_app_method_horizontal_line_v1.1.pdf )

Intel® Pentium® Processor Family

Application Method:
Pentium® Dual Core Processor

Horizontal Line
Pentium® Single Core Processor

Middle Dot
Pentium® D Dual Core Processor (Legacy)

Horizontal Line
Pentium® M - Mobile Processor (Legacy)

Surface Spread
Pentium® 4 Processor (Legacy)

Middle Dot
Pentium® 4 Mobile Processor (Legacy)

Surface Spread


I like was told to, did the typical from the top down line when applying AS5. Should i take off HSF and re apply correctly?
 
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NathanP2007 said:
UPDATE

I put in the new Hyper 212 plus HSF into my computer. Cleaned off all old thermal grease and applied new AS 5 and sat the HSF flat on it and got the screws tightened.

How long is the thermal paste curing period? How long till i run prime to see heat differences?

EDIT:

SO i just ran across this on arctic silver's website.
( http://www.arcticsilver.com/pdf/appmeth/int/hl/intel_app_method_horizontal_line_v1.1.pdf )

Intel® Pentium® Processor Family

Application Method:
Pentium® Dual Core Processor

Horizontal Line
Pentium® Single Core Processor

Middle Dot
Pentium® D Dual Core Processor (Legacy)

Horizontal Line
Pentium® M - Mobile Processor (Legacy)

Surface Spread
Pentium® 4 Processor (Legacy)

Middle Dot
Pentium® 4 Mobile Processor (Legacy)

Surface Spread


I like was told to, did the typical from the top down line when applying AS5. Should i take off HSF and re apply correctly?
Click to expand...

With your new heatsink you should see a difference right away. You also want to check temps right away after any changes to the heatsink to make sure you did things correctly and didn't forget anything. If temps are higher than before that is a good indication you did something wrong.

On the curing period that is the time till the TIM works optimally (flows into all the cracks and spreads evenly under heat and pressure. So you should see a smaller improvement till your TIM is cured.
 
Lol oh man this is crazy.
I just ran the Real Temp Sensor test (prime 95) again twice to compare to my old test results.

Here are the insane highlights

Old Stock Intel HSF:
100% load : 66C

New Hyper 212+:
100% load: 44C

22C degree difference! Thats crazy! thats 40F degrees!

And also a amazing thing. At 50% load, it is just 1C degree higher than its lowest temp (34C)
So:
57%=35.8C degrees
47%=34C degrees
5%= 34C degrees
0%= 34C degrees

INSANE!!!! I guess this not only proves how much better this High performance HSF is. But how i must have also messed up when attaching the stock Intel HSF.
 
The tower heatsink design is much more efficient than the downward blowing ones. That is why all high-end designs use it. Sort of like the jump from no thermal pipes to designs with them.
 
Update:

So i have been running my E5200 very well at 3.5 ghz and have had no problems at all. And the heatsink (hyper 212+) has been amazing. But like i mentioned when i first asked which route i should go, i was gonna start working soon and make good money, which i now have, and so the option of getting a Q9550 is open again.
I have been very interested in Linux and using a virtual machine to use Ubuntu, but my E5200 doesnt support virtualization. So i looked into a Q9550, and theres one on ebay , Buy it now, brand new sealed in box, Q9550 , E0 Stepping, $239.99 free shipping.
Now i realize that i could get a i7 for the same price, but i would need a new mobo and ddr3 and etc. So for now im not going the full new computer route. I am curious the opinion of you guys about getting the Q9550 for that price.
Thanks :)
 
@NathanP2007

I am only giving possibility. Pretty sure you can get detail response from others based on this thread's response.

If your concern is USD240 Q9550, Linux/Virtualization, the additional works, investment, future outlook,misc... my perception

A. If you prefer Intel

1. Buy the USD100 Core i3-530/motherboard in-store combo seen a few days ago
2. Buy 2x2GB DDR3-RAM. USD116
3. Overclock new setup to 3.6~4GHz (some seen pushing to 4.4ghz on Internet)
4. Sell your current setup to willing buyer to recoup cost.

If you are able to do item 4, I think overall the entire exercise will be much cheaper than USD240. You said you are happy with E5200 at 3.5GHz, then this new setup should be better than your existing. You pay a little, get the 32nm clarkdale advantage, and due to low investment, keep your option open with respect to incoming Intel Sandy bridge.

B. If option A are not available and you are open to AMD

1. Find similar inexpensive combo,
Refer back to section A for the same logic.

C. However, if no buyer for current E5200-setup and you must keep this setup
C-1 short-term usage, get VT-x capable new/used E5400/E6300/E7xxx reasonable price.
C-2 mid-term usage, get VT-x QuadCore Q6600/Q9xxx used reasonable price. (check compatibility 1st)
 
NathanP2007 said:
Update:

So i have been running my E5200 very well at 3.5 ghz and have had no problems at all. And the heatsink (hyper 212+) has been amazing. But like i mentioned when i first asked which route i should go, i was gonna start working soon and make good money, which i now have, and so the option of getting a Q9550 is open again.
I have been very interested in Linux and using a virtual machine to use Ubuntu, but my E5200 doesnt support virtualization. So i looked into a Q9550, and theres one on ebay , Buy it now, brand new sealed in box, Q9550 , E0 Stepping, $239.99 free shipping.
Now i realize that i could get a i7 for the same price, but i would need a new mobo and ddr3 and etc. So for now im not going the full new computer route. I am curious the opinion of you guys about getting the Q9550 for that price.
Thanks :)
Click to expand...

I'd get the Q9550 for that price personally. Swap out the CPU and keep your old parts. OC it to 3.8-4.0Ghz and get 85-90% of the performance without having to replace all your parts.
 
kirbyrj said:
I'd get the Q9550 for that price personally. Swap out the CPU and keep your old parts. OC it to 3.8-4.0Ghz and get 85-90% of the performance without having to replace all your parts.
Click to expand...

Yup, i bought it :) Once i see the performance of it and the temps when stress tested, il decide whether il overclock it or not. Thanks for the help guys.

I guess i might as well ask on this thread. How should i go about putting the new CPU in? Isnt there something you should do first to get rid of all my old bios settings? (and idk if it matters, but if you say clear the bios or cmos or something, know that my mobo has regular bios and backup bios, just telling you incase that matters)
 
After you change the CPU, go into the BIOS and set it to Optimized Defaults; just turn off the Boot Splash Screen.
 
Your temps will be higher because you have 4 cores instead of 2 and a lot more cache, but you should still be able to have a decent clock speed without too big of a voltage bump. 3.6Ghz+ with maybe 1.35V.
 
Well i just put in my new Q9550 , the only question i have is why when i run the temperature program "Real Temp GT", and run the sensor test, it only records 3 of the 4 cores? Is that typical?
 
NathanP2007 said:
Well i just put in my new Q9550 , the only question i have is why when i run the temperature program "Real Temp GT", and run the sensor test, it only records 3 of the 4 cores? Is that typical?
Click to expand...

I never used it. Always used Coretemp. Doesn't sound normal though.
 
kirbyrj said:
I never used it. Always used Coretemp. Doesn't sound normal though.
Click to expand...

Yeah its weird, core temp shows all 4 and task manager does and everything...must be a issue with that certain program.

Man im surprised, the Q9550 didnt improve my Windows boot time. How long does it take for your computers to boot into Win7? Mine takes 1 minute 25 seconds. For some reason im under the impression thats abnormally long.
 
NathanP2007 said:
Well i just put in my new Q9550 , the only question i have is why when i run the temperature program "Real Temp GT", and run the sensor test, it only records 3 of the 4 cores? Is that typical?
Click to expand...

Run the nonGT executable. GT = Gulftown = hexacore.

Buy a good SSD for better boot times.
 
duce3 said:
It is your hdd upgrade that and your boot times will improve.
Click to expand...

sfsilicon said:
Run the nonGT executable. GT = Gulftown = hexacore.

Buy a good SSD for better boot times.
Click to expand...

Yeah that makes sense. I am still curious if that is the typical boot time for most people. I mean the hard drive i am using is from the reviews iv read, quite fast and a highly rated hard drive.

(Thanks Sfsilicon, that worked)
 
From power button to "starting Windows" - :30
From power button to when I can start doing things - 1:15
From power button to when everything is loaded - 2:00

That's how it works for me with a 1TB 32mb cache HDD.
 
From boot to use in Win 7 for me is about 1 minute with the rig below using a WD 320 GB 7200 RPM HD.
 
The new SSD's are wicked fast I am looking to get one after I close on my house. They boot into windows with you being able to run apps and do things in 30 seconds flat. My raptor is still pretty fast and gives me no problem with boot times.
 
Hmm well that does kinda make me feel better about my time. Seems like 1 minute to 1 minute 20 seconds is the norm.
Why im a little suprised is i thought my hard drive was considered quite fast for being a HDD. I have the Western Digital Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB 7200 RPM 32MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive

There is no wait once windows is up though, so im happy about that. Once my desktop shows up, about 3 seconds later i can start opening the internet or programs. Its the booting up that takes the time.
 
Is it weird to notice a drop in snappyness when doing random stuff in windows, when going from E5200 (OC 3.5ghz) to my new Q9550? I dont mean in games, i just mean when opening multiple windows, and doing stuff while i move DVD rips from one hard drive to another, i seem to remember my E5200 being a bit more snappy. I would have though the things i just mentioned would have improved with a quad core, but i also know basically nothing i use actually utilizes a quad core, it utilizes a dual core, so im curious if my dual core was snappier for that reason.
 
That board should be able to bring the E5200 to ~3.7Ghz no problem.

I built my brother-in-law a system with the e5200 a few months ago.. Used my old P35 motherboard and an OLD 3-heatpipe cooler (Thermaltake Silent Tower) that I had back when I was using it on my Socket-A systems.

Did a little bit of tweaking and have it at 3.65Ghz. It will do 3.7 but i didn't feel like spending more than about 20 mintues messing with it at the time to tweak the voltages down for temperature's sake.

As for a good cheap cooler for the e5200, you can get this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835200038

I temporarily have one in my old system which has a Q6600 in it. If I add a second fan to the back of it, it will do 3.6 to 3.8Ghz no problem

Rosewill in general has been very impressive lately. I have used that cooler, one of their power supplies and one of their usb wireless N adapters. All are top notch quality and are a great deal price wise.

The e5200 and the q9550 are both 45nm chips and as such should run a bit cooler than my q6600.
 
cyclone3d said:
That board should be able to bring the E5200 to ~3.7Ghz no problem.

I built my brother-in-law a system with the e5200 a few months ago.. Used my old P35 motherboard and an OLD 3-heatpipe cooler (Thermaltake Silent Tower) that I had back when I was using it on my Socket-A systems.

Did a little bit of tweaking and have it at 3.65Ghz. It will do 3.7 but i didn't feel like spending more than about 20 mintues messing with it at the time to tweak the voltages down for temperature's sake.

As for a good cheap cooler for the e5200, you can get this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835200038

I temporarily have one in my old system which has a Q6600 in it. If I add a second fan to the back of it, it will do 3.6 to 3.8Ghz no problem

Rosewill in general has been very impressive lately. I have used that cooler, one of their power supplies and one of their usb wireless N adapters. All are top notch quality and are a great deal price wise.

The e5200 and the q9550 are both 45nm chips and as such should run a bit cooler than my q6600.
Click to expand...

Sorry friend, everything you mentioned i have already worked out. Only my most recent Q is what i am asking now? :) Thanks though.
 
NathanP2007 said:
Sorry friend, everything you mentioned i have already worked out. Only my most recent Q is what i am asking now? :) Thanks though.
Click to expand...

clock speed difference....if all your using is optimized for dual core, and thats all thats being used....its a simple clock speed difference, your dual was clocked higher, and the C2D and C2Q are essentially the same core architecture(to my knowledge)
 
Songok said:
You shouldnt have upgraded :)
Click to expand...

Im sure there are improvements that i dont utilize that i could/can. Also im sure in the future eventually things will be made to utilize quad core more. But i cant argue with your statement, like i think i already said on this thread after i bought the Q9550, my system was perfectly fine with a OC'ed E5200. But i am ok with having bought the Q9550 considering i got it for 50bucks less than MSRP. So im not pissed every day i upgraded, just the first day i thought "damn, didnt have to".

BUT oh well, now i have a extra CPU that i will be building a new system around (a cheap system to toy with) so it all works out.
 
Am still a bit curious if anyone with similar experience would have expected me to see a performance boost with the Quad or if it even makes sense that things seem less snappy with a Quad instead of OC E5200. I wouldnt think theres that huge a difference between 2.83ghz (Q9550) and 3.5ghz (e5200)
 
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