AMD's Next Gen Around the Corner?

Got to figure that there's going to be a Fermi fall refresh, would hand out the awards just yet.
 
hmm.... lets see a 6800's double the 5800's performace. would be pretty win in less then 12 months
 
minishotglass said:
wow a 28nm process. I can smell the heat and power draw go down. Nice.
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actually if you read the article nvidia is the only one going for the 28nm ATI will stick a little longer on the 40nm since the 32nm Northern islands chip fab process went kaput (big fail) they'll do southern islands (hybrid of 6xxx series and 5xxx series which isnt a bad idea)

what bothers me is nvidia jumping to 28nm on a process (TSMC's) that hasnt been yet tested/proven at all (shades of fermi) so that'll take at least til next year for fermi 2 to tape out meanwhile Northern Islands will be made on global foundries 28nm process which is better laid out already (already tested for viability)
 
ive read somewhere that the delay of the fabrication to 28nm shift will cause the 6xxx series to be released early next year rather than this year
 
Leepox said:
ive read somewhere that the delay of the fabrication to 28nm shift will cause the 6xxx series to be released early next year rather than this year
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From what I have read, its speculated that the Southern Island will come on the tried and proven 40nm this year, while the Northern Island will be on 28nm next year. :)
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
From what I have read, its speculated that the Southern Island will come on the tried and proven 40nm this year, while the Northern Island will be on 28nm next year. :)
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yes, it will be 40nm

Northern Islands will be the first ATI 28nm process the following year
 
psychoticdream said:
actually if you read the article nvidia is the only one going for the 28nm ATI will stick a little longer on the 40nm since the 32nm Northern islands chip fab process went kaput (big fail) they'll do southern islands (hybrid of 6xxx series and 5xxx series which isnt a bad idea)

what bothers me is nvidia jumping to 28nm on a process (TSMC's) that hasnt been yet tested/proven at all (shades of fermi) so that'll take at least til next year for fermi 2 to tape out meanwhile Northern Islands will be made on global foundries 28nm process which is better laid out already (already tested for viability)
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Nvidia does not have the option. While Charlie does paint it in the worse light possible it doesn't change the basic truth of the issue. They need that die shrink in the worst way to make Fermi feasible. its as simple as that. it doesn't matter how much cash your sitting on, sooner or latter you need to start making money on a product line or drop it. as this is a core product they can't afford to drop it.
 
Nvidia should be able to tweak Fermi on 40nm for slightly more performance and less voltage/power useage. I doubt enough to compete with SI on any of the 3 though.
 
Valset said:
Nvidia does not have the option. While Charlie does paint it in the worse light possible it doesn't change the basic truth of the issue. They need that die shrink in the worst way to make Fermi feasible. its as simple as that. it doesn't matter how much cash your sitting on, sooner or latter you need to start making money on a product line or drop it. as this is a core product they can't afford to drop it.
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their core product will be the $50-$150 cards :p
 
Valset said:
they are getting their asses handed to them there as well. but still its the high end that sells a company (at least in name). I am hoping for the die shrink to go well
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I don't think high end has much to do with anything, at least not for a 1-gen gap in the leadership. NV will sell GTX 380s via OEMS regardless of how well the 480 does :p not to mention new fermi based quadro(even low end cards)
 
piscian18 said:
Starting to wonder if I can just wait this generation out.
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if you don't need a DX11 your 275 should work just fine. a 5870 would be an upgrade but outside of a handful of games you should be close to max settings.
 
Valset said:
if you don't need a DX11 your 275 should work just fine. a 5870 would be an upgrade but outside of a handful of games you should be close to max settings.
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Thats generally how I've been feeling. Hell the next game on my "to beat" list is Brothers in Arms,....but eyefinity....neeeeed.
 
Tamlin_WSGF said:
20nm is very good news if true! :) The heat and noise makes Fermi not an option for me at the moment (I have a quiet computing setup, so it won't fit that profile). With 20nm, chances are that this will not be an issue and that will increase my choices in next GFX card! :cool:
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yeah but thats probably 2 yrs from now before we see an actual tape out of any graphics cards 3 if thigns go the same way as they did with fermi

by then the world will be over!
OVER!

:D
 
psychoticdream said:
yeah but thats probably 2 yrs from now before we see an actual tape out of any graphics cards 3 if thigns go the same way as they did with fermi

by then the world will be over!
OVER!

:D
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Would suck for those that opted for "double lifetime warranty" from XFX :D

Warranty expires at the end of the Mayan calander. :p
 
Hamish Campbell said:
ahHAAHAHAahaha right. keep on dreaming there buddy.
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Nvidia recovered from the disaster that was the FX series. AMD doesn't have that kind of luck since it takes them a handful of gens to get a good part out. I'm certain NV will recover from the " minor at best " fallback that is Fermi cards. I can see them doing a refresh before trying to get back on the right track with 28NM parts.
 
DarkLegacy said:
Nvidia recovered from the disaster that was the FX series. AMD doesn't have that kind of luck since it takes them a handful of gens to get a good part out. I'm certain NV will recover from the " minor at best " fallback that is Fermi cards. I can see them doing a refresh before trying to get back on the right track with 28NM parts.
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What? AMD recovered from R600 just as fast as NV recovered from the FX, the next refresh(3800 was good), as was the fx59xx and then the 4800 from AMD and 6800 from NV
 
DarkLegacy said:
Nvidia recovered from the disaster that was the FX series. AMD doesn't have that kind of luck since it takes them a handful of gens to get a good part out. I'm certain NV will recover from the " minor at best " fallback that is Fermi cards. I can see them doing a refresh before trying to get back on the right track with 28NM parts.
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i'm not trying to be rude but have you been paying attention to whats been going on in the past year and half?
 
A related article from Xbit Labs about Northern Islands:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/...d_28nm_Graphics_Chips_at_Globalfoundries.html
28nm Graphics Chips from AMD Incoming
[04/19/2010 02:15 PM]
by Anton Shilov

ATI, graphics business unit of Advanced Micro Devices, will use 28nm HKMG manufacturing process of Globalfoundries to make graphics processors. AMD is obliged to use Globalfoundries to make graphics chips, but the company has not disclosed any concrete plans after the contract manufacturer cancelled its 32nm bulk fabrication process.

“The first intersection of our AMD GPUs and Globalfoundries are on the 28nm. We haven’t been public with respect to any timing there,” said Dirk Meyer, chief executive officer of AMD, during a quarterly conference call with financial analysts.

Globalfoundries is projected to start making commercial chips at 28nm node sometime in 2011, presumably early in the year. However, this does not mean that ATI will be ready with 28nm graphics processing units early next year.

Globalfoundries’ 28nm fabrication process will be available in two variants:

* The 28nm-HP (High Performance) variant will be optimized for leading-edge applications in such areas as graphics, game consoles, storage, networking and media encoding.
* The 28nm-SLP (Super Low Power) variant is optimized for wireless mobile applications such as baseband, application processors, and other handheld functions that require long battery lifetime.
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Assuming AMD comes out with either Refresh or New Line this Fall or Winter 2010, we can logically assume it will be 40nm since according to Xbit 28nm is not coming until 2011.

So basically:

Northern Islands 2011 - 28nm via Global Foundries
Southern Islands Q3/4 2010 - 40nm via TSMC

TSMC is dropping the ball right now. Nvidia would probably have to go to Global Foundries if they want to compete with 28nm. TSMC if I recall correctly was quite late to get 40nm ready.
 
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Digital Viper-X- said:
I wonder if NV will use Global Foundries for 28NM :p?
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Jen Hsun Huang has publicly stated that they will use TSMC exclusively. Kind of a dumb thing to say in public, too, because TSMC now knows that they can price Nvidia higher than they normally would because they know Nvidia will stick with them longer.

A refusal to use the only contract fab that can produce 28nm will bite them in the ass if it really takes off.
 
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MrWizard6600 said:
sounds like a linear shrink to me...
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It's not.
Read Vexerz's post, he summed it up nicely.

fattypants said:
Jen Hsun Huang has publicly stated that they will use TSMC exclusively. Kind of a dumb thing to say in public, too, because TSMC now knows that they can price Nvidia higher than a lot of their other customers because they know Nvidia will stick with them longer.

A refusal to use the only contract fab that can produce 28nm will bite them in the ass if it really takes off.
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They will change fab, if necessary.
 
fattypants said:
Jen Hsun Huang has publicly stated that they will use TSMC exclusively. Kind of a dumb thing to say in public, too, because TSMC now knows that they can price Nvidia higher than they normally would because they know Nvidia will stick with them longer.

A refusal to use the only contract fab that can produce 28nm will bite them in the ass if it really takes off.
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I don't see that, look here http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/...t_20_30_Further_Delays_Possible_Analysts.html

if they are still at 25% yields ATI is going to mop the floor with them. they are going to have to go where they can get their products made. its as simple as that
 
Umm... read that again Vexerz. They're stating a jump to 20nm tech instead of 22nm tech from 28nm tech. They will be doing 28nm tech, but they won't be doing 22nm tech as projected.

@piscian18, just SLI your GTX 275 when prices drop, your motherboard can handle it (I think). nVidia is supposed to release 3D surround sometime soon, which will allow you to use 3 monitors in SLI mode, and this is supposed to work with both GTX 260 and above, and the GTX 480/470.
 
Tsumi said:
Umm... read that again Vexerz. They're stating a jump to 20nm tech instead of 22nm tech from 28nm tech. They will be doing 28nm tech, but they won't be doing 22nm tech as projected.

@piscian18, just SLI your GTX 275 when prices drop, your motherboard can handle it (I think). nVidia is supposed to release 3D surround sometime soon, which will allow you to use 3 monitors in SLI mode, and this is supposed to work with both GTX 260 and above, and the GTX 480/470.
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Yes my bad didn't read correctly. I don't believe anything TSMC says anymore though. http://www.dvhardware.net/article35584.html
 
Lol. Frankly, I don't really care too much about what's going on, my two GTX 275's in SLI is more than powerful enough for a while to come. Got them at great prices too (one was $160 new, the other was $150 used off of craigslist). I can probably sell both right now and make a profit :D
 
So you say that the 32nm process failed. What about the new intel chips that are 32nm are is that completely different for gpus to cpus???
 
what are the chances of the 6xxx being compatible with 5xxx ?

i mean i dont see anyone teaming up 4xxx with 5xxx

so i guess with crossfire the architecture has to be very simular ? .. but with 6xxx being an adapted 5xxx at 40nm with some bits on would you think it would be possible to mate the two

phill :)
 
drnilly007 said:
So you say that the 32nm process failed. What about the new intel chips that are 32nm are is that completely different for gpus to cpus???
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Intel has its own fabs (as well as IBM) and they invest heavily on process node R&D. They do not rely on third parties(TSMC, UMC) to make their chips like Nvidia and ATI do.
AMD used to have its own fab, but spun them off into a separate company and thus you get the now independent GlobalFoundries.
 
drnilly007 said:
So you say that the 32nm process failed. What about the new intel chips that are 32nm are is that completely different for gpus to cpus???
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IIRC it is actually, since GPUs use the Bulk Silicon process to be made, and CPUs tend not to be, at least for AMD's CPUs which use SOI.
 
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