5.3 Months Until ...

Im not quite sure how the EVGA vm or notfred work....but i would guess that they are not compliant with the EULA.

Finstall just downloads the client as part of the process. They are not distributing it.
 
Downloading and running the client as part of the script would be fine. That should get around any EULA issues since you are running the Stanford installer. I don't quite get where you agree to the EULA with the CLI client, but it apparently isn't an issue to automate downloading it since finstall has been around for a long time.
 
Has anyone asked Kyle if he would sponsor a give away of some old test equipment for new members that say, fold for a month or reach 100k and have a drawing or something?

I bet if 1000 people ran for a month that after the contest was over 500 of them would keep running. Surely this folding rank thing is good for publicity...

Something else I didn't see mentioned is that things are heating up and people are scaling back. It's already hitting mid 80's down here and I've already scaled back a little. I'm sure I'm not the only one either...
 
I dont believe folding should be about prizes or points but that is just me it is evga that is ruining the whole spirit of folding..... What happened to just helping someone cause they needed help?
 
Careful, you might get the trolls from over there back here and they'll be all over that

but don't worry, you aren't the only one thinking that

I think a single prize or prize for just a few isn't a bad idea if we can get Kyle behind it, it would invite many to get involved, and a good way to get the word out. Sure, it doesn't have the staying power of offering everyone money to fold for us, but I don't think an event with only one (or 2-3) winner/s would be too bad, odds are most people entering would know they aren't gonna win, and if they went far enough to enter we may keep more of them.

We could also mention in the contest what you get if you make it to 500k
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
I think the allure of "prizes" is too much of a double edged sword. Your initial #s get a boost because of people after the "free stuff" but then once the contest/allure is gone, how many of those people actually actively monitor their clients? I would argue not many.

I think "prizes" is really beyond the point (as Enigma said), I see how it helps, but I don't really like that idea. EVGA may overtake us but the fact that it took "free $#!t" for them to do it is something I find rather sad (and would be embarrassed by if I was a member of that team). They may win by default, but it's not by honor. :p

Team 33 don't need "free $#!t" to want to have a hand in helping cure disease!!!~! :D
 
Well said zero, and your on my threat list too boot! (still got months tho)
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
zero2dash said:
I think the allure of "prizes" is too much of a double edged sword. Your initial #s get a boost because of people after the "free stuff" but then once the contest/allure is gone, how many of those people actually actively monitor their clients? I would argue not many.

I think "prizes" is really beyond the point (as Enigma said), I see how it helps, but I don't really like that idea. EVGA may overtake us but the fact that it took "free $#!t" for them to do it is something I find rather sad (and would be embarrassed by if I was a member of that team). They may win by default, but it's not by honor. :p

Team 33 don't need "free $#!t" to want to have a hand in helping cure disease!!!~! :D
Click to expand...

Woops... I thought this thread was about trying to ramp up to compete with a team that's gaining on team 33 daily by giving away free stuff to its members.

And I still would argue that some of the newbies would get caught up in the spirit of it and keep going even after the prizes are gone.
 
OvrrDrive said:
Woops... I thought this thread was about trying to ramp up to compete with a team that's gaining on team 33 daily by giving away free stuff to its members.

And I still would argue that some of the newbies would get caught up in the spirit of it and keep going even after the prizes are gone.
Click to expand...

and now you understand why evga is catching up to us.. no one can agree on anything..

btw screw honor at this point.. we can complain and whine about how evga is getting their points.. but in the end they are getting them.. time to take the gloves off and actually do something about it instead of sitting in the corner like a wimp crying about how evga is getting their points.. no ones going to feel sorry for us when we get past up.. we havent held first place for this long because we just sat here.. we did it by fight our way through the thousands of other teams.. now it just seems like people would rather complain because a team finally found a way to catch up to us instead of actually trying to find a way to ramp up points and put EVGA back in their place with all the other teams that have tried and failed to pass [H]..
 
Enigma said:
I dont believe folding should be about prizes or points but that is just me it is evga that is ruining the whole spirit of folding..... What happened to just helping someone cause they needed help?
Click to expand...

I just got into folding a few days ago, but what is this scandel with eVGA and folding? It sounds rather juicy and interesting to get a quick summary of.

zero2dash said:
I think the allure of "prizes" is too much of a double edged sword. Your initial #s get a boost because of people after the "free stuff" but then once the contest/allure is gone, how many of those people actually actively monitor their clients? I would argue not many.

I think "prizes" is really beyond the point (as Enigma said), I see how it helps, but I don't really like that idea. EVGA may overtake us but the fact that it took "free $#!t" for them to do it is something I find rather sad (and would be embarrassed by if I was a member of that team). They may win by default, but it's not by honor. :p

Team 33 don't need "free $#!t" to want to have a hand in helping cure disease!!!~! :D
Click to expand...

If this is what that whole eVGA thing is about, maybe we can get Kyle to put that up on the main page to advertise for our team! I joined a few days ago after seeing Kyle put a message up on the main page, and I really think this is a good cause. I'm quit work and am still finishing up grad school so money is tight right now, but I eventually plan on building one kickass boxen that will have a lot of muscle. I am curious to see how Thuban is going to do when it comes to folding. Based on this current architecture they continue to use, I suspect it will come nowhere close to the Gulftown.........
 
amdgamer said:
I just got into folding a few days ago, but what is this scandel with eVGA and folding? It sounds rather juicy and interesting to get a quick summary of.



If this is what that whole eVGA thing is about, maybe we can get Kyle to put that up on the main page to advertise for our team! I joined a few days ago after seeing Kyle put a message up on the main page, and I really think this is a good cause. I'm quit work and am still finishing up grad school so money is tight right now, but I eventually plan on building one kickass boxen that will have a lot of muscle. I am curious to see how Thuban is going to do when it comes to folding. Based on this current architecture they continue to use, I suspect it will come nowhere close to the Gulftown.........
Click to expand...

in the search thing on the forum.. go to advanced.. select the folding section and type EVGA you will find a couple of the threads about the EVGA fiasco..
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
in the search thing on the forum.. go to advanced.. select the folding section and type EVGA you will find a couple of the threads about the EVGA fiasco..
Click to expand...

Thanks, I didn't realize that it was discussed on the forum. I stopped reading as paying people to fold kind of seems to take away from the meaning of it. It is kind of like people who go making donations at the last minute at the end of December not because they really care, but because they are trying to reduce their tax liabilities.

I suppose that it is for a good cause though, and it is eVGA who is footing the bill for this. Not a bad thing considering that you will have people buying eVGA stuff who might not have ever considered eVGA stuff. I wonder if stuff like this is why eVGA is its own religion as you can't talk sense into someone who has pledged their loyalty to that company. I used to buy only eVGA, but I at least considered other alternatives...........
 
I think the thing that pisses most teams off is that we are backed by a forum, not a super giant computer manufacturer

altho I'm in favor of a contest with some prizes. EVGA's member count shows that even if you give them 10$ every month you'll still lose a bunch of people, some people just are that way. I'm sure if we can get a few kick ass parts together we can get the headliner space on front page we need to get new people involved.

Say we have a sticky just for the contest and the people entering, have them come on over, post forum/folding names, and well have someone get down the startig scores (so it's not just for new people). Then, after like 45 days, everyone that hit a certain number(like 100k) will have their name in a raffle, and those that hit something hard like 500k can get a second entry. This gives enough time for the little guys to squeeze out the points and challenges others who want to really get involved to shoot for a big score.

Obviously it's gotta be open, but I'm sure there's those of us in the top slots who would stay out just to give the newcomers a good chance (they may feel intimidated if Tiger or Bee or them join in lol)

Of course, no matter what we do, it all hinges on advertising (read: support from the home site)

I'm sure Kyle has plenty of test hardware laying around, hell, we might even be able to get him to fold again lol
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
Vaulter98c said:
I think the thing that pisses most teams off is that we are backed by a forum, not a super giant computer manufacturer

altho I'm in favor of a contest with some prizes. EVGA's member count shows that even if you give them 10$ every month you'll still lose a bunch of people, some people just are that way. I'm sure if we can get a few kick ass parts together we can get the headliner space on front page we need to get new people involved.

Say we have a sticky just for the contest and the people entering, have them come on over, post forum/folding names, and well have someone get down the startig scores (so it's not just for new people). Then, after like 45 days, everyone that hit a certain number(like 100k) will have their name in a raffle, and those that hit something hard like 500k can get a second entry. This gives enough time for the little guys to squeeze out the points and challenges others who want to really get involved to shoot for a big score.

Obviously it's gotta be open, but I'm sure there's those of us in the top slots who would stay out just to give the newcomers a good chance (they may feel intimidated if Tiger or Bee or them join in lol)

Of course, no matter what we do, it all hinges on advertising (read: support from the home site)

I'm sure Kyle has plenty of test hardware laying around, hell, we might even be able to get him to fold again lol
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
Click to expand...

Well I consider it an honor to fold for this team then, knowing that the people here do it for the right reasons. After all, I know we have a bunch of eVGA fans here who could have just as easily started folding for that other team to subsidize the purchase of their next eVGA stuff. I'm shocked though that Kyle no longer folds though. For now, i'm only going to run my desktop rig and my laptop full time. Once summer gets here in full, i'll probably only be folding while I sleep just to keep temps somewhat tolerable in my computer room. As i've said in another thread, the temps in my computer room can hit 88 degrees on a very hot summer day even with the window unit on full blast. Can't upgrade to a higher BTU unit as this circuit couldn't handle any more.
 
Well were glad to have you aboard !

If you want, start a thread since your new, tells us a bit about yourself
you'll find were a little crazy here, but you'll catch the bug before long ;)
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
I honestly think there is not way to beat a team that is basically paid for. So do we sit here for months waiting for defeat, or do we bail out and compete elsewhere?
 
Bail? That's not very [H]ard. Realisticly we won't hold them off forever, but I don't see that as a reason to switch causes. I think if we get some new blood we can hold them back a bit longer, and then well be in the sweet spot, the target will be on their backs, and we can start the chase!!
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
But since you're here, would you have any ideas about forum contests or whatnot, since you pretty much are HardOCP
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
Kendrak said:
The money will stop in time.

They are the hare and we are the tortuous. We all know how the story ends.

After they have gotten their win, lets see what they do with it. My guess is it wont take long to start scratching at each others faces. We have found out over time that a large group of people is hard to keep happy. They have a goal, take us down, and that keeps them focused. I want to see what happens in the afterward.

/sits back

Fold on!

Click to expand...

Amen to this.
 
A couple of observations:

1. There is nothing we can do (even if we all agreed) to stop evga from passing us.
2. We all saw it coming, and now its time for us to keep doing our thing, and just see what happens.
3. There are still things we can and should do to make our team better (even tho it wont stop evga)
 
Combine Nitro's post with Kendrak's post, and sprinkle in a little Monkey just for good measure

We Can't stop them, but we all know EVGA as a company only took intrest in their team as an advertising deal. Now, while we can't compete on that level, we sure as hell can try. I think it's worth it to take this time and organize our team, even if it takes a while and we get passed doing it. Even with a fully organized team we would be hard pressed to catch them, but we can keep the gap small, and in time the money faucet will run dry, and then we will be in a perfect place to strike, and once there is a new number one, the world will have a fresh target to shoot for.

I think we should stick to F@H. Losing to EVGA really doesnt look that bad when you take in ALL the factors, but dropping out of the game the moment we lose our spot (we're still second i the world, and we all know who REALLY is number one in our hearts) would really look bad for us.

I don't care much for the idea of contests and give outs myself, but every time it comes up I warm up to the idea a little more.

I think we need to take this insteps, because everything we have been doing so far has been a cluster fuck, everyone is trying to do everything all at the same time. I think first and foremost, before we go and try to expand our user base by a large number, lets clean things up here.

1. Guides - These are in TERRIBLE shape as of late, not because we are lazy but because how fast the times are moving. I think it would be in the best intrest of the team to redo all of the guides, and hell, maybe make a few more that are folding related. A few youtube videos may not hurt either. User advice is good, but the base of the people that visit the DC forums could be called lurkers, and we need to give them good guides.

2. Localization - While I'm pretty sure thats not the word I'm looking for, hear me out. Anyways, I think we need another website, some off the forums place where we dont have to worry about thinkgs getting burried in posts. Sure the stickies are nice, but its all just a drone of user made threads on the first page, and I for one get distracted very easy when I'm looking for how to help. I say we make a website for the guides, one place where anyone can go and get up to date information, loaded with peer reviewed methods and pictures/videos. Hosting this is simple, we already have a hardfolding website, lets redo it. We will still need the forums as a place for daily chatter/suport, but I think having a seperate place (which also has a homepage link right now) for any setup info would be nice. This way, you dont even have to be a member of the forums to start folding, because I'm sure lots of the readers just come for articles and reviews and never touvh the forums. This way, they could click a link, get all the in depth material they need presented in an easy to use fashion, and be on their marry way.

More to come,justgot a call out... hate being dispatch sometimes..
 
amdgamer said:
BTW while I have your attention, what in the world in a -bigadv? I keep reading about it and searched over on the Stanford forums but still can't find much information on it. What would you need to run such a thing?
Click to expand...

This is what I mean. Our guide has all the info you would need to run it, and so do other forums, but things can get confusing in forums real fast. One unified source would be much simpler I think
 
Vaulter98c said:
This is what I mean. Our guide has all the info you would need to run it, and so do other forums, but things can get confusing in forums real fast. One unified source would be much simpler I think
Click to expand...

Ahh thanks as I found it. The bigadv guide was right under my nose and I looked at all the wrong places. I guess no -bigadv for me anytime soon anyway as I only buy AMD stuff and I likely couldn't afford anything AMD based with more than 8 cores at any near point in the future..........
 
Vaulter98c said:
2. Localization - While I'm pretty sure thats not the word I'm looking for, hear me out. Anyways, I think we need another website, some off the forums place where we dont have to worry about thinkgs getting burried in posts. Sure the stickies are nice, but its all just a drone of user made threads on the first page, and I for one get distracted very easy when I'm looking for how to help. I say we make a website for the guides, one place where anyone can go and get up to date information, loaded with peer reviewed methods and pictures/videos. Hosting this is simple, we already have a hardfolding website, lets redo it. We will still need the forums as a place for daily chatter/suport, but I think having a seperate place (which also has a homepage link right now) for any setup info would be nice. This way, you dont even have to be a member of the forums to start folding, because I'm sure lots of the readers just come for articles and reviews and never touvh the forums. This way, they could click a link, get all the in depth material they need presented in an easy to use fashion, and be on their marry way.
Click to expand...

Vaulter dont take this the wrong way, but I think that is a terrible idea. I mean we cant keep the stuff in the stickies up to date as is, with as fast as things are changing. I think adding a second place would only make things worse not better.

Just my 2 cents

On another note musky had mentioned the idea of some VB scripts to help automate the install of the SMP client or Multi-GPU. I dont have the skills required to pull that off, and im not sure if anyone here does. But there is a site, rentacoder.com and we could pay to have one made.

And it wouldnt be alot, there are coders overseas who do basic projects like this for $5-30.

Might be worth looking into.

Hell that said if someone here on [H] can do it I would throw them some cash.
 
None taken, I just am throwing out ideas that I think would work, hopefully others would to, and I like the rent a coder thing lol
 
Vaulter98c said:
Combine Nitro's post with Kendrak's post, and sprinkle in a little Monkey just for good measure

We Can't stop them, but we all know EVGA as a company only took intrest in their team as an advertising deal. Now, while we can't compete on that level, we sure as hell can try. I think it's worth it to take this time and organize our team, even if it takes a while and we get passed doing it. Even with a fully organized team we would be hard pressed to catch them, but we can keep the gap small, and in time the money faucet will run dry, and then we will be in a perfect place to strike, and once there is a new number one, the world will have a fresh target to shoot for.

I think we should stick to F@H. Losing to EVGA really doesnt look that bad when you take in ALL the factors, but dropping out of the game the moment we lose our spot (we're still second i the world, and we all know who REALLY is number one in our hearts) would really look bad for us.

I don't care much for the idea of contests and give outs myself, but every time it comes up I warm up to the idea a little more.

I think we need to take this insteps, because everything we have been doing so far has been a cluster fuck, everyone is trying to do everything all at the same time. I think first and foremost, before we go and try to expand our user base by a large number, lets clean things up here.

1. Guides - These are in TERRIBLE shape as of late, not because we are lazy but because how fast the times are moving. I think it would be in the best intrest of the team to redo all of the guides, and hell, maybe make a few more that are folding related. A few youtube videos may not hurt either. User advice is good, but the base of the people that visit the DC forums could be called lurkers, and we need to give them good guides.

2. Localization - While I'm pretty sure thats not the word I'm looking for, hear me out. Anyways, I think we need another website, some off the forums place where we dont have to worry about thinkgs getting burried in posts. Sure the stickies are nice, but its all just a drone of user made threads on the first page, and I for one get distracted very easy when I'm looking for how to help. I say we make a website for the guides, one place where anyone can go and get up to date information, loaded with peer reviewed methods and pictures/videos. Hosting this is simple, we already have a hardfolding website, lets redo it. We will still need the forums as a place for daily chatter/suport, but I think having a seperate place (which also has a homepage link right now) for any setup info would be nice. This way, you dont even have to be a member of the forums to start folding, because I'm sure lots of the readers just come for articles and reviews and never touvh the forums. This way, they could click a link, get all the in depth material they need presented in an easy to use fashion, and be on their marry way.

More to come,justgot a call out... hate being dispatch sometimes..
Click to expand...


to add to the last part of your post.. i think what we need to do is create a sub forum that ONLY has the guides.. nothing else.. so that users can post their guides.. to help others.. because for i find a lot of the guides on here over extensive and much longer then they need to be.. along with that the guides the users here have made will not get buried by all the other threads created.. also we could have a second sub forum with reviews about various cards and hardware and how they perform with F@H..

but these are just idea's to stream line the process so that it makes it easier for new members to find the information they need instead of having to search for everything.. the current guide is nice but its a friggin mess in my opinion.. just makes it a pain in the ass to find anything.. i would rather have each section as its own thread.. so winSMP has a thread, VM bigadv SMP thread and have the threads locked so they dont get flooded with useless posts..

the only other way of doing this besides making a sub forum is to make a Wiki page with guides that can be edited by the users here so that when things are updated by F@H we can update the guides accordingly..

the wiki is probably the best option of all of them and would save us(the people that have been here the longest) and all the new people thinking about joining F@H or the team the headaches we currently go through trying to troubleshoot peoples issues..

I know we have a folding website for the team.. but seriously how many of us use it? since the only way to access that website on [H] currently is by going to the news page.. most people as with myself have the forums bookmarked and not the main news page.. as a team and a forum we could do a whole lot better of a job streamlining everything and making it far more user friendly then it currently is..
 
Kowan said:
I don't have any interest in any of the other DC projects.
Click to expand...
Neither do I at the moment. I think we should just stick to it and see how things develop in the aftermath. Maybe EVGA has staying power, maybe they don't. Time will decide either way and WE should be there to see the outcome...
_____________________________________________________________________

Yes, they will be #1 however it's achieved, and this is something we will accept with honor. There is no dishonor in second place if arrived at with dignity; the dignity that comes with an effort knowing you gave it your best shot. Reproach results one relents in the face of a challenge.
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
to add to the last part of your post.. i think what we need to do is create a sub forum that ONLY has the guides.. nothing else.. so that users can post their guides.. to help others.. because for i find a lot of the guides on here over extensive and much longer then they need to be.. along with that the guides the users here have made will not get buried by all the other threads created.. also we could have a second sub forum with reviews about various cards and hardware and how they perform with F@H..

but these are just idea's to stream line the process so that it makes it easier for new members to find the information they need instead of having to search for everything.. the current guide is nice but its a friggin mess in my opinion.. just makes it a pain in the ass to find anything.. i would rather have each section as its own thread.. so winSMP has a thread, VM bigadv SMP thread and have the threads locked so they dont get flooded with useless posts..
Click to expand...
Honestly, this is one of the best ideas I read all year. I've been noticing the huge problem we have with the guides, but since I know most of the info contained therein, I didn't say anything about it - till now. A subforum where the only thing contained within are guides and other useful information that is advisory and instructional in nature is an excellent idea. :cool:
 
Start a monthly folding challenge contest. That is what I did for my team and it gives a little boost as well as forces a few people to be more involved for a days each month.

The VB script that you furnish to run the install is a really good idea. If you could make it happen with the SMP client so everyone installs it but not necessarily has the -smp flag it would be a good way to have everyone already set up they just need to show a little more interest. You could even go as far as having a second script that runs the config again and simply adds the flag but you need to ask for it. If the script doesn't get done then a lot of pictures of exactly what needs to get done. Good instructions won't always work since some people don't understand logical ordering due to the incorrect usage of it in common communicating.

I would focus on getting people to upgrade to or start using SMP2 since you don't have to worry about things so much when you get illiterate people to use it. With SMP2 on a 2.6 dual AM2 chip it gets just over 1k instead of 500-700 with SMP or two single core clients. Getting people to remember to turn off or pause GPU2 clients usually means after a week the normal user just never turns it back on. Plus they will never notice it having a negative effect unless they do not have very much RAM.

And if you are wondering who I am here.
 
I gotta say +1 to a guides sub forum.

Small Form Factor has a separate sub forum just for the gallery.
 
sirmonkey1985 said:
the only other way of doing this besides making a sub forum is to make a Wiki page with guides that can be edited by the users here so that when things are updated by F@H we can update the guides accordingly..

the wiki is probably the best option of all of them and would save us(the people that have been here the longest) and all the new people thinking about joining F@H or the team the headaches we currently go through trying to troubleshoot peoples issues..
Click to expand...

I like this, and a wiki is the right tool for semi-static content like this. If I get a chance, I'll try to set up an example. The only way it would work is if we all paticipate in keeping it accurate though.

sirmonkey1985 said:
I know we have a folding website for the team.. but seriously how many of us use it? since the only way to access that website on [H] currently is by going to the news page.. most people as with myself have the forums bookmarked and not the main news page.. as a team and a forum we could do a whole lot better of a job streamlining everything and making it far more user friendly then it currently is..
Click to expand...

Yep, I have the dc section of the forum and my stats page on hardfolding.com bookmarked. I can't remember the last time I went to the main page.
 
ghost6303 said:
FOR THE [H]ORDE
Click to expand...

/salute

salute.jpg

They seem to do get the point across better.
 
SmokeRngs said:
This isn't meant as an attempt to piss in your Wheaties, but fuck that! There's no way in hell I'm going to bend over and let them shove a dick up my ass. If I'm going to go down, I'm going to go down fighting. I would hope this team would think the same way.

Hell, if I won the lottery tomorrow, I'd build a goddamn superfarm big enough to shove a dildo the size of Texas up EVGA's ass.

Simply put, EVGA will not be able to keep this up forever. They are going to lose people and they are going to lose a lot of them. The company can keep paying for the folding team but it's not going to keep going. Right now they have someone to catch and pass. I believe it's the competition which is keeping people in it on their side. After taking first place they'll keep going for a while but it won't last. They will lose people and production and I doubt they'll get it back.

For years we've gone back and forth with OCAU for the lead. There were times people thought we wouldn't be able to get the top spot back and we proved them wrong. I see this as the exact same. There is a dedication and long term commitment this team has which EVGA will never be able to match.

The production of this team has continued to climb higher and higher over the years. Part of this has to do with different point structures and different clients but much of it has to do with the dedication of the core of the team. We don't give up. We keep adding more and more and pushing what we have harder and harder.

Simply put, we don't bend over and politely take it in the ass while asking for another. Anyone here who thinks that way can kiss my ass.
Click to expand...

thank you..

/passes a 24 pack to the man of wisdom and the guy that said it a whole lot better then i could of..
 
SmokeRngs said:
Simply put, EVGA will not be able to keep this up forever. They are going to lose people and they are going to lose a lot of them. The company can keep paying for the folding team but it's not going to keep going. Right now they have someone to catch and pass. I believe it's the competition which is keeping people in it on their side. After taking first place they'll keep going for a while but it won't last. They will lose people and production and I doubt they'll get it back.

For years we've gone back and forth with OCAU for the lead. There were times people thought we wouldn't be able to get the top spot back and we proved them wrong. I see this as the exact same. There is a dedication and long term commitment this team has which EVGA will never be able to match.

The production of this team has continued to climb higher and higher over the years. Part of this has to do with different point structures and different clients but much of it has to do with the dedication of the core of the team. We don't give up. We keep adding more and more and pushing what we have harder and harder.

Simply put, we don't bend over and politely take it in the ass while asking for another. Anyone here who thinks that way can kiss my ass.
Click to expand...

AMEN BROTHER!!!
 
Glad were all behind sticking together, I'd hate to see this team split
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
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