Cops Blame Computer Glitch for 50 Raids on Elderly Couple

CommanderFrank

CommanderFrank

Cat Can't Scratch It
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May 9, 2000
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"After news broke that Walter Martin, an 83-year-old war vet, and his 82-year-old wife continued to endure raids after pleading their case years ago in a letter to authorities, Police Commissioner Ray Kelly told detectives to fix the problem.The dozens of raids, which the Martins faced up to three times a week over a period of eight years, stem from a fundamental technology mix-up that started when the couple's Marine Park address was used to test an NYPD computer system in 2002, police said yesterday." I would have to call the police on that as being a tad slow on the uptake.

Image and news video of the crime scene in link :p
 
That's unbelievable. Now they're going to get harassed all over again...by lawyers pounding at their door.
 
There needs to be a "zero tolerance" policy for wrong address raids.
The city's lucky no one got shot.
...police have showed up at the house from precincts all over the city, banging on the Martins' door searching for a different suspect -- from alleged murderers to robbers to rogue cops...
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0_o
 
CaptNumbNutz said:
I would say that is grounds to sue for harassment.
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Really? Why does everyone fall back on this? I mean if the guy had a legit heart attack or the couple was actually detained maybe. But It was a mistake. They happen. Why get lawyers involved, when a the good old face to face apology was good enough?

America's new motto : Just sue them.

Ridiculous.
 
tjwenger said:
Really? Why does everyone fall back on this? I mean if the guy had a legit heart attack or the couple was actually detained maybe. But It was a mistake. They happen. Why get lawyers involved, when a the good old face to face apology was good enough?

America's new motto : Just sue them.

Ridiculous.
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What part of FIFTY TIMES did you miss?
 
tjwenger said:
Really? Why does everyone fall back on this? I mean if the guy had a legit heart attack or the couple was actually detained maybe. But It was a mistake. They happen. Why get lawyers involved, when a the good old face to face apology was good enough?

America's new motto : Just sue them.

Ridiculous.
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It may not be grounds for suing, but the head of the person who was supposed to wipe the database in 2007 should roll and receive some sort of reprimand or punishment.
 
Hopefully the city will find some way to compensate the Martins. Granted if it was only a handful of times an apology would do, but over fifty raids in eight years is just mind boggling.
 
tjwenger said:
Really? Why does everyone fall back on this? I mean if the guy had a legit heart attack or the couple was actually detained maybe. But It was a mistake. They happen. Why get lawyers involved, when a the good old face to face apology was good enough?

America's new motto : Just sue them.

Ridiculous.
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Hmm. Read the article?

If I kicked you in the dick once, and apologized, maybe we could work it out without much additional fuss. If I kicked you in the dick 50 times since 2002, you might get frustrated with my shenanigans.
 
there's no excuse for that shit

I can understand once, maybe even two times, but after that, you have to accept responsibility for your actions, the man is a god damn war hero, he's entitled to spend the last years of his life without wondering if the Keystone Kops are going to kick his door in.

He should hire some lawyers and sue those clowns, they should know better than to do that shit.
 
bicycle_wreck said:
Hmm. Read the article?

If I kicked you in the dick once, and apologized, maybe we could work it out without much additional fuss. If I kicked you in the dick 50 times since 2002, you might get frustrated with my shenanigans.
Click to expand...

My favorite analogy this week. :D

I can't believe there are enough different cops running into this that at least sometime one would go... "Oh crap, guys, I remember this house. It's a couple of old people, not a gang-banger hangout."
I suppose you can't be expected to remember over a period of years, but wow. Maybe if the the couple put out a sign on their lawn explaining it. Then at least maybe the raiders would think about knocking first, lol.
 
The police chief did come and apologize in person. He also said that he implemented a check system to be sure it wouldn't happen again. As long as that remains the case, I don't think they need to sue.
 
....and don't forget, they also brought a cheesecake :p

Konig-Wolf said:
The police chief did come and apologize in person. He also said that he implemented a check system to be sure it wouldn't happen again. As long as that remains the case, I don't think they need to sue.
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Konig-Wolf said:
The police chief did come and apologize in person. He also said that he implemented a check system to be sure it wouldn't happen again. As long as that remains the case, I don't think they need to sue.
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Yeah, and when they actually have an emergency and call 911 I wonder if the check in the system will block the address, or simply delay the police arriving.
 
tjwenger said:
Really? Why does everyone fall back on this? I mean if the guy had a legit heart attack or the couple was actually detained maybe. But It was a mistake. They happen. Why get lawyers involved, when a the good old face to face apology was good enough?

America's new motto : Just sue them.

Ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Probably because if you don't harass back with a lawyer, nothing ever gets done to redress the problem - as evidenced here by 50 raids over the course of 8 years. They sent a nice letter several years back, and yet the problem continued...
 
bicycle_wreck said:
Hmm. Read the article?

If I kicked you in the dick once, and apologized, maybe we could work it out without much additional fuss. If I kicked you in the dick 50 times since 2002, you might get frustrated with my shenanigans.
Click to expand...

HAHAHHA.. Thank you for a good LOL. I agree totally.

Maybe the old couple are really running a Meth lab in the basement. If not then more serious measures should be taken to deal with this harassment issue. Can you get a restraining order against a police department? I'm not sure how that would work. I do believe there is grounds for some kind of Harassment hearing though. if not for punitive damages then at least to have some kind of action taken to really fix this.

Shane
 
Hallis said:
HAHAHHA.. Thank you for a good LOL. I agree totally.

Maybe the old couple are really running a Meth lab in the basement. If not then more serious measures should be taken to deal with this harassment issue. Can you get a restraining order against a police department? I'm not sure how that would work. I do believe there is grounds for some kind of Harassment hearing though. if not for punitive damages then at least to have some kind of action taken to really fix this.

Shane
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You can always sue for an equitable remedy, rather than a legal remedy (money). If you asked for the judge to hold that the police should fix the database that allows this address mix-up to continue to occur, that would simply be the judgement. The police would not have to pay any money, etc. The rub is that if the police did not resolve the problem after the judge decision, they would be in contempt of the judges order. In effect, it operates in a similar manner - the police can raid the house, but if it's another mistake, they get to face a pissed-off judge.
 
Computer error or not, wouldn't the cops themselves have gotten the hint after a while?
 
WinkyDaRabidElf said:
There needs to be a "zero tolerance" policy for wrong address raids.
The city's lucky no one got shot.
0_o
Click to expand...

What does that even mean? Zero Tolerance rules are pretty fucking horrible for just about any reason they are implemented but how would you even implement it here? Fire the cops who did the raids? Create a zero tolerance rule that says...'any programmer who mistakenly transposes numbers or has a typo or does anything else that results in an incorrect address being added into the system during a database test will be fired'.....Seems pretty silly doesn't it?

I will of course agree that the situation should have been handled much sooner however, like sometime in 2002 would have been peachy.

Zero Tolerance is such a bullshit policy for anything and it's sad that it has become a buzzword.
 
swiftB3 said:
My favorite analogy this week. :D

I can't believe there are enough different cops running into this that at least sometime one would go... "Oh crap, guys, I remember this house. It's a couple of old people, not a gang-banger hangout."
I suppose you can't be expected to remember over a period of years, but wow. Maybe if the the couple put out a sign on their lawn explaining it. Then at least maybe the raiders would think about knocking first, lol.
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That is a good point 50 - 75 raids in 8 years. you would think that somebody would realize they had been there before. even if it is not always the same district. one would think that they have at least a few cops that had been there a few times over that many raids over the years.
 
oh, and i forgot to add that they actually did knock every time on the bright side. they never did break down the door and rush the house, it was always just a group of cops pounding on the door for them to open up.
 
Hallis said:
Maybe the old couple are really running a Meth lab in the basement...
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If not before, then now they pretty much can with impunity. It doesn't sound like the 'fix' is anything more than a popup to ignore this address.

Someone's got to come up with better test data for these guys. I don't think the army does live fire exercises in city parks.
 
GotNoRice said:
Computer error or not, wouldn't the cops themselves have gotten the hint after a while?
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8 years is quite a long time. I wouldn't be surprised if every officers that participated in the raid only raided that house once or twice. The second offenders wouldn't remember the exact address, but would probably think "why does that house look familiar?" when approaching it.

But yeah 50 times is ridiculous. They don't have to sue, but at least get someone important enough to tell the police to back off - a lawyer or a city official perhaps.
 
tjwenger said:
Really? Why does everyone fall back on this? I mean if the guy had a legit heart attack or the couple was actually detained maybe. But It was a mistake.
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Actually, it was more like FIFTY mistakes. Fifty of the exact same mistakes, too.

Let me ask you something; Let's say you own a business, and you hire a new employee. On his first day at work, he flushes something important down the toilet. Do you fire him? Maybe not. How about after he's done it the 50th time?

They happen. Why get lawyers involved, when a the good old face to face apology was good enough?
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Sorry, but a face-to-face apology wouldn't be enough for me after fifty times. Hell, after FIVE times it wouldn't be enough for me. Once? Ok, fine, people fuck up. Twice? Someone should get chewed out in the back room over this for sure, but whatever, mistakes happen. FIFTY times? Someone ought to lose their job, whether it's the person responsible for the glitch, or the person responsible for overseeing the system to ensure such glitches don't happen, or the officer in charge of the units that got dispatched who should have realized something was wrong around time 10 or 11.
 
I think after the 10th time i would start setting up booby-traps, like in home alone
 
If I was a NYC resident, think of the cost of a raid * 50. Pissed would be an understatement. Gotta love it being blamed on the computer system instead of a robust policy as well. Companies have to do all this extra garbage for "SOX Compliance" and NYPD doesn't have a check in place before pissing $ away on a raid? Give me a break.
 
Hopefully the city will compensate them... preferably non-monetary. I'm not one for handouts, but FIFTY TIMES they raided, even after the family wrote letters out of desperation... they deserve a little more than an apology. The Chief of Police needs to get creative.
 
Since everyone is repeating the 50, I would like to point out that while the title does say 50 the article actually states it was atleast 50 - 75 and might have been more than that. 50 is low balling the number.
 
IRSmurf said:
Hopefully the city will compensate them... preferably non-monetary. I'm not one for handouts, but FIFTY TIMES they raided, even after the family wrote letters out of desperation... they deserve a little more than an apology. The Chief of Police needs to get creative.
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He did get creative.

'Kelly brought a cheesecake (and some humble pie) because of the repeat NYPD visits to the Martin's Marine Park home -- at least 50 -- over the years.'

Cheesechake is creative, although Krispy Kreme would have been better.
 
According to wikipedia, "the grand total of police precincts in New York City is 76." This suggests that every one of the raids was done by a different precinct.

I would guess that most or all of the raids were low-key affairs where they just knock on the door, because a team from, say, the Bronx, are going to wonder why they're performing a raid 25 miles away south of Brooklyn. That, and the Marine Park area is a working-class Irish neighborhood with property values going way up. Not exactly the slums.
 
Ualdayan said:
Yeah, and when they actually have an emergency and call 911 I wonder if the check in the system will block the address, or simply delay the police arriving.
Click to expand...

That was my thought when I read that line too. Hope their final fix is well thought out and not just "good enough for government work".
 
I agree with everyone that punishment needs to doled out here. But I think everyone missed my point with that comment. Everyone just wants to Sue everybody for everything these days. Sue the city of New York, do what the hell you want, it just comes out of taxpayer money anyway. Its just horrible practice for retribution.

Again, I fully agree NYPD is in the wrong here. And something should've been done about it. But Suing anybody would have accomplished nothing in this case, While they dug for reasons and lawyers got paid, chances are, they raid would have still occurred due to the computer glitch, that they thought they had fixed anyway. 50 times over 8 years? They were old people, they were probably glad to have the company!
 
tjwenger said:
I agree with everyone that punishment needs to doled out here. But I think everyone missed my point with that comment. Everyone just wants to Sue everybody for everything these days. Sue the city of New York, do what the hell you want, it just comes out of taxpayer money anyway. Its just horrible practice for retribution.

Again, I fully agree NYPD is in the wrong here. And something should've been done about it. But Suing anybody would have accomplished nothing in this case, While they dug for reasons and lawyers got paid, chances are, they raid would have still occurred due to the computer glitch, that they thought they had fixed anyway. 50 times over 8 years? They were old people, they were probably glad to have the company!
Click to expand...

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I'll start with the dick-kicking on Monday.
 
Seriously.

Now that the house has additional monitoring against this sort of thing...

<Cop 1> 5220 Downthe Way?

<Cop 2> Waitasec. That's that house with that old couple.

<Captain> Whoops. Let's not raid them!

<Drug Dealers> FTW!
 
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