Funny Tech Support Call

jwalk6 said:
Leo Laporte is great!

He's been doing this kind of thing for over 20 years. I used to watch him on TechTV. Now he's started up his own webcasting service called twit.tv. What you were watching was a clip from Twit live which lets you peek at Leo and friends as they record their podcasts for twit.tv.

It was actually a good example of a tech support call though. There are a lot of clueless people out there but they're not all evil bastards. The lady genuinely didn't know any better.

:cool:
Click to expand...

Shens - she knew she wasn't paying for service, hence, a wireless thief.
 
Elios said:
also WEP and WPA1 are totaly broken WEP can be cracked in under 30 sec and WPA1 in a few hours at most

WPA2+AES is the only thing you should be using even better set up a RADIUS server :D
Click to expand...

Mac filtering is next to useless anyway, since you can spoof the mac that's not filtered. Then again the person doing the hacking needs at least elementary understanding or is passively good at researching on google :p

WEP is easily broken as is much publicized already. I can't say WPA1 is the same, as it's supposedly only defeated in reasonable time(< a few days) when used with short passphrase, and only with large computing power(e.g. clusters). Also the demo by the scientests was with WPA with TKIP, not AES, which WPA2 also uses and has thus far been proven safe(IIRC).

Yes radius server is nice, but then again you'd need a (wired) pc/server for that purpose, which unless you've already got a pc doing server duty, kind of make it unfeasible to run 24/7 just for AAA.

Bah I hate reading these articles, remind me of work.
 
Impulse said:
I think he either scared the heck out of her (in a good way) or half of it flew over her head and she wasn't even listening halfway into his discussion... :p He laid it all out pretty well for a neophyte to understand tho.
Click to expand...

She wasn't even there halfway into his explanation... Wasn't a discussion at all...
 
Blazestorm said:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/07/tech/main707361.shtml

http://www.pcworld.com/article/136326/london_man_arrested_for_stealing_wifi.html

etc.
Click to expand...

1st link said:
arrest on charges of unauthorized access to a computer network, a third-degree felony.
Click to expand...
Not wire fraud

2nd link said:
Police officers in London
Click to expand...
British law doesn't apply in the USA. At least it hasn't for quite a while

On topic: quite amusing call, though I thinks he is fear mongering a bit too much.
 
pgaster said:
You need to read this article from 2005:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=43
The six dumbest ways to secure a wireless LAN

I will give you part:

"SSID hiding: There is no such thing as "SSID hiding". You're only hiding SSID beaconing on the Access Point. There are 4 other mechanisms that also broadcast the SSID over the 2.4 or 5 GHz spectrum. The 4 mechanisms are; probe requests, probe responses, association requests, and re-association requests. Essentially, youre talking about hiding 1 of 5 SSID broadcast mechanisms. Nothing is hidden and all youve achieved is cause problems for Wi-Fi roaming when a client jumps from AP to AP. Hidden SSIDs also makes wireless LANs less user friendly. You dont need to take my word for it. Just ask Robert Moskowitz who is the Senior Technical Director of ICSA Labs in his white paper Debunking the myth of SSID hiding."

Oh, and WEP can be cracked in about 2 minutes so I wouldn't use that anymore.
Click to expand...

That is fine but regardless what you do, there is no security that is 100% effective. Those listed on that site will deter your neighbors and others who are looking for an easy way to use your network.
 
TheCommander said:
That is fine but regardless what you do, there is no security that is 100% effective. Those listed on that site will deter your neighbors and others who are looking for an easy way to use your network.
Click to expand...

We need a facepalm emoticon.
 
Impulse said:
I used to get CrankyGeeks or w/e Dvorak's show was called on my TiVo (downloaded directly every week), but TiVo borked all their online services for out-of-state users (and Puerto Rico falls in that grey area apparently) so I stopped getting it... I need to subscribe online and start downloading it to my iPod or something.
Click to expand...

CHrist i havent had a Tivo for 4 years now since i dumped directv upon moving. But i have found something interesting.. I cancelled my cable tv about a year ago, and just kept my cable internet. So obviously they took back my cable box and remote, but they dont seem able to block regular cable tv from working. I wanted to get cable for football last season, so im looking at prices and basically coming to the conclusion, no way in hell am i paying like $60 a month just to watch football on top of my internet fee of $45, so for shits and giggles i plugged the cable into the back of the TV from my cable modem, and voila, i have regular cable channels, from like 2-79... For like 5 months i basically had TV and never watched it...not that there is ever anything on TV thats worth wasting my time over besides football...lol.. but still.. its interesting to find out whether anyone else in the community has noticed this little tidbit.
 
I just loved listening to her excuses on why stealing is OK. I know this type, if she found out her neighboor had hooked his electricity or phone to her box she would be on the phone to the cops faster than your head could spin. Such a Hypocrite.

And please, if $15 a month is too expensive you shouldnt own a computer. Its not that internet access is so expensive its that certain people are too CHEAP! I cannot believe she would actually fork over money for a wireless extender but refuses to pay for a cheap internet connection. What a kind, considerate neighboor, boy I am glad she doesnt leave near me.

And BTW the best way to avoid moochers and hackers is to disable to SSID Broadcast (and also use encryption). Bandwidth thieves like this cannot pick up your network if you are not broadcasting its name all over the neighboorhood.
 
TheCommander said:
Why don't you elaborate instead of being an ass.
Click to expand...

are you 100% positive you are the only geek in the block who knows computers? Why are you ignoring that all anyone has to do is do a search and they have all they need? Do you really think that someone with this knowledge isn't going to take the 30 seconds to do it?

uclajd said:
Ha, Leo sniffed her out immediately! That guy should be on CSI, lol.
Click to expand...

He's just been doing it long enough to know it's the first thing you ask. I'm sure he also gets tons of people who think that wireless is just like cellphone wireless or is tax payer paid. It's just as common as asking if you restarted when you first received a general error.
 
good to see Leo Laporte still going strong...the guy is a techiw for life...too bad his shows keep getting cancelled...sucked when TechTV became G4...G4TV sucks...there's barely any tech or gaming shows on that channel...all they show is reruns of Cops and other crap shows
 
DeathFromBelow said:
Not really. Even if internet access is included in her rent she was still stealing another person's bandwidth, possibly slowing down their connection.
Click to expand...

I dunno I'm kind of mixed on this. I know laws have been written that classify it as illegal etc. But this isn't an "unlocked door" argument, this is some other person broadcasting EM radiation into your home (I'm not saying that its harmful either), you need to secure your broadcast or welcome others to use it. I equate this to satellite transmissions back in the day, before all the encrypted signals, basically you had the big ass dish, and you only needed to know where to point it to get TV, I wouldn't classify that as stealing either. Now if you hack the encryption on your DTV card or what not, then yeah I absolutely call that stealing.

It would be like if you were standing at your window (no telescope, no binoculars) and your neighbor decides to strip in front of the window in plain view. Are you really a peeping tom because you don't turn away? Bah. You didn't go through any extraordinary lengths to get a peek, then you're not being a peeper.
 
TheCommander said:
Why don't you elaborate instead of being an ass.
Click to expand...

Me? An ass? Sigh...OK, I will play your game...

1. An article from 2005 lists 6 things that people think help with security, but the author says are "dumb". Each item is discussed in detail.

2. Fast forward 5 years. Let me repeat that again, 5 years.
You defend these 6 "dumb" things, saying they will keep your neighbors of your network.

Really? Who are your neighbors? How technical are they?
Look, if it was dumb 5 years ago, it is still dumb. Time doesn't fix these.
And note, the author called all of these dumb, I did not make this up.
 
Ain't that the truth...

Derangel said:
I always disable SSID broadcasting and use WPA or WEP when I set up wireless for someone. And damn it someone needs to hire Leo, Patrick Norton, Kevin Rose, and give them their own TV show again.
Click to expand...
 
SS_Wehrwolf said:
CHrist i havent had a Tivo for 4 years now since i dumped directv upon moving. But i have found something interesting.. I cancelled my cable tv about a year ago, and just kept my cable internet. So obviously they took back my cable box and remote, but they dont seem able to block regular cable tv from working. I wanted to get cable for football last season, so im looking at prices and basically coming to the conclusion, no way in hell am i paying like $60 a month just to watch football on top of my internet fee of $45, so for shits and giggles i plugged the cable into the back of the TV from my cable modem, and voila, i have regular cable channels, from like 2-79... For like 5 months i basically had TV and never watched it...not that there is ever anything on TV thats worth wasting my time over besides football...lol.. but still.. its interesting to find out whether anyone else in the community has noticed this little tidbit.
Click to expand...

I had the same experience for 2 years with Cox cable until they did upgrades in my neighborhood. My cable modem's been hooked up to them for about 3 years now. They put a choke on the line coming into my house that killed the TV channels.
 
Securing a wireless access point is the owners responsibility.

The legality for using an unprotected network is a bit grey at best.

If I took 100 of my hard earned dollars, left it on the street and someone took it with my back turned, would that be stealing?
 
hardware_failure said:
Securing a wireless access point is the owners responsibility.

The legality for using an unprotected network is a bit grey at best.

If I took 100 of my hard earned dollars, left it on the street and someone took it with my back turned, would that be stealing?
Click to expand...

Not even on the street. An unsecured AP is like putting your money directly in someone else's wallet.
 
That is hilarious. :D I remember that Leo dude from a now defunct TV channel called "Tech TV" in the early 2000s. Good to see he's still doing that kind of thing. :cool:
 
hardware_failure said:
Securing a wireless access point is the owners responsibility.

The legality for using an unprotected network is a bit grey at best.

If I took 100 of my hard earned dollars, left it on the street and someone took it with my back turned, would that be stealing?
Click to expand...

If you take someone's car or bicycle it's stealing even if it's unlocked. (I saw it on Cops, the cops use it as bait)

While you should lock your car, door, wifi etc. it's never right for someone to take it just because you didn't. You can't walk into someone's home and say "well he didn't lock the door."
 
SS_Wehrwolf said:
CHrist i havent had a Tivo for 4 years now since i dumped directv upon moving. But i have found something interesting.. I cancelled my cable tv about a year ago, and just kept my cable internet. So obviously they took back my cable box and remote, but they dont seem able to block regular cable tv from working. I wanted to get cable for football last season, so im looking at prices and basically coming to the conclusion, no way in hell am i paying like $60 a month just to watch football on top of my internet fee of $45, so for shits and giggles i plugged the cable into the back of the TV from my cable modem, and voila, i have regular cable channels, from like 2-79... For like 5 months i basically had TV and never watched it...not that there is ever anything on TV thats worth wasting my time over besides football...lol.. but still.. its interesting to find out whether anyone else in the community has noticed this little tidbit.
Click to expand...

That's pretty normal, the cable company doesn't usually encrypt those channels at all. A lot of people have done the exact same thing over the years, there's ways they could stop you from doing it but it's either not worth their time/investment or just not a big worry... Though you're technically stealing cable tv service. ;)

I've had two TiVo's, the S2 died last March (drive died, eventually I repaired it tho, trying to find a use for it now) and I replaced it with an HD S3... It's still one of the nicer and more user friendly DVRs out there, and I always pay the lifetime fee for their service up-front because it's worth it in the long run. One of the nicer things about it is the ability to transfer any recording (even HD stuff) to my PC, where I can do w/e I want with it (transcode it for the iPod/laptop, edit it, etc). Few cable co DVRs let you do that and it's usually thru some sorta hack AFAIK.

Heck few cable/satelite DVRs give you any of the extra features TiVo does... Some of 'em are a lil' limited (compared to say, an HTPC), but it goes well beyond what a PS3 or an Xbox offers. There's like three or four different movie renting services for TiVo users for instance (Netflix, Amazon, etc).

P.S. A lot of you people advocating this "open door, ain't my fault" policy would get your ass shot in Texas. :p
 
dagas said:
If you take someone's car or bicycle it's stealing even if it's unlocked. (I saw it on Cops, the cops use it as bait)

While you should lock your car, door, wifi etc. it's never right for someone to take it just because you didn't. You can't walk into someone's home and say "well he didn't lock the door."
Click to expand...
That's a poor analogy. If you steal someone's property, like a bike or car, they can't use it for that period of time or later.

If you use someone's Internet, there might be degraded performance on their end, but it can be returned at 100% capacity.

I know that it's technically a crime in many jurisdictions for using someone else's Wi-Fi, but I don't think it should be considered "stealing" unless you are physically on their property to use it. If their Wi-Fi permeates your property and is not secured, then you should be allowed to use it.
 
beowulf7 said:
That's a poor analogy. If you steal someone's property, like a bike or car, they can't use it for that period of time or later.

If you use someone's Internet, there might be degraded performance on their end, but it can be returned at 100% capacity.

I know that it's technically a crime in many jurisdictions for using someone else's Wi-Fi, but I don't think it should be considered "stealing" unless you are physically on their property to use it. If their Wi-Fi permeates your property and is not secured, then you should be allowed to use it.
Click to expand...

theft of service
if i hook up cable or power with out paying its still stealing
 
beowulf7 said:
That's a poor analogy. If you steal someone's property, like a bike or car, they can't use it for that period of time or later. If you use someone's Internet, there might be degraded performance on their end, but it can be returned at 100% capacity.

I know that it's technically a crime in many jurisdictions for using someone else's Wi-Fi, but I don't think it should be considered "stealing" unless you are physically on their property to use it. If their Wi-Fi permeates your property and is not secured, then you should be allowed to use it.
Click to expand...

No it's not, your argument falls apart in a dozen ways if you try looking at it from the point of view of anyone other than the person stealing the service... What if his ISP has a bandwith cap and because you jumped on his network and downloaded 20 movies one weekend he went right over the cap and the ISP charges him $50 the following month? To me, you should be liable for that money for putting him over the cap.
 
Impulse said:
You're entitled to your opinion, unfortunately the law disagrees with you on most counts (except for being liable for what someone does with your unsecured connection). Feel free to write to your appointed representative if you feel that strongly about any of it. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

You don't GET IT.

I am NOT obligated to do ANYTHING. What a ridiculous comment that I must do something if I disagree.

Face the facts, internet access everywhere is our destiny. I am simply ahead of your time. If law disagrees, as I already stated, I believe in civil disobedience. That is not in any way some obligation to give a damn what you think I should do. Duh?
 
Its a personal choice in the end. If i need to get on the internet with no internet, i find an access point. There are 7 wifi connections with range of my wireless card on my laptop, 4 are encrypted. That leaves me 3 choices.

(I only know this because my comp died 2 weeks ago and is in for repairs, and my old desktop is a Piece of Shit AMD overheating useless hunk of crap, so i just hooked my laptop up last week and forgot to turn off wifi before i connected my cable modem cable)

Now, i could easily have just piggy backed onto one of them if i so chose. No need to, i got cable. But it does leave me options. Not pro or con here... i honestly dont care either way. When you NEED to get online, you do what you gotta do. Hell, ASK a neighbor, its not hard to find the signal location. Ive told neighbors i got talking computers with about their wifi being open. One guy said thanks, im gonna go setup a password...if you need to get online.. just come on over i will let ya use my computer or give you the password. Simplistic, and makes ya feel better if you have a guilty conscience.
 
J.C. said:
You don't GET IT. I am NOT obligated to do ANYTHING. What a ridiculous comment that I must do something if I disagree.

Face the facts, internet access everywhere is our destiny. I am simply ahead of your time. If law disagrees, as I already stated, I believe in civil disobedience. That is not in any way some obligation to give a damn what you think I should do. Duh?
Click to expand...

Whatever you need to tell yourself to sleep sound at night bro. Where I live we ARE obligated to follow the law tho, I sure hope I don't live anywhere near ya. Where did I say anything about your obligations tho? I was just stating facts, as mandated by law, whereas most of what you're advocating is simply an opinion... And you know what they say about those. :rolleyes:

Internet access everywhere is indeed the future, but I think we're a long way from free worldwide (or nation-wide) web access, and freeloaders are certainly not gonna help us get there either way. /shrug I don't see anything wrong w/hitting a free access point in a pinch if it's a temporary thing, even if it's against the law... I do believe in the future we'll have mechanisms to facilitate that and eventually the law will follow suit.

I do think it's morally and legally absurd to leech long-term access to someone else's connection when you're simply not entitled to it in any way tho. As the above poster said, have you ever tried asking nicely for access even? The thought would probably not even cross the mind of half the people in this thread...
 
Elios said:
theft of service
if i hook up cable or power with out paying its still stealing
Click to expand...
If I move into a home or apt. and hook up my TV via coax cable to the wall and there's TV service, that's not theft. That's called laziness or incompetence by the cable provider to not turn it off. Now if I go outside and hack their box to connect a cable, then that would be theft of service.

Impulse said:
No it's not, your argument falls apart in a dozen ways if you try looking at it from the point of view of anyone other than the person stealing the service... What if his ISP has a bandwith cap and because you jumped on his network and downloaded 20 movies one weekend he went right over the cap and the ISP charges him $50 the following month? To me, you should be liable for that money for putting him over the cap.
Click to expand...
You said my argument falls a dozen ways but you only named one. But even in that case, if a neighbor's Wi-Fi invades my property (my home), then it's his fault for not securing it. If I actively hack that Wi-Fi to use it or go in his backyard to surf, then that'd be "stealing".
 
beowulf7 said:
If I move into a home or apt. and hook up my TV via coax cable to the wall and there's TV service, that's not theft. That's called laziness or incompetence by the cable provider to not turn it off. Now if I go outside and hack their box to connect a cable, then that would be theft of service.


You said my argument falls a dozen ways but you only named one. But even in that case, if a neighbor's Wi-Fi invades my property (my home), then it's his fault for not securing it. If I actively hack that Wi-Fi to use it or go in his backyard to surf, then that'd be "stealing".
Click to expand...

not that is cable theft and it IS a crime
ask your cable co. or local PD
 
the difference is that yes it is technically a 'crime' but it is almost never enforced...same thing with jaywalking and dozens of other 'crimes'...
 
Just because you're not getting caught or you're not being actively persecuted doesn't make it any less of a crime. /shrug Obviously depending on the use you give to your neighbor's unsecured WiFi it may be more or less moral, but if he gets hit with a bandwith overage charge and he figures out it was you using it he could definitely get you in trouble... His WiFi wasn't invading your property any more than TV stations are, you don't own the airwaves bubba. :rolleyes:
 
Seriously, where did this notion of WiFi signals "invading property" begin? We're bombarded by millions of different airborne transmissions on a constant basis, are they ALL invading your property too?
 
Elios said:
not that is cable theft and it IS a crime
ask your cable co. or local PD
Click to expand...
OK, let's say I agree to it. How can it be proven? The cable provider would have to get a warrant to enter the home, I suppose, if he has probable cause. A lawyer would have to explain.

Impulse said:
Seriously, where did this notion of WiFi signals "invading property" begin? We're bombarded by millions of different airborne transmissions on a constant basis, are they ALL invading your property too?
Click to expand...
And you have the right to use those property-invading airwaves, such as tuning into whatever radio or TV station you want.
 
beowulf7 said:
\And you have the right to use those property-invading airwaves, such as tuning into whatever radio or TV station you want.
Click to expand...

No, you have the right to use some of the frequencies and tune into some of the stations, but you don't have a right to use (or abuse) any frequency at all, nor someone else's broadcasts.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top