X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro Series VS ATI 5770

okashira

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I'm looking to "upgrade" HT setup with HTPC with proper surround audio, preferably with 7.1 channel HDMI audio.

Currently running a GTX 280 + X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro Series for my HTPC (also used for gaming.)

I have a 5.1 system with HDMI and currently I only get 2 channels as I use DVI-->HDMI.

I've been out of the loop when it comes to computer audio for some time. I would like to get 8 channel HDMI audio for movies, etc without using DTS or DD. Also surround sound for games without running a crap load of analog cables.

What will I lose by going from a X-Fi XtremeGamer Fatal1ty Pro Series + GTX 280 to an ATI 5770 graphics card, audio wise? Gain? I like the idea of getting digital 7.1 / 5.1 audio for my movies (blu - ray / blu- ray rips) without resorting to encoding DTS or DD over SPDIF. Also surround sound for games. (of course using DD or DTS isn't even an option for games.)

I will probably go Fermi after the first round of "hot deals." How should I factor this into my decision? Will the Fermi have the same class audio as the 5770?

Is there a performance loss going from the X-Fi to the ATI? I'm assuming the ATI is a "software" audio solution, while the X-FI is "hardware.' What effect can I expect as far as performance? I know the X-Fi basically upconverts *everything* to 96/24.

Will games make proper use of 6 / 8 channel surround audio on the HDMI digital out (LPCM)?

I mean, this $100 Soundblaser card with ~50 million transister X-Fi chip has to be doing somthing useful, while the 5770 won't be doing any audio processing . . .


I have a decent sound system: Onkyo 606; Polk Monitor 60's, Polk Monitor CS2 Center, some 8" Boston Acoustics subwoofer.
 
Maybe I should have asked this one: Can the Soundblaster output over the 5770's HDMI 7.1 ch audio? That way I can get proper surround sound using HDMI audio but the soundblaster's still doing the processing. Will I still be able to bitstream DTS-HD / TrueHD this way?
 
Yes, I knew about the bitstreaming, the question is - can it do it with WMP, WMC, ffdshow, PowerDVD? Or will it require a "special" version of PowerDVD or somthing.

Thing is, I don't care much for bitstreaming anymore as I use AAC in my BD rips; sounds just as good, 1/10th the space.

I want the card to be able to output 7.1 ch LPCM audio from AAC (in .mkv) in 96khz, 48khz and 32-bit floating point or whatever I encoded it.

Can it bitstream a DTS-HD track in a .mkv?
 
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Damn, a lot of questions.
So far the only players I know do MKV are TMT3, MPC, and VLC. So, the deal is that MPC and VLC I think can play True-HD but not DTS-HD Master. Also, I think they can only play when the audio is in a *.ts file, and it will decode it, not bit-stream it. That's what it was a least, a few months back when I was in the whole audio deal. About TMT3, it's a great player, but it sucks with MKV files. It plays a lot of them, but also a lot of them fail. I'm not sure what are the requirements for it to work. And no, TMT3 won't bit-stream True-HD nor DTS-HD Master unless the audio comes directly from a disk, not a rip, even if it's *.ts.

Now, as far as audio quality, it really depends on what you want to hear. I have an X-Fi XtremeMusic (the model without digital out) and a Onkyo 606 just like you. For music, I like to send the audio digitally to the receiver using my onboard audio, and then let the receiver apply Audyssey, and plays it as All Channel Stereo (Prologic IIx Music works great too, sometimes). However, if you play games that take advantage of EAX 5.0 HD, then you might want to stick with the X-Fi for that. I used at some point the ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe, which allows 7.1 LPCM, but it's just not the same. Sure, Audyssey makes everything sound more clear and dynamic, but you loose that 3D feel that the X-FI gives. It's hard to explain.
So yeah, I use the onboard sound to send digital audio to the receiver when I'm listening to music, or watching movies with DD and DTS audio. And then use the X-Fi for gaming.

However, not all hope is lost. The X-FI you have has Dolby Digital Live and DTS Connect, and a optical connection. You can simply make the soundcard re-encode games using those technologies, and then tun-it Off when you want to watch a movie or listen to music. As far as your movies goes, you'll have no choice but to stick with the X-Fi if you want multichannel audio, if you keep using AAC. I'm saying because you don't own the HD 5770 yet.
If I were you, I'd rip the movies again with DTS audio instead. It's so much compatible, and the sound quality is great. That way you can keep using that X-Fi, and have digital audio + Audyssey for movies and music, and have games with EAX. Hell, you don't even have to rip the entire movie, just the audio. There are tools out there that let you merge audio tracks in MKV files, without touching the video. I personally like DD and DTS better because some tracks are encoded as DD-EX or DTS-ES, which is 6.1 (X-Men Last Stand). With a regular receiver, or if you re-encode it to AAC, you will only get 5.1. The only way to get that 6.1 is to decode it using the proper decoder, and thanfully the Onkyo 606 supports both.

However, if you don't want to do that, and just want 7.1 LPCM then I think you might be happier getting a X-FI HomeTheater HD, instead of the HD 5770. Those support 7.1 LPCM for your AAC files, and also EAX 5.0 HD. I mean, that's the best of both worlds, but those cards cost around $250. Pretty expensive if you asked me, but that's better than getting a HD 5770. I mean, besides the reason I explain earlier, nVidia cards are more compatible with software in general. GPU acceleration is supported better in nVidia cards than ATI card, that's a biggie. Also, using an nVidia card you take advantage of Havox and PhysicX (physics engines for games), while with ATI you only get Havox.

Ok, hope that helps make your decision easier.
 
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Great, thanks for the reply.

A few things I'm still not clear on...


MKV - I play these in WMP or WMC. I expect that ffdshow can bitstream using the 5770...? I dont use VLC, MPC or TMT. I only use PowerDVD 7 If I have to (playing HD-DVD)

I bought the Dolby Digital Live and DTS connect feature to try it out (was a couple bucks)
They were both really bad. Lag was the biggest problem with DD, like display / input lag - only the audio always had like 70-100ms lag. It was really annoying. Also had problems with DTS connect crackling under Vista. Don't really like the idea of using a lossy codec to mux my game audio when options for HDMI 8 channel digital discrete audio is available.

Are you saying I wont be able to use multichannel audio with the 5770 and AAC? I can't use multichannel now because I'm using the X-Fi. It can't output 7.1 LPCM and I don't really want to hook up all those analog cables. I'm expecting the 5770 will be able to do peoper 7.1 LCPM from AAC source and i'll get my "HD" audio that way from my MKV rips.

As far as muxing audio / video in MKV... that's exactly what I do with my movies. I copy video directly and encode TrueHD and DTS-HD tracks to AAC and merge to MKV. If the blu-ray has a DD, DD+, E-AC3 or DTS primary track I will just mux that directly to the mkv without re-encode. Those I bitstream using ffdshow to my reciever. Well, I used to. Hasn't worked since I installed Win7, but i'm sure it can still work. I think it's actually a creative issue, there's so many damn options for "speakers" "modes" "output formats" it's obscene.

DD-EX or DTS-ES both I already just mux directly to MKV like you said and bitstream over SPDIF.

On EAX (5.0, HD, whatever) I thought this was a bunk format. I don't even bother to install creative's annoying alchemy software. Isn't the proper positional audio either game specific, OpenAL or somthing DirectX?

The only thing that makes the X-FI HomeTheater HD better then the 5770 is the EAX 5.0, right? or am I missing somthing else...


Let's summarize..


Shared Features:
+7.1 channel LPCM up to 192 khz 24 bit
+Bitstream regular DTS / DD

X-FI HT HD
+Proper EAX 5.0 for games (still debating if this is a good thing)
-bitstream HD formats only with special version of PDVD (ugh!)

5770
+bitstream HD formats with ffdshow
+proper 24p playback alongside bitstream of MKV's


Those I put in red I'm unsure of.
 
First of all, I don't know what extra codecs you are using, as I don't like to ever install those. They normally just bring problems. I just use programs that have the codecs built-in. I say this because by default WMP doesn't play MKV files (I use Win7 64-bit). And sorry, I'm not familiar with ffdshow.

About DD Live and DTS connect, I think that might be a problem of the soundcard itself. The ASUS HDAV1.3 Deluxe I was telling you about has both of those features, but it works flawlessly. No lag, delay, or anything. but I was using XP 32-bit Home back then.

Now, about the HD 5770, yes it will do 7.1 LPCM just fine. So yes, AAC will get turned into LPCM automatically with no problem. But have in mind, the moment you turn a lossless track into AAC, it stops being HD because you are compressing it. Weather you hear the difference or not, that's a entirely different deal. That's why I like DTS over AAC, because both are lossy, but DTS is way more compatible.
BTW, what motherboard are you using. Most motherboards have an Optical or Digital Coaxial connection. If it does, get the drivers for it, and bit-stream the DTS and DD tracks you say you have that way.

Also, EAX is not dead yet. Some games like Unreal Tournament 3 still use EAX heavily. I played it using both 7.1 LPCM digitally to my receiver (+ Audyssey) and 7.1 analog to my receiver in DIRECT mode. Digital sounded more clean and dynamic (thanks to Audyssey), but very 2D-ish, not very directional. That's because Asus only supports EAX 3.0. Analog was the complete opposite. Now, if you say you'll use the HD 5770, that doesn't even have EAX, so the audio is probably going to be less directional. However, I don't own one, so I can't say for sure.

Now, PowerDVD and bit-streaming HD audio. Yeah, that's the only software that new X-Fi card is compatible with for HD sound bit-streaming. However, you don't have to bit-stream it if you don't want to, you can use any software you want, and turn it into lossless LPCM. I'm sure it will be better than the AAC you are using. However, I'm not sure which software supports DTS-HD Master decoding, I only know that a few support True-HD.

Now, about 24p playback. I've read that you don't need a fancy soundcard for that, and all you need is to change the refresh rate to 24hz in Windows. I know Windows XP doesn't have that by default, however, Windows 7 does have 24hz as one of the options. According to the people that tested it, their Tv recognized it as 24p just fine. I mean, you might have to switch back and forth weather you want to watch a movie, or use the Pc normally, but that shouldn't be a problem. I'm not sure how the X-FI HT HD makes it any easier than already is. Also, programs like MPC-HC have a feature called V-Sync. So it automatically speeds or slows the video down just to stay in sync with the refresh rate you chose.
 
First of all, I don't know what extra codecs you are using, as I don't like to ever install those. They normally just bring problems. I just use programs that have the codecs built-in. I say this because by default WMP doesn't play MKV files (I use Win7 64-bit). And sorry, I'm not familiar with ffdshow.

I understand your POV with MKV's and codecs. Windows 7 actually has a lot of native support for playing video (H264, VC-1, Divx) So I prefer to use what's built in and run WMP and WMC. I also haven't found a player that works better then WMP and WMC.
The one thing w7 doesn't support is the MKV container, you have have to run a splitter like Haali's which works great. To fill in the gap for the remaining codecs that w7 doesn't play I used to use Shark007's codec pack. It's excellent for "filling the gap" as far as windows 7 codecs and doesn't install more then necessary. It relies on MS native codecs wherever possible.

About DD Live and DTS connect, I think that might be a problem of the soundcard itself. The ASUS HDAV1.3 Deluxe I was telling you about has both of those features, but it works flawlessly. No lag, delay, or anything. but I was using XP 32-bit Home back then.

I see. Maybe there was an issue going on. Thats in the past now and with the advent of HDMI there's no reason to use DD or DTS to add another lossy component. Heck I would rather run an assload of analog cables before that.

Now, about the HD 5770, yes it will do 7.1 LPCM just fine. So yes, AAC will get turned into LPCM automatically with no problem. But have in mind, the moment you turn a lossless track into AAC, it stops being HD because you are compressing it. Weather you hear the difference or not, that's a entirely different deal. That's why I like DTS over AAC, because both are lossy, but DTS is way more compatible.
BTW, what motherboard are you using. Most motherboards have an Optical or Digital Coaxial connection. If it does, get the drivers for it, and bit-stream the DTS and DD tracks you say you have that way.
Don't quite follow you here.HD is just a buzzword for this audio stuff. I use AAC because in my testing it's completely transparent relative to the lossless codecs, at 1/10th the size. That is, it sounds the same. AAC outperforms DTS by quite alot. as far as compatability... well, my PS3, iPOD and my computer can play AAC.... I can't ask for anything more. My receiver doesn't support AAC, but that's moot since HDMI can transport 8 channels of uncompressed 192 khz 24 bit audio :D

Also, EAX is not dead yet. Some games like Unreal Tournament 3 still use EAX heavily. I played it using both 7.1 LPCM digitally to my receiver (+ Audyssey) and 7.1 analog to my receiver in DIRECT mode. Digital sounded more clean and dynamic (thanks to Audyssey), but very 2D-ish, not very directional. That's because Asus only supports EAX 3.0. Analog was the complete opposite. Now, if you say you'll use the HD 5770, that doesn't even have EAX, so the audio is probably going to be less directional. However, I don't own one, so I can't say for sure.

What exactly do you mean by directional? Will the games not output proper surround sound without EAX support? ie, if someone shoots you from behind and to the left, the sound comes from the appropriate speakers...? I want to believe you.... well no I don't because I do not like Creative and their jacked up drivers. Can anyone else chime in on EAX, surround sound and modern gaming?

Now, PowerDVD and bit-streaming HD audio. Yeah, that's the only software that new X-Fi card is compatible with for HD sound bit-streaming. However, you don't have to bit-stream it if you don't want to, you can use any software you want, and turn it into lossless LPCM. I'm sure it will be better than the AAC you are using. However, I'm not sure which software supports DTS-HD Master decoding, I only know that a few support True-HD.

I did a little more poking around, and ffdshow now supports bitstreaming of both DTS-HD MA and TrueHD on the 5770 and the X-Fi HT HD. I think you can also use it to decode DTS-HD if you have Arcsoft's codec. And in my experience the AAC sounds just as good as the HD track I encode it from, that's why I use it...

Now, about 24p playback. I've read that you don't need a fancy soundcard for that, and all you need is to change the refresh rate to 24hz in Windows. I know Windows XP doesn't have that by default, however, Windows 7 does have 24hz as one of the options. According to the people that tested it, their Tv recognized it as 24p just fine. I mean, you might have to switch back and forth weather you want to watch a movie, or use the Pc normally, but that shouldn't be a problem. I'm not sure how the X-FI HT HD makes it any easier than already is. Also, programs like MPC-HC have a feature called V-Sync. So it automatically speeds or slows the video down just to stay in sync with the refresh rate you chose.
Yeah, I think it's mostly in the video. So it certainly wouldn't be a negative against the X-Fi



Also ffdshow.... well... that's a program anyone with an HTPC or anyone into playing movies on the PC should have.
 
Don't quite follow you here.HD is just a buzzword for this audio stuff. I use AAC because in my testing it's completely transparent relative to the lossless codecs, at 1/10th the size. That is, it sounds the same. AAC outperforms DTS by quite alot. as far as compatability... well, my PS3, iPOD and my computer can play AAC.... I can't ask for anything more. My receiver doesn't support AAC, but that's moot since HDMI can transport 8 channels of uncompressed 192 khz 24 bit audio :D
Sure, the PS3 and iPod support AAC, but that's not what we're talking about here, we're talking about your PC.
Now, if you say you can't tell the difference between DTS-HD MASTER and AAC, then I believe you. I can't tell the difference between TrueHD and DD(640kbps version). I can only tell the difference in music, like between MP3 (320kpbs) and FLAC. However, it's not that there is no difference in the audio, is just that there equipment is not high-end enough to show the difference. At least that's my believe.
I was just saying, the moment you turn DTS-HD MASTER into AAC, it stops being lossless, wheather you hear the difference or not, or weather you turn it back into lossless (LPCM).

What exactly do you mean by directional? Will the games not output proper surround sound without EAX support? ie, if someone shoots you from behind and to the left, the sound comes from the appropriate speakers...? I want to believe you.... well no I don't because I do not like Creative and their jacked up drivers. Can anyone else chime in on EAX, surround sound and modern gaming?
Ok, directional was a poor choice of word. It's directional, it just doesn't feel alive. It's like if you watch a concert in blu-ray, and if you watch a concert live. The blu-ray might be in 7.1, but it just doesn't compare to the real deal. I mean, it's good, it just not as good as it could be.
Why don't you download a few demos of games like Battlefield 2142, where you can manually turn EAX On/Off, or F.E.A.R. (the original has the option, not sure about Project Origins). Play the game with and without it. Also, try to get the demo for Unreal Tournament 3. I already uninstalled the game, so I don't know if it has a option to turn it On/Off. If not, when using EAX, use Game so you get EAX 5.0, and when not, use Entertainment Mode, so you limit it to EAX 3.0. Play for a like an hour, and tell me if you can tell a difference.
If you can't, then you're golden. Just get the HD 5770, and GG. If not, then the X-FI HT HD might sound more appealing. I just don't quite understand what you are going to do with the 280 GTX you already have. I mean, that's a beastly video card. I have the 285 GTX myself, and without overclocking it plays all my games super smooth (except Crysis).

I did a little more poking around, and ffdshow now supports bitstreaming of both DTS-HD MA and TrueHD on the 5770 and the X-Fi HT HD. I think you can also use it to decode DTS-HD if you have Arcsoft's codec. And in my experience the AAC sounds just as good as the HD track I encode it from, that's why I use it...
Oh, that's cool then. Like I said, back when I was in the whole audio world, there was not DTS-HD MASTER (i love typing that, lol) decoder, at least not in open-source programs, only for TrueHD, and only if it was in a *.ts container.

Also ffdshow.... well... that's a program anyone with an HTPC or anyone into playing movies on the PC should have.
So, can you guide on how to get it to test it out?
Do you have to install extra codecs, or does it come with its own (separate codecs is a turn off for me)?
Does it support GPU acceleration for nVidia cards without turning off Aero?
How about adjustable color space (16-235, 0-255)?
How about V-Sync?
How about adjustable Dynamic Range Compression (so I can turn it off)?

Well, that's just some of the biggie ones. Is just that I love MPC-HC so much, that is gonna take one hell of a program to make me switch.
 
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Ok, directional was a poor choice of word. It's directional, it just doesn't feel alive. It's like if you watch a concert in blu-ray, and if you watch a concert live. The blu-ray might be in 7.1, but it just doesn't compare to the real deal. I mean, it's good, it just not as good as it could be.
Why don't you download a few demos of games like Battlefield 2142, where you can manually turn EAX On/Off, or F.E.A.R. (the original has the option, not sure about Project Origins). Play the game with and without it. Also, try to get the demo for Unreal Tournament 3. I already uninstalled the game, so I don't know if it has a option to turn it On/Off. If not, when using EAX, use Game so you get EAX 5.0, and when not, use Entertainment Mode, so you limit it to EAX 3.0. Play for a like an hour, and tell me if you can tell a difference.
If you can't, then you're golden. Just get the HD 5770, and GG. If not, then the X-FI HT HD might sound more appealing. I just don't quite understand what you are going to do with the 280 GTX you already have. I mean, that's a beastly video card. I have the 285 GTX myself, and without overclocking it plays all my games super smooth (except Crysis).


So, can you guide on how to get it to test it out?
Do you have to install extra codecs, or does it come with its own (separate codecs is a turn off for me)?
Does it support GPU acceleration for nVidia cards without turning off Aero?
How about adjustable color space (16-235, 0-255)?
How about V-Sync?
How about adjustable Dynamic Range Compression (so I can turn it off)?

Well, that's just some of the biggie ones. Is just that I love MPC-HC so much, that is gonna take one hell of a program to make me switch.

Thanks for your input. I think I'll just have to try my own comparison between the 5770 and the X-Fi since I've got an 5770 on the way now. I guess i'll have to drag out the mess of analog cables to do so. :rolleyes:

For the hell of it, i'll also make a couple movies with the DTS-HD MA track as well as AAC track (in .mkv) and switch between bitstream of DTS-HD MA and AAC to see if I can tell the differece then. That'll be the real test.

ffdshow is kind of like a master filter of sorts that can be used to choose what codecs play what and with what settings. It's not a player; I think it's intended to be used with WMP, but it may work with MPC-HC. ffdshow usually does come with its own codecs, and when you add more they just become additional options in ffdshow. ffdshow also contains a full suit of any kind of DSP you might want, including channel mixing, resample, conversion, bitstream, transcoding to allow for bitstream of other audio formats. Also many video filters. As far as the specific features you requested, I belive it can accomodate all of them including DXVA for GPU accelerated decoding.

Installing codecs and having the option to use more codec is a GOOD thing. That way you can be sure you are using the best quality codec possible for a particular format. Read http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=125966 under background information for examples on what I'm talking about. Also another example would be libavocdec not properly handling 24-bit FLAC files, but madFLAC does.

Honestly I don't how MPC-HC handles things, it may be just dandy, or perhaps it uses directshow filters just like ffdshow or somthing else.

I'll probably post up my own comparison of X-Fi vs 5770 audio when I have the time to do it.


edit: it's ffdshow tryouts which is the one to use
 
Well I got my 5770 today and played a little and ill give a couple quick impressions before I give a better more objective comparison later (unless it turns out noone cares... :D)

  • So far, the Upsampling and Downsampling on this card SUCKS. I have to set it to output 16 bit and 44.1 kHz to get decent sounding music. Even setting 192 kHz and 24 bit results in immediatly different sounding and worse audio. Not the case at all on the X-Fi whose resampling was always completely transparent. Maybe I can try ReClock....
  • Hoping the above is just some setting I'm missing...
  • Havent gotten any bitstreaming to work with any of my .MKV's from BD / HDDVD with DD+ or THD. Only thing I got so far was AC3 re-encoded by ffdshow to turn the light on. Becoming annoyed but I may be just doing something stupid.
  • For whatever reason, call it placebo, but it does sound damn good when I set it right, e.g. 44.1 kHz for music. Seems better then the X-Fi with similar settings, but, again, placebo. Also watched Akira with my 96/24 AAC encode of it's obscene 192kHz 5.1 24 bit DTS-HD MA track and it sounded awesome.
  • Audio mode always changing when starting and stopping playback resulting in the delay and relay clicks from my Onkyo. A little annoying but bearable.
  • No games yet.
 
I thought I'd give a general update on this.

Overall, I've been kind of kind of dissapointed in the 5770 for audio AND video.

  • I've gotten the HD audio bitstreaming working pretty good. My MKV's with TrueHD and DTS-HD muxed play back well. Sounds great when this is used. Note that I haven't actually tried bitstreaming these straight from a Blu-ray or HD-DVD. I have a feeling this wont work so well. :rolleyes:
  • Have issues with audio cracking on my non-bitstreaming MKV's. Playing in WMC or XBMC the audio will crackle on slightly louder parts of an audio track. It's pretty constant and horribly annoying and bad sounding. This happens on my MKV's with AAC muxed (5.1 or 7.1 AAC)
  • Video - calibration, white and black level issues. It doesn't match my Nvidia GTX 280 for white or black levels. Tried YcbCr, RGB, nothing looks as good as when I had my GTX 280 set to YcbCr. Of course, I did calibrate my display (LNT5271f) for the GTX 280, it's just the radeon doesnt output the same levels. Who's fault? Don't know - either way quite a dissapointment. Neither can produce quite the proper white and black levels (specificlly the REALLY bright whites that I can get from my PS3 playing blu rays with YcbCr. Playing BD's on the PS3 generally looks better. I may be able to fix this with calibration on my TV (Samsung LNT5271f), though. Just tired of messing with it. The TV, when you unlock service mode, has more color, levels, etc calibration modes then I even knew was possible.
  • Perhaps related, have issues with my black levels flashing changing randomly when watching movies. The black bars on top and bottom for example will flash from "pretty black" to "really dark grey" Annoying, unacceptable and dissapointing.
  • Performance - as expected. MW2 and BBC2 play well with no AA, 4x AF and max details at 1080p. Noticible slower then my 280. Overclocks pretty good.
  • Game audio - Nothing notable really. Sound hasnt struck me as "awesome" or particularly "bad." Nothing special. It's just there. I notice the echo and reverb effects in BFBC2 don't sound so good when in a room/bldg. Gotta do more testing against an X-Fi.

I am seriously considering going back to Nvidia for video (GTX 470 / 480) as well as an Auzen HometheatreHD HDMI card. Since this is also an HTPC I'll probably have to do some custom cooling for the Fermi. :(

Edit: so the Auzentech HomeTheatre HD is apparently $250. what a.... joke? I might have to rething that one. :(
 
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I'm very curious too about the gaming audio using HDMI LPCM 8 channel. currently I use a top of the line x-fi card for 7.1 analog audio for gaming. But now I have 480 SLI and only have room for a sound card in the top PCIe 1x slot on my motherboard. I guess that would make me a candidate for the Auzentech.
But it would be great to move away from the whole analog audio thing if the 8 channel HDMI LPCM sounds better. But I don't know how this will effect the whole positional audio thing and I don't want to lose that.
 
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