A new NEC professional IPS? PA series

@The NEC guys Will Hollingworth (Monitor_Guy) and/or Art Marshall

What is the NEC MultiProfiler software referred to in the manual?

What does it do? It sounds like it is required to use the ICC profile and printer emulation features? Anything else?

Will it be included by default, part of a SpectraView bundle, or sold separately? If sold separately, how much will it cost?
 
May I ask if you can answer with ease, will the SpectraView II software for Linux be maintained to operate the PA series?

ChickenLover said:
So what exactly is the difference between a p-IPS and a H-IPS? The Japanese site said p-IPS with a (H-IPS) next to it. I assume some sort of slightly modified H-IPS?
Click to expand...

I would also like to see this question answered with information about the nature of p-IPS. Only recently did a user contribute a great picture detailing the subpixel layout of his H-IPS HP LP2475w. Display technologies continue to remain an interest for myself, and I'm sure others on this website as well.

Thanks.
 
Cyberbeing said:
@The NEC guys Will Hollingworth (Monitor_Guy) and/or Art Marshall

What is the NEC MultiProfiler software referred to in the manual?

What does it do? It sounds like it is required to use the ICC profile and printer emulation features? Anything else?

Will it be included by default, part of a SpectraView bundle, or sold separately? If sold separately, how much will it cost?
Click to expand...

MultiProfiler will be available for free download from the NEC website in the next few weeks.

It adds a GUI interface to many of the monitor controls and color settings, as well as allowing you to create printer emulations using the display's internal 3D LUT and an ICC profile from the printer you want to emulate.

It will also allow you to switch between various color settings (e.g. full gamut, sRGB, AdobeRGB, custom etc.) and will handle assigning the correct ICC profile for the current settings if you are using color managed applications.
 
Monitor Guy said:
MultiProfiler will be available for free download from the NEC website in the next few weeks.

It adds a GUI interface to many of the monitor controls and color settings, as well as allowing you to create printer emulations using the display's internal 3D LUT and an ICC profile from the printer you want to emulate.

It will also allow you to switch between various color settings (e.g. full gamut, sRGB, AdobeRGB, custom etc.) and will handle assigning the correct ICC profile for the current settings if you are using color managed applications.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a replacement for Naviset.
 
For Will and Art.
Currently I'm working on a NEC SpectraView 2190 that served me really well over the past three years. I'm very interested in the new 27" PA monitor and I would like to know what will be your policy regarding the "SpectraView" editions here in Europe. In the USA it's possible to buy the SV software but here we've two different product lines with the SpectraView one set at a higher price. Will the new PA line of professional monitors change this or we will retain two distinct product lines in EU? And what would be the price here? At 1079 USD the new 24" PA seems reasonably priced: will it translate in 1080 Euros, here?

Thanks in advance.

Emanuele
 
Marc Dwonn said:
Yeah, right. :rolleyes:
Except for the fact that the two (2!) different 2490Wuxi2 units i've seen had nasty dark blotches in the lower half and dark vertical stripes across the screen. No use of such fancy features if the panel is defective from the start. NEC should get his act together and kick LG in the a§§ for supplying low quality panels.
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My 2490WUXi (v1) is perfect, and has no stuck or inoperative pixels. It's the first and only one I've ever seen first hand.

Your luck sucked, and mine was good (for once). *touch wood*

You're using the fact that you saw two sucky WUXi2s to argue against the point that the ColorComp FEATURE is a good thing? And that it's the sort of feature that differentiates pro-level displays from consumer-level displays? Sure, you're annoyed, and a $1k monitor should have top-notch quality, but...

Go look at the HP LP2475w thread and all the people with red/green shift. Issues with panels is hardly unique. All of the PANEL manufacturers need to get their act together.
 
Vanquish said:
For Will and Art.
Currently I'm working on a NEC SpectraView 2190 that served me really well over the past three years. I'm very interested in the new 27" PA monitor and I would like to know what will be your policy regarding the "SpectraView" editions here in Europe. In the USA it's possible to buy the SV software but here we've two different product lines with the SpectraView one set at a higher price. Will the new PA line of professional monitors change this or we will retain two distinct product lines in EU? And what would be the price here? At 1079 USD the new 24" PA seems reasonably priced: will it translate in 1080 Euros, here?

Thanks in advance.

Emanuele
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Hi Emanuele,

I'll see if I can get an answer from our European team.

UPDATED: from our European team:
We will maintain two distinct product lines as before. The SV 241 will be priced similarly to the current SV2490 and the MultiSync PA241W will be a bit higher than the current MultiSync LCD2490WUXi2 but street pricing is not fixed.

-- Art
 
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Two things you NEC types ought to post some more information on, if you can:

1) What is p-IPS? There's all of no info on the web about it.

2) What is a 3D LUT as opposed to old school LUTs? I believe I know what they are, but I don't want to post misinformation for people.
 
Marc Dwonn said:
P-IPS is probably the new marketing speak for E-IPS, hehehe...
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It could actually be a pro version. Before anyone gets excited, it is almost certainly still an LG IPS panel and in most respects still has LG issues (Uniformity/tinting issues) but I do note that it appears these are actually 10 bit panels(thus the different designation). AFAIK, my 2490 still just has an 8bit panel.

But seriously people read way to much into the designation in front of IPS. LGs IPS panels for the last couple of years have had the same issues with uniformity/tinting and off angle glow, regardless of the designation.
 
ArtMarshall said:
Hi Emanuele,

I'll see if I can get an answer from our European team.

UPDATED: from our European team:
We will maintain two distinct product lines as before. The SV 241 will be priced similarly to the current SV2490 and the MultiSync PA241W will be a bit higher than the current MultiSync LCD2490WUXi2 but street pricing is not fixed.

-- Art
Click to expand...

Art, thankyou very much for the prompt answer.

Best,

Emanuele
 
Looking at this NEC slide (also seen on the Japanese spec page), p-IPS is a type of H-IPS. As Snowdog speculated, it is probably the pro or premium version of e-IPS.
008pp.jpg


It also appears that the Japanese version gets a 5 year warranty while those of us across the ocean only get a 4 year warranty, and it lists February 22nd as the release date (for Japan).
 
Cyberbeing said:
Looking at this NEC slide (also seen on the
Japan).
Click to expand...

It appears the only difference in the specs is in the color. Real 10bit panel and 10 bit input possible on the DisplayPort. If you could actually find software/drivers that supports real 10 bit path.
 
Snowdog said:
It appears the only difference in the specs is in the color. Real 10bit panel and 10 bit input possible on the DisplayPort. If you could actually find software/drivers that supports real 10 bit path.
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Not just the drivers; you would need a graphics card that has H/W support for 10 bit color all the way through the data path. Not hard to do, but I doubt you could find that in any of the current offerengs.

Dave
 
^ Quadros have 10bit colour. 10bit would also make srgb a bit smoother even though it's not wide gamut. There is supposidly a "deep color" mode in the graphics drivers to display in 10bit mode. Is there any 10bit color software? I wish photoshop was. That's the last missing link... I'm assuming having your monitor displaying 10bit colour is independent of the software. The software just allows you to 'edit' images in 10bit mode? not sure if i'm correct.


Any word on if the PA series will use glossy or matte panals? I'm hoping for glossy.
 
daveswantek said:
Not just the drivers; you would need a graphics card that has H/W support for 10 bit color all the way through the data path. Not hard to do, but I doubt you could find that in any of the current offerengs.

Dave
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Current hardware has no trouble with that. Internally graphics cards can and often do use 16-bits or even 32-bits floating point per colour channel. That's how they do HDRI and all that jazz. Their internal precision is well in excess of what they output at (that's how you want it to avoid artifacts) so it wouldn't be a problem to increase output precision, with an interface that supported it.
 
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woodscomp said:
Boo on the price, somebody needs to let NEC know there is a recession in the US and we need a price break.

Honestly who wants to spend that kind of coin on a 24" monitor? I would rather buy a new plasma for my living room than spend that kind of money on a monitor for my PC.
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^ Little late on this, but I wish people would get off this guy's back. He brings up a legit point. Over 1 grand for a 24" IPS monitor? Yeah, the easy rebuttal is "oh, it's aimed at 'professionals.'" Right? Wrong!

Don't you all remember NEC's EA231WMi? Yeah, targeted at 'professionals,' too; and look how well THAT turned out :rolleyes: Piss-poor backlight/"color" uniformity, no fix in site, and NEC rep's going as far as telling some poor customers who called, saying there's no uniformity issue and the monitor is fine. Not only that, but the price was 1/3+ LESS, at $300, than this new 24" monitor.

Also, another prosumer-based 24" IPS monitor, the Dell U2410 - although suffering from the same problems of the EA23blahblah, inherit to LG's panels - was still in the $400-$500 range (depending on where you bought it from + Dell's coupon days). That still makes it up to half the price of this new NEC IPS.

Further anti-rebuttal: Sure, some will say, "Well that's b/c those were *E*-IPS. This will be p-IPS!!" Right, like this new [insert w/e letter in front]-IPS will be drastically different from e-IPS? Until we see hard evidence and/or in person, I remain highly skeptical after seeing NEC's other "pro" monitor (the EA23blahblahblah). Because, so far we see nothing to dissuade us into thinking otherwise.

And I find it ironic now that these two NEC insiders ("ArtMarshall" and "Monitor Guy") have infiltrated these boards and, yet, when asked about how p-IPS differs from other IPS panels - or even wtf it means - not one of them has responded yet.

Yeah, did I say I'm "skeptical?" :p
 
Yeastwood said:
^ Little late on this, but I wish people would get off this guy's back. He brings up a legit point. Over 1 grand for a 24" IPS monitor? Yeah, the easy rebuttal is "oh, it's aimed at 'professionals.'" Right? Wrong!

Don't you all remember NEC's EA231WMi? Yeah, targeted at 'professionals,' too; and look how well THAT turned out :rolleyes: Piss-poor backlight/"color" uniformity, no fix in site, and NEC rep's going as far as telling some poor customers who called, saying there's no uniformity issue and the monitor is fine. Not only that, but the price was 1/3+ LESS, at $300, than this new 24" monitor.

Also, another prosumer-based 24" IPS monitor, the Dell U2410 - although suffering from the same problems of the EA23blahblah, inherit to LG's panels - was still in the $400-$500 range (depending on where you bought it from + Dell's coupon days). That still makes it up to half the price of this new NEC IPS.

Further anti-rebuttal: Sure, some will say, "Well that's b/c those were *E*-IPS. This will be p-IPS!!" Right, like this new [insert w/e letter in front]-IPS will be drastically different from e-IPS? Until we see hard evidence and/or in person, I remain highly skeptical after seeing NEC's other "pro" monitor (the EA23blahblahblah). Because, so far we see nothing to dissuade us into thinking otherwise.
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neclineup.png


Where did you get the idea that the NEC EA was targeted at the professional market or the prosumer market. It isn't. It's part of their middle-tier mass-market business line aimed at selling to large corporations in bulk.

Why you are expecting any sort of stellar quality out of a $300 business monitor I have no idea. Companies have product tiers for a reason, and you usually pay for what you get (better panel binning, better quality control, better internal electronics, better support/warranty etc.).

Yeah, did I say I'm "skeptical?" :p
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NEC's 2490WUXI is still considered by many to be one of the highest quality sRGB 24" LCD monitors ever made.
The 2490WUXi2, 2690WUXi, 2690WUXi2, and 3090WQXi were no slouches either.

Since the PA line is the replacement for the 90WUXi & 90WQXi lineup at the same price points, and being marketed as an upgrade, you should expect their top-tier PA lineup to at least match the quality of their previous top-tier lineup.

One thing you shouldn't be concerned about is the PA lineup not being suitable for use in a color-critical environment, since it most certainly will be suitable. Considering all the similarities, the PA241W is no doubt using the same H-IPS (or if your prefer p-IPS) panel as the Eizo CG243W, and should match its quality.
 
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From the pyramidal chart, I don't get why Financial market needs th PA series... and not the EA one.

and from the posted pdf: http://www.nec-display-solutions.it/...ish.pdf&e=e2s1
it seems that NEC unfortunately drops the 20/21' 4:3 1600x1200 size AR series in favor of the 23 16:9 one. A pity, especially in the Pro range.
 
drtc said:
From the pyramidal chart, I don't get why Financial market needs th PA series... and not the EA one.
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Those are actual Financial market customers.

Deutsche Bank must like spending money for better quality since they chose to buy P series panels, while Russian Saving Bank on the other hand prefers to save money and bought AccuSync series panels (or maybe they needed touchscreens).

And yes, there is no doubt the P series monitors fall under a want rather then a need for the financial sector.

Edit: Oops I misread and just noticed Investment Banks on the top of the chart. Disregard this post.
 
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drtc said:
From the pyramidal chart, I don't get why Financial market needs th PA series... and not the EA one.
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These segments often build arrays of monitors, and the 90 series has a number of features to manage and build arrays of screens. I presume the PA will continue these feature sets. Think traders with 9-12 screens at their station, or walls of panels used separately or together.

and from the posted pdf: http://www.nec-display-solutions.it/...ish.pdf&e=e2s1
it seems that NEC unfortunately drops the 20/21' 4:3 1600x1200 size AR series in favor of the 23 16:9 one. A pity, especially in the Pro range.
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It doesn't bother me at all. They can't make a monitor which they can't find a suitable panel for. Perhaps LG dropped the manufacture of top-tier panels of this geometry. Without a panel - no monitor. Have any other display companies announced pro-grade 20" 4:3 displays in their next-gen lineup?
 
Cyberbeing said:
Coming from the same pdf in the first post, NEC claims Eizo uses Class B panel binning for their Eizo CG line, while NEC uses Class A panel binning on their PA/90 line, so it may even turn out better.
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Huh? What they're saying in the slides is that the PVA panels used by Eizo were categorized as "class B" in terms of viewing angles, while the IPS panels used by NEC were categorized as "class A". This is just a PVA vs. IPS issue. It seems like you misunderstood this...
 
You're correct, I was thinking it referred to binning but it is actually a certification test done by Fogra.

Though it does appear the Fogra certification is a combination of a combination of a uniformity test AND a viewing angle test, not just viewing angle. Of course the Eizo CG243W (IPS panel) also seem to get Class A certification by Forgra, so it very well may be as you said about IPS panels showing their strength in the viewing angle portion of the test.
 
Vanquish said:
For Will and Art.
At 1079 USD the new 24" PA seems reasonably priced: will it translate in 1080 Euros, here?
Emanuele
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I strongly hope, it won`t be that case. I can only say politely that 1 usd = 1eur is thievery. Companies must stop with such conversion rate ( starting in software market ) asap.
 
An interesting read. Thanks a lot.
I'm only worried about one thing: 16:9. Sounds like 16:10 is about to die, unfortunately. :(
 
3d_vlk said:
I strongly hope, it won`t be that case. I can only say politely that 1 usd = 1eur is thievery. Companies must stop with such conversion rate ( starting in software market ) asap.
Click to expand...



It's not so much the companies as our governments...
Have you ever heard of SALES TAX?!?!?
They have it in the US, but it's not shown until you actually purchase something. And it's generally between 3 and 10%, depending on which state and county you're in. Actually I think purchases made over the internet were completely tax free until recently.

Here in Europe, sales tax is included in the shown price (unless you're buying on the behalf of a company) and can never be lower than 15% (exceptions are allowed for special stuff like food or sports/health activities). In my country the sales tax is at a whooping 25%.

And you can be sure that your country also will have to impose those high levels sooner or later as long as you and other oblivous people keep voting in fortune seekers from the third world. =/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_taxes_in_the_United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_tax
 
first 4:3 dies, now 16:10 dies, i wonder what's next, 2.35:1?
I'd want to know if the new IPS panel has the white shift or if there's any sort of Polarizer included.
IPS is great as long as there's light but when it's dark it could be better.
 
Jonte said:
It's not so much the companies as our governments...
Have you ever heard of SALES TAX?!?!?
They have it in the US, but it's not shown until you actually purchase something. And it's generally between 3 and 10%, depending on which state and county you're in. Actually I think purchases made over the internet were completely tax free until recently.

Here in Europe, sales tax is included in the shown price (unless you're buying on the behalf of a company) and can never be lower than 15% (exceptions are allowed for special stuff like food or sports/health activities). In my country the sales tax is at a whooping 25%.

And you can be sure that your country also will have to impose those high levels sooner or later as long as you and other oblivous people keep voting in fortune seekers from the third world. =/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_taxes_in_the_United_States
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sales_tax
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Hi,
of course I know sales tax. In Slovakia we have flat tax of 19%, but the end price ( for consumer electronic in e-shops at least ) seems to be always by this formula :
(price in usd with 1:1 conversion rate)+(sales margin from 5 to 15%)
which is way beyond the fair price including tax.

Just calculate with me :
- currently is 1 eur = ~1,35 usd - which is 35% difference
- count off the max tax in US (10 %) and you`ll get 25% difference, count off the shipping rates ( ~ 5% ), you`ll get 20% difference which is pure ripoff on euro, and this my friend goes not into state pocket, but into company pocket ...
 
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Xpuser said:
first 4:3 dies, now 16:10 dies, i wonder what's next, 2.35:1
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wow, i hope not!
I guess you will still find some 16:10 panels but with unattractive prices and limited choices... Or maybe I'm just pessimistic.

Xpuser said:
I'd want to know if the new IPS panel has the white shift or if there's any sort of Polarizer included.
IPS is great as long as there's light but when it's dark it could be better.
Click to expand...
There's a polarizer shown in the figures on page 15 but then again, this doesn't mean anything... For now, I think nobody here can tell you until more details are revealed on the new models. I agree that IPS alone isn't that great when it's dark...
 
3d_vlk said:
Hi,
of course I know sales tax. In Slovakia we have flat tax of 19%, but the end price ( for consumer electronic in e-shops at least ) seems to be always by this formula :
(price in usd with 1:1 conversion rate)+(sales margin from 5 to 15%)
which is way beyond the fair price including tax.

Just calculate with me :
- currently is 1 eur = ~1,35 usd - which is 35% difference
- count off the max tax in US (10 %) and you`ll get 25% difference, count off the shipping rates ( ~ 5% ), you`ll get 20% difference which is pure ripoff on euro, and this my friend goes not into state pocket, but into company pocket ...
Click to expand...
jeez, did you forget import duties by any chance? :rolleyes:
 
and said:
Well, I doubt they are assembled in the US...
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I didn't say they are. Are you saying EU and US impose exactly the same import duty on every single thing they import? :rolleyes: I'm not even getting into other economic variables: government taxation on business, strength of competition and so on. Converting prices according to exchange rate and expecting them to be the same across the world only shows how little you understand the way modern market economy works. Claiming that the entire difference goes into company's pocket is even more, well, misguided
 
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and said:
Well, I doubt they are assembled in the US...
Click to expand...

TehQuick said:
I didn't say they are. Are you saying EU and US impose exactly the same import duty on every single thing they import? :rolleyes: I'm not even getting into other economic variables: government taxation on business, strength of competition and so on. Converting prices according to exchange rate and expecting them to be the same across the world only shows how little you understand the way modern market economy works. Claiming that the entire difference goes into company's pocket is even more, well, misguided
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I appreciate your opinion, but:
- it is the `modern economy` that brought the economies of countries around the world to the `knees` ( and it is natural result of being greedy )
- such `modern thinking` of being on top no matter what leads only to bad future ( to have money variables for `every` aspect of life & labour, i.e. to charge for `anything` in the name of competition/better life, i.e. use every possible glitch in economy for self-profit, no matter the possible wrongdoing - in broader sense )
- people must realize that more and more redundant complexity in economies leads to abnormal results which are bad in most cases

So in the end I may not know `all the variables` across the world economies, but I disagree to be completely wrong in my opinions, also I apologize for this economy offtopic and I don`t want to continue on it ( for obvious reasons ), this thread is about PA241W not about economy flame.
 
3d_vlk said:
I appreciate your opinion, but:
- it is the `modern economy` that brought the economies of countries around the world to the `knees` ( and it is natural result of being greedy )
- such `modern thinking` of being on top no matter what leads only to bad future ( to have money variables for `every` aspect of life & labour, i.e. to charge for `anything` in the name of competition/better life, i.e. use every possible glitch in economy for self-profit, no matter the possible wrongdoing - in broader sense )
- people must realize that more and more redundant complexity in economies leads to abnormal results which are bad in most cases

So in the end I may not know `all the variables` across the world economies, but I disagree to be completely wrong in my opinions, also I apologize for this economy offtopic and I don`t want to continue on it ( for obvious reasons ), this thread is about PA241W not about economy flame.
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First of all, there's ideal world and there's real world. There was one big experiment to make world fair and straight, it was called communism. Do you suggest we try again? Because that's what it sounds like when you want exchange rates to reflect the real value of any particular item across the world. That's exactly what what was done under communist (read - command) economy.

Secondly, this thread is NOT just about PA241W, it's about the entire line of PA 90s. RTFM, thread title that is.

Yes, you are entitled to your opinion. As am I to pointing out to fatal flaws in your logic.
 
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Where did all this talk about 16:10 dying come from out of the blue?

Both the 24" PA241W and the 30" PA301W are 16:10.

The only 16:9 model is the 27" PA271W which is has a resolution of 2560x1440.

I wouldn't count of 16:10 dying in high-end professional monitors anytime soon.
 
I noticed today that http://tftcentral.co.uk/ is going to be doing a review of the PA241w. I can't wait to see the results!

Cyberbeing said:
The only 16:9 model is the 27" PA271W which is has a resolution of 2560x1440.
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There also looks to be a 23" (PA231w) at 16:9 but it uses e-IPS instead of p-IPS. Has less aRBG coverage. I don't think it would be much better than the EA231wmi.
 
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