New pair of can's for the commute - Suggestions wanted!

CKMorpheus

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I've owned a pair of Sennheiser PXC 300's for over 4 years now and they've treated me very well. Excellent sound cancellation, great sound quality, and very portable. However, time has had its toll on them, the wires have just about had it (the cold NYC weather only makes them more fragile), and the padding is also not as... padded.

And so, it is time to get a new pair, and I do not want to step down. In fact, I want a step up. I was looking at the Sennheiser PXC 450's, which, in my experience, I'll probably love (I've owned the PXC 150s before my current pair and they also rocked my socks). However, I want to expand my audio horizon's and I am looking at Grado's and Audio-Technica's as well. There are so many options to choose from I don't know where to begin, so I guess I'll just lay out my wants/needs here and let the experts decide for me!

I'm looking for...
Good outside noise reduction (passive or active, I care not)
Little to no sound leakage (this isn't necessarily a NEED, since I know that open-air cans produce much better sound and bass)
Crystal clear sound and detailed, heavy bass (I want to hear details even the PXC 300's couldn't produce)
Durability (I take them pretty much everywhere and sometimes I will wrap the cable around the headphones quickly and stuff them in my bag)

This will be used primarily with my iPhone/iPod, and MacBook Pro, where I typically listen to 256, 320kbps, or Apple Lossless files.

I'd prefer to steer clear of having to use batteries in my cans (like the PXC series needs to noise cancellation) but as I understand it, I may need an external/portable amp anyway to get the best sound out of some cans.

Oh yeah, and I want to keep this under or around $250.

So tell me friends, what should I get?

Thanks in advance!
 
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ATH-M50 has all of you requirements! My favourite phones, ever! Just note they are studio headphones, so the sound is perceived by some as a bit sterile, but as a music fanatic listening to absolutely every genre, it's exactly what I look for.
 
open: hd555, hd595s, ath-ad700
closed:hd280, ath-a700

All of those are great headphones that do not require an amp. Also the closed cans will provide a bit more bass.
 
Since this is for the commute, you'd probably want good isolation. Problem with getting good isolation passively is that you've got to get closed headphones with strong clamping tension. I'd say the Equation RP21 is a start. I don't know how much isolation you get with the Audio Technica ATH-M50 mentioned earlier, but I know you get practically none with the A#00 series.

Do they have to be over the head earphones? IEM's are much better at providing isolation, though some find them just as uncomfortable...
 
Active NC is crap for this application.

Passive NC: closed circumaural headphones will range from okay to very good isolation, while IEMs will generally provide extremely good isolation. Open headphones, supra-aural headphones, and earbuds will provide approximately zero isolation.

For a commuter closed circumaural, I favor the Sony MDR-V6 with aftermarket velour pads. Very good sound quality, well above its price point. They fold up which helps with portability. They have sufficient sensitivity to work well off pretty much any source, but will still benefit from better amplification if available. They're also insanely durable - many units bought in the 1980s still see active use.

IEMs, there are many choices. Head-Direct RE0s are on sale for $79 right now, very good, but they're very much a "you need an amp" option.
 
I'd go IEMs too. I have some sound magic pl-30s with comply t400 tips, and it lets me hear soft piano notes while riding the train in chicago. You can still hear the train, but you can hear the music very well too. All other noises (cars, beggers, stupid people in the library) are totally blocked out.
 
For commuting (and now all of my uses) I'm extremely pleased with passive isolation. Circuitry, battery packs and all that crap just to use huge, active-cancelling headphones (and carry them around) just seems silly to me.

I've gone the IEM route. I'm presently using Shure E4s - they've been very durable and have more sound capability than the sources I usually drive them with. I'm a bit of a difficult fit for IEMs, and probably don't get as good as seal as many do, but they revolutionized my commute. They wrap up into a small, hard, clamshell case. I use them on the commute with my PSP (loaded with TV or movies), at the gym (PSP or iPod), around the office (iPod or PC or M-Audio Audiophile USB), and sometimes at home for gaming instead of 5.1 (Auzen Forte).

If you haven't ever tried IEMs before, try some or buy them from somewhere returnable in case it doesn't work out for you.
 
I picked up a pair of Shure 115m's from the Apple Store a month ago and was not impressed at all! They were comfortable and blocked out sound fantastic, but the sound quality was poor and muddy and didn't set a good sound-stage at all, and the noise I heard from the cord rubbing against my jacket while I walked annoyed me greatly.
 
I picked up a pair of Shure 115m's from the Apple Store a month ago and was not impressed at all! They were comfortable and blocked out sound fantastic, but the sound quality was poor and muddy and didn't set a good sound-stage at all, and the noise I heard from the cord rubbing against my jacket while I walked annoyed me greatly.

I've found that the tips you use greatly alter the experience. The Comply T400's really help the sound quality as it is easy to get a good seal.
 
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I think I'd prefer to stay away from IEMs for this go around, I've never found them as enjoyable to use.
 
Well my love for Audio Technica ATH headphones is well known. However, with regards to a commute there are two considerations for them:

1) They are HUGE. Biggest headphones I've ever owned. Might be bigger than what you want.

2) They sit on your head very lightly, they don't grip it.

IEMs are the way to go for the best passive isolation. If you don't want IEMs, you might want to go for active cancellation. In general I'm not a fan, as I'd prefer good IEMs instead of active phones, but if IEMs are out, active phones are the next best thing.
 
RE0: Not exactly necessary to have an amplifier, but I'd say it's recommended. The sound is absolutely magnificent for $79, if a little bass lite.

IEMs in general: Ideal. Etymotic/Shures/Westones with either triple flanges or Shure black foams will give excellent sound isolation. Complys tend to have a short life span.

Portable headphones: Bigger package, bigger sound. Some say the Sennheiser HD25-1 II has good isolation in addition to great sound.

Full sized: Not ideal.
 
You're right, the RE1 were the "amp absolutely needed" option. RE0s have higher efficiency and can make do without, but will do even better with.

I still haven't gotten around to trying them with Comply tips. The multi-flange gives better isolation, the Comply is more of a comfort thing.
 
Haven't IEMs been known to cause slight hearing damage/loss over time? Sorry to hijack the thread...
 
Haven't IEMs been known to cause slight hearing damage/loss over time? Sorry to hijack the thread...

Any headphone will do this if you listen to them loud enough. Further, IEM's allow for a lower listening volume by passively blocking out more of the background noise. There's no scientific evidence on IEM's causing more or less hearing damage than anything else putting a high level of SPL in your ear. I know that some people experience tinnitus when they use them, but that can be the result of a huge number of factors (irritation of the ear canal from the earpiece etc.) and tinnitus is not 100% linked to hearing loss.

If anything, they are much better for your ears in certain situations: for musicians on stage, when used at a correct level, IEMs put a lot less pressure on your ear than stage wedges combined with loud drums/guitars and a noisy concert environment, etc.

If you're curious about this topic, many audiologists/otolaryngologists have discussed over on http://www.head-fi.org/forums/
 
I've had my HD280s (64 ohm) for about a year now, and they go everywhere with me. The biggest problem I have with them is the long coily studio cord, when it's coiled up in my pocket it's bigger than my Sansa Clip and Little Dot Micro+ amp combined. I prefer neutral sound, not a bass junkie so these are great for me. And so far very durable, the pads and cord are easy to replace and fairly inexpensive. You wouldn't need an amp with these, I just prefer one.

Dustin
 
Haven't IEMs been known to cause slight hearing damage/loss over time? Sorry to hijack the thread...

Much less so than other sound sources if used properly, but probably more so if you run them far too loud. So don't.
 
AKG K518DJ

I've been using a pair of K81DJ's (same phones, just older model number) and absolutely love them for portable use. Excellent isolation and soundstage, with a little emphasis on bass. Super durable, they fold up nicely, and they look pretty dope to boot.

They do tend to fit rather snugly, and users with larger melons have reported some discomfort after extended listening sessions. The cabling is also a little on the thin side but I haven't had any problems in the 3+ years I've owned mine. I think they go for around $100.

Alternatively, the K450's also look very nice, but I haven't used them personally and not sure how much they cost.
 
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Isn't the RE# series semi-open IEMs? They'll give some isolation, but it won't be great.
 
RE1 & RE2 are semi-open. But they still have IEM-grade isolation, only towards the middle of the scale instead of extremely high. The RE0 is closed. The RE1 & RE2 are enough to completely shut out commuting and "other people" noise sources if inserted properly. Probably not so great for jackhammers and jet engines, but you shouldn't count on IEMs in a "hearing protection needed" environment anyway.
 
With IEMs fit and seal is important or they won't sound right. The typical "newbie" complaint is no bass - then they are likely not sealed.

Good tips and a "learning period" are required to know when things are right.

Indeed IEMs do allow much lower listening levels and still clearly discern all of the program material. As I said I often use them for TV/movies on my PSP so I had to follow dialog or the show made no sense. On non-IEM headphones I usually had the PSP cranked almost to max and still the bus/train engine or clucking hens in the seats next to me kept me from hearing things properly. I can now run 1/3 the volume, hear every word, and not be disturbed by those next to me. I've done my ears a huge favour.

@CKMopheus: Shure and possibly other IEM manufacturers have 30-day "try out" guarantee periods. You could try them for up to a month and see how you like them. Also, the ones you tried are bottom-of-the-line, pretty much. Tough to make a good judgement from entry-level. Entry-level has always been a little different - under the old naming this was the E2c.
 
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With IEMs fit and seal is important or they won't sound right. The typical "newbie" complaint is no bass - then they are likely not sealed.

Good tips and a "learning period" are required to know when things are right.

Indeed IEMs do allow much lower listening levels and still clearly discern all of the program material. As I said I often use them for TV/movies on my PSP so I had to follow dialog or the show made no sense. On non-IEM headphones I usually had the PSP cranked almost to max and still the bus/train engine or clucking hens in the seats next to me kept me from hearing things properly. I can now run 1/3 the volume, hear every word, and not be disturbed by those next to me. I've done my ears a huge favour.

@CKMopheus: Shure and possibly other IEM manufacturers have 30-day "try out" guarantee periods. You could try them for up to a month and see how you like them. Also, the ones you tried are bottom-of-the-line, pretty much. Tough to make a good judgement from entry-level. Entry-level has always been a little different - under the old naming this was the E2c.

That's another thing, the Shure's I tried may have been low end, but the price was not. I feel like I get a lot more for my money if I stay away from IEMs, is this not true?
 
I've noticed that decent IEMs seem overpriced. I haven't auditioned many but based on reviews, you seem to pay a premium over cans.

Dustin
 
That's another thing, the Shure's I tried may have been low end, but the price was not. I feel like I get a lot more for my money if I stay away from IEMs, is this not true?

I bought my current IEMs used as I admit they are expensive and I'm thrifty. The IEM concept, however, I'm completely sold on including the extremely compact size, isolation, no active components, and people around you can never hear what you're listening to.

I'm trying to point out that the E2c, now the SE110/SE115, has always been the red-headed stepchild of the Shure lineup despite not being a bargain. They have different nozzle sizes, aren't compatible with the same tips etc... I gave up and returned the E2cs I bought and used JVC "marshmallows" (on the head-fi bang for the buck list at the time) for a year until I bought my E4s (for only $100 in great condition). I couldn't get the E2s to fit properly to get any bass, but I found a position I could hold them in that showed me what I was missing if I could get them to fit properly. Shure olive foamies are just about all that works for me from the Shure lineup and they weren't invented when I had the E2s and wouldn't have fit those nozzles anyways.

I've heard good things about the Etymotic ER-6 series, and personally owned some ER-4Ps for a while. The ER-6s are at a lower price point. The isolation on the Etys was far, far greater than the Shures on me - almost too much (could barely hear a train locomotive beside me, but could feel it).

Have you checked Head-Fi for bang/buck IEM recommendations recently? I don't need another expensive hobby so I only drop in now and then instead of following along religiously.
 
I think I'm going to stick with Sennheiser's this go-around since I know their sound so well, and I've enjoyed their products for years. I'm looking at the HD595 or HD600. What do you guys think? I am aware there is nearly a 100 dollar different in price, which is okay if the step up is worth it. Also, I can't seem to find the ohm for either of these cans, so I need to know if my iPhone/MacBook Pro will power them well, or should an Amp be used?
 
I think I'm going to stick with Sennheiser's this go-around since I know their sound so well, and I've enjoyed their products for years. I'm looking at the HD595 or HD600. What do you guys think? I am aware there is nearly a 100 dollar different in price, which is okay if the step up is worth it. Also, I can't seem to find the ohm for either of these cans, so I need to know if my iPhone/MacBook Pro will power them well, or should an Amp be used?

HD 595 = 50 Ω, more up-front presentation
HD 600 = 300 Ω, more laid back presentation

Besides the difference in sound signature, the 595 will be easily powered by the iPhone/MBP where the HD 600 would greatly benefit from an amp -- further adding to the cost. But even something as inexpensive as a CMoy would help in that regard (though some at Head Fi would scoff at pairing expensive headphones like that with such a basic, inexpensive amplifier).
 
A CMoy would be better than nothing, but much less than it needs.

I'd do one of the Senny models over the Grados. If you're not already a Grado fan, they're not going to be the #1 recommendation.
 
So between those two and say.. the Grado SR225i, which would I be happiest with?

As much as I love Grado SR225s, going by your original post I would go with one of the Senns. The Grados will not provide "heavy bass" and the Senns are probably a bit more durable (especially when it comes to stuffing them in a bag). None of these have great outside noise reduction, but the Grados probably provide less.

ash is exactly right when it comes to the HD 600 -- a CMoy probably won't drive them like they need to be driven, but it's better than nothing. It will help. I was just saying that if you didn't want to spend an additional $100 on an amp, a CMoy could get you by until you upgraded to something better but for you I would probably suggest going with the HD 595 since they'll perform better w/o an amp. Amps are fine for home listening but they can be kind of a PITA if you're mobile with your headphones, as it's just something else to carry around and stuff in your bag.

I would also look into the Audio Technicas as well as Beyerdynamics. The Audio Technicas are reportedly a little bit light on bass, but the Beyer DT-770 Pro would definitely give you heavy-hitting bass, great comfort, great isolation, etc...just throwing something else into the mix here.
 
By way of another option - there are some headphone-specific sound cards now which, while still not quite enough, should do better than a CMoy. Probably "well enough" for most.
 
By way of another option - there are some headphone-specific sound cards now which, while still not quite enough, should do better than a CMoy. Probably "well enough" for most.

Yep, and the *only* reason I didn't suggest that was this:

"...will be used primarily with my iPhone/iPod, and MacBook Pro"

If you'd spend the majority of your time listening to the headphones attached to a PC, I would totally recommend a Forte (if gaming) or Xonar Essence STX (if music was the primary concern).
 
As much as I love Grado SR225s, going by your original post I would go with one of the Senns. The Grados will not provide "heavy bass" and the Senns are probably a bit more durable (especially when it comes to stuffing them in a bag). None of these have great outside noise reduction, but the Grados probably provide less.

ash is exactly right when it comes to the HD 600 -- a CMoy probably won't drive them like they need to be driven, but it's better than nothing. It will help. I was just saying that if you didn't want to spend an additional $100 on an amp, a CMoy could get you by until you upgraded to something better but for you I would probably suggest going with the HD 595 since they'll perform better w/o an amp. Amps are fine for home listening but they can be kind of a PITA if you're mobile with your headphones, as it's just something else to carry around and stuff in your bag.

I would also look into the Audio Technicas as well as Beyerdynamics. The Audio Technicas are reportedly a little bit light on bass, but the Beyer DT-770 Pro would definitely give you heavy-hitting bass, great comfort, great isolation, etc...just throwing something else into the mix here.

I do like what I read and hear about the Beyer DT-770 Pro, but they are 250 ohms, which there is no way my iPhone could power well on its own.

Man I am so torn over this decision. There are so many paths to take!
 
There's an 80 ohm version.

I see that, however, they are sold out at Amazon. I do spy the DT-880's in both 250 ohm and 32 ohm versions over at Headphone.com, what of those? I do like the way they've been reviewed. What would be the upside and downsides of the 32ohm vs 250ohm? Obviously my iPhone will easily power the 32omh, but what are the downsides to getting them? Should I count a few extra pennies and get the 250ohm + a portable amp?
 
I use my Sennheiser HD25-1 II 's sometimes when commuting longer than an hour, really good with my Walkman as they're 70ohms.
Otherwise i'll use my AKG K518LE's
 
The DT880 is similar but open.

I noticed that, so I guess I'll stick with the 770s @ 80ohm?

I feel like I'm making progress, hooray!

I found them for under 200 + 25 dollar shipping from the UK, which puts them way cheaper than Amazon or Newegg by a long shot. What do you think?

http://www.hifiheadphones.co.uk/beyerdynamic-dt770-pro-closed-back-headphones-80937-dt-770-prodid-1159.html?currency=USD

EDIT: I've ordered them. EEP! Actually came out to 206 give or take.
 
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Well I've been enjoying these cans for over a week now and they sounded great when I first opened them, and they sound better and better the more I use them. Breaking them in really works! I'm really enjoying discovering all the little touches in some of my favorite music.

I've been re-ripping whatever CDs I still have around me into a 320 bit rate or Lossless, regretting the fact that I thought 192kbps was the best sounding option in high school.

Hey, it's not my fault an 80GB hard drive seemed massive back in the day!

Thank you everyone for pointing me in the right direction!

- Andrew
 
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