help me choose parts for sff htpc!

M

MATTRESS

Gawd
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Sep 26, 2003
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I can't think of anything I want for the holidays, so I'm trying to part together an HTPC...
I'd like small size, low noise and 1080p w/ 5.1 surround over hdmi as my priorities.

I have a desktop computer that's rarely used that has a intel 1.8 c2d processor, 8gb of ram, and a big sata hdd, and antec trupower psu.
I'm thinking to save money, I could re-use some of that stuff in my htpc build, which hopefully will narrow things down.

so I need help finding:
board (for intel core2duo? )
video card (unless I can find a motherboard with onboard hdmi capable of hardware decoding 1080p mkv's + 5.1/7.1 audio over hdmi)
case, and possibly PSU. (this new 80plus thing seems like a plus ;) )

here are some things I've been looking at:

[x] case : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811204039
[x] case : http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129046
[x] case : http://www.chiefvalue.com/product-_-productdetails.cv_-_linkid--7000&item--CE00156137010060

this looks like a fun toy:
[x] intel atom/ion itx board : http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=MB-AT3N7AI&c=CJ

Again, I'm looking for suggestions, pro's, con's, etc. I'm not up to date on all the new hardware, and/or cases out there, and can't seem to find what i'm looking for after hours of digging.

I must say I'm not in love with any of these cases i linked, and would enjoy some more suggestions.

Thanks for any help!
 
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bump..

any help??

for video, should I wait until the ATI 5000 drops, or just go with one of the ati4550's ...

or a mobo with ati 4550 onboard?
 
MATTRESS said:
antec trupower psu.
Click to expand...

Which Trupower PSU?

The Truepower I and II series as well as the Smartpower series were well known for their above average death rates due to a poor choice in caps and cooling design. In more specific terms, Antec/CWT specified/used caps (Fuhjyyu caps) that did not respond well to heat. Unfortunately, Antec made the decision to have the PSU fan only ramp at really high temps in an effort to keep the PSU quiet. However, just medium to high temps were enough to screw up the caps so really high temps were murderous. Over time, this degraded the quality and performance of those PSU series.

So I recommend replacing the PSU, especially if you hear a squeal, whine, or any odd noise coming from the PSU. However, do note that the Truepower I and II series as well as the Smartpower series had a three year warranty. So if you do hear a squeal, whine, or any odd noise, that's enough grounds to RMA the PSU or get a new PSU altogether.

If you're not gaming, don't bother with a dedicated video card. If you really want to reuse that C2D CPU, then I recommend nothing less than a mobo based on the 9300 chipset:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131348

Or the smaller ITX version of that mobo:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500035

The onboard video is capable of handling most HD content out there in addition to the chipset having 7.1 LPCM audio via HDMI.

As far as cases goes, it would help if you could narrow down exactly what you wanted besides small size and low noise. If you go with the mITX mobo linked to above, this case would be a good choice:
$105 - Silverstone SG05B mITX Case with FSP SFX 300W PSU
 
Get a Nvidia 9300/9400 based motherboard and you're done. It's got your video and audio.
 
Archer75 said:
Get a Nvidia 9300/9400 based motherboard and you're done. It's got your video and audio.
Click to expand...

Well the OP suggested an ION board. ION is a Geforce 9400m with HDMI audio and video.
 
Archer75 said:
ion is underpowered. It has problems with flash, hulu, etc.
Click to expand...

Actually it's the Atom CPU that's underpowered for Flash, Hulu, etc. Adobe Flash doesn't make use of the GPU for video acceleration.

Early next year, Flash 10.1 will launch with hardware GPU acceleration. If the ION can handle 1080p Blu-ray and h264, I'm sure it can handle Flash 10.1 as well.
 
-Sn1PeR- said:
I'm fairly certain that can't playback 1080p mkv files smoothly.... I tried on my friends netbook with a 1.6ghz atom and it failed.
Click to expand...

A netbook with a crappy Intel chipset no doubt. Those chipsets do not accelerate video.

Try that same video In Media Player Classic Home Cinema or XBMC on an Ion and it will run just fine.
 
Zachstar said:
For videos not on Flash it runs fine. For flash 10.1 will be here either this year or early next year.

The flash issue is therefore moot.
Click to expand...

Not moot for someone who wishes to play it now.

There is always something better coming. If we waited for it we'd always be waiting. And next year there will be better platforms than ion.

Zachstar said:
A netbook with a crappy Intel chipset no doubt. Those chipsets do not accelerate video.

Try that same video In Media Player Classic Home Cinema or XBMC on an Ion and it will run just fine.
Click to expand...

Not true at all. There are intel chipsets that do indeed accelerate video.

On the other hand, XBMC does not. Unless something has changed with a recent version.
 
Accelerate what? Mpeg 2? In what maybe WMP?

XBMC on linux does fully accelerated video with Nvidia graphics.
 
Zachstar said:
Accelerate what? Mpeg 2? In what maybe WMP?

XBMC on linux does fully accelerated video with Nvidia graphics.
Click to expand...

Intel G45 accelerates everything. mpeg2, vc1 and avc. Use whatever player you like. I use media center and media browser(far better than xbmc). Though I would still go with a Nvidia 9300/9400 based chipset for the op.

And the op didn't say anything about running linux. The vast majority do not. So unless he states otherwise it's safe to assume he's running windows. And as you know there is no hardware acceleration in XMBC in windows.

If I were buying something now I certainly wouldn't get an ion. And if I was going to get something in the future it certainly wouldn't be an ion. There are better choices now and in the future there's clarksfield. CPU and GPU on the same die. Based on Nehalem and will support bitstreaming of TrueHD and DTS-MA HD. All on one chip.
 
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Zach, shut up. Anyone who suggests a single core Atom should not be listened too. Everyone knows that a single core Atom is an incredibly stupid suggestion since it chokes on everything. If you're going to seriously suggest an Atom based system then at least suggest the 330. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

And flash support on an Atom isn't moot until they release the fucking flash update. How the hell do you expect to say "I suggest this because, in three months, the feature you want will be supported.... in three months." :rolleyes:

Matt, listen to anyone else on this. Anyways, if you're going all brand new on this I would suggest this:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103714
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500021
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811121068

I've got something very similar and it works great for me. The only thing I would say is you might want to wait for the 45w Athlon 2s to show up.
 
Archer75 said:
Intel G45 accelerates everything. mpeg2, vc1 and avc. Use whatever player you like. I use media center and media browser(far better than xbmc). Though I would still go with a Nvidia 9300/9400 based chipset for the op.

And the op didn't say anything about running linux. The vast majority do not. So unless he states otherwise it's safe to assume he's running windows. And as you know there is no hardware acceleration in XMBC in windows.

If I were buying something now I certainly wouldn't get an ion. And if I was going to get something in the future it certainly wouldn't be an ion. There are better choices now and in the future there's clarksfield. CPU and GPU on the same die. Based on Nehalem and will support bitstreaming of TrueHD and DTS-MA HD. All on one chip.
Click to expand...

If it could do that poperly then the 1080 file would not have choked. I have never had success with Intel chipsets.

Whatever player you like? Suddenly VLC accelerates video? What about the 1080p file that choked?

Ion does not choke on 1080p files. It handles them just fine as long as the player supports standard or Nvidia video decoding.
 
Zachstar said:
If it could do that poperly then the 1080 file would not have choked. I have never had success with Intel chipsets.

Whatever player you like? Suddenly VLC accelerates video? What about the 1080p file that choked?

Ion does not choke on 1080p files. It handles them just fine as long as the player supports standard or Nvidia video decoding.
Click to expand...

What 1080p file are you referring to as choking? The proper intel chipset can play it just fine. If it doesn't work for you it's because you don't have it setup properly or you aren't using a chipset that supports hardware acceleration of the video you want to play.
And if you are not using a player with hardware acceleration at least you can get a fast enough CPU to handle it all and therefore not choke.

If VLC can use other codecs/filters than yes, it can accelerate video. I don't use it though. A HTPC should be usuable through a front end and media center does it all.

If you need a stand alone player just use MPC-HC. It's the best there is.

If VLC doesn't accelerate video then it most certainly will choke on an ion as the CPU cannot keep up with 1080p video on it's own. So this point of yours in invalid.

As has been pointed out, ion has it's own issues. There is absolutely no reason to get it now. There are better options now and better options available about the time ion won't choke on flash video.
Your entire post is pointless anyways, I never told him to get an intel chipset. I told him to get a Nvidia 9300/9400 based chipset. So I don't know why you are so fixated on Intel.
 
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Archer, your talking reasonably about Intel's newer stuff like the G45. Zach is stuck on the G945 that comes with most Atom chips.

VLC doesn't use external codecs. That's why it's a stupid player.

But seriously, it's just best to ignore Zach or he'll try to get you banned. :rolleyes:
 
Archer75 said:
What 1080p file are you referring to as choking? The proper intel chipset can play it just fine. If it doesn't work for you it's because you don't have it setup properly or you aren't using a chipset that supports hardware acceleration of the video you want to play.
And if you are not using a player with hardware acceleration at least you can get a fast enough CPU to handle it all and therefore not choke.

If VLC can use other codecs/filters than yes, it can accelerate video. I don't use it though. A HTPC should be usuable through a front end and media center does it all.

If you need a stand alone player just use MPC-HC. It's the best there is.

If VLC doesn't accelerate video then it most certainly will choke on an ion as the CPU cannot keep up with 1080p video on it's own. So this point of yours in invalid.

As has been pointed out, ion has it's own issues. There is absolutely no reason to get it now. There are better options now and better options available about the time ion won't choke on flash video.
Your entire post is pointless anyways, I never told him to get an intel chipset. I told him to get a Nvidia 9300/9400 based chipset. So I don't know why you are so fixated on Intel.
Click to expand...

You said "Whatever player you like" that is why. No biggie its just don't want people thinking their Shiny Intel chipset is going to do anything with that player.

And MPC HC Is THE reason I am using my Ion box again (Well that and being able to use HD Flash video once 10.1 is out in a few months.) Not too great with Windows Media streams. But handles video files like a champ.

Just curious tho Sn1Per can you install MPC HC on that atom notebook and see how it handles the file?

Ion overall is just a better choice for HTPC work in my opinion. A single core setup runs at under 20W max and you can grab a complete Ion nettop for 200 there is people saying that just because 10.1 is 3 or so months away it is out of the question. So someone needs to spend 200 additional dollars to make a full up system that will be just as useful as a 200USD system in 3 months?
 
Zachstar said:
You said "Whatever player you like" that is why. No biggie its just don't want people thinking their Shiny Intel chipset is going to do anything with that player.

And MPC HC Is THE reason I am using my Ion box again (Well that and being able to use HD Flash video once 10.1 is out in a few months.) Not too great with Windows Media streams. But handles video files like a champ.

Just curious tho Sn1Per can you install MPC HC on that atom notebook and see how it handles the file?

Ion overall is just a better choice for HTPC work in my opinion. A single core setup runs at under 20W max and you can grab a complete Ion nettop for 200 there is people saying that just because 10.1 is 3 or so months away it is out of the question. So someone needs to spend 200 additional dollars to make a full up system that will be just as useful as a 200USD system in 3 months?
Click to expand...

STOP
 
Zachstar said:
Just curious tho Sn1Per can you install MPC HC on that atom notebook and see how it handles the file?
?
Click to expand...

Nope -- it was a Dell mini 10 that somebody had on a rig I was on so I don't have access to it. I was trying to play a ~3GB 720p mkv file on it.

That new Dell Inspiron Zino HD looks kind of cool, but I am not sure about that cpu either -- or if you get 5.1/7.1 out of the hdmi port on it. It also currently lacks a tv tuner option.
 
It uses an AMD chipset so 2 channel over HDMI only. Ion blows it out of the water on value in my view.

I do hope someone does test MPC HC on a basic atom chipset and reports findings.
 
Hey Crim, I read your post about the single core ATOM's...

What do you think about this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500030
ZOTAC IONITX-D-E Intel Atom N330 Dual Core 1.6 GHz 441 NVIDIA ION Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU Combo - Retail
It's the 330 you were talking about. They also have an identical board, minus the wifi for 25 dollars cheaper.

I like that case you posted too Crim. I was eye-balling this case too:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154091

I thought I had my mind set on mine, but the GF likes the one you picked out :LOL:
 
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Zotac is about to let loose some cheaper Ion boards. I believe the Dual core one is going to be under 130 USD

I have the single core Zotac with power supply. I paid too much for it I admit but with 10.1 coming and discovering MPC HC It certainly has gained quite a bit more use. And playing with the settings some I have manged to squeeze some gaming out of it. Including Zombie servers in Garrys mod. Quite impressive thing!
 
Zachstar said:
Zotac is about to let loose some cheaper Ion boards. I believe the Dual core one is going to be under 130 USD

I have the single core Zotac with power supply. I paid too much for it I admit but with 10.1 coming and discovering MPC HC It certainly has gained quite a bit more use. And playing with the settings some I have manged to squeeze some gaming out of it. Including Zombie servers in Garrys mod. Quite impressive thing!
Click to expand...

I had the single CPU version of it, and I hated the thing. It wasn't really capable of being much else other then a video decoder for certain codecs.

I'm glad to hear Zachstar's managed to squeeze something from it, though.

IMO, it should of been paired with a Core2 CULV, not an Atom (which is basically a PDA CPU, with just enough for full x86 support).
 
CULV? Those are mega expensive

I think of my Atom as being a direct replacement of a XBOX HTPC modded with added benefit of Windows/GPU linux, HD video, HDMI, and far less power.

For basic HTPC that is what people were doing for almost a decade now. Suddenly people have to have Flash RIGHT NOW when flash video on Ion is a whopping 3 months away. Weird at best.

The one I mentioned before. You buy you clear the OEM crap you install MPC HC.. done! Or go and install XBMC OS or linux which while more involved gives you a great deal more.

What I tried to do with it at first was run Windows media center. That is silly.. Media center is not optimized for Ion. Sure it could play the video fine but only once the UI stuff went away. Skip the media center and go with Media player classic instead.
 
Zachstar said:
CULV? Those are mega expensive

I think of my Atom as being a direct replacement of a XBOX HTPC modded with added benefit of Windows/GPU linux, HD video, HDMI, and far less power.

For basic HTPC that is what people were doing for almost a decade now. Suddenly people have to have Flash RIGHT NOW when flash video on Ion is a whopping 3 months away. Weird at best.

The one I mentioned before. You buy you clear the OEM crap you install MPC HC.. done! Or go and install XBMC OS or linux which while more involved gives you a great deal more.

What I tried to do with it at first was run Windows media center. That is silly.. Media center is not optimized for Ion. Sure it could play the video fine but only once the UI stuff went away. Skip the media center and go with Media player classic instead.
Click to expand...
Yep.

MPC was dropped by the dev. MPC-HC is being carried on by the community.

CULV could of been just an option. The fact is, the Atom is rather underpowered for anything by feeding a GPU. (works fine, for some people).


Flash on the ION is "next year", not 3 months away.
 
jeremyshaw said:
Yep.

MPC was dropped by the dev. MPC-HC is being carried on by the community.

CULV could of been just an option. The fact is, the Atom is rather underpowered for anything by feeding a GPU. (works fine, for some people).


Flash on the ION is "next year", not 3 months away.
Click to expand...

I heard someone saying 3 months on another thread. I personally believe its going to be January for PC and later for mobile devices but the videos show its pretty much ready just bug zapping at this point. And there is likely LOTS and LOTS of pressure from Nvidia and mobile device makers to get it out in January.
 
From what I hear from those who've used it that 's a pretty good case too.

Personally, I would shy away from the Zotac Atom boards. They cost a bit more for not a lot of reasons. I'd suggest this one instead:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131408

That, or the board and CPU I suggested earlier. ;)

MATTRESS said:
Hey Crim, I read your post about the single core ATOM's...

What do you think about this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500030
ZOTAC IONITX-D-E Intel Atom N330 Dual Core 1.6 GHz 441 NVIDIA ION Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU Combo - Retail
It's the 330 you were talking about. They also have an identical board, minus the wifi for 25 dollars cheaper.

I like that case you posted too Crim. I was eye-balling this case too:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154091

I thought I had my mind set on mine, but the GF likes the one you picked out :LOL:
Click to expand...
 
Yeah I would pick the ASUS over the Zotac for 2 major reasons: 1. the ASUS has a PCI slot in case you want to add a tuner card or whatever, and 2. The fan sits flushed with the heatsink, making it a better choice for low profile cases. The CPU fan on the Zotac sits high on top of the heatsink, making clearance more difficult.

Although, you could go fanless if you have adequate ventilation and other case fans, but I'd rather not take my chances.
 
Zachstar said:
CULV? Those are mega expensive

I think of my Atom as being a direct replacement of a XBOX HTPC modded with added benefit of Windows/GPU linux, HD video, HDMI, and far less power.

For basic HTPC that is what people were doing for almost a decade now. Suddenly people have to have Flash RIGHT NOW when flash video on Ion is a whopping 3 months away. Weird at best.

The one I mentioned before. You buy you clear the OEM crap you install MPC HC.. done! Or go and install XBMC OS or linux which while more involved gives you a great deal more.

What I tried to do with it at first was run Windows media center. That is silly.. Media center is not optimized for Ion. Sure it could play the video fine but only once the UI stuff went away. Skip the media center and go with Media player classic instead.
Click to expand...

So now you're pushing MPC-HC? I thought it was VLC?

Not everyone wants to attach a keyboard and mouse to their HTPC and manually open MPC-HC and manually select files to play. Media Center is nice to use and can use other codecs/filters too. Everything with one front end and a remote. Along with media browser and you have something better than XBMC(which has no hardware acceleration in windows)

A 1.6ghz atom will choke on alot of content. I recently had an issue with my HTPC(resolved now) where my Core 2 Duo was stuck at 1.6ghz because of a speed step sort of issue. It was a miserable experience. With any downloaded movies(compressed quite a bit) everything worked fine and I had full hardware acceleration. With my bluray rips which I don't compress or strip down, even with HA it will still stutter on occasion in certain scenes. Also, windows 7 and vc1 don't seem to be playing nice right now(MPC-HC seems to be unaffected). I have seen complaints from people with intel, nvidia and ati about this. And an ion will stutter like crazy with this content.
I have tested on both my HTPC's. One an Intel G45 and the other Nvidia. One with a temporary gimped C2D operating at 1.6ghz and the other with a 2ghz c2d. The cpu makes the difference when your software isn't playing nice, there's a bug, a new version borked something, whatever.

IMO a 2ghz dual core is a bare minimum for a HTPC as it can handle everything without hardware acceleration should any issues arise. And it provides some extra processing power for those VC-1's and certain scenes on that 38gb Transformers 2 rip.

If the op wants to use MPC-HC exclusively and all his content supports hardware acceleration then a ion may work for now. If he wants to use other players, front ends, software, etc. then ion is most definitely not the way to go. I certainly wouldn't buy a platform to be locked into one piece of software.

And it's not wierd to want your flash video to play. You don't buy something for something it might do in the future. You buy what works now. As too often with these sorts of things, they just don't live up to their promises.
I have built many computers over the years, several HTPC's, many different configurations, codecs, software, operating systems, etc. Trust me, don't get an ion, it will bite you in the ass at some point and you'll be building a new HTPC.
 
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I was actually going to go win7 ultimate/media center 7, and use a media center remote.

right now, i'm running a p4 .... 3.2Ghz HT if I remember correctly... with winxp w/ media center. it has some crappy onboard intel video. I haven't gotten into any flash movies, it's too much of a hassle for winxp media center. It's not as nice as vista or 7's media center.

Anyway, I think I've been swayed away from the atom/ion combo... I didn't realize I can get an ITX board and retail chip for the same price, if not cheaper.

How is the retail heatsink/fan that comes with the processor? Will it fit in an ITX case ok?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...md_athlon_regor_retail-_-19-103-688-_-Product

and this seems to be the only ITX board worth while that newegg has:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...re=amd_motherboard_itx-_-13-500-021-_-Product
doesn't have quite that good of reviews either..
it has the onboard nvidia geforce 8200 onboard. is that good enough for 1080p hardware acceleration?


I found this intel ITX board:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813500035
it has the GeForce 9300, and seems to have better reviews..

Still not quite sure about zotac though.

geeze i'm more confused than ever now, lol
 
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Well, I own both boards and love them. :) I've learned pretty early on that 98% of Newegg reviews are garbage from people who don't know what they're talking about.

The 9000 series is pretty much the Intel version of the 8000 series.
 
Whether or not the stock HSF fits into an ITX case depends on which ITX case you're talking about.

The onboard 8200 is more than enough for 1080p hardware acceleration.

And I concur with CrimandEvil about the Newegg reviews. :). Well except for server hardware. Those tend to have a more intelligent group of commenters/reviewers.
 
Unless your budget is severely limited, its better to spend a bit more and get hardware which will last a lot longer. That means middle of the pack, and for htpc that means Nvidia 9300/9400 (Asus is the best bet) with an Intel core2duo. Look at renethx's guide for lower priced setups.

Its a proven combo that many people use successfully, has enough power to do everything in software if it needs to and will not have issues. It has higher power consumption than the low end but that doesn't really add up to much, just set your htpc to go to sleep. It will work with 7MC, standalone players and software decoders like coreavc as it supports both DXVA and CUDA.
 
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