5 Ways Linux Shoots Itself in the Foot

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ComputerWorld has a pretty damn accurate list of the top five reasons desktop Linux shoots itself in the foot.

But all too often, I've seen such questions answered with responses like "RTFM you noob! What are you doing running that trash distro anyway! It's GNU/Linux, not Linux!"

Yeah, that's going to encourage new users.
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Again? Is it just me who get a Deja vu feeling? It seems the same criticism is brought up again and again about Linux.
 
I love linux though:

But:

1) Lack of Linux vendor support
IF you got a desktop system, you will have supported features across the board.
Intigrated nic sata sound ati/nvidia/intel display controller, all work there's NO questions asked about that.
Dont say youre system wont work(desktop) cause it will 98% sure if you dont use special hw.
Laptops: Almost always work, with an BIG exception.
You wont get wireless easy, ndiswrapper and so on, 3.5 jack plug, you plug in wooh, sound on my headset, and on the comp at the same time.
Hotkeys wont work and so on, laptops are a pain.... :p
 
AtkinS said:
I love linux though:

But:

1) Lack of Linux vendor support
IF you got a desktop system, you will have supported features across the board.
Intigrated nic sata sound ati/nvidia/intel display controller, all work there's NO questions asked about that.
Dont say youre system wont work(desktop) cause it will 98% sure if you dont use special hw.
Laptops: Almost always work, with an BIG exception.
You wont get wireless easy, ndiswrapper and so on, 3.5 jack plug, you plug in wooh, sound on my headset, and on the comp at the same time.
Hotkeys wont work and so on, laptops are a pain.... :p
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Sounds a bit like OSX ...
 
Linux is like a classy lady. You might not know what to say to her at first, but once you figure it out and give her what she wants, it's AMAZING :D
 
dagas said:
Again? Is it just me who get a Deja vu feeling? It seems the same criticism is brought up again and again about Linux.
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Its funny then, if its constantly the same complaints over and over. You think something would be done about it to attract more users.
 
3) Too much bad techie attitude

In 2009, any reasonably smart person can use any major Linux distribution without much trouble. You can run Linux without ever seeing a shell or manually tuning a conf file. But what if someone new does run into a problem with installing Adobe Flash and asks for help online?

If he or she is lucky, they'll get a considerable and informative answer from an Ubuntu forum or LinuxQuestions. But all too often, I've seen such questions answered with responses like "RTFM you noob! What are you doing running that trash distro anyway! It's GNU/Linux, not Linux!"

Yeah, that's going to encourage new users. If you don't have anything nice and informative to say to new Linux users, then don't say anything. Far too many Linux users seem to confuse acting superior and being rude with how people should act online. It's not.
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That is the sole reason why linux will not get very popular. I had a driver problem with ubuntu linux. My screen was split in half and the bottom was on the top and the top on the bottom.

I went into ubuntu's forums for help and literally got 20 comments saying how i am a newb and shouldnt be asking the question in the forums and should be looking elsewhere for help.

HELLO !!! where else would i go for help .

As long as the linux community acts that way linux will never be very popular.
 
basic underlying problem is simple, the avg user has trouble with windows. Linux requires more. People can argue about the underlying cause but at the end of the day Linux is far less idiot proof then windows. and that is saying something
 
majortom1981 said:
That is the sole reason why linux will not get very popular. I had a driver problem with ubuntu linux. My screen was split in half and the bottom was on the top and the top on the bottom.

I went into ubuntu's forums for help and literally got 20 comments saying how i am a newb and shouldnt be asking the question in the forums and should be looking elsewhere for help.

HELLO !!! where else would i go for help .

As long as the linux community acts that way linux will never be very popular.
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Link?
 
mom want to watch a dvd? sure hit these 50 commands first lol

i think thats what scares people the most... the nerdy "nestelgia" that they must hold on to 1980's tech to feel superior. this happened all the time at uw-milwaukee. professors that would have us use their own pine unix email system and refused to use the campus's modern exchange email system to submit homework... or teaching classes using books from the 80's on assembly languages no longer used in the last 15 years.

linux needs to move away from forced command line scripts and to an environment that is heavy on GUI with the same background command line script abilities.
 
Valset said:
basic underlying problem is simple, the avg user has trouble with windows. Linux requires more. People can argue about the underlying cause but at the end of the day Linux is far less idiot proof then windows. and that is saying something
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thats not quite true
If a user is going to have problems with windows they are likely to have problems with linux AND OSX
The difference is linux gives you the tools and the accessibility to not only shoot yourself in the foot BUT drop a nuke as well

OSX just completly locks you out (all but) removing that so much so that "It just works" and when it doesn't FFFFFFFUUUUUU (a workmate has 2 shiny mac laptops and he is still using his old one because the migrate assistant wont... migrate...)

Windows isn't as bad a OSX but it abstracts the user away from thing alot.
Abstraction is good but sometimes having full access as well as verbosity from apps is great.

How in windows do you go about finding that an app is missing a dll? and what dll? and how do you rectifiy it? what if the SxS is FUBAR? how do you restore that "database"

There are pro's and con's to both. For any of the OS's if it works out of the box you are laughing (and linux is getting better and better, wait till the ubuntu that is due in march 2010 ;) GNOME-3 :D )

I personally prefer the linux method because if something is FUBAR I can and do fix it, likewise if my lass has a linux issue she brings her ubuntu to me and I fix it.
When she gets a Vista issue she brings me her lappy and goes "fix it" to which I reply "what do you want me todo with THAT"
 
jroe52 said:
mom want to watch a dvd? sure hit these 50 commands first lol

i think thats what scares people the most... the nerdy "nestelgia" that they must hold on to 1980's tech to feel superior. this happened all the time at uw-milwaukee. professors that would have us use their own pine unix email system and refused to use the campus's modern exchange email system to submit homework... or teaching classes using books from the 80's on assembly languages no longer used in the last 15 years.

linux needs to move away from forced command line scripts and to an environment that is heavy on GUI with the same background command line script abilities.
Click to expand...

Been a while since you used a modern Linux desktop eh? I rarely have to use the command line and usually only do because I can get things done faster.

Your example of DVD playback is a litte skewed. DVD playback is a licensing issue and really only takes one command to allow DVD playback. This is really a moot point because even with Vista, Windows doesn't play DVDs right out of the box either.
 
TwiceOver said:
Been a while since you used a modern Linux desktop eh? I rarely have to use the command line and usually only do because I can get things done faster.

Your example of DVD playback is a litte skewed. DVD playback is a licensing issue and really only takes one command to allow DVD playback. This is really a moot point because even with Vista, Windows doesn't play DVDs right out of the box either.
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Eh, bad comparison. Windows user can just install a decoder and then from now on just play DVDs using their favorite media player. Still no commands or anything.

That is, if what you say about Linux requiring a command every time you play a DVD. I've never watched a DVD on Linux, so I don't know this.
 
plinko said:
Linux is like a classy lady. You might not know what to say to her at first, but once you figure it out and give her what she wants, it's AMAZING :D
Click to expand...

I prefer my OS loose, alike a 2$ hooker...
You tell her what you want, and she brings it fast and cheap. Sure, you might get a virus, but as long as you employ some protection you will be fine.

Win7 ftw, lol :cool:
 
How in windows do you go about finding that an app is missing a dll? and what dll? and how do you rectifiy it?
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When you start the program, it tells you "can't find MYFILENAME.dll", so you go track down a copy of MYFILENAME.dll and drop it in C:\Windows\System32? And perhaps have to call regsvr32, but usually not?
 
All Linux needs to play a DVD is the codec. Depending on which distro you choose you'll either install it through a GUI interface or the CLI.
 
Quote:
"But all too often, I've seen such questions answered with responses like "RTFM you noob! What are you doing running that trash distro anyway! It's GNU/Linux, not Linux!"

Yeah, that's going to encourage new users. "

How is this any different from the majority of the Windows help forums out there?
 
Bankie said:
All Linux needs to play a DVD is the codec. Depending on which distro you choose you'll either install it through a GUI interface or the CLI.
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As soon as Linux removes that caveat, I'll be on board.
 
IMHO, Linux lacks organization and structure. That is, it doesn’t have a centralized organizational unit overseeing the development of shells, kernels, applications and drivers like that of Windows and OSX. Thus, it’s cumbersome and confusing for individuals to use as a desktop OS.
 
I fiddled with linux again recently. Here is what I ran in to.

Install Linux: Video driver not installed
let it auto install, Reboot to scrambled screen
Google for 45 minutes to find out how to uninstall it from command prompt

Run a bunch of commands to install latest ATI driver manually
Reboot to scrambled screen
after 10 minutes couldn't find the command to uninstall it again
Gave up and went back to windows.



Linux needs more work on usability but that isn't where the development is headed. Hence why it is rarely used by common people. I could put the effort in but I still wouldn't be able to game so I dont.
 
Valset said:
basic underlying problem is simple, the avg user has trouble with windows. Linux requires more. People can argue about the underlying cause but at the end of the day Linux is far less idiot proof then windows. and that is saying something
Click to expand...

No...the attitude which I feel coming from your post is saying something. It is not different than the people on the forums calling people n00bs. You feel are something "better" than the average user. Once you adopt that attitude...nothing changes.
 
It's pretty well known that ATI doesn't get along all that well with Linux.

To install a video driver for my GTX260 I simply boot to the CLI and type 'pacman -S nvidia'. It downloads, installs, and sets itself up automagically. And when there's a driver update it's done automatically with no going to nvidia.com and looking for a new version. It's the same with ALL software that's installed. If I want to update every piece of software on my system that has an update available it's as simple as 'pacman -Syu'.

Linux is harder to setup and learn but once it's setup it's much less hassle to deal with on a daily basis.
 
I want some sort of universal binary and *-get function that ALL Gnu/Linux distros implement.

Linux will never come to the desktop successfully until some large company goes out and makes it completely dumbed down and starts some sort of conformity like Windows (NTFS FS among almost Windows, C:\Users\ C:\Windows C:\Program Files (compared to /var/ /home/ /etc), .exes = applications, most users will be confused between scripts, binaries, and regular no file extension text files in linux).

Hopefully Google is trying to take this path with their Chrome OS.
 
Tech attitude:

IT people use tech, we tend to not respect people if they aint very smart.

"I prefer my OS loose, alike a 2$ hooker...
You tell her what you want, and she brings it fast and cheap. Sure, you might get a virus, but as long as you employ some protection you will be fine.

Win7 ftw, lol "

Does it do what i want ? NO.
Is it Fast, NO?
Is it cheap ?
Cheaper than previously ms products :)

Is it a good follow up for MS
yes
Is it better than previous windowses.
Yes.
Can i use anything else to game with ?
No.

So game devs, make linux games, thats the big problem i'd say!
 
Azhar said:
Eh, bad comparison. Windows user can just install a decoder and then from now on just play DVDs using their favorite media player. Still no commands or anything.

That is, if what you say about Linux requiring a command every time you play a DVD. I've never watched a DVD on Linux, so I don't know this.
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No, run one command (install codec) play in whatever player you want from that point forward. Same as Windows.

I have yet to run into all of these video problems people seem to have. Nvidia, ATI, Intel, Via, all have worked for me without any issues or install this or that via CLI.

It's all personal preference. I feel at home under Linux, and bored to death under Windows. I can't afford a Mac so...
 
I agree with most of what Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols has to say about the subject.

"RTFM you noob! What are you doing running that trash distro anyway! It's GNU/Linux, not Linux!"
Click to expand...

The RTFM crowd needs to STFU or be more considerate and helpful, or don't say anything.:D You can attract more bees with honey than vinegar.

Also
4) Too much infighting
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It's seems there is too much Ubuntu vs Redhat, Gnome vs KDE, emacs vs vim infighting. That whole attitude is just unproductive and immature. Let's work together instead of apart and Linux might just attract more users. Look at the Android phone (specifically HTC Hero or the like) for instance, when you make it easy to use for the common user, people actually like it and will want to use it more.
 
The entire Linux culture revolves around "let's show everyone that our way is better!" so why is anyone surprised that it's full of people who are prone to in-fighting and my-way-is-better-ism?
 
So game devs, make linux games, thats the big problem i'd say!
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Try doing some code in OpenGL. Then try it in DirectX. Then see if you still have questions as to why game developers keep writing Windows-only games.
 
I stopped reading after I read this:

"Microsoft is the biggest reason. Microsoft is a jealous monopoly that doesn't want to share the desktop with anyone. "

I'm going to put my palm to my face now...
 
Trepidati0n said:
No...the attitude which I feel coming from your post is saying something. It is not different than the people on the forums calling people n00bs. You feel are something "better" than the average user. Once you adopt that attitude...nothing changes.
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sorry but its not. and yes I am probably more tech savvy then 95% of normal users as is most of the people on this board, you seem to think that's the norm, buts it isn't. and Linux is simply harder to work with then windows. you don't want to have your user base having to resort to a command line if you can help it and that is hard to do in Linux. my work load (side work) usually consist of 60% malware, 35% user error, and MAYBE 5% hardware issues. This is far more representative of the user base then H
 
Valset said:
basic underlying problem is simple, the avg user has trouble with windows. Linux requires more. People can argue about the underlying cause but at the end of the day Linux is far less idiot proof then windows. and that is saying something
Click to expand...

The 'average' user is not trying to use Linux. I would argue that the more technically savvy Windows users are making the attempt but getting discouraged. Doesn't bode well for the vast majority of the planet.
 
Been using Linux for almost 10 years now. Several of those years I used Linux exclusively on my desktop and servers, these days I mix in OS X on my notebook and Windows for media centre stuff.

Who cares what works for everyone else? If Linux works for you use it, no need to force it on others like a religion! We should stop worrying about how to make Linux the next Windows and worry about how to make Linux better for us, the current Linux users that use it every day.
 
Jarrstin said:
I stopped reading after I read this:

"Microsoft is the biggest reason. Microsoft is a jealous monopoly that doesn't want to share the desktop with anyone. "

I'm going to put my palm to my face now...
Click to expand...

A bit of rhetoric doesn't automatically invalidate the entire article.

Anyway, the article is pretty much reiterating what most people already know - though that's not necessarily a bad thing. However, the article could've been better had it proposed solutions.

For example: the infighting might be solved through an arbiter. Co-operation could be achieved if all the major Linux distros banded together into a consortium. Etc.
 
I used Linux (Kubuntu) for six months in a dual boot configuration. From what I can tell, Linux is usually meant for people who are so new to computers, that they don't mess around with much outside of email, word processing, and internet surfing, or it is meant for those who know CLI as well as the GUI. I'm pretty good with Windows so I found the UI with KDE 4 simple and easy, not to mention pretty, but after a while problems started coming up. First, I needed to update my NVidia GPU driver, but it wasn't found in the repositories so I had to go to the net and do it manually which was a complete pain. Every time the OS had an update, I was forced to change settings in CLI so I could boot into the GUI once again because of updating the driver. Then, I wanted software that wasn't found in the repositories so I had to compile the application. Next, a new version of the OS was released and I updated, only to not be able to launch the OS. After hours of searching and reinstalling, I found that, strangely enough, my TV tuner was somehow blocking the boot up and short of going into CLI, again, to modify files, I would not be able to use it. Finally, my sound card started having issues and I would have to modify files, in CLI, to get it to work. I haven't been so annoyed with an OS since my first PC. It had Windows 3.0 on it, and it took a while to learn the OS. After all these problems, I went back to Windows. I can easily see the potential of Linux, but until they make it as easy as Windows or Mac to use, few people are going to adopt it. They need to make it easy to install apps not in the repositories and simple to update drivers outside of a new OS release.
 
samsonJS said:
Been using Linux for almost 10 years now. Several of those years I used Linux exclusively on my desktop and servers, these days I mix in OS X on my notebook and Windows for media centre stuff.

Who cares what works for everyone else? If Linux works for you use it, no need to force it on others like a religion! We should stop worrying about how to make Linux the next Windows and worry about how to make Linux better for us, the current Linux users that use it every day.
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Believe in Windows and ye shall be saved! The world will end in 2012! Repent to the Almighty Windows!
 
Proprietary drivers are against the model of the Linux kernel. This is really an unfortunate situation because kernel development model is fantastic for kernel devel, but bad for integrating with the real world state of video cards which is dominated by proprietary drivers, a model which is not changing soon (except for Intel, but Nvidia + AMD are the only 2 who matter). This is a good example of a problem that drives people to Windows, and is one of the reasons why my htpc runs Vista and not Linux.
 
Bankie said:
Linux is harder to setup and learn but once it's setup it's much less hassle to deal with on a daily basis.
Click to expand...

I still prefer Windows and OS X but if there's one thing I would love for them to take from distros like Ubuntu, its the package manager. Having a centralized place from which to download and install applications is so nice. The closest thing to it are services like Steam, but that's a separate application for managing games, not a part of the operating system itself.

I guess the closest thing would be the way applications are handled in the iPhone, but that's just a smartphone. I'd love to have that on a desktop OS.
 
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