Help with the "nifty fifty" Canon 50mm f/1.8 II

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SilverMK3

[H]ard|Gawd
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Dec 15, 2002
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Hey,
I'm pretty new to the DSLR thing, I just got my T1i and a couple of lenses 2 weeks ago. Anyway, I got a good deal on a Canon 50mm f/1.8 II lens last night, but I'm having some trouble dialing in the best settings for it.

The main problem I'm having is that the AF really hunts back & forth a lot, sometimes never finding focus at all. The only way I can make sure that the shutter does what I want when I want is to use Live View instead of the viewfinder but this seems like cheating (though the zoom feature is great for manual focus tweaking).

The other thing is that I've only been able to get crisp low-light shots with a tripod, as it has no IS and I'm seeing a bit of camera shake.

I've only had a couple of hours to play with it so far, any suggestions on what I might be doing wrong?
- Using Av
- Aperture is usually set between 1.8 and 2.6
- No flash
- ISO is auto

Help?
 
About AF hunting, aim for a point of contrast, like the edge of a wall, ideally with the center AF sensor. With my D40 the side ones seem to do poorly in low light.

Also, improve your handholding technique if you're having issues with shake. Take your right hand, take the DSLR, put it right next to your left shoulder facing left. Take your left hand to support the lens, with the arm right up against your ribs. I can get clear shots down to 1/20 this way.
 
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Also, release the shutter while exhaling, not while holding your breath.
 
Welcome to the nifty fifty club.

The Af does hunt a lot in low light. Even with high contrast area's it's impossible to get it to focus let alone accurately. If it wont lock with AF you are just going to have to jump to Manual focus and try to find it there (with a big lcd it's easier, on a rebel xt viewfinder it's impossible.) With your camera shakes try finding what the iso is in each shot you take. Typically in low light your going to need 1600 ISO if you want enough shutter speed to get the shot. Also as Pylon was trying to say set your focus points to just the center don't have the camera guess where it should focus you need to tell it where to focus. This lens is a great learning lens because of it's flaws and figuring out how to work around them and to get the camera to do what you want to do instead of it doing everything for you. So good luck and enjoy your setup.
 
f4-f8 I think are going to be your sharpest settings.

Also, if you don't mind posting your pictures so that we can get a better undestanding of what you're shooting and how you're shooting it.
 
Well, to brighten up your images, you're going to want to use the widest aperture possible - that's the whole point of owning fast lenses! If you're shooting in low light, try leaving the lens at F/1.8. This isn't going to make focusing any easier, but you'll get better looking images.

The next thing to decide is your shutter speed. If you're hand-holding, you will probably want to keep it to 1/50th-second or faster. As your hand-holding technique improves you may be able to get away with as much as 1/2-second if you’re lucky. If you're using a tripod, shutter speed is not a concern, but then again neither is owning a fast lens - crank down the aperture to F/8 and leave the shutter open as long as it takes.

The last thing you want to tweak is the ISO setting. Once you have your aperture opened up and your shutter at the lowest manageable speed, if you still need more brightness start turning up the ISO. On the T1i, I would personally avoid anything over ISO-800.

Focusing is an art I haven't completely mastered either (does anyone ever?) - I still miss my old-school SLR lens with the half-circles that show you exactly when you have the subject in focus (why did they quit using those anyways??). For auto focus to work, the point you select has to be over something with enough detail for the camera to make the right decision. This process is made quite a bit more difficult by low-light scenes where everything is in low contrast. You should eventually learn to manually focus anyways - might as well start practicing now. :)
 
Thanks for the tips!
I'll try them out when I get home from work and post some examples of what I come up with.
 
Okay,
I went for a walk with the wife and took as many shots as I could before she started leaving without me :p

Here's a processed, tripod mounted shot of my TV headphones:
IMG_0542_3_4_tonemapped.jpg


A handheld, macro-esque shot, this was the 5th of 5 attempts to get it to focus on the majority of the subject:
IMG_0583.JPG


A random friendly cat on our walk, it's not as sharp as I'd like it to be, but the cat kept coming too close for me to focus on it!
IMG_0611.JPG


A handheld shot of the sky. There's way more color and light in this shot than there was in person. I can't help thinking that having Image Stabilization would have made it a lot sharper:
IMG_0626.JPG


Walking home. I did my best to get her in focus, but everything is way too blurry. I also forgot to adjust the white balance beforehand.
IMG_0633.JPG


This last one would have been great if I could have focused on her in the dark. I should have used Live View / zoom to set the focus :(
IMG_0657.JPG


As an aside, I noticed I'm getting a lot of lensflares - most likely from the Hoya 52mm UV filter that they threw in with the lens. I though it was good practice to leave a UV filter on at all times to protect your glass?

Any ideas, tips, suggestions? Here's a direct link to the album if you want to check the EXIF data.

Thanks
 
madFive said:
Well, to brighten up your images, you're going to want to use the widest aperture possible - that's the whole point of owning fast lenses! If you're shooting in low light, try leaving the lens at F/1.8. This isn't going to make focusing any easier, but you'll get better looking images.

The next thing to decide is your shutter speed. If you're hand-holding, you will probably want to keep it to 1/50th-second or faster. As your hand-holding technique improves you may be able to get away with as much as 1/2-second if you’re lucky. If you're using a tripod, shutter speed is not a concern, but then again neither is owning a fast lens - crank down the aperture to F/8 and leave the shutter open as long as it takes.

The last thing you want to tweak is the ISO setting. Once you have your aperture opened up and your shutter at the lowest manageable speed, if you still need more brightness start turning up the ISO. On the T1i, I would personally avoid anything over ISO-800.

Focusing is an art I haven't completely mastered either (does anyone ever?) - I still miss my old-school SLR lens with the half-circles that show you exactly when you have the subject in focus (why did they quit using those anyways??). For auto focus to work, the point you select has to be over something with enough detail for the camera to make the right decision. This process is made quite a bit more difficult by low-light scenes where everything is in low contrast. You should eventually learn to manually focus anyways - might as well start practicing now. :)
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Actually your wrong about f1.8 allowing good images. In fact they are typically very soft with this lens at that aperture. You really need to push it around 2.2-2.8 to get a nice sharp low light shot. That is why you should really bump the ISO up. Try keeping it on 1600 and see what the images look like. Canon has done well with higher iso's in there newer camera's so it might not be that bad. If your ISO is low no matter what aperture you have your shutter speed will always be slow because it will never gather that much light.
 
Personally I'd rather take soft images over blurry or noisy ones, so I would suggest max aperture.
 
So there are a couple issues all coming together. When you crank the ISO, you get noise. When you use a wide aperture, you get lens softness, and the chance for misfocus is higher because of the thinner depth of field. When you have a long shutter speed, you get blur.

Of the 4, there's nothing you can do to fix the photo if it's blurry. You want a high enough shutter speed and/or a still enough camera to freeze what you want to be frozen.

Misfocus is something else that can't really be fixed. If you're focused 3" off your subjects eyes, you don't have a good picture. But, better technique can help you to get more of your shots focused at the right place.

Softness at wide apertures is related to focus, but at a smaller scale. If the lens can't resolve a feature, you can never get it back, but to some degree you can sharpen up images in postprocessing. I'd rather have a soft image than a blurry image, so I usually open up the aperture to gain shutter speed.

Noise is something you get at high ISOs. If you shoot RAW, it's pretty trivial to remove chroma nosie from photos, and you're left with something that looks like film grain. I'd take that over out of focus or blurry shots, so if I'm trying to get an action shot, I won't hesitate to kick up the ISO on my 20D to 1600.
 
You could always upgrade to the 1.4. I found that my copy of the 1.4 focused faster and a lot more reliably than my 1.8.

I recently sold my 1.4 and bought a Tamron 17-50 f/2.8.
 
I think I'm getting the hang of it - and starting to like it a whole lot more.

You can really see the pentagon shaped brokeh in this one. I don't mind it though:
IMG_0754-1.jpg


another low-light snapshot:
IMG_0679.JPG
 
SilverMK3 said:
I think I'm getting the hang of it - and starting to like it a whole lot more.

You can really see the pentagon shaped brokeh in this one. I don't mind it though:


another low-light snapshot:
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I am guessing you shot the first at f1.8. You can tell cause the middle of the apple looks slightly out of focus. This is because the depth of field is razor thin at 1.8 when you deal with something close up and you focused on the side of the apple not the middle. This is why unless you really know what your shooting f1.8 is very difficult to deal with and might not be appropriate for the scene.
 
The main problem I'm having is that the AF really hunts back & forth a lot, sometimes never finding focus at all.
Click to expand...

A trademark of this lens. Another trademark is that you get to drop it EXACTLY once. It is terribly cheap on the inside. If it hits the concrete, shes pretty much a goner.

Sharpest aperture on this lens is somewhere in there about f/3.5-f/5.6.

As for the shot of the clouds/street:

Model: Canon EOS REBEL T1i
ISO: 1600
Exposure: 1/25 sec
Aperture: 1.8
Focal Length: 50mm
Flash Used: No

You would get much cleaner and sharper shot by putting it on a tripod here and using a narrower aperture, around f/8. Of course that means a shutter speed of over a second most likely.

IS would not help this, tis a matter of not enough light. Even L glass would struggle on this one.

Your DOF wide open is so razor thin that nothing is in focus. Maybe you have a bout a foot somewhere in that pic thats actually in focus. f/8 or smaller gives a much more appropriate DOF for this scene. Big issue though, that aperture is like 6 stops down from where you shot it, so your shutter speed would go WAY up. I wouldn't have even tried to get that shot handheld.

Also when shooting handheld - a very good rule of thumb is to not go over your focal length inverted for your shutter speed. So never shoot the nifty fifty >1/50th. That 1/25 that you shot the street scene at was to slow and you picked up camera shake.

IS would not have helped much at this shutter speed. Maybe around 1/100 or faster. Combine that with the super narrow DOF and you have a blurry picture!

Next time bring the tripod and remember these couple things:

Never shoot her slower than 1/50.

f/8-11 or greater for lots of depth (i.e. anywhere the subjects are greater than like 20 feet in depth,
f/4-f/8 for people and backyard type photos
f/1.8-f/4 for still life, single close subjects, and crazy nice bokeh.

If you can't get the picture within those parameters you need to use a tripod combined with mirror lockup and a timer (or a remote release), raise the ISO - (1600 isn't bad and is just about usable on my wifes 50d, so I can't imagine and it doesn't look SO bad on your pics) - but there is simply no way to easily get that street/cloud scene with what ya got.


Here is a link to one of the sharpest pictures I've taken with the 50 f/1.8 - it was done with my 350d (rebel xt), and another to a film picture I took - that shows just how finicky the lens is - The banana shot was taken on kodak gold 400 with a Canon Rebel 2000 - at f/4 1/50. Even then I picked up camera shake (so to speak), you can see how the intended focus is still a bit blurry. If I had shot around 1/100 or 1/150, or put her on a tripod it would have been amazing.

Those with a good eye can find the half of a leaf thats actually in razorsharp focus. And thats at f/4!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dolespics/3298089759/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dolespics/3329200183/


I also forgot to adjust the white balance beforehand.
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Shoot RAW, leave WB on Auto, you can change this in DPP before you generate a .jpg or .tiff. Use DPP for RAW processing, then PS or lightroom as needed. I suggest you leave most PS out of your flow for now and concentrate on the basics of getting it right to begin with before you try and fix it afterwards.

(with a big lcd it's easier, on a rebel xt viewfinder it's impossible.)
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Not impossible, I've got that combo - its doable, just a lot easier on a 50d's liveview.
 
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bobdole369 said:
IS would not have helped much at this shutter speed. Maybe around 1/100 or faster. Combine that with the super narrow DOF and you have a blurry picture!

Next time bring the tripod and remember these couple things:

.
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These statements counterdict themselves. IS is to allow for more of a chance to hand hold when the shutter speed is slow and get rid of the tripod. The problem he is getting is motion blur from the subject not the shaking of the camera. Everything you told him though would make it must harder for him to get such a shot at night. No one shoots f8 at night unless they are shooting still objects or they have a flash. Yes you will have to make some sacrifice with this lens and to do a night shot but that is the game of photography.
 
IS is to allow for more of a chance to hand hold when the shutter speed is slow and get rid of the tripod.
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The above statement is false, here I'll fix it:

IS is to allow for more of a chance to hand hold when the shutter speed is slow.

IS never gets rid of the tripod, it always has a place.

The problem he is getting is motion blur from the subject not the shaking of the camera
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Not in the pictures that I saw. Most seem to be DOF errors and camera shake. Specifically in the night shot is a DOF problem.

Everything you told him though would make it must harder for him to get such a shot at night
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I do have a reason for that. By imposing the limit of shutter speed, and combining it with the limit of aperture - I'm illustrating how the problem is compounded, and basically impossible. In order to get the shot right he needs fast shutter, and narrow aperture, both of which are not going to happen at night.

The only real fix is a flash, a tripod, more light, faster lenses will help - etc.

No one shoots f8 at night unless they are shooting still objects or they have a flash
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Of course not. My whole point was to illustrate that the equipment is insufficient for the task. There is no real way to shoot at night like that and keep it handheld.
 
bobdole369 said:
The above statement is false, here I'll fix it:

IS is to allow for more of a chance to hand hold when the shutter speed is slow.

IS never gets rid of the tripod, it always has a place.
Click to expand...

I never said it would get rid of it completly just enable you to have a better chance of hand holding when your at that border line of tripod and hand holding.


bobdole369 said:
Not in the pictures that I saw. Most seem to be DOF errors and camera shake. Specifically in the night shot is a DOF problem.
Click to expand...

Your right on second look I do agree it mostly seems like camera shakes and dof errors which is something you natuarly have to get used to with a f1.8. Once you learn you can't budge after you focused it gets a little better


bobdole369 said:
I do have a reason for that. By imposing the limit of shutter speed, and combining it with the limit of aperture - I'm illustrating how the problem is compounded, and basically impossible. In order to get the shot right he needs fast shutter, and narrow aperture, both of which are not going to happen at night.

The only real fix is a flash, a tripod, more light, faster lenses will help - etc.
Click to expand...
He wasn't looking for the best way of getting these shots to look prestine which is the options you were giving him. He just wanted to get the shots which might still be possible if he learns techniques to not cause the camera to shake or lose the dof. Since as you said most of the problem wasn't motion it's on all his end to become a tripod.


bobdole369 said:
Of course not. My whole point was to illustrate that the equipment is insufficient for the task. There is no real way to shoot at night like that and keep it handheld.
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No harm in trying now is there?
 
Also to say anything above 3.5 isn't sharp is plain wrong. As long as you know your going to get some Bokeh and know how to use it to your advantage you are in pretty good shape.

Here is an image I took at f2.2 and you can see all the strands in the plants and the hairs in the squirrel

3819946114_bc1c82dc7b_b.jpg


I looked at your photostream and it seems like your technique does not really coincide with this lens. This lens is about Bokeh and a lot of your images don't have that.
 
The Nifty Fifty is an excellent inexpensive lens. Not sure if some one posted this or not but it could be the AF point selection if you have all the points selected and not just the center point that could be the issue and use One Shot for the AF mode not AI Servo. I only use AI Servo and all focus points when I'm trying to capture the dog or the kids running around. Dont get discouraged the more you shoot the better you will get.
 
50 f/1.8 sucks at focusing in low light.

Most basic thing to do to help is make sure your in one-shot and are only using the center AF point.

The best you can do is point the center AF point at an area of high contrast. If the subject your shooting doesn't have such a spot, you can also put the dot on something close by (same distance away), let the camera get focus, then hold '*' to keep that focus and move back to your subject. In general if its dark and your subject is not moving much, since it is so difficult to get focus, once you do hold '*' to stop it from trying to refocus between each shot.

If you want to throw money at problem:

Get the 50mm f/1.4 lense, much better focusing. All around better and not ridiculously expensive.

Get a flash. Even if you don't want to use a flash you can use the flash's AF assist beam to make focusing in the dark easy. If you really never want to use a flash, and don't want a huge thing hanging off your camera just for focusing, its possible to just get the ST-E2 and use it only for the AF assist. Its not ridiculously big. I hear this works pretty well.
 
whoa, zombie thread back from the dead! :p

I agree on the low-light focus hunting thing, I've pretty much given up on using the 50mm f/1.8 in low light without my flash (just upgraded from a 380EX to a 430EX II, huge difference!).

My next purchase was going to be the 17-55mm f/2.8 IS, selling my kit lens and the 'fifty to fund the upgrade. Unfortunately, reality struck and I ended up buying a set of snow tires instead :( Maybe in the Spring...

If I do get another prime, It'll probably be a 100mm Macro. We'll see though.
 
SilverMK3 said:
whoa, zombie thread back from the dead! :p

I agree on the low-light focus hunting thing, I've pretty much given up on using the 50mm f/1.8 in low light without my flash (just upgraded from a 380EX to a 430EX II, huge difference!).

My next purchase was going to be the 17-55mm f/2.8 IS, selling my kit lens and the 'fifty to fund the upgrade. Unfortunately, reality struck and I ended up buying a set of snow tires instead :( Maybe in the Spring...

If I do get another prime, It'll probably be a 100mm Macro. We'll see though.
Click to expand...

I think IS on such a short focal range is a wast of money. Might want to check out the Sigma 17-70mm F2.8-4.5 DC MACRO. Its 1:2.3 macro but from what I've seen it takes great pictures and user reviews are glowing. I'd have one now but I had to pay the state of MA $350. They don't like it much when you go 90 in a 55.
 
Cabn12 said:
I think IS on such a short focal range is a wast of money. Might want to check out the Sigma 17-70mm F2.8-4.5 DC MACRO. Its 1:2.3 macro but from what I've seen it takes great pictures and user reviews are glowing. I'd have one now but I had to pay the state of MA $350. They don't like it much when you go 90 in a 55.
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I looked at that one, but the Canon has a constant f/2.8 aperture and is supposedly one of the sharpest EF-S zoom lenses you can get (from all of the reviews I've read its as sharp or sharper than the 17-40 F4L at f/4). The only issue with it is that it has no weather sealing so it is prone to sucking dust into the inside elements. That and it sells for ~1200 new or ~900 used :(
 
SilverMK3 said:
I looked at that one, but the Canon has a constant f/2.8 aperture and is supposedly one of the sharpest EF-S zoom lenses you can get (from all of the reviews I've read its as sharp or sharper than the 17-40 F4L at f/4). The only issue with it is that it has no weather sealing so it is prone to sucking dust into the inside elements. That and it sells for ~1200 new or ~900 used :(
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Tamron makes a 17-50 f/2.8 in two flavors (with and without IS) that you might want to check out. It's a lot cheaper than the Canon, and almost as good.
 
Canon's 50 1.8 is a great portrait lens, it does have a very narrow depth of field. As long as you are aware of it, you can use it to your advantage. In this pic I was in program mode, no flash, but the subject was intent on a bag of peperoni, so movement was minimized

arfbokeh.jpg


Notice that focus is set on the nose but DOF is already evident at the eyes
 
this lens is probably my favorite lens of all time. I almost always shoot wide open. I love the bokeh. It is small cheap. I think every picture I have posted on hardforum is with the 50mm 1.8.

hell I shot a video with it. http://vimeo.com/7751362?hd=1 <3 the 50 1.8
 
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