Do I really need Z-5500 for gaming?

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MrF

Gawd
Joined
Feb 18, 2009
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707
I do NOT listen to music on the computer.
I DO play games on the computer.

The price difference between Z-5500 and X-540 is significant ($300 versus $90).

I know that for music the difference is worthwhile.
But, is it also for gaming?
I mean if I play a game on both, will I hear a significant difference?
 
Is there any benefit in the digital input if I am only going to use it for gaming?
Can I even use the digital input for gaming? I have an X-Fi sound card. But, can I get 5.1 sound using the digital input?
 
MrF said:
Is there any benefit in the digital input if I am only going to use it for gaming?
Can I even use the digital input for gaming? I have an X-Fi sound card. But, can I get 5.1 sound using the digital input?
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I'd stick with analog, the DACs on the X-Fi are probably better than those of the speakers. I doubt there is a noticeable difference either way.

If you use digital you'll need to enable DDL to get 5.1 sound in games, FYI.
 
I never use high volume. So, I will not be benefiting from the Z-5500 high output power capability.

And, I will not be using its digital capability it seems.

So, it seems I should go for X-540 and save.
 
Just to let you know, from reviews I've read people say the Creative T6100 sounds better than the X-540, and you might find those cheaper.
 
Please do not buy Logitech speakers, they are so bad.

I game on M-Audio AV40's and they are great.

Quoted:
M-Audio AV40, Swan M200MKII, Swan D1080MKII...... etc.

Whatever you do, don't buy anything from Logicrap, Creative or Klipsch.
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'need' z-5500? no in truth nobody really does.

significantly better than the x-540 set? oh hell yes. worth the extra $210? oh hell yes. if you are into audio at all and/or have a good set of ears the z-5500's are worth every penny. out of a dozen or so sets at the local future shop they were the only set i could notice a large improvement in tone range - that just happens to be what my ears/brain likes the most.
 
st4rk said:
Please do not buy Logitech speakers, they are so bad.

I game on M-Audio AV40's and they are great.
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I checked AV40 and it has only 2 speakers.
I am looking for a 5.1 speaker set.
 
THRESHIN said:
out of a dozen or so sets at the local future shop they were the only set i could notice ....
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I like to go check them out for myself too.
But, how can you check out speakers in a loud store?
 
MrF said:
I like to go check them out for myself too.
But, how can you check out speakers in a loud store?
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Some stores have like a special room where they have all kind of speakers to test, but yes, most stores don't. But you can always check a local store and see if they allow refunds within a period of time. You can buy them that way, and take them back if you don't like them.

I myself use the z-5500, and I'm about to replace them after ~2 years of use. I mean, they were cool at first because they were a huge improvement over what I had, but slowly I began to realize I wanted something better. The biggest issue I have is with the bass and the center channel. Since the center uses the same driver as the rest, it sometimes gets hard to hear dialog in action scenes, and turning the volume in the center channel only makes everything out of balance. The subwoofer is loud, it shakes the room, but is missing quality and punch. I'll take a subwoofer that makes me feel like my heart is going to stop when fired up, instead of one that simply shakes everything.

However, the Z-5500 brings way to many features and most appreciate that as their first 5.1 set. If you need Dolby Digital and DTS decoding, ProLogic II for simulated 5.1 from stereo, analog and digital connectors, or a built in amplifier, then the Z-5500 is probably your best choice. If gives you enough features to familiarize yourself with audio before you eventually make the jump to real speakers. I myself am in the process of making the switch. Bookshelf speakers are better, but you need so much equipment to even make them work, that it gets very expensive if you want 5.1.

I recommend the z-5500 at your price range. They have analog connectors for your PC, and digital for your PS3 or Xbox360. Perfect if you are a heavy gamer like you claim.
 
I will be using these speakers as computer speakers only.
So, the speakers will all be a few inches (30 centimeters) from the ears of the user.

Can you tell me why I would need 500W or 700W of power then?

P.S.
Thanks for all the comments. Please kindly provide more. I am not trying to argue with you. I am trying to learn from you. :)
 
J87X said:
oh yeah, and general consensus is these onkyos are much better for the price
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Absolutely, I totally forgot about HTIB. Now days HTIB is actually a better route since it allows way easier upgrade path, and they do seem to sound better. They are cheaper now that a few years ago, since the demand now is on 7.1 TrueHD ones. I'm not saying that specific model is the best one for the money, but it looks pretty good. Onkyo has good reputation.
One thing you need to make sure it has is 5.1 multichannel inputs. Meaning that it has 6 analog RCA plugs for your audio, that way you can connect your PC to the receiver buying a cable such as this one. If you have a non-Creative soundcard then you need another cable, but it looks similar. You need that because not all sound cards support DDL to use the digital connection instead, because without DDL all sounds is gonna come out as Stereo.
 
MrF said:
I will be using these speakers as computer speakers only.
So, the speakers will all be a few inches (30 centimeters) from the ears of the user.

Can you tell me why I would need 500W or 700W of power then?

P.S.
Thanks for all the comments. Please kindly provide more. I am not trying to argue with you. I am trying to learn from you. :)
Click to expand...
I'm sure they are going to be farther away than 30cm, since your arm itself is longer than that. And if what you mean by this, is that you are going to put them in your desk, then remember that you can mount them in a wall as an alternative, or buy speaker stands (stands are kinda expensive nvm).

As far as power, well, nobody cranks their speakers all the way. Remember that the more speakers you have, the more watts you need. In that Onkyo HT-s31100 it says 700w, but that means only 115w per channel, and 125w for the subwoofer, which is not a lot at all, is average. Also, those 115w per channel is at 6 ohms, the watts at 8 ohms is actually 95w. The standard measure is actually 8 ohms, they just show the bigger numbers so people go "WOW".
 
THRESHIN said:
'need' z-5500? no in truth nobody really does.

significantly better than the x-540 set? oh hell yes. worth the extra $210? oh hell yes. if you are into audio at all and/or have a good set of ears the z-5500's are worth every penny. out of a dozen or so sets at the local future shop they were the only set i could notice a large improvement in tone range - that just happens to be what my ears/brain likes the most.
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Bahahahah, this post is amazing.
 
I have speaker stands for the two rear speakers.
The distance between each one of the rear speakers to the user is about 24 inches or 60 centimeters (I was wrong about them being 30cm).

I currently have Logitech Z-640.
The volume is always really low. I don't need more power.

I don't want to buy a Ferrari and only drive it at 40MPH in traffic, which happens to be what I need.
I know that a Ferrari is much better than a Honda Civic.
But, my question is, to remain in this analogy, do I really benefit from the advantages of a Ferrari considering my driving conditions?
 
You basically want speakers for relatively quiet gaming and you are on a budget so to say.
In that case consider getting Logitech X-540 or any Creative inspire 5.1 set. You will be happy with either and both are great value for money. In my experience Creative set is a better deal at the moment. Besides Logitech speakers tend to have very bassy sound which I do not like but some people will like them exactly for the same reason.
)
 
MrF said:
I have speaker stands for the two rear speakers.
The distance between each one of the rear speakers to the user is about 24 inches or 60 centimeters (I was wrong about them being 30cm).

I currently have Logitech Z-640.
The volume is always really low. I don't need more power.

I don't want to buy a Ferrari and only drive it at 40MPH in traffic, which happens to be what I need.
I know that a Ferrari is much better than a Honda Civic.
But, my question is, to remain in this analogy, do I really benefit from the advantages of a Ferrari considering my driving conditions?
Click to expand...
Well, watts needs to be the least of your worries. They just make speakers like that because that's the only way they can make up for what they lack (quality), and still remain cheap. Same deal goes for digital cameras. It's too expensive to put high quality lenses and chips on them, so they make for it by putting tons of mega-pixels. So forget about it, and focus in the quality and price instead.

As far as you having the Logitech Z-640 already, well, I really have no idea how much better another do-it-all set is going to be, but maybe not much at that price range. However, I'm going to recommend again a HTIB instead, so that whenever you feel like upgrading again, like you are now, you don't have to replace everything but only the pieces you want. That's gonna save you money. The Onkyo HT-S3100 looks nice, but feel free to look around. That's my recommendation, since I have the z-5500 myself.
 
I was wondering, for $300 could you get a pair of stereo speakers that have better 3D postitioning/soundstage than the Z-5500?

I tried out the Creative 5.1 system for a week. I tried to position each of the speakers as best as possible, and even though I could hear stuff from the two rear speakers, the detail was so lacking I didn't find that they were any better for gaming than a pair of earbuds. In Left 4 Dead and COD4 I had no competitive advantage, couldn't really pinpoint where stuff was coming from. I found my Swan M10s to actually be better at locating the zombies in L4D. For single player games such as Oblivion with no real need for positional sound there was a HUGE improvement with detail and everything sounding much more realistic. The middle speaker seemed especially useless now, as with a wider sound stage things sound like they're coming from the middle anyway.

So yeah you might want to order the X-540/creatives at wal-mart or somewhere you can take them back if you find it doesn't suit your needs. A lot of people seem to be satisfied with them with all the good reviews, and I thought I would be too having never had experience with high end audio equipment before, but I didn't enjoy them.
 
J87X said:
I was wondering, for $300 could you get a pair of stereo speakers that have better 3D postitioning/soundstage than the Z-5500?
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Yes, very much so. The majority of people in this thread will never believe that though unfortunately. They have all been brainwashed by Logicrap/Creative's marketing departments.

Let me clarify though. 5.1 = awesome. 5.1 from cheap plastic "speakers" with 3" drivers and a subwoofer that wouldn't know what controlled tight, bass was if it got slapped with it, isn't.
 
Go with the AV40s. I messed with the previous Logitech 5.1 system (I think it was the Z5300s?) for about a year. IMHO cheap 5.1 for gaming isn't worth the hassle of finding space for rear speakers, keeping the volume down for family, and issues with Creative's driver. The speakers were sub-par; going from my Bose system (Love them, thanks) for my PS3 to the Logitechs for my PC was really strange. I got a chance to use my friend's AV40s. They sound awesome. Mine are going to double as studio monitors also, I'm without a set.
 
Thanks guys for all the advice.
I went to the store and saw how huge (and heavy) Z-5500 was. Not for me!

There is information in games that are provided specifically for 5.1 channels. Would you not be missing some of the information if you used only 2 speakers?
 
MrF said:
Thanks guys for all the advice.
I went to the store and saw how huge (and heavy) Z-5500 was. Not for me!

There is information in games that are provided specifically for 5.1 channels. Would you not be missing some of the information if you used only 2 speakers?
Click to expand...

Do you mean the satellites are too big? Or the subwoofer and everything as a whole? I doubt you will find speakers much smaller that sound good. AV40's and Swans will be even bigger/heavier. Audioengine A2s are pretty small though.

As for information in games sent to 5.1 channels, instead it will all be sent to the 2 speakers so you wont miss any information, you might want a subwoofer though for deeper bass. I'd say you'd be missing more information (detail) with a cheap 5.1 setup. If you play a lot of online FPSs then 2 speakers wont be amazing for telling exactly where the enemy is around you, but a decent pair of headphones would outperform the Z-5500 in that area.
 
MrF said:
Thanks guys for all the advice.
I went to the store and saw how huge (and heavy) Z-5500 was. Not for me!

There is information in games that are provided specifically for 5.1 channels. Would you not be missing some of the information if you used only 2 speakers?
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure the 5.1 gets downmixed and played as 2.0 if that's all you have... but I think that depends on the game and on your soundcard software.
 
All of the 5500 speakers and the sub are big and heavy for my needs. I do not listen to music on my PC.

I play first person shooter games.
When a missile flies over my head from front to back, I can hear its movement with my 5.1 setup. I don't see how you can experience the same thing with just two speakers.

Also, I can tell clearly if someone is behind me versus in front of me.



To me, this is like a black & white monitor versus a color monitor.
I know that you can have an extremely detailed black & white monitor that can show detail that a color monitor cannot. And I know that the color information may be shown as different shades of gray on the b & w. So, the information is not completely lost.
But, between a b & w and a color monitor of the same price, I would still go for the color even though it may miss some detail.
 
MrF said:
All of the 5500 speakers and the sub are big and heavy for my needs. I do not listen to music on my PC.

I play first person shooter games.
When a missile flies over my head from front to back, I can hear its movement with my 5.1 setup. I don't see how you can experience the same thing with just two speakers.

Also, I can tell clearly if someone is behind me versus in front of me.



To me, this is like a black & white monitor versus a color monitor.
I know that you can have an extremely detailed black & white monitor that can show detail that a color monitor cannot. And I know that the color information may be shown as different shades of gray on the b & w. So, the information is not completely lost.
But, between a b & w and a color monitor of the same price, I would still go for the color even though it may miss some detail.
Click to expand...
Yes, I totally understand you man, I do prefer 5.1, even tho' 2.1 can sound good as well. I love it for music because I can hear the music surrounding me, and not notice where is coming from. And I love it for games and movies, because I like everything to be directional. I know is something some people don't enjoy, and that's why 2.1 still exists, but I personally enjoy surround sound the same as you. End of the day, sound is subjective, and not everyone likes the same things.

Also, I'll comment a little bit on sound positioning. We all only have 2 ears. However, our brain and ears are way more advanced that that and can detect sound in 3D. It does this by measuring time delay and frequency response. We know the position of objects, even if they are at the same distance from the same ear, but at different locations. However, when sound is not in front of you, the brain and ears can make a few mistakes as to where things really are. That's why 2.1 sounds so good, because is in front of you, and is where all the important stuff is.
There are different technologies now and their solo purpose if to trick the brain and ears into thinking things are at specific places. CMSS-3D, Dolby Headphone are some of those. My point is, ultimately, 2.1 and 5.1 can sound as good. Is the technology mature yet, or are the speakers you are gonna buy produce that perfect effect? Maybe, maybe not. I just wanted to point out, that no matter what, your brain is the one that decides. After all, 3d sound is just a trick, we can only estimate.
Check this video:http://revision3.com/systm/dolby/. At around 20:00 is where they talk about this, but feel free to watch it all, since is darn interesting.

As far as the Z-5500 been too big, well, I don't know what to say there. To me they are average, or even small compared to bookshelf speakers, but I have no idea how much space you got to work with. Just know that the smaller the speaker, the harder it gets to produce good quality sound. That's why in some cases, small speakers are more expensive than bigger ones.
 
criccio said:
Yes, very much so. The majority of people in this thread will never believe that though unfortunately. They have all been brainwashed by Logicrap/Creative's marketing departments.

Let me clarify though. 5.1 = awesome. 5.1 from cheap plastic "speakers" with 3" drivers and a subwoofer that wouldn't know what controlled tight, bass was if it got slapped with it, isn't.
Click to expand...

Did you just claim full 3D soundpicture with a stereo source?
 
Odin75 said:
Yes, I totally understand you man, I do prefer 5.1, even tho' 2.1 can sound good as well. I love it for music because I can hear the music surrounding me, and not notice where is coming from. And I love it for games and movies, because I like everything to be directional. I know is something some people don't enjoy, and that's why 2.1 still exists, but I personally enjoy surround sound the same as you. End of the day, sound is subjective, and not everyone likes the same things.

Also, I'll comment a little bit on sound positioning. We all only have 2 ears. However, our brain and ears are way more advanced that that and can detect sound in 3D. It does this by measuring time delay and frequency response. We know the position of objects, even if they are at the same distance from the same ear, but at different locations. However, when sound is not in front of you, the brain and ears can make a few mistakes as to where things really are. That's why 2.1 sounds so good, because is in front of you, and is where all the important stuff is.
There are different technologies now and their solo purpose if to trick the brain and ears into thinking things are at specific places. CMSS-3D, Dolby Headphone are some of those. My point is, ultimately, 2.1 and 5.1 can sound as good. Is the technology mature yet, or are the speakers you are gonna buy produce that perfect effect? Maybe, maybe not. I just wanted to point out, that no matter what, your brain is the one that decides. After all, 3d sound is just a trick, we can only estimate.
Check this video:http://revision3.com/systm/dolby/. At around 20:00 is where they talk about this, but feel free to watch it all, since is darn interesting.

As far as the Z-5500 been too big, well, I don't know what to say there. To me they are average, or even small compared to bookshelf speakers, but I have no idea how much space you got to work with. Just know that the smaller the speaker, the harder it gets to produce good quality sound. That's why in some cases, small speakers are more expensive than bigger ones.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately the shape of the human head and shoulders are not the same for everyone. Our brain and ears are way more advanced that they can detect a slight change in the sound wave caused by the head and shoulders. The problem with simulated 3D sound technologies is that they would work for some people but not for the others. Using a proper surround sound setup would give a better positioning because the sound waves will only be changed slightly by your own body, not by some sort of software algorithm.
 
alg7_munif said:
Unfortunately the shape of the human head and shoulders are not the same for everyone. Our brain and ears are way more advanced that they can detect a slight change in the sound wave caused by the head and shoulders. The problem with simulated 3D sound technologies is that they would work for some people but not for the others. Using a proper surround sound setup would give a better positioning because the sound waves will only be changed slightly by your own body, not by some sort of software algorithm.
Click to expand...
Absolutely.
I'm just saying, when money is an issue, he should know about all his options.
 
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