WHS Build: Best Performance Per Watt Per Operating Dollar

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w0ngbr4d

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I was considering buying a MediaSmart server but I figured I could build a more efficient and capable machine for a comparable price.

As a benchmark for efficiency, I'll be using the power consumption information for the MediaSmart servers found here: http://www.mediasmartserver.net/2009/03/13/power-consumption-ratings-of-the-mediasmart-server/

My goal is to build a machine that consumes less power at idle and load than the MediaSmart servers (if its even possible.)

I did some searching and found this article: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-atom-efficiency,2069-11.html Its a E7200 on a G31 based board consuming 29W at idle and 54 W under load.

I did some searching here and found this thread: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1382865 This outlines a build using an Athlon 4850e.

The big question is, which platform will give me the most performance per watt per operating dollar?

Here are the components I'm looking at:
AMD
4850e ($60)
740G/780G/? based board

Intel
E5200 ($70)
G31/G45/? based board

Power Supply
SeaSonic S12 II SS-380GB 380W ($63)

Hard Drives - 2 x WD Green 1 TB ($105) to start with

I'll add a 2 GB stick of RAM and a case to put it all in.

Any comments or suggestions?

Thanks in advance.
 
My Atom-based WHS with 4x 1TB GP drives and a single 2GB stick is sitting there basically idling @ ~62W, as measured via the meter in the UPS. I do also have a 4 port SATA card in the PCI slot to provide more ports. Plenty of horsepower for my file serving needs.
 
TeedOff said:
My Atom-based WHS with 4x 1TB GP drives and a single 2GB stick is sitting there basically idling @ ~62W, as measured via the meter in the UPS. I do also have a 4 port SATA card in the PCI slot to provide more ports. Plenty of horsepower for my file serving needs.
Click to expand...

I originally looked at an Atom based build but I don't think it hits the performance per watt sweet spot I'm looking for. I'll probably use this machine to do some occasional encoding and I don't think the Atom will perform as well.
 
If your gonna need some performance occasionally for encoding then I would go with the Intel setup because you will get more performance from it than a 4850e.

As for the board.
A G43/45 board would be great.
I like the G4* series because they have the ICH10 Southbridge, and they support up to 16gb of ram, not that you will be using it, but its a solid platform IMO
 
LOL well it really just depends on what you are going for.

I have a Q6600 in mine, but I do a lot of encoding of HD material.
 
The conroe-L uses less power than the 4850e. If memory serves the AMD is 45w and the Conroe-L is 35w.
 
Yea thats right, I made that mistake once and got flamed for it.
 
I've recently worked on three low power server builds. Wolfdales are the best all around for power and efficiency. 45nm > 65nm

Intel DQ45EK in Chenbro ES34069-180w build
With an e8400 c0, 4gb, Chenbro HSF, and the two 60mm case fans:
38.5w with 4 WD10EADS drives spun down, gig-e
50w with 4 spun up but idle (heads parked) drives, gig-e
64w during parity creation, gig-e

With Seasonic S12 430w (almost 80+ bronze)
38w with 4 WD10EADS drives spun down, gig-e
51w with 4 spun up but idle (heads parked) drives, gig-e
64w during parity creation, gig-e

Foxconn G31MX-K with Seasonic S12 430w build
With e5200, 4gb, and stock HSF. No case fans. e5200 uses 1.5w~ less than e8400 due to smaller l2 cache.
39w 4 WD10EADS spun down, gig-e
50w drives idle with heads parked (8 seconds of no activity), gig-e
58w drives idle without heads parked, gig-e
65w drives during parity creation, gig-e

Gigabyte GA-MA780G-UD3H AM2+
With 5050e 1.2v stock, NO COOL & QUIET, 4gb, and Seasonic S12 430w.
47w with onboard audio, serial, parallel, disabled
45w with above + vga clock downclocked to 200mhz from 500mhz
42w with above @ 1.1v - 2600mhz (13x multiplier)
40w with above @ 1.0v - 2000mhz (10x multiplier)
38w with above @ 0.9v - 1600mhz (8x multiplier)
35w with above @ 0.8v - 1000mhz (5x multiplier)
The drives were in use in the mini-itx build so I didn't get to test them.

A G33 board would probably be the most efficient ATX build for Intel chips. It has the lowest northbridge tdp and 3 phase cpu power, which is best for the lowest idle numbers. My $40 rebadged Foxconn has enough expandability for now, so I'm not motivated to try one.
 
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I've got a Zotax mITX board (i630) with an E5200, 4g ram, 1x250g and it sits right around 55w idle, 73w under prime95 load. That's with a Corsair 520w module PSU.
 
The biggest thing you can do is "underclock underclock underclock". If you can crush your CPU speed and FSB without screweing up the frequency of SATA (sometimes they link them), you will see a serious power reduciton. If you take something like a 4850e and cut the FSB/memory in 1/2, it will help a ton with minimal notice on "performance". People are doing WHS with a P3...a 4850 is massive overkill.

Hint...I'm running my CPU/FSB/Memory @ 1/2 speed. Saved me about 10 watts @ idle.
 
Going from DDR2 800 to 400 didn't save a single watt for me with the GA-MA780G-UD3H. Using one double-sided 1gb dimm instead of 2x 2gb was worth a few watts though. I think I have some single sided 512mb 533mhz ram somewhere too. I'll have to try one of those.
 
Trepidati0n said:
People are doing WHS with a P3...a 4850 is massive overkill.
Click to expand...

I have some old hardware lying around...a P3 733 Coppermine on a Tyan board w/ 256 MB of RAM....and a Athlon XP-M 2600+ on a Abit NS7-S w/ 1 GB of RAM.

I know this hardware is powerful enough...but my only concern would be the power consumption of this older hardware compared to a newer setup.
 
Keep in mind that the next release of WHS allegedly will be 64-bit only. This should be factored into your processor selection.
 
sphinx99 said:
Keep in mind that the next release of WHS allegedly will be 64-bit only. This should be factored into your processor selection.
Click to expand...

I found out that the Athlon XP-M I have in this machine is a 45W processor...pretty nice.

http://www.cpu-world.com/CPUs/K7/AMD-Mobile Athlon XP-M 2600+ - AXMG2600FQQ4C.html

Then I read your post...you make a very good point.

To use this XP-M box I would have to buy the following items:
- new power supply (this Antec True 480 is only 68% efficient, plus 2 noisy fans)
- PCI SATA card (this mobo only has 2 SATA ports, might be sufficient for now)
- more memory (only have 512 x 2...old DDR is expensive)

It would be really nice to repurpose this old machine into something useful...instead of having it remain in the closet. But I'd rather not waste the $ on a platform that doesn't really have any future viability.

If I were to build a new machine, here are the components so far:
https://secure.newegg.com/WishList/MySavedWishDetail.aspx?ID=8374694

The only thing I really need to decide on is a case.

Thanks for the advice.
 
w0ngbr4d said:
To use this XP-M box I would have to buy the following items:
- new power supply (this Antec True 480 is only 68% efficient, plus 2 noisy fans)
- PCI SATA card (this mobo only has 2 SATA ports, might be sufficient for now)
- more memory (only have 512 x 2...old DDR is expensive)

......

The only thing I really need to decide on is a case.
Click to expand...
- This PSU is 80Plus certified and is pretty cheap:
$55 - Antec Earthwatts 430W PSU

- If you want the best bang for your buck in terms of expansion ports to costs, I recommend this card:
$100 - SuperMicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 8 Port PCI-Xz (PCI Compatible) SATA Controller Card

- 1GB of RAM is more than enough for WHS or a Linux file server.

- Case wise what exactly are you looking for? Hot-swap bays? cheapness? etc. Just a small recommendation:
$50 - Cooler Master Elite 331 RC-331-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$50 - Cooler Master Elite 335 RC-335-KKN1-GP ATX Case
$290 - NORCO RPC-4020 4U Rackmount Server Case
 
nitrobass24 said:
While it is usually enough, I find it really hard not to recommend 2gb considering how cheap it is.
Click to expand...

If it was DDR2 RAM, I'd recommend 2GB as well, even 4GB if there is cash to burn. However, the OP's XP-M system uses DDR RAM which is significantly more expensive than DDR2 RAM. So in this case, I don't recommend getting 2GB of DDR RAM considering the costs.
 
Running a G31 underclocked E5200, 3ware RAID controller and 8x1TB GreenPower drives ~90W :)
 
w0ngbr4d said:
I was considering buying a MediaSmart server but I figured I could build a more efficient and capable machine for a comparable price.

As a benchmark for efficiency, I'll be using the power consumption information for the MediaSmart servers found here: http://www.mediasmartserver.net/2009/03/13/power-consumption-ratings-of-the-mediasmart-server/

My goal is to build a machine that consumes less power at idle and load than the MediaSmart servers (if its even possible.)

I did some searching and found this article: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/intel-atom-efficiency,2069-11.html Its a E7200 on a G31 based board consuming 29W at idle and 54 W under load.

I did some searching here and found this thread: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1382865 This outlines a build using an Athlon 4850e.

The big question is, which platform will give me the most performance per watt per operating dollar?

Here are the components I'm looking at:
AMD
4850e ($60)
740G/780G/? based board

Intel
E5200 ($70)
G31/G45/? based board

Power Supply
SeaSonic S12 II SS-380GB 380W ($63)

Hard Drives - 2 x WD Green 1 TB ($105) to start with

I'll add a 2 GB stick of RAM and a case to put it all in.

Any comments or suggestions?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

What about the new intel "S" quadcores ? 65W stock in a quadcore! If you underclock(speedstep) this, it might be better than the 4850, although quite a bit more expensive.
 
drgnfang said:
What does the power spike to when the drives are actually in use?
Click to expand...

While all drives are different, a fairly safe rule to assume is 10W idle, 20W writing/reading data, 30W spin-up. While modern SATA drives "ARE" better than this, the numbers are fairly safe unless you are doing something like a 15k SAS drive.

Therefore if you plan on a 20 drive system, you want ~600W PSU on the 12V rail. If you get a card that supports staggered spinnup, then 400W 12V rail would be more than enough. However, since you can get a very nice 750W, 80+ PSU for between $50-$75, it is sorta foolish to do anything less.

Here is the next rub, unless you are doing a true RAID card where all drives are getting hammered, in systems like WHS, the power draw is even lower since reality you shouldn't be hitting all the drives at the same time. It is a nice secondary benefit.

If you do some web searchings on drive reviews, some people actually measure the actual current. Some driver manufacturers for enterprise drives even post it in their datasheet in quite exhausting detail.
 
Yeah, the only time a WHS should be hitting more than one or two drives at a time is when it crunches on the disk balancing late at night.
 
Danny Bui said:
Case wise what exactly are you looking for? Hot-swap bays? cheapness? etc.
Click to expand...

I was looking at getting a backplane for the 5.25 bays, but its not a requirement. I really like that 4U case you posted, but I don't see myself having 20+ drives...would be nice to have the option though.

XS Janus said:
Running a G31 underclocked E5200, 3ware RAID controller and 8x1TB GreenPower drives ~90W :)
Click to expand...

What board are you using? What voltage and speed (fsb & multi) are you running it at? Are you using the stock cooler or are you using passive cooling?

Robstar said:
What about the new intel "S" quadcores ? 65W stock in a quadcore! If you underclock(speedstep) this, it might be better than the 4850, although quite a bit more expensive.
Click to expand...

It would be nice to have for encoding, but like it said it's more expensive.
 
My WHS Box

Intel 5200
MSI P43 Mobo
4 x 1GB DDR2
1 x 120 GB HDD(maxtor)
2 x 1 TB HDD (Seagate)
1 x 1 TB HDD (Hitachi)
1 x 1 TB HDD (Samsung)
2 x 1.5 TB HDD (Seagates)
3 120mm Fans
Antec Earthwatts 430 Watt PSU

Using a Kill-a-Watt meter ~120 Watts @ idle
 
w0ngbr4d said:
I was looking at getting a backplane for the 5.25 bays, but its not a requirement. I really like that 4U case you posted, but I don't see myself having 20+ drives...would be nice to have the option though.
Click to expand...

Just a FYI, the average 5in3 hot-swap bay costs around $100. The Norco case offers 20 hot-swap bays + case + HDD bay for the OS drive + slim optical drive for only $290. The Norco case is a big steal and totally worth the costs.
 
You could call it a Kill-a-watt. It does the same thing.
Each drive is ~4W in idle, controller adds 10W and System alone with a 500GB Green Power drive was ~50W :) (Using a pico PSU it was 40W :D)
The mobo voltages are lowered and so is the cpu vcore and cpu clock.
The whole system uses ~65W in idle, when the RAID disks fall asleep.
I've set the sleep function to 30min in Vista advanced power options. And it works well. Takes abou 10sec to access the files when they sleep. :)
Drive C: remains active, as it is downloading.

I intend to replace the C: drive with a 500GB single platter Seagate because this drive is DYING under downloading and unzipping archives. Also I only get about 30-50MB/s of file transfer to the RAID array. Depending on what's going on the System drive. :)

Ill check the fsb and voltages tomorrow, but I think x6 is the mullty and 0.95v vcore. I remember it not being necessary to run on such a low multy as far as power consumption is concerned. The CPU drops down to x6 while on low usage by itself. So in reality It made no real difference.
The board is the cheapest G31 Giga I could find -EG31M-S2L (used it as my backup/test mobo) used a G43 ND G33 before it and it performed the same while under clocked :) - I fried those however so I got stuck with this one, and srew it now... it works :D
 
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Danny Bui said:
The Norco case is a big steal and totally worth the costs.
Click to expand...

I agree. I think this case will have to be a day 2 item though, costs almost as much as the entire new build.

I think I am going to use the case my XP-M system is in. Its a Chieftec very similar to this case they sell now (http://www.chieftec.com/dg-01sld-u.html but it has 6 3.5" bays.

XS Janus said:
<snip/>
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info!

This is getting pretty close to my final build: http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=8374694

The power supply rating was picked out using this calculator assuming 8 drives, 2 PCI slots filled and 1 stick of DDR2. http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp
 
Other than the modular cables and extra two year warranty, I don't really see the need to get the $75 Seasonic M12II SS-430GM 430W over the $55 Antec Earthwatts 430W PSU. In addition, for $5 more than the Seasonic and with free shipping, you can get the higher wattage/amperage Earthwatts EA650 which has 45A on the +12V rail. More amperage/wattage = closer to optimal efficiency range.
 
Trepidati0n said:
apples and oranges. A supplies power capability and its efficiency can be two totally different things.
Click to expand...

I've a little bit of research on power supplies. I think I'm going to stick with the Seasonic S12II 380W. I found a review of it over at silentpcreview and it seems fairly efficient at low power loads.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article753-page4.html

But then I read this review of a 625 watt enermax Modu82+:

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article806-page5.html

It is actually more efficient than the 380W power supply at lower power loads (21W), but not by much.

There is a $50 rebate on this power supply if I buy it during the month of April, so for a couple more bucks (well 74% more bucks), I could get a power supply that would be pretty future proof for drive expansion.

Thoughts?
 
Call me lazy, but I'd call it diminishing returns and go for whatever's easiest. Trying to go for "The BEST!" will make you broke and unhappy.

Well, that, plus balancing up-front payment versus slow payment (via powerbill) later. Edit: and rebates are NOT discounts, and thus should not factor into any budgeting at all. They are happy accidents if you do get them back -- they're designed to fail you on some point or another during the process. Discounts should be.
 
Trepidati0n said:
apples and oranges. A supplies power capability and its efficiency can be two totally different things.
Click to expand...
Huh?

Ok, what I'm trying to say is that Antec EA650 is just as efficient as the Seasonic PSU that the OP linked to. In fact if you look at the DC loads in the Antec review and the Seasonic review, around the 148W DC usage, the Antec was 80% efficient while the Seasonic was only 82% efficient. At around 378.5 to 382W, the Antec was 84% efficient while the Seasonic was 80.2%.

So that's the point I'm trying to make: The Antec PSU is just as efficient as the Seasonic PSU yet offers siginificantly more power for the money. Meaning that if the OP needs the extra power, he wouldn't need to buy a new PSU.
 
I'm going to go with the S12II 380W for this build. It'll give me enough power for about 8-10 drives, which is plenty for now.

I actually picked up most of the items on sale for this build at MicroCenter today when I went to redeem a coupon in got in the mail for a free 2 GB SD card.

E5200 - 67.99
Gigabyte GA-G31M-ES2L - 59.99
WD 1 TB Green Retail Box - 109.99 (x2)
Windows Home Server PP1 - 99.99
Arctic Silver 5 - 9.99

I figured about $25 + tax more than buying it online...not bad for a B&M store.

I'm going to go order the PSU and RAM from Newegg tonight. I was surprised that MicroCenter didn't have any plain vanilla DDR2-800 memory. I stopped by Best Buy...that was a mistake...they had a 2 GB stick for a whopping $65. That markup is insane.

Thanks for all the advice...I'll post back once I get this machine put together.
 
Nice hardware choices w0ngbr4d. You're killing me by bringing up that Enermax 620w though. I'm in the market for an 80+ unit and its reviews make that series tempting because I'd like to be able to expand up to 20~ drives in a Norco. A friend bought one for his i7 build and it's a great unit. There are a lot of 300-400w choices though, and I'd like to optimize for high 40-60w dc efficiency.

As an update I found the perfect atx motherboard for my low power build, the Supermicro CSBA+II. The G33 chipset is the most efficient consumer one and the three phase regulation is great for an idle cpu. An Intel nic was icing on the cake.

Supermicro CSBA+II, Seasonic S12 430w (not 80+), gig-e plugged in, and no fans:
34w e5200 1gb dimm
35w e5200 2gb dimm
38w e5200 2gb dimm x2
42.5w e5200 4gb and 6 WD10EADS spun down
61w e5200 4gb & 6 WD10EADS spun up and idle
85w e5200 4gb & 6 WD10EADS during parity check
93w peak spike seen. Thanks power up in standby jumpers.
Loading one core adds 14w and both adds 28w.
 
Romir

Since you have such a "beefy" CPU in respect to what WHS needs, you can underclock the memory & FSB and thus realize probably another 5W+ of savings @ idle.
 
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