Finally upgrading from Opty 165..go with 3X 720 or what? please advice

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LGabrielPhoto

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Hi all!
I am finally going to upgrade my main rig.
Its been a great run for this Opty 165 at 2950Mhz but its time to move on. My GTX280 will be happy to get a faster CPU I am sure and I would be happy with the improve speed for encoding and the likes.
In any case, I was almost set on going Intel as I did with my super fast HTPC (e8500 @ 4.2Ghz) but now this Phenom 2 720 came out and got my attention.
It seems to be a monster processor but right now I am confused as some people seem to still recommend the Q6600 for example.
So, for a gaming machine which also does encoding (mostly Bluray ripping to be than encoding to be honest), Sonar 8 sequencing and other video conversions what do you guys recommend?
I will have to buy RAM, Mobo and CPU and I want to remain cheap but OCing is a must for me...as it always is.
I want to get as close to $300 as possible (or even cheaper but thats not likely).
I run XP and Vista 64.
Thanks for the help.
 
shaolin95 said:
Hi all!
I am finally going to upgrade my main rig.
Its been a great run for this Opty 165 at 2950Mhz but its time to move on. My GTX280 will be happy to get a faster CPU I am sure and I would be happy with the improve speed for encoding and the likes.
In any case, I was almost set on going Intel as I did with my super fast HTPC (e8500 @ 4.2Ghz) but now this Phenom 2 720 came out and got my attention.
It seems to be a monster processor but right now I am confused as some people seem to still recommend the Q6600 for example.
So, for a gaming machine which also does encoding (mostly Bluray ripping to be than encoding to be honest), Sonar 8 sequencing and other video conversions what do you guys recommend?
I will have to buy RAM, Mobo and CPU and I want to remain cheap but OCing is a must for me...as it always is.
I want to get as close to $300 as possible (or even cheaper but thats not likely).
I run XP and Vista 64.
Thanks for the help.
Click to expand...

Are you looking to overclock?

Quite honestly.. at encoding tasks the Q6600 would be the best of the two hands down and the same would be true when gaming at the same clocks.

Q6600's reach 3.6GHz on average (I had mine at 4GHz) which is about the same for PII X3s (I've seen many hit 4GHz but most around 3.6 to 3.8GHz).

I'd go Q6600 if I were in your place. Although the AM3 platform has more life ahead of it, it will cost you more (DDR2 vs. DDR3). As the best platform to pair a Q6600 with would likely be the P45 (like the Gigabyte UD series).
 
I saw your thread on here and @ XS.

If you want an extremely powerful rig for cheap I'd get the Gigabyte AM3 790FX, X3 720BE and 4gb of DDR2-1066.

You don't have to go with DDR3 right now. You can get an AM3 board, the 720BE and use cheaper DDR2. In the future if you decide you want DDR3 when it's cheaper you will be able to pop it in because AM3 chips work with both DDR2 and DDR3.

I wouldn't suggest buying an AM2+, or an LGA775 based board right now. Intel has a couple chips coming out and while AM3 CPU's work in AM2+ boards you're stuck with DDR2 and real upgrade path after the full transition to AM3 is up.

I would go with an i7 or an AM3+ Phenom 2 build at this point.

I know you said you were into overclocking and that 720BE is a little fucking monster when it comes to overclocking.

That CPU is a steal for $145.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128377&Tpk=Gigabyte 790FX

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103649&Tpk=Phenom 2 x3 720

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231166
 
ElMoIsEviL said:
Are you looking to overclock?

Quite honestly.. at encoding tasks the Q6600 would be the best of the two hands down and the same would be true when gaming at the same clocks.

Q6600's reach 3.6GHz on average (I had mine at 4GHz) which is about the same for PII X3s (I've seen many hit 4GHz but most around 3.6 to 3.8GHz).

I'd go Q6600 if I were in your place. Although the AM3 platform has more life ahead of it, it will cost you more (DDR2 vs. DDR3). As the best platform to pair a Q6600 with would likely be the P45 (like the Gigabyte UD series).
Click to expand...

Do you have any links comparing them both?

TheBlueChanell,
How about this mobo?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131362
I am leaning towards AMD since I have always liked their CPUs and I am glad to read they are once again competitive but I am not going on Brand name only so thats why I am open to Intel as well.
I havent found info comparing it to the q6600 but ElmosEvil got my attention with his post.
Regards

PS Never mind the mobo question since I just saw your recommendation for AM3 instead. I tend to agree with you there to have more future options.
 
TheBlueChanell said:
I saw your thread on here and @ XS.

If you want an extremely powerful rig for cheap I'd get the Gigabyte AM3 790FX, X3 720BE and 4gb of DDR2-1066.

You don't have to go with DDR3 right now. You can get an AM3 board, the 720BE and use cheaper DDR2. In the future if you decide you want DDR3 when it's cheaper you will be able to pop it in because AM3 chips work with both DDR2 and DDR3.

I know you said you were into overclocking and that 720BE is a little fucking monster when it comes to overclocking.

That CPU is a steal for $145.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128377&Tpk=Gigabyte 790FX

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103649&Tpk=Phenom 2 x3 720

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820231166
Click to expand...

Hmm is that really a good deal though? That CPU doesn't have free shipping so add ~$6 USD more.

Here's the price breakdown and why the Q6600 is the better buy even when using DDR-2.

AMD X3 as quoted by bluechannel:

144.99 + ~5.99 shipping
179.99 + ~8.55 shipping
54.99

= 394.51 + tx

or

Better performance, Quad Core Q6600 cheaper price as I'm suggesting:

196.99 free shipping http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115017
114.99 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128358 + 7.92
54.99

= 374.89 + tx

Q6600 platform paired with arguably the best overclocking board for LGA775 (according to Xtremesystems) comes to $20 less.
 
It really depends on how you look at it. LGA775 is dead. After he gets that Q6600 if he ever wants to upgrade again he's going to have to go to penryn. Why not just go straight to a 45nm Phenom 2, or i7. This is how I look it.


Q6600/P45

Pros: 4 cores, good for overclocking

Cons: 65nm, 8x8 crossfire, dieing socket.

-------------------------------

X3 720BE/790FX

Pros: 45nm, 16x16 Crossfire, Overclocks just as good if not better than Q6600, Solid Upgrade path, Uses less power, DDR2/DDR3

Cons: 3 cores instead of 4.
 
I guess my current case's build in water cooling is also a factor.
I am not sure if it can handle a Q6600 nor if its compatible with the Phenom.
The case is a Gigabyte 3d mercury.
It handles my Opty just fine so thermally the 720 should be no problem but hardware wise I need to make sure its compatible.
 
shaolin95 said:
I guess my current case's build in water cooling is also a factor.
I am not sure if it can handle a Q6600 nor if its compatible with the Phenom.
The case is a Gigabyte 3d mercury.
It handles my Opty just fine so thermally the 720 should be no problem but hardware wise I need to make sure its compatible.
Click to expand...

Well than you need to figure that out than. :D

Basically, you can't go wrong with a Q6600 or a Phenom 2. You're going to be happy with whatever you get. I try to hold as little bias as possible but my absolute honest opinion is that the X3 720BE with an AM3 Motherboard is a wiser choice. You can drop in future CPU's when you feel the need to upgrade, you can use DDR2 or DDR3, it's 45nm, power efficient and an extremely fast, overclockable bang for your buck.

It's just the smarter choice. (no pun intended :p)


Also, if you're looking to spend a bit less of a motherboard you could look into this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128378.

The only big difference is that the 790FXT allows for 16x16 crossfire, and the 790X only allows for 8x8. Which kind of negates one of my pro's/con's from earlier but I still stand by the fact that AM3 is a smarter move if anything soley because you have an upgrade path.
 
So you mean that with that AM3 board I can still use DDR2?
Thats cool if thats what you mean.
 
TheBlueChanell said:
It really depends on how you look at it. LGA775 is dead. After he gets that Q6600 if he ever wants to upgrade again he's going to have to go to penryn. Why not just go straight to a 45nm Phenom 2, or i7. This is how I look it.


Q6600/P45

Pros: 4 cores, good for overclocking

Cons: 65nm, 8x8 crossfire, dieing socket.

-------------------------------

X3 720BE/790FX

Pros: 45nm, 16x16 Crossfire, Overclocks just as good if not better than Q6600, Solid Upgrade path, Uses less power, DDR2/DDR3

Cons: 3 cores instead of 4.
Click to expand...

Both are 95W thermal designs (Q6600 & X3 720BE) the difference is the amount of leakage coming out of the SOI technology from AMD which requires huge amounts of voltage when overclocking. If you overclock the AMD processor will likely take more power than the Q6600 overclocked.

As for 8x8 crossfire.. that's a non issue since we're talking PCI Express 2.0. There is no performance difference between 8x8 and 16x16.

The upgrade path is the only thing the X3 720BE has going for it other than possibly a 100-200MHz higher overclock.

When encoding the Q6600 will crush the 720BE at stock or when both are oc'ed. Gaming, well you won't notice a difference as you're generally video card limited. Thermals should be nearly identical.
 
shaolin95 said:
So you mean that with that AM3 board I can still use DDR2?
Thats cool if thats what you mean.
Click to expand...

Yes, that's exactly what I meant and I agree that is a nice feature.

ElMoIsEviL said:
Both are 95W thermal designs (Q6600 & X3 720BE) the difference is the amount of leakage coming out of the SOI technology from AMD which requires huge amounts of voltage when overclocking. If you overclock the AMD processor will likely take more power than the Q6600 overclocked.
Click to expand...

You obviously don't really know much about AMD cpu's or their 45nm process. I kinda get the vibe that you're just trying to shove this guy towards the blue side. The original batch of Phenom 2's did require some voltage to get up between 3.8-4.2ghz but AMD and Intel use two different processes. It's okay to use 1.5v+ with the Phenom 2, that is something I wouldn't suggest for Intel and their High-K process.

The AM3 Phenoms are looking to be AMD's finest produced silicon. The thread I have listed below is a fine example of that. Alot of X3 720BE users are hitting between 3.2-3.6 with stock voltage.

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=217877

ElMoIsEviL said:
As for 8x8 crossfire.. that's a non issue since we're talking PCI Express 2.0. There is no performance difference between 8x8 and 16x16.
Click to expand...

That depends on him. I ran my 4850's in 8x8 Crossfire with my Q9450 setup and I didn't complain but some people would prefer to have true 16x/16x crossfire.

ElMoIsEviL said:
The upgrade path is the only thing the X3 720BE has going for it other than possibly a 100-200MHz higher overclock.
Click to expand...

The upgrade path is a huge factor in my opinion. He's able to not only upgrade to new processors when they come out but he's also able to migrate over to DDR3 at his own pace.

ElMoIsEviL said:
When encoding the Q6600 will crush the 720BE at stock or when both are oc'ed. Gaming, well you won't notice a difference as you're generally video card limited. Thermals should be nearly identical.
Click to expand...

The Q6600 would have a small upperhand when encoding due to the 4th core but It also depends on your overclock. I would say that gaming on the 720BE is probably faster than the Q6600 @ the same speeds due to L2/L3 Cache Sizes and it being only 3 cores.

You can argue and quote me all day long. You are trying to convince him to go with an Intel setup. I'm just trying to convince him to go with what I feel is the smartest choice wether it be AMD or Intel. In this particular case it happens to be AMD, in the thread below I happily suggested Intel.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1395562 Refer to post #22.

The other thing to keep in mind is that AMD is going to be releasing other AM3 chips. I believe there is a 2.4ghz X4 900 coming out soon. Chew over @ XS had an engineering sample and he was able to take it from 2.4ghz -> 3.7ghz on stock volts. Depending on when you're buying that could also be something to look out for and it's more than likely gonna be cheaper than the Q6600.

If I were buying today I would get the X3 720, if I were ordering in the next month I would see if AMD does release that X4 900. You can't go wrong with either, and best of luck to you.
 
TheBlueChanell said:
It really depends on how you look at it. LGA775 is dead. After he gets that Q6600 if he ever wants to upgrade again he's going to have to go to penryn. Why not just go straight to a 45nm Phenom 2, or i7. This is how I look it.


Q6600/P45

Pros: 4 cores, good for overclocking

Cons: 65nm, 8x8 crossfire, dieing socket.

-------------------------------

X3 720BE/790FX

Pros: 45nm, 16x16 Crossfire, Overclocks just as good if not better than Q6600, Solid Upgrade path, Uses less power, DDR2/DDR3

Cons: 3 cores instead of 4.
Click to expand...

He Can always upgrade to a Q9550 or Q9650, Which is more than enough of a boost from the Q6600 to keep him going for a few good years. LGA775 might not be getting anymore love past 2010, But im sure a Q9550/Q9650 Clocked at 4.2+Ghz would be more than enough.

As for the op, I really do not know what is better, I just finished building a 710 build for one of my little cousins for school and gaming hes getting into (I got him into cod, W00t), I loved the platform, Overclocked decently as well, Clocked it to 3.7Ghz @ 1.55V and runs like a champ.

One thing im wondering since you said you were thinking of going E8400, is if the X3 with one more core is a tad better to a E8400 maxed out, in the meaning of it clocked to 4.0+Ghz under what most consider safe voltages for a 45nm.
 
check benchmarks.

PH2 clocks like a charm, WAY higher than Q6600, easy, buuut, it doesnt mean it will beat it in all test, (4coresvs4cores) but either way.

Both are good choices, but the PH2 is solid for the future, and motherboards are very capable, and rather cheap. :)
There is no need for the ACC functions with PH2, i can post my personal evidence of that, 4.5 ghz on water with an SB600 motherboard.

and btw, my chip totally sucks :'(

And pleaaase, dont say they clock to 4ghz, i dont say a PH2 clocks to 4 ghz on water, cause there is a 1% who dont!

percentage with intel cpu's are a tad higher.(to fail @ 4ghz)

Does the intel platform deliver way better in a certant app you need performance in, there is no question, go intel ;)

btw, my PH2 didnt like 4ghz before now recently, burnin, but still, tried a PH2 that aircools to 4.3 >_<
where my stops at 3.7, there is a big diffrence between chips, and please dont say any cpu is guarantied to go 4ghz, cause there is no chip that does so, every time.

If 300$ is a goal, i doubt you'll find any quads. but at near 300$ what i found was tricore x3 720 790X/SB750 mobo and 4gb pc8500 memory.

Add a little cash, and you get a quad, either from AMD or Intel.
But at near 300, there's no better choice for gaming/encoding than the AMD X3 rig, since E8400 cannot compete with the encoding.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103649&Tpk=X3%20720

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128381

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820227298

Total Price 323,97.

The memory, there is absolutely no point in getting any lower than 5-5-5-15 and 1066 mhz if you dont do serious overclocking, like pro clocking, setting memory to 1066 mhz in bios makes 5-5-5-15 the lowest option avaible.

Hope this helps :)
 
Nice setup there but shouldnt I got with that AM3 mobo listed before even if I buy DDR2 for now just to have more future options?
 
Same thing i was thinking, Im still waiting to see if the little 720 Trick has no consequences, if not i might jump onto a am3 build and check out what the fuzz is about. I built a 710 build for my little cousin and it was decent.

If so, I say, 720, G.Skill DDR1600, Gigabyte UD4P board and call it a day.

Total is $370 without shipping. Under 60 bucks for ddr3 upgrade? Why not :)
 
There was another thread where a similar question came up and you should look at these tests of the AMD Phenom X3 720 compared to the Intel quad Q6600.

http://ixbtlabs.com/articles3/cpu/am...10-920-p2.html

Ixbt uses a quad Q6600 as a reference CPU and tests the AMD Phenom 720 and 810
in a number of benchmarks. In a series of nine media encoding tests (FLAC, LAME, Musepack, Nero Digital, OGG, Canopus Procoder, DivX, Xvid, x264) the Phenom 720
scores 107 versus 100 for the quad Q6600.

The scientific apps like Maple/Mathematica has the Phenom scoring 127 versus the quad Q6600 norm of 100 or 27% faster. This is said to indicate that the floating point units in the Phenoms nearly crushes most of everything offered by Intel.

In series of seven game benchmarks Phenom 720 scores 108. They also try their hand at overclocking and they manage to increase from stock to 3.7+ and even hit 3.9+ ghz.

Overall, at stock speeds the AMD 720 scores at 107 versus the norm of 100 for Intel quad Q6600. When overclocked at 3.7+ Ghz, the Phenom 720 gets close or exceeds the performance of the Intel i7 920 in a number of benchmarks, so it is regarded as a great value for its price.
 
A cheaper $140 Asus AM3 DDR3 mobo with two PCIe slots for Xfire, 1 at 16x and 1 at 8x, but you already have a good NVIDI card so no need to swiitch to ATI for Xfire and the single NVIDIA card you have is very good and well enough by itself:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131366
ASUS M4A78T-E AM3 DDR3 AMD 790GX ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Exclusively designed for latest AM3 CPU w/ DDR3 support. Mobo has eSATA link plus Firewire and USB on the back IO panel, and the Gigabyte boards only have Firewire and USB

I don't think DDR3 RAM sockets will accept DDR2 RAM as I think someone here insinuated, but I may be wrong but I don't think I am:

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Will_Ddr2_memory_work_in_a_ddr3_motherboard
 
You know I was checking the info for the mobo that was suggested (Am3) to combine with DDR2 and I didnt see any compatibility with DDR2 either only DDR3.
Maybe someone else knows about this.
 
Yup, the notches on the DRAM sticks are in different locations, although both DDR2 and DDR3 I do believe each have 240-pins.
 
TheBlueChanell said:
You came out of the wood works. I haven't seen you since the athlon x2 days.

I always assumed they were backwards compatible that's kinda gay. :/
Click to expand...


Ahahaha yeah, I'm sort of passively trying to get back into the scene. Phenom II has potential, it seems. Who knows, you might see me post more.
 
Yep that board only uses DDR3 you can get aboard that will support the AM3 CPU's that uses DDR2 but will have to get new board and ram when going to DDR3.
 
wingmaster said:
Yep that board only uses DDR3 you can get aboard that will support the AM3 CPU's that uses DDR2 but will have to get new board and ram when going to DDR3.
Click to expand...

Ah, than I'd just get 4gb of ddr3 1333 you can get a 4gb kit for like $85 on the egg. It's a shame but DDR3 is cheap @ lower speeds and the prices are still falling.
 
I guess DDR3 it is then.
I am sure this should be a decent jump from my opty 165 dont you think?
 
Lol a jump from my 3800X2 @ 3.0Ghz to E5200 stock made me slap myself silly for waiting too long to upgrade. So im sure this will be the same.

My trustly old 939 setup did last me a very long time, love it to death. Was planning on selling it, but since im upgrading to sata in a few weeks, Why? Just buy a case and psu and there goes a backup comp :cool:
 
shaolin95 said:
I guess DDR3 it is then.
I am sure this should be a decent jump from my opty 165 dont you think?
Click to expand...

It's going to be a huge jump. You skipped 2 generations of AMD chips. Brisbane and Agena. I think you're going to be extremely pleased. I'd like to apologize for giving you misinformation about the DDR2/DDR3 thing but I hope everything else I tried to lay out for you was helpful. Best of luck with the upgrade let us know how you like it. :D
 
I would see how the 4th core activation works out. So far it can't be done with ddr3 boards. If a high percentage of people can get an active 4th core at a decent clock, I would stick with the ddr2 boards and a 720 BE as ram is super cheap ($20 for 4 gb). Then use the xtra cash to buy a decent vid card or 2. Just looked at your original post and saw you already have an OKish video card.
 
I am not really giving much importance to the fourth core unless by some miracle it runs at the same max speed that I get running 3 cores (highly unlikely). I also want to go full AM3 to have more option in the future. :)
BlueChanell, no problem about the DDR2. Thanks for your help.

Regards
 
Guys ...how much you think I could get for my Opty 165 (no HS), 2GB RAM and DFI NF4 (details on my sig)?
 
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