AMD Phenom II X4 Model 940 @ [H]

vile1SoC said:
Does anyone remember the Slot 1/Slot A days of the Thunderbird vs PIII? The Athlon was slower, but could overclock like a demon because the L2 cache ran at half the speed of the core clock, I dont remember Kyle stating "IM NOT RECOMMENDING THIS SHITTY LOSER OF A PART CALLED THUNDERBIRD!!"

I am totally not understanding your logic bro. I read the ENTIRE article, and Im sure your reply will just be a rehash of "RTFA" so whatever man. But seriously...what the hell dude. You are telling me you would not recommend this platform to a guy that wants to build a brand new comp from scratch, and only has about $700? You would rather suggest super expensive Intel chipsets and procs, than a nice budget minded AMD build, that will inevitably come within a few percent of the intel benchmarks? For a fraction of the money?

I dont know what to say man. Im disappointed in your review and you as a smart person to determine what a product is really worth. Maybe you are that rich now, you finally made it dude. You are one of those people that never has to worry about money anymore. Congrats, we'll all get there one day with the amount of work you've done. But I would have thought the end result would have made a better reviewer/person out of you. Money really doesnt make good people I suppose.
Click to expand...
The thing is, you can build a C2Q system for a price comparable to a new Phenom II system, and it will overclock as well or better, and perform better as well. Based on that, there is no compelling reason to purchase a Phenom II unless you already have an AM2+ system. The Q9400 is already cheaper than the 940, and motherboards for both platforms are comparably priced. I don't see how the Phenom II provides any more value than the C2Q in that situation.
Tom128 said:
It's not trivial. Before Tom's took a nosedive they did a good article on it. The difference between 6MB and 12MB is significant. A Q9400 @ 3.2 will not match a QX9770 @ 3.2Ghz.
Click to expand...

Before Tom's took a nosedive? Do you even know when that happened? I'll tell you this: it was well before the Core 2 line was even announced.

Anyway, it's true that in some circumstances, cache does make a big difference. However, for most tasks, it doesn't have that much of an impact, and the performance per clock advantage that the Q9400 has over the Phenom II would certainly more than make up for any drop in performance due to a cache deficiency.
 
vile1SoC said:
Soooo... ok

AMD $659
Sapphire 4870
DFI M2RSH
g.Skill 4GB
Phenom II 920

Intel $789
Sapphire 4870
g.Skill 4GB DDR3
MSI X58 mobo
Core i7 920


Big difference there broski.
And in the meantime, I would like to point everyone to a REAL review of the Phenom II over at XtremeSystems: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=213690
It must be a miracle cuz they actually got the RAM to run at 1066 as well, INCREDIBLE! ;)
Click to expand...


Like I thought, X58 and I7. lol

All this little price list did was make me realize how cheaply I could get a new I7 based system. Thanks. :)
 
vile1SoC said:
Soooo... ok

AMD $659
Sapphire 4870
DFI M2RSH
g.Skill 4GB
Phenom II 920

Intel $789
Sapphire 4870
g.Skill 4GB DDR3
MSI X58 mobo
Core i7 920


Big difference there broski.
And in the meantime, I would like to point everyone to a REAL review of the Phenom II over at XtremeSystems: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=213690
It must be a miracle cuz they actually got the RAM to run at 1066 as well, INCREDIBLE! ;)
Click to expand...

Thank you for proving my point. For a mere $130 additional investment you get:
A system based on DDR3
A system based on a new architechture that will be around for at least another 2 years
A processor that is not only literally cutting edge but can be easily overclocked to the levels of a processor that is $1000

Vs

A processor that barely competes with core 2 Quads
DDR2
A socket that is on it's last legs


Hard choice man.
 
Q6600 - $189
4gb Crucial Ram - $55
Gigabyte Mobo - $115
Sapphire 4870 - $200
Total - $564

With the money saved from not wasting money on a Phenom II DDR2 system (Because an AM3 system will cost just as much as an intel i7 system when it comes out) you can even afford a better graphics card and get better results.
 
XamediX said:
Also, is anyone else confused just a tad when everyone keeps referring to the PhenomII as a PII? Maybe it's because I'm one of the older members that was actually around when the Pentium II was mainstream? But I keep having to remind myself, PII is Phenom II!
Click to expand...

I'm right there with ya man. PII and P2 mean Pentium 2 to me :)
 
vile1SoC said:
Does anyone remember the Slot 1/Slot A days of the Thunderbird vs PIII? The Athlon was slower, but could overclock like a demon because the L2 cache ran at half the speed of the core clock, I dont remember Kyle stating "IM NOT RECOMMENDING THIS SHITTY LOSER OF A PART CALLED THUNDERBIRD!!"

You would rather suggest super expensive Intel chipsets and procs, than a nice budget minded AMD build, that will inevitably come within a few percent of the intel benchmarks? For a fraction of the money?
Click to expand...

1.) The PII has no redeeming quality like "overclocks like a demon."

2.) No, I'm sure Kyle would rather suggest super Intel chipsets and procs that cost the same as the PII, and perform better.

Example: Q8200 for $190
ASUS P5Q for $100. Lots of motherboards to choose from in the ~$100 price range.
Heatpipe cooler for $40 - OC til your face melts. Should easily get to 7x400MHz = 2.8GHz, without breaking a sweat.
 
I too am of the old school mindset that PII and P2 = Pentium II. Perhaps something like PH2 or PHII for Phenom II? (or to be funny PU2/PUII LOL)
 
a combo of phenom II 920 + biostar 790gx is only for $295 from newegg, better choice than Q6600. The board has two real 16x pci-e for CF. X48 is much more exprensive.

stabilep said:
Q6600 - $189
4gb Crucial Ram - $55
Gigabyte Mobo - $115
Sapphire 4870 - $200
Total - $564

With the money saved from not wasting money on a Phenom II DDR2 system (Because an AM3 system will cost just as much as an intel i7 system when it comes out) you can even afford a better graphics card and get better results.
Click to expand...
 
Yea from what I have noticed, the Phenom II are still priced comparably. If you aren't overclocking (which I know most people here do), it's not necessarily a bad deal. But I don't think anyone was expecting something along the lines of the impact the Athlon 64 made.
 
ir0nw0lf said:
I too am of the old school mindset that PII and P2 = Pentium II. Perhaps something like PH2 or PHII for Phenom II? (or to be funny PU2/PUII LOL)
Click to expand...

This has been discussed ad nauseam in other Phenom 2 threads. It's almost like getting into a pissing match between God of War and Gears of War. Both use the same acronym, no one really cares....
 
zaxour said:
This has been discussed ad nauseam in other Phenom 2 threads. It's almost like getting into a pissing match between God of War and Gears of War. Both use the same acronym, no one really cares....
Click to expand...

It's not that serious dude, and your analogy does not work. No one got into a pissing match. I was merely remarking at the extra 3 cycles my brain uses to process when people refer to the Phenom II as PII. That is all.
 
If you see P2 in a PHENOM thread why on earth would you connect that to a chip that was released almost 12 years ago?
 
SevenUp said:
If you see P2 in a PHENOM thread why on earth would you connect that to a chip that was released almost 12 years ago?
Click to expand...

That's part of the amusement. Guess a person's brain is programmed to remember stuff in funny ways sometimes. I know its not just me but like I said, maybe you weren't around when the PII was mainstream and for all the years after that when people referred to it like so till just this year when Phenom II news hit.
 
XamediX said:
That's part of the amusement. Guess a person's brain is programmed to remember stuff in funny ways sometimes. I know its not just me but like I said, maybe you weren't around when the PII was mainstream and for all the years after that when people referred to it like so till just this year when Phenom II news hit.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I was thinking along the lines of "that pentium II chip must have had some kind of insane overclock on it." :p
 
XamediX said:
It's not that serious dude, and your analogy does not work. No one got into a pissing match. I was merely remarking at the extra 3 cycles my brain uses to process when people refer to the Phenom II as PII. That is all.
Click to expand...

This almost defeats the nature of my response, but it was just meant to try to curtail the "p2 = pentium 2!!!!!" slippery slope from happening :p
 
I have a question.

Would it ever be wise for me to just buy the Phenom II chip and just drop it in my box as is. With a zaleman cooler already in there and everything?

OR

Should I spend the extra money switching my mobo, and processor for Intel?


For me. I am just thinking $270 will get me good performance for atleast 1.5 years (Q2,2010).
I have been riding on this x64 6000+ since the beginning.

As I said, I am just looking to hold out for atleast 1 more year before I re do everything.
 
SevenUp said:
If you see P2 in a PHENOM thread why on earth would you connect that to a chip that was released almost 12 years ago?
Click to expand...


I do it too. Old geeks die [H]ard. Shit, I just made up the next tshirt!
 
Ron FTL said:
I have a question.

Would it ever be wise for me to just buy the Phenom II chip and just drop it in my box as is. With a zaleman cooler already in there and everything?

OR

Should I spend the extra money switching my mobo, and processor for Intel?


For me. I am just thinking $270 will get me good performance for atleast 1.5 years (Q2,2010).
I have been riding on this x64 6000+ since the beginning.

As I said, I am just looking to hold out for atleast 1 more year before I re do everything.
Click to expand...

I think that would be a good plan. You will get a good perf bump at minimal cost.
 
Well just few points my 2 cents on this take, Kyle points out this cpu is slow, so for his respective group a speed and more speed players, his remarks to it not being good 4 that are true.

Interesting side note though "dam Arabs" comment, that does sound a bit off, as calling a investment group regardless of where in the world they happens to come from does sound a bit racist. As where in any investment group to a company does their race have to do with R&D CPU development, Do you have statistics stating why only Arabs investing = them being called dam Arabs, or the many other investors in AMD to which the funding happens, did not mention those names, so only one of the bigger investors to a company gets called "dam Arab" why not every other AMD investor in the company, that is also dependant on the R&D of this junk you refer to " they contributed to it as well, I doubt the single Arab investments made any difference to the CPU design, it only helped fund it, not "Design" which is the JUNK part you are referring to, its not as fast as other competition. That’s the (un - or ) biased point some people are referring to.

And added note its not AMD as a total company to blame at this point, the real blame is within its top dog (well he did step down some months back, but this was all pre planned bargaining for him from a year ago) "Hector Ruiz, President and CEO, AMD"

Did you read article what this man did with AMD as a company, AMD is (was a good company) but his actions, sad day for all computer persons, we only have Intel left after this latest deal he did goes through.

He SPLIT AMD - now AMD will have its hardware OEM made though its manufacturing silicon the fab plants = Hector, the left over AMD – the turn to which kyle referring to. as a separate company to which hector will be running (not surprisingly he will move their )and leave AMD, which will be a front marketing company, with no hardware manufacturing, they will OEM it through contract to the new spilt company, so when AMD falls, Hector knows this, his company will just pick up and manufacture other companies stuff out of those fab plants he will be running, and AMD will be drop kicked to the curb soon, with no fabs no money, to future fund things. Intel has both and maintains both, AMD does as well for now, once the spilt occurs - AMD will be a simple OEM CPU player, that wont have extended ( more the a couple more years) to keep not just with Intel to be in business all together.

AMD fault ( yes but blame the CEO - not the designers as they are only employee( as your same quote about the marketing folks prettying up a turd, How many CPU designers are their in the world , actual human that has the talent to build a CPU, id say a couple dozen or so at best, those few are already at Intel, AMD, IBM, Motorola.

Hector Ruiz is leaving AMD, gee we can’t figure out why >? Lol, he’s screwing the boat and jumping ship, that guy is “THE REAL TURD” in hiding, playing politics(and cash for his wallet) and knows to turn split company which he will run and move to new name not amd, and leave amd to pay him to make new cpus since he will be running the fab plants? That’s not a coincidence at all.
 
Wow, this is indeed very disappointing. I was wondering if this would take me back to AMD but I guess my next upgrade will definately by a Core i7 path.
 
alg7_munif said:
Can anyone suggest me a better rig for 1080P gaming than this system here:

Biostar TA790GX + PII 940 BE $335
8GB G.Skill DDR2 1066 $45
HD 4850 X2 2GB $300
WD 640GB Black $80
Tuniq Tower 120 $54
Corsair 750TX $105

Total $964 without a case.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I can:

Q9400 $270
P5Q Pro $100 AR
4GB G.Skill DDR2 1066 $90
2x ASUS Radeon HD4850 $250 AR
WD 640GB Black $80
Xigmatek HDT-S1283 $37
BFG LS-550 $55 AR

$837 after rebates. And if you want to ignore all the components aside from the CPU and motherboard, this combo costs only $35 more than the Phenom II setup and will perform better when overclocked.
 
Zero82z said:
Yeah, I can:

Q9400 $270
P5Q Pro $100 AR
4GB G.Skill DDR2 1066 $90
2x ASUS Radeon HD4850 $250 AR
WD 640GB Black $80
Xigmatek HDT-S1283 $37
BFG LS-550 $55 AR

$882 after rebates. And if you want to ignore all the components aside from the CPU and motherboard, this combo costs only $35 more than the Phenom II setup and will perform better when overclocked.
Click to expand...

seriously, how can you say a 9400 performs better then a 940? do you have any actual data supporting that? by default its 300+ Mhz slower, that system has half the ram, weaker psu, 2 cards instead of 1 that performs the same, cheaper heatsink.
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
seriously, how can you say a 9400 performs better then a 940? do you have any actual data supporting that? by default its 300+ Mhz slower, that system has half the ram, weaker psu, 2 cards instead of 1 that performs the same, cheaper heatsink.
Click to expand...

Thanks for not reading the part where I said it's faster when overclocked. Clock for clock, Yorkfields are faster. With the parts I selected, a Q9400 will do 3.8GHz easily, and probably 4GHz. At best, a 940 will hit the same frequencies, so it'll be slower than the Q9400. And the heatsink I selected may be cheaper, but it also cools better than the Tuniq Tower. The weaker PSU and set of two cards were selected due to cost. A 750W PSU is overkill for these components, so a cheaper 550W unit will do, and the two 4850s cost $50 less combined compared to the X2, and will perform the same. I also picked 4GB instead of 8GB, since 8GB is useless for gaming and adds to the cost unnecessarily.
 
Zero82z said:
Thanks for not reading the part where I said it's faster when overclocked. Clock for clock, Yorkfields are faster. With the parts I selected, a Q9400 will do 3.8GHz easily, and probably 4GHz. At best, a 940 will hit the same frequencies, so it'll be slower than the Q9400. And the heatsink I selected may be cheaper, but it also cools better than the Tuniq Tower. The weaker PSU and set of two cards were selected due to cost. A 750W PSU is overkill for these components, so a cheaper 550W unit will do, and the two 4850s cost $50 less combined compared to the X2, and will perform the same. I also picked 4GB instead of 8GB, since 8GB is useless for gaming and adds to the cost unnecessarily.
Click to expand...

I highly doubt that in the system there, you're going to get anywhere close to 3.8-4ghz out of a Q9400

a Q9400 has an FSB of 333/1333 already, now you listed 4GB of ram 2x2gb, say you went with an actual 4x2gb setup like in the post you were comparing it to since 8GB is not as useless as you seem to think, you're not going to get much over 4-420fsb which will limit the Q9400 to 3.20-3.4Ghz.

I've had both a P5Q Pro and P5Q-e
with all 4 ram slots populated, I Can't get my Q6600 much past low 400fsb where as with 2 sticks, I can get it closer to 500

and if you plan on comparing prices then compare it properly
#1 you should reduce the ram on the AMD system
#2 psu
#3 heatsink
#4 Video card
 
Zero82z said:
Yeah, I can:

Q9400 $270
P5Q Pro $100 AR
4GB G.Skill DDR2 1066 $90
2x ASUS Radeon HD4850 $250 AR
WD 640GB Black $80
Xigmatek HDT-S1283 $37
BFG LS-550 $55 AR

$837 after rebates. And if you want to ignore all the components aside from the CPU and motherboard, this combo costs only $35 more than the Phenom II setup and will perform better when overclocked.
Click to expand...

Thanks, nice PSU and cooler but I rather add $50 more for the 2GB HD 4850 X2 because I think that at 1080P, 512 MB VRAM per GPU is not enough. I'm aiming for 3.6GHz~3.8GHz OC on the PII 940. For the Q9400 to reach the same clock speed, I need at least 450FSB while I can just play around with the multiplier on the PII. I really hope that an unlocked AM3 PII will be out soon. At least with the AM3 PII, I'll have an upgrade path in the future.

Now beat this:
Biostar TA790GX + PII 940 BE $335
8GB G.Skill DDR2 1066 $90
HD 4850 X2 2GB $300
WD 640GB Black $80
Xigmatek HDT-S1283 $37
BFG LS-550 $55 AR

Total $897 AR.

Edit: Btw I think your total should be $882 or maybe you mean that the RAM is $45 for 4GB? I can get double the RAM for only $45 more.
 
alg7_munif said:
Except that S775 is a dead end. PII still have a life in it but I would at least wait for the AM3 PII.
Click to expand...

Their still gonna produce 775 chips til 2010 if i recall correctly, so its not dead. Even then, when they do not produce anymore, the chips will go down to compete with higher performing chips, until later on going back up due to rarity, kinda like 939 is now. Meaning prices of fx-60 and such, which to 775 is long ways away before that happends like i said.

Lga 775 still offers upgradeabiltiy to those still on dual cores, meaning the Q6600 (which is being stopped early this year if i recall). The whole Q9000 series. It will be some time before i replace my Q9550 and even then i will not until overclocking it past what i have it now is not enough to keep up. Which will be a very long time.

Like i said in the first paragraph, prices will go down to compete with phenom 2 (there is nothing to compete with imo), not in i7, but in the c2q. Which will really put the phenom 2 in a tight corner, it does indeed give am2 board users a thing to upgrade to, but they would not have to worry about that if they would of went with whats the best bang for the buck :cool:

Also its amazing in 6 hours the thread grew 4+ pages :eek:
 
alg7_munif said:
Thanks, nice PSU and cooler but I rather add $50 more for the 2GB HD 4850 X2 because I think that at 1080P, 512 MB VRAM per GPU is not enough. I'm aiming for 3.6GHz~3.8GHz OC on the PII 940. For the Q9400 to reach the same clock speed, I need at least 450FSB while I can just play around with the multiplier on the PII. I really hope that an unlocked AM3 PII will be out soon. At least with the AM3 PII, I'll have an upgrade path in the future.

Now beat this:
Biostar TA790GX + PII 940 BE $335
8GB G.Skill DDR2 1066 $90
HD 4850 X2 2GB $300
WD 640GB Black $80
Xigmatek HDT-S1283 $37
BFG LS-550 $55 AR

Total $897 AR.
Click to expand...

off topic a bit but go with a GTX280, gets rid of scaling issues =)
 
Zero82z said:
Thanks for not reading the part where I said it's faster when overclocked. Clock for clock, Yorkfields are faster. With the parts I selected, a Q9400 will do 3.8GHz easily, and probably 4GHz. At best, a 940 will hit the same frequencies, so it'll be slower than the Q9400. And the heatsink I selected may be cheaper, but it also cools better than the Tuniq Tower. The weaker PSU and set of two cards were selected due to cost. A 750W PSU is overkill for these components, so a cheaper 550W unit will do, and the two 4850s cost $50 less combined compared to the X2, and will perform the same. I also picked 4GB instead of 8GB, since 8GB is useless for gaming and adds to the cost unnecessarily.
Click to expand...

I am not so sure that I would trust a 550W PSU to run an overclocked quad core Crossfire gaming system. Maybe the specs on the BFG are really good but I ran into PSU problems running a quad core SLI systems with a 580W Hiper R PSU at stock clock speeds on both the cards and CPU. Once I changed the PSU out for a OCZ 700W the problems cleared up and I took the Q6600 to 3.2 and overclocked both EVGA 8800GTs.
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
I highly doubt that in the system there, you're going to get anywhere close to 3.8-4ghz out of a Q9400
Click to expand...
Well, you're wrong. To get 3.8GHz out of a Q9400, you need only 475MHz on the FSB, which is easily doable on a P5Q Pro. Mine does it easily when I reduce the multiplier of my Q9550. Plus, the current Q9400 stepping is equivalent to the E0 stepping for Q9550s and Q9650s, which do 4GHz quite easily in most cases.
Digital Viper-X- said:
8GB is not as useless as you seem to think
Click to expand...
It is for gaming.
Digital Viper-X- said:
and if you plan on comparing prices then compare it properly
#1 you should reduce the ram on the AMD system
#2 psu
#3 heatsink
#4 Video card
Click to expand...
I was comparing the price to the system configured by the previous poster. I could not alter his configuration since it was his.
 
KOOLTIME said:
Interesting side note though "dam Arabs" comment, that does sound a bit off, as calling a investment group regardless of where in the world they happens to come from does sound a bit racist. As where in any investment group to a company does their race have to do with R&D CPU development, Do you have statistics stating why only Arabs investing = them being called dam Arabs, or the many other investors in AMD to which the funding happens, did not mention those names, so only one of the bigger investors to a company gets called "dam Arab" why not every other AMD investor in the company, that is also dependant on the R&D of this junk you refer to " they contributed to it as well, I doubt the single Arab investments made any difference to the CPU design, it only helped fund it, not "Design" which is the JUNK part you are referring to, its not as fast as other competition. That’s the (un - or ) biased point some people are referring to.
Click to expand...

I did not know that Arabs were a race but rather a reference to a persons roots. I don't think I get my panties in a wad when someone calls me a Texan.

An Arab (Arabic: عربي‎, ʿarabi) is a person who identifies as such on linguistic or cultural grounds.[8][9] The plural form, Arabs (العرب al-ʿarab), refers to the cultural group at large.
Click to expand...

Any way you slice it, you knew exactly what group I was talking about so I guess I picked my words exactly right.
 
RAMPAGEOH said:
I am not so sure that I would trust a 550W PSU to run an overclocked quad core Crossfire gaming system. Maybe the specs on the BFG are really good but I ran into PSU problems running a quad core SLI systems with a 580W Hiper R PSU at stock clock speeds on both the cards and CPU. Once I changed the PSU out for a OCZ 700W the problems cleared up and I took the Q6600 to 3.2 and overclocked both EVGA 8800GTs.
Click to expand...

I would trust such a system to a good 550W PSU. Your Hiper 580W PSU was not very good. However, this BFG is more than capable of handling a rig with two 4850s.
alg7_munif said:
Edit: Btw I think your total should be $882.
Click to expand...

My configuration used only 4GB of RAM.
 
Zero82z said:
Well, you're wrong. To get 3.8GHz out of a Q9400, you need only 475MHz on the FSB, which is easily doable on a P5Q Pro. Mine does it easily when I reduce the multiplier of my Q9550. Plus, the current Q9400 stepping is equivalent to the E0 stepping for Q9550s and Q9650s, which do 4GHz quite easily in most cases.

It is for gaming.

I was comparing the price to the system configured by the previous poster. I could not alter his configuration since it was his.
Click to expand...

It's not about the stepping, it's about the FSB which is limited once you use 4 sticks of ram. I do mostly gaming and media center on my pc, and my usage regularly goes up over 4GB. Just because you don't use 8GB doesn't mean other people don't want to.

and just because his system wont use 550W doesn't mean he should get a 550W PSU, you're overclocking a quad core cpu to over 3.2ghz, right away you're going to up your power usage, and he has an x2, or 2 graphics cards that are going to be using ~100w each, at full load his system could be close to 400-450w I Wouldn't use a 550W psu on a system that loads that high. a 650-750W PSU would be better suited for his system.
 
Digital Viper-X- said:
It's not about the stepping, it's about the FSB which is limited once you use 4 sticks of ram. I do mostly gaming and media center on my pc, and my usage regularly goes up over 4GB. Just because you don't use 8GB doesn't mean other people don't want to.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to argue this any further, since it's a waste of time. Show me some benchmarks where a system with 8GB performs better in games than with 4GB. Otherwise, I stand by my argument.
 
wow what a load of BS, this is the worst review i have ever read. whoever wrote this obviously hates AMD and anything they release or get paid too much by Intel, this was the most right sided review i have read, AMD being crap no matter what in their eyes.

you fail H
 
Zero82z said:
I'm not going to argue this any further, since it's a waste of time. Show me some benchmarks where a system with 8GB performs better in games than with 4GB. Otherwise, I stand by my argument.
Click to expand...

It's only $45 more, I'm sure that it will be used later if not now. If you look at the trend, RAM and hard disk usage are increasing rapidly. A few years back, people talked about upgrading 512MB RAM to 1GB RAM but today adding another 512MB RAM won't make a difference unless it is a netbook.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top