Should You Buy Blu-ray?

I put a BD reader in my HTPC a couple weeks ago. I was impatient, so I went to Best Buy and paid $120 instead of ordering the $90 one from Newegg. I have a 60" Pioneer Kuro plasma and I can definitely tell the difference between upconverted DVD video and a well done BluRay. The studios bear a lot of the blame for the slow adoption rate of HD disc formats. Shovel crap onto a different disc, and it's not going to generate demand. Put the time and care into the HD transfer, and people will notice. Sony and the BD consortium also get a lot of the blame. Their licensing fees are prohibitively expensive. The DRM blows. I really hoped HD DVD would win out, but we got stuck with BluRay. I decided to move on and enjoy HD movies.

This Horowitz guy who wrote the article is a nincompoop. Complaining about black bars on a widescreen format!?!?! If you are watching on a 4:3 TV, then no, do NOT buy BluRay. It will be much more beneficial to buy a large 1080P display first. Might as well complain that a GTX280 or a 4870 X2 are a minimal improvement over your old 6800 when you are still running a sub 2 GHz single core chip.

I don't have an A/V system that will utilize the new lossless DTS and Dolby surround formats (at least not without resorting to 5.1 analog connections), so I can't comment on that yet. Hopefully Asus will get things right on their new revision of the Xonar HDMI sound card. Regardless, if you don't have a system that will show the difference between standard DVD and BluRay, put the $ into system upgrades first. Then you'll appreciate HD.
 
john doe 182 said:
Right now Bluray is suffering from what DVD did back when it first started catching on. Alot of movies are being released on bluray that are nothing more the DVD upconverts and people are getting ripped off. There are already 2 versions of Fifth Element. people complained about the crappy original version.

I don't see downloading to be feasable at all. I have yet to download anything at a streamable size that looks as good as over the air HD broadcast. OTA 1080i TV is about 7gigs for an hour of TV. I don't know anyone that can download 7 gigs in an hour. Ever Bluray disk I have put in my PC has come up with over 40gigs on it. You can compress video but it will look like compressed video.
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Compressed video doesn't mean lossy video. BD disks are left as uncompressed as possible to reduce the hardware requirements to decode them, they're also loaded with extras. 7GB/hour is less then 16Mbit. That's less then all but the lowest Fios tier, and also offered in many cities. Futhermore, the US only represents around a third of the world's high Per-capita GDP. Most of the remaining countries have access to these speeds at reasonable prices.

It might not be widespread in the US, but it is in most places. The crumbling economy will put a dent in high-speed adoption for sure, but it will also put a dent in BD adoption. I simply don't see BD reaching anywhere near the popularity of DVD. In the short run they have DVD and a recession to battle in the US, in the long run they have a rapidly growning high-speed internet growth, and solid-state media.

Beyond all this. Why does it need to stream? You don't receive your BD the instant you decide you want a copy of it. You have to go get a copy from the store or order online, so why would downloading have to be instant to compete? Assuming you would think ahead to buy the disk, but wouldn't think ahead to download the movie is faulty. HDDs are cheaper per GB then Blu-Ray disks, faster, and can be rewritten at will.
 
Subscription Based Digital Downloads are the future...services like Netflix with lots of readily available movies for streaming. They aren't really ready yet since they still don't offer new movies for instant download. Once they do that they will take over.

A regular movie purchase will remain in physical form. For movies I want to watch I either want to have a physcial copy I can take anywhere and do with what I want (such as rip it to other formats of my choosing, which is why I still love DVD) or a library of movies I can stream at will in exchange for a small subscription fee.

Does that mean all my physical form purchases will be Bluray since I have a PS3? No I simply don't see the reason to watch non-action movies in HD...it's less about the visuals and more about the story or comedy. For those movies I still buy them on DVD. I only get stuff like action blockbusters in HD....stuff that is all about the visuals and the action.

I only just started my Bluray collection since I got my PS3 recently (less than a month ago)...but I don't play to expand it much because of the price of Bluray. I have a decent sized HD-DVD collection that I built up over the summer...solely due to the price of those HD movies. I bought a cheap 360 HD-DVD player and picked up a bunch of movies, most for less than $10 each. Compare that to the Bluray collection...I bought like 8 HD-DVD movies for the same price as 3 Bluray movies. Bluray is a premium you have to pay now to get HD...right now it just isn't worth it for a lot of movies. HD-DVD (though at this point I have most of the movies that were made in HD-DVD that I actually want in HD) if it was made in that time...otherwise DVD is good enough.

My dad, on the other hand, is like the perfect customer for Sony...he has a nice big HDTV along with a Bluray player...and can't stand to watch SD anymore...if he can get it in HD he will pay the premium...so Bluray it is for him. I don't think he's bought a DVD in like 6 months. He has no stand alone digital download device yet.
 
and Streaming is important for digital downloads because it puts it in the same realm as on demand cable or satellite. You get the desire to watch a certain movie...having it readily available via digital download streaming where you can watch it instantly puts it above Bluray and any other physical formats. It puts digital download on the instant gratification bandwagon...which can be quite profitable for the companies doing it...and make it very difficult for Bluray and other physical media to compete.
 
Thor79 said:
and Streaming is important for digital downloads because it puts it in the same realm as on demand cable or satellite. You get the desire to watch a certain movie...having it readily available via digital download streaming where you can watch it instantly puts it above Bluray and any other physical formats. It puts digital download on the instant gratification bandwagon...which can be quite profitable for the companies doing it...and make it very difficult for Bluray and other physical media to compete.
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I agree, streaming is ideal, but non-streaming is already in the same category at BD. People were acting as if you required streaming video to compete, where in reality streaming video is a steap above BD.
 
this is just stupid, blu-ray looks much better than upscaled DVDs.
physical medias are not dissapering anytime soon, high speed internet is not available everywhere worldwide, and people will like to have a hardcopy of their movies same.

again people that are saying blu-ray is not a big improvement over DVDs are blind and deaf, or they simply don't have the apropriate equipments.
 
Wow that excerpt is awful. Anyone who knows home theaters in the slightest knows that just because your set is "1080P" and you have a dvd player with a HDMI cable, doesn't make high-def content superfluous--my BD-P2550 makes my SD-DVDs look damn good, all due to the Reon; certain Blu-Ray discs that meet the videophile's cut look better than any broadcast/downloadable HD content. Wow. That guy/girl is the type that cannot see a 60hz flicker on a CRT or the horizontal lines approximately every third on a Sony CRT. No credibility whatsoever. They need to attend some schooling at Bjorn's Audio Video in San Antonio, TX.
 
Jon8RFC said:
Wow that excerpt is awful. Anyone who knows home theaters in the slightest knows that just because your set is "1080P" and you have a dvd player with a HDMI cable, doesn't make high-def content superfluous--my BD-P2550 makes my SD-DVDs look damn good, all due to the Reon; certain Blu-Ray discs that meet the videophile's cut look better than any broadcast/downloadable HD content. Wow. That guy/girl is the type that cannot see a 60hz flicker on a CRT or the horizontal lines approximately every third on a Sony CRT. No credibility whatsoever. They need to attend some schooling at Bjorn's Audio Video in San Antonio, TX.
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Oh yeah, let alone seeing rainbows on LED DLPs and the LaserVue, and what I call the jigsaw-effect of every 960x1080 single-chip DLP RPTV.
 
The biggest factor is your viewing distance to screen width ratio. The closer you are relative to the screen size, the more benefit you see in BD vs. DVD. Among other factors, this creates a lot of the dispute in whether there is a significant benefit.

I can see a huge difference in DVD vs. BD even on my 720p display. But my 720p display happens to be a 130" screen using a 720p front projector that I only sit 10-15' away from.

OTOH, I can see very little difference on my 51" HDTV sitting 10' away.
 
jfreund said:
I put a BD reader in my HTPC a couple weeks ago. I was impatient, so I went to Best Buy and paid $120 instead of ordering the $90 one from Newegg. I have a 60" Pioneer Kuro plasma and I can definitely tell the difference between upconverted DVD video and a well done BluRay. The studios bear a lot of the blame for the slow adoption rate of HD disc formats. Shovel crap onto a different disc, and it's not going to generate demand. Put the time and care into the HD transfer, and people will notice.
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This.

Garbage in, garbage out. The quality of the source is everything. What Blu Ray gives us is the absolute highest possible ceiling for quality right now.
 
I wonder just how many of these people who claim they can't see any differnece are actually sitting at the proper distance for viewing. Amaxing how close you are actually supposed to sit in re the size of your 1080P screen. For example with a 40 inch diagnoal screen, which is a popular size, you actually have to sit no more than 6 feet from the screen to get the proper effect. That is one standard couch length.

To the inch (PDF file) http://hdguru.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/hdtv_distance_chart.pdf

Graphical chart http://www.carltonbale.com/2006/11/1080p-does-matter/
 
qdemn7 said:
I wonder just how many of these people who claim they can't see any differnece are actually sitting at the proper distance for viewing. Amaxing how close you are actually supposed to sit in re the size of your 1080P screen. For example with a 40 inch diagnoal screen, which is a popular size, you actually have to sit no more than 6 feet from the screen to get the proper effect. That is one standard couch length.
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I think it goes beyond that. Many of these are the same people that talk about the awesome Samsung 22" LCD they got at Best Buy for $300, which in fact has rotten viewing angles, uneven illumination, and ridiculous color banding and dithering. But it must be good because its bright, cheap, and the sticker on the front says 2ms response time!

Some people just don't know, or don't care about the difference between a good looking image or a bad looking one.
 
Sound is one of the most powerful reasons to upgrade to BluRay. If you are still using the two crappy speakers built into the TV, then I suggest sticking with VCR...even DVD will not improve things much, sound wise.

Get a good AVR, setup a 5.1 (or higher) speaker system, THEN you will really know why BR is such a good idea.

Beautiful visuals and awe inspiring sound.

I recommend Kung Fu Panda on BluRay for people to try out. It is the only BR to score a 100 out of 100 on the avsforum rating. It is considered reference material now.
 
qdemn7 said:
I wonder just how many of these people who claim they can't see any differnece are actually sitting at the proper distance for viewing. Amaxing how close you are actually supposed to sit in re the size of your 1080P screen. For example with a 40 inch diagnoal screen, which is a popular size, you actually have to sit no more than 6 feet from the screen to get the proper effect. That is one standard couch length.

To the inch (PDF file) http://hdguru.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/hdtv_distance_chart.pdf

Graphical chart http://www.carltonbale.com/2006/11/1080p-does-matter/
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Yes, this was exactly my point. For the average HDTV owner (which is probably in the 40" range), they really don't see a big improvement, just like I don't on my 51" TV from 10' or so. Now OTOH, with a large 100+" front projected screen, it's not too hard to get close enough to benefit from the increased resolution.
 
Serpico said:
I think it goes beyond that. Many of these are the same people that talk about the awesome Samsung 22" LCD they got at Best Buy for $300, which in fact has rotten viewing angles, uneven illumination, and ridiculous color banding and dithering. But it must be good because its bright, cheap, and the sticker on the front says 2ms response time!

Some people just don't know, or don't care about the difference between a good looking image or a bad looking one.
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I agree! I think this is the major problem. Most people dont even understand what the best is vs the product that they own.
 
Blu will only become truly "mainstream" when people are forced to abandon DVD.

Studios will not abandon DVD until enough people have HDTVs and demand better quality.

The reality of the situation is that, without doing a side-by-side comparison, people just don't know what they're missing with DVD resolution, even on a large screen. The rest of the people just don't care, HD isn't even on their radar until it's economically feasible for them. With the economy in shambles like it is now, Blu will have a very difficult time gaining ground.

Technological progress is always hindered by the will of the masses. Take PC monitors, for example. If people had demanded IPS panels, companies would have designed new IPS monitors and calibrated their factories to produce these units in bulk, lowering prices and satisfying demand while broadening their consumer base. Instead, as we all know, people continued to demand TN panels due to their present low cost and the simple fact that they didn't know any better. Companies were content to flood the market with TN while IPS lingers as a luxury technology they can use to increase their profit margins on very-high-end units.

As always, education (or lack thereof) is the root cause of the problem. It's very difficult to be an informed consumer these days if you don't do your research online. Most people still don't know how to use google properly...
 
Media downloads may have been the future at one time, but the ISP's are doing their best to destroy that distribution method.
 
I can tell the difference between an upscaled DVD and a properly done blu-ray on my 42" 720p TV. It is quite substantial.
 
-=Antimatter=- said:
As always, education (or lack thereof) is the root cause of the problem.
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I disagree. The root cause is Americans willingness to almost always choose cost over any other issue. The rise of Walmart and other discounters (aka dollar stores) proves that Americans will buy cheap crap if it's available over quality.
 
qdemn7 said:
I disagree. The root cause is Americans willingness to almost always choose cost over any other issue. The rise of Walmart and other discounters (aka dollar stores) proves that Americans will buy cheap crap if it's available over quality.
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While I could argue that lack of education is what causes this behavior, you're right, it's a societal issue. Too many credit cards and the desire to show off to your friends encourages impulsive, unresearched spending without regard to the actual quality of the product. Hey, I'll replace it next year anyway, right?
 
Serpico said:
Those are elements but the movie isn't about that. They are mostly a way to get a robot alone by himself in the apocalypse. Either way, great movie, and IMO not politically driven.
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Derangel said:
People who claim there is some kind of message in Wall-E really need to watch the special features on the disc. They were made human because it worked. Originally they were jello-like blobs As the story evolved they became human and the writers than needed a reason for them to be in space and no on Earth, so the whole big corporation ruling the world and the wold turning into a trash planet came to be. The humans being obese came from the jello-blob design with human features added to it. Wall-E is a love story, everything else is secondary.
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Thanks for the clarification, I will give the movie a go.
 
I refuse to give credence to an article from someone who writes something like this:

One thing I didn't like is that all of the Blu-ray movies I watched were widescreen, so there were black bars above and below the picture on my HDTV until I stretched it or zoomed in.
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Alrighty then....
 
Sony spent a fortune to win the war. The only looser was the consumer.
HD was not going to rip us off like blu...any HD had great chips to upconvert dvd.
Blu there are 2 that do great upconvert the rest, sony players are designed NOT to do great upconvert.
Hell if you can upconvert why would you pay their BS prices for a blu disk.
Yep they are way overpriced. players, movies all are a big rip off.

And sony has not ever turned on the spyware in the players yet. Yep internet connect for verification of your movie. Rentals will probably fail and either you can't watch it or the unit will lock up and have to be taken in to get the disk out. Fing pirate....that is sonys view on all of their customers.
 
Who reads the Baltimore Sun for a legitimate source of reviews anyway? Complaining about the black bars in widescreen proves anyone could work for the newspaper.

sparks said:
And sony has not ever turned on the spyware in the players yet. Yep internet connect for verification of your movie. Rentals will probably fail and either you can't watch it or the unit will lock up and have to be taken in to get the disk out. Fing pirate....that is sonys view on all of their customers.
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Is there a problem with spyware on Blue-ray Optical Drives for the PC? What about the video playing software?
 
After reading much of the discussion. I'M really really tempted to go out and rent Wall-E in Blu-Ray. And I can't wait to get my hands on Planet Earth on Blu-Ray
 
sparks said:
Sony spent a fortune to win the war. The only looser was the consumer.
HD was not going to rip us off like blu...any HD had great chips to upconvert dvd.
Blu there are 2 that do great upconvert the rest, sony players are designed NOT to do great upconvert.
Hell if you can upconvert why would you pay their BS prices for a blu disk.
Yep they are way overpriced. players, movies all are a big rip off.

And sony has not ever turned on the spyware in the players yet. Yep internet connect for verification of your movie. Rentals will probably fail and either you can't watch it or the unit will lock up and have to be taken in to get the disk out. Fing pirate....that is sonys view on all of their customers.
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Spyware in the players? blu-ray players do NOT have to be connected to the internet for the movie to play...i had a ps3 for over a year not connected to the internet and not once had an issue playing a BD disc because the lack of internet connectivity.

movies are all a big ripoff? new DVDs are not cheap at all...maybe $5 cheaper than a new blu-ray disc. plus blu-ray is still growing rapidly(and faster than DVD did originally), and not slowing down...it is only a matter of time before stores get more flooded with BD related hardware and software, only then will prices really start to come down.
 
sparks said:
Sony spent a fortune to win the war. The only looser was the consumer.
HD was not going to rip us off like blu...any HD had great chips to upconvert dvd.
Blu there are 2 that do great upconvert the rest, sony players are designed NOT to do great upconvert.
Hell if you can upconvert why would you pay their BS prices for a blu disk.
Yep they are way overpriced. players, movies all are a big rip off.

And sony has not ever turned on the spyware in the players yet. Yep internet connect for verification of your movie. Rentals will probably fail and either you can't watch it or the unit will lock up and have to be taken in to get the disk out. Fing pirate....that is sonys view on all of their customers.
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Okay, LOL. You obviously need some corrections here, because you're spreading false information. Which is a shame.

Sony wasn't the only company involved. Sony isn't the only one running the show. They created Blu-Ray Disc, sure, but many other companies are involved. If Sony spent a fortune on the war, so did Toshiba in retrospect. Don't ignore the obvious here. Money changed hands on both sides of the war numerous times according to the detailed timeline of the format war. I suggest you take 5 minutes to read it. You may learn something.

And, the PS3 itself is an upconverting DVD player. This is well-known.

The internet connectivity does not interfere with the playback of the film in any way. Essentially, the only difference between profiles 1.1 and 2.0 is internet connectivity. An ethernet port. The movie itself will play just fine on any of those players without issue. If you want to watch the BD-Live material, then yes...internet connection is required for the player to access the additional material. Personally, I have no need of BD-Live because I'm just a 'good video and good audio only' kinda guy. But spyware? LOL.

I'll state it again....if you want it, buy it. if you don't want it, don't buy it. Period. Bickering about it is laughably ridiculous. And spreading uninformed misinformation about things only makes it worse. Try a Google search next time, please. There's a wealth of information available.
 
I have a 42" plasma, 1080i, downstairs in my game room. DVD at 420p looks just fine. When I get a player that upconverts, it will probably just look fine as well.

On my bud's theater setup with a 142" LCD projector at 1080p.. then you can see the difference.

My only hope for BR discs is that we see multiple episode content on a single disc, and less "extras". Give me a season of 24 on one disk, in a slim case please.
 
ShagnWagn said:
I guess in the 1800s, you said vehicles are NOT the future because 90% of people don't have one? rofl
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I build my own PCs and still can't wrap my head around how to use a HTPC.

I still don't know how to copy or "rip" a DVD to my hard drive. I tried to hook up my video card to my 42" 720p TV and it looked like total shit and I had no way to output sound to the TV.

Pain in the ass.
 
CRXican said:
I build my own PCs and still can't wrap my head around how to use a HTPC.

I still don't know how to copy or "rip" a DVD to my hard drive. I tried to hook up my video card to my 42" 720p TV and it looked like total shit and I had no way to output sound to the TV.

Pain in the ass.
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Use the internet, very useful info on there.
You're ok using the internet?
 
Seriously, this whole "$25-$30" per movie quotation has to stop. It's inaccurate to the point of idiocy on the part of anyone who still regurgitates it. I've not paid more than $18 for one Blu-Ray disc. I've paid as low as $8 and as much as $18, and most of my purchases hover somewhere around $13 .

That puts it on par with DVD prices for new movies.

The one exception I have in my collection, is Dark Knight, which was $24 for the blu ray, and still runs $21 at it's cheapest for the 2 disc comparable DVD. I hardly feel like Im being fleeced given the upgrade in picture and sound for 4 extra dollars.

I guess if I bought every movie not on sale at Best Buy on release date, I would be paying $30, or more, even. Since when does a stated MSRP mean thats what we're all paying for stuff?

It seems half the media outlets have never heard of amazon.com
 
The article is a sack of shit, I still prefer owning a hard copy of any movie I purchase, and I haven't the chance yet but I'm pretty sure that Blu-Ray looks damn good on an HDTV (that I don't have yet), I'm thinking about getting a Blu-Ray drive for the computer so I can make the most of the surround sound.
 
CRXican said:
Wat? Is that where I find Google?

I've read up on that stuff and it's still not worth the hassle.
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Thats the bit I dont understand, modern hardware is no hassle at all to get awesome results.
There are some great guides on the internet and there are tools for ripping and encoding movies that your Grandma could use.
Its your loss not mine, so it might be to your benefit to make a thread about it.
 
Nenu said:
Thats the bit I dont understand, modern hardware is no hassle at all to get awesome results.
There are some great guides on the internet and there are tools for ripping and encoding movies that your Grandma could use.
Its your loss not mine, so it might be to your benefit to make a thread about it.
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I agree with you.

I will just wait for prices to come down. I dont really watch too many movies anyhow.
 
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