Another Technology Gone Wrong Story

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It seems that a bunch of kids have come up with a way to fool those annoying speed cameras into giving tickets to the wrong people. How? Printing out fake license plates, taping them over their own and then speeding through the speed trap. Don’t feel bad, as despicable as this is…I laughed too.

Students duplicate the license plates by printing plate numbers on glossy photo paper, using fonts from certain websites that "mimic" those on Maryland license plates. They tape the duplicate plate over the existing plate on the back of their car and purposefully speed through a speed camera, the parent said. The victim then receives a citation in the mail days later. Students are even obtaining vehicles from their friends that are similar or identical to the make and model of the car owned by the targeted victim, according to the parent.
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Now that I moved to AZ and they are installing these cameras *everywhere* I find this thread +1 informative, lol.

Now, do these little bastards know how much trouble you can get into for faking a license plate?

New York: Section 2130 says that it is a felony to produce, make, manufacture or reproduce any license plate or tag.
 
Which makes me still feel that you need a 100% identifiable picture of the driver for it to legally stick. Dunno the actual laws, but that is how it should be (often, how it should be is not how it is).
 
That is just it, none of it is a law.....it is an Administrative fine, at least in AZ. No points on your license, just a big F()ck you to your wallet.
 
They got rid of the cameras here after residents filed a petition to have them removed. I got one for speeding in a school zone.....


....wait for it......



....on a Saturday.


Thankfully the system was voted out and shut down and I didn't have to pay the citation.
 
Steve said:
They got rid of the cameras here after residents filed a petition to have them removed. I got one for speeding in a school zone.....
....wait for it......
....on a Saturday.
Thankfully the system was voted out and shut down and I didn't have to pay the citation.
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That is funny, I saw a thing posted somewhere some guy got a ticket because his car was being towed...apparently the tow truck was speeding, lol.

I think it is absurd. Where there are cameras, there aren't any cops. I would gladly take a speeding ticket if I was drinking and driving over the DUI (I do not drink and drive nor condone it.)

or running drugs
or with the 3 dead bodies in the trunk...
 
Same here in GA....no points to your license or anything reported to your insurance. It's just a fat $$-$$$ fine out of your pocket. I personally avoid them at all costs if possible, since they're not at every intersection corner.

They have some placed here where they know traffic backs up at the next light to the previous one and can stop people turning mid-turn which leaves them stranded when the light changes.

They have no warning that this is going to happen, get stuck in the middle or close to it and get popped with a ticket. I've heard that most of the tickets won't hold up in court if you take the time to just show up and protest it, problem is most people don't. They just pay the fine and go on, which is why they keep installing more.

Revenue for them is all it is. I know in some areas here it's caused more accidents since they installed them b/c of people trying to make sure they make the light or stop too late and get hit.

They suck plain and simple. :mad:
 
Steve said:
They got rid of the cameras here after residents filed a petition to have them removed. I got one for speeding in a school zone.....
....wait for it......
....on a Saturday.
Thankfully the system was voted out and shut down and I didn't have to pay the citation.
Click to expand...

You mean you've never heard of saturday school? :p
 
Speeding tickets by camera with just a pic of the license is absurd. You need a pic of the driver as well. When you ticket a someone in face to face... you ticket the driver... not the owner of the vehicle.
 
BettiePage said:
Speeding tickets by camera with just a pic of the license is absurd. You need a pic of the driver as well. When you ticket a someone in face to face... you ticket the driver... not the owner of the vehicle.
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That is the easiest way to get out of the tickets in AZ. My buddies have swapped cars with their spouses, because when the ticket gets taken it is him driving her car, she gets the ticket, contends she wasn't driving and it gets thrown out.

There are close to 60 cameras on the expressways down here, with another 60 slated o be put up by July 09.
 
Speed camera's are an absolute sham. It's an endless snap and pay revenue stream for the city/state. I really, seriously, hope our petitions pass here. Those damn things need to come down!
 
While I would agree that speed cameras in general do suck and you really need to have a photo of the person driving the vehicle as well, this does not excuse this kind of idiocy of some of our youth today.
 
Some guy is trying to sue AZ because the cameras were never put to a ballot...i can't find the link...argghhhh
 
There are cameras all over the place here in the Chicago suburbs. What really frosts me is when a city is approached and asked if they want them and they don't, they get a call from the Dept of Homeland Security recommending they get the cameras (heard this from a family friend on a city council). Here it doesn't matter who's driving the cars, and the fines are quite hefty (3-4 fines equals a gaming laptop).
 
Pezzy said:
There are cameras all over the place here in the Chicago suburbs. What really frosts me is when a city is approached and asked if they want them and they don't, they get a call from the Dept of Homeland Security recommending they get the cameras (heard this from a family friend on a city council). Here it doesn't matter who's driving the cars, and the fines are quite hefty (3-4 fines equals a gaming laptop).
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Sounds like whoever is selling the cameras has some quid pro quo going on with a friend at Homeland Security. None of their business really. The companies that operate in the northern suburbs GIVE the cameras away for free and make all their money with the management contract for the cameras and ticket processing.
 
I know that. It's an easy source of revenue. But... don't you think Homeland Security want cameras everywhere? Big Brother, and all that. Not all cities want them though. And nothing can take the place of a real human police office.
 
ir0nw0lf said:
While I would agree that speed cameras in general do suck and you really need to have a photo of the person driving the vehicle as well, this does not excuse this kind of idiocy of some of our youth today.
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I'd say it shows their creativity and ingenuity. You sit there and bitch like a forum reading child while they, in their own way, protest the bullshit we are being subjected to. If anything, it highlights how despicable our complacent populace is. Too bad your kind of thinking is so prevalent and responsible for many instances of good being overshadowed by the "bad" side of it.
 
AOM said:
Same here in GA....no points to your license or anything reported to your insurance. It's just a fat $$-$$$ fine out of your pocket. I personally avoid them at all costs if possible, since they're not at every intersection corner.

They have some placed here where they know traffic backs up at the next light to the previous one and can stop people turning mid-turn which leaves them stranded when the light changes.

They have no warning that this is going to happen, get stuck in the middle or close to it and get popped with a ticket. I've heard that most of the tickets won't hold up in court if you take the time to just show up and protest it, problem is most people don't. They just pay the fine and go on, which is why they keep installing more.

Revenue for them is all it is. I know in some areas here it's caused more accidents since they installed them b/c of people trying to make sure they make the light or stop too late and get hit.

They suck plain and simple. :mad:
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I know what you mean about the traffic cameras, however in Georgia the law states that you may not legally be in the intersection once the light turns red unless "you are making a left turn and you entered the intersection before the light turned red". I know this because me and my daughter looked it up after a paddy-wagon ticketed her for making a left turn and told her it didn't matter the light was yellow when she entered the intersection. We opted for a jury trail, presented the law regarding this and the ticket was dismissed.

The actual law is 40-6-24 and if you want to look it up, go to http://www.lexis-nexis.com/hottopics/gacode/default.asp, select Title 40, select Chapter 6, select Article 2 and then click on "40-6-24 Lane direction control signals".
 
Wow, this is a great argument to use in court for denying it was you.

As is now, my local parish (county) has a class action law suit against it, b/c people are complaining about the legality of it... burden of proof... to prove it was the actual person, etc..

Now this just really throws another curve in there.
 
Kristofff said:
I'd say it shows their creativity and ingenuity. You sit there and bitch like a forum reading child while they, in their own way, protest the bullshit we are being subjected to. If anything, it highlights how despicable our complacent populace is. Too bad your kind of thinking is so prevalent and responsible for many instances of good being overshadowed by the "bad" side of it.
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They are not "protesting in their own way", they are using it as a vengeance tool against their peers, or rather, their peers' parents, and teachers.

The only thing they are actually doing that is of benefit, and it is wholly unintentional on the part of the criminals in question, is highlighting a way to abuse the system.

Protesting in their own way my ass. If they were protesting, they would use the plate #'s off of cars belonging to the county commissioner and other officials of the offending government. Or are you saying they are too stupid to know who the hell they are protesting against?
 
GORANKAR said:
They are not "protesting in their own way", they are using it as a vengeance tool against their peers, or rather, their peers' parents, and teachers.

The only thing they are actually doing that is of benefit, and it is wholly unintentional on the part of the criminals in question, is highlighting a way to abuse the system.

Protesting in their own way my ass. If they were protesting, they would use the plate #'s off of cars belonging to the county commissioner and other officials of the offending government. Or are you saying they are too stupid to know who the hell they are protesting against?
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Thats been done, but they stole the actual plate off a traffic van with a camera... then drove past it shortly afterwards!! Now that was genius.

But thats a good idea.... If they did it with the license plate of prominent officials, like the sheriff, mayor, etc... or the people who run the companies who do the cameras for them. As most of the cameras are run by a 3rd party company... not the local municipality.
 
Pezzy said:
There are cameras all over the place here in the Chicago suburbs. What really frosts me is when a city is approached and asked if they want them and they don't, they get a call from the Dept of Homeland Security recommending they get the cameras (heard this from a family friend on a city council). Here it doesn't matter who's driving the cars, and the fines are quite hefty (3-4 fines equals a gaming laptop).
Click to expand...

I saw one for the first time the other day...I think...it flashed like a fucking Polaroid and then there was nothing. I must have stared at the flash for a good 2 minutes trying to figure out WTF it was. Now I know.

...it was located near a bus stop.
 
chrisf6969 said:
Wow, this is a great argument to use in court for denying it was you.

As is now, my local parish (county) has a class action law suit against it, b/c people are complaining about the legality of it... burden of proof... to prove it was the actual person, etc..

Now this just really throws another curve in there.
Click to expand...

and when they take your pic and you're not with the woman you love, have fun explaining that to the wife. I know it ain't you...I'm just sayin' tho.
 
GORANKAR said:
They are not "protesting in their own way", they are using it as a vengeance tool against their peers, or rather, their peers' parents, and teachers.

The only thing they are actually doing that is of benefit, and it is wholly unintentional on the part of the criminals in question, is highlighting a way to abuse the system.

Protesting in their own way my ass. If they were protesting, they would use the plate #'s off of cars belonging to the county commissioner and other officials of the offending government. Or are you saying they are too stupid to know who the hell they are protesting against?
Click to expand...

You're right. They should go to parking lots heavily watched my security cameras and snoop around copying state officials license plates down as security watches them. Genius!
 
Kristofff said:
You're right. They should go to parking lots heavily watched my security cameras and snoop around copying state officials license plates down as security watches them. Genius!
Click to expand...

It would be funny if they just started pulling the plate numbers off government vehicles and did it. Pull the tag numbers off police cars, meter maids, city trucks etc. Best would be getting the governors limo's plates and using them.
 
Kristofff said:
You're right. They should go to parking lots heavily watched my security cameras and snoop around copying state officials license plates down as security watches them. Genius!
Click to expand...

Apparently you think they are too stupid to use a pair of binoculars too. This was not a protest, it was kids doing something petty, illegal, and stupid, in an almost clever way.
 
Shotglass01 said:
Speed camera's are an absolute sham. It's an endless snap and pay revenue stream for the city/state. I really, seriously, hope our petitions pass here. Those damn things need to come down!
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its not right. it sounds like theyre not even contestable in court- much like many "zero tolerance" laws. completely unconstitutional. you need a accuser of the crime and that needs to be a real cop.
 
spacetrader said:
you need a accuser of the crime and that needs to be a real cop.
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I agree one hundred percent on this. Yes, they're a great stream of revenue. But when you get into doing stuff like that, people get pissed and will ALWAYS try to find ways around it. You can't play big brother too much. Let people live their lives.
 
If a person goes past the marked speed in a zone where it is clearly marked with the appropriate speed limit for the zone then that person should get ticketed and pay the fine. Especially those who go past the speed limit marked in school zones. Nobody is above the law concerning children's safety. No matter what day it is.
 
AceGoober said:
If a person goes past the marked speed in a zone where it is clearly marked with the appropriate speed limit for the zone then that person should get ticketed and pay the fine. Especially those who go past the speed limit marked in school zones. Nobody is above the law concerning children's safety. No matter what day it is.
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I agree, but many of these systems have little leeway.

Go after the folks who are driving like 20 over, not 3 over.
 
Does anyone here have a problem with the fact that many of these cameras are VIDEO and are recording 24/7?

Here in Houston that is the case with the red light cameras, so essentially these RL cameras are also the building blocks for a city wide surveillance system. They have plenty of traffic cameras all over the freeways as well. With the proper software which already exists, anybody can be tracked in real time just by getting their license plate on camera.

This alone makes me feel like license plates should be abolished. Read this article on license plates and privacy: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2004/10/license_plate_g.html

If the government can now identify us any where we go by putting cameras up everywhere, we should have the ability/right to hide our identity. Unless we are suspected of a crime the government has no right to know who and where we are. Technology gives them this power, so we should get something in return.

It doesn't matter if we aren't doing anything wrong - since the beginning of man history has proven that more power in the hands of government leads to less liberty and freedom for the people they serve.

So basically these cameras suck.
 
AceGoober said:
If a person goes past the marked speed in a zone where it is clearly marked with the appropriate speed limit for the zone then that person should get ticketed and pay the fine. Especially those who go past the speed limit marked in school zones. Nobody is above the law concerning children's safety. No matter what day it is.
Click to expand...

I know around here there are two speed limits in school zones one for when school in and one thats 10 to 15 higher when its not

there is a chance that the thing was set to the lower limit and tagged him on and off hour
 
AOM said:
Same here in GA....no points to your license or anything reported to your insurance. It's just a fat $$-$$$ fine out of your pocket. I personally avoid them at all costs if possible, since they're not at every intersection corner.

They have some placed here where they know traffic backs up at the next light to the previous one and can stop people turning mid-turn which leaves them stranded when the light changes.

They have no warning that this is going to happen, get stuck in the middle or close to it and get popped with a ticket. I've heard that most of the tickets won't hold up in court if you take the time to just show up and protest it, problem is most people don't. They just pay the fine and go on, which is why they keep installing more.

Revenue for them is all it is. I know in some areas here it's caused more accidents since they installed them b/c of people trying to make sure they make the light or stop too late and get hit.

They suck plain and simple. :mad:
Click to expand...


Happened to me in Roswell/Alpharetta. There were at least 5-10 other cars in the photograph as well. Not all of them had liscense plates in the frame so I's say only 3-5 got tickets.
 
Oh and Car and Driver had a good article on these systems a while back. Cliff notes; they are simply revenue generators that fail at curbing speeding or other dangerous driving habits, most of the money goes to the company that owns and operates the system rather than the city.
 
TechieSooner said:
I agree, but many of these systems have little leeway.

Go after the folks who are driving like 20 over, not 3 over.
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+1. And there are plenty of those out there. Don't waste time on the 3-5 overs. I talked with a sheriff one time in Albuquerque that I made friends with. There was a street where the sign said "25 MPH Zero Tolerance Zone." Everybody there (with a few old people exceptions) would drive around 35 or slightly higher all the time. When I first started driving down that road regularly I would drive my usual "within 5 MPH of the limit" rule and get tailgated and block a line of traffic the whole time.

So I asked the sheriff what he thought about that. He said that he considers anything within 10MPH of the limit "safe" and wouldn't pull anybody over for going 35 in a 25. 35 is still dang slow. "But," I said, "Isn't it still supposedly a "zero tolerance residential zone??" He said that yes, the sign says that, but you're still not gonna get pulled over for 35 in any 25 because it's still safe. I was floored but he was right. I went 35 a few times right by city cops, sheriff officers, etc. Never even got the lights flashed at me. Never saw anyone else get pulled over at 35 MPH either. Seems to me the "law" is whatever the locals are going to enforce. To me 5 MPH over is still pretty darn safe, and most officers won't harass you for that.

But cameras take the "spirit of the law" aspect out of the equation, which makes it impersonal and exacting, and also too absolute. I much prefer the "reasonable and prudent" concept Montana threw out the window a few years back. I think 65 MPH in a 65 zone is WAY too fast for some drivers. I also think there are many competent drivers that can reasonably drive 5-10 miles over the limit and still pose less risk to themselves and others than many other drivers who are going exactly the limit.

spacetrader said:
its not right. it sounds like theyre not even contestable in court- much like many "zero tolerance" laws. completely unconstitutional. you need a accuser of the crime and that needs to be a real cop.
Click to expand...

+1 here too. Having a real person cop would prevent kids from plaguing people with rap like this, although part of me still salutes them for being a bit ingenious and protesting a system that they disagree with as citizens of their community. Maybe not the best way to do it, but clever nonetheless.
 
SirKronan said:
Seems to me the "law" is whatever the locals are going to enforce. To me 5 MPH over is still pretty darn safe, and most officers won't harass you for that.

.
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Exactly, it is all up to what the local enforcement wants to allow. Around me most go about 10 over the speed limit and 99.9% of the time the cops aren't going to stop you for going that much over. When I was in high school the sheriff pretty much told us the same thing. That most didn't feel that up to 10 over was really that bad for most areas and they wouldn't normally bother pulling you over for it unless there was some other reason for them too or the road conditions truely made driving at the speed dangerous (ie the roads being covered in ice).

At the same time when I was in college at the other end of the state the cops might have let you get by with 2 - 4 over but that was about it. It was pretty much zero tolerance area. I knew somebody that got pulled over for doing 8 over the limit. He explained to the cops how he (like me) was from an area where everyone drove about 10 over the limit and that is what he was use to. Cop gave him a written warning and told him next time it would be a ticket. that was enough make me drive about 2 under every time I went anywhere to make sure I wasn't going over.
 
Normally I'd be proud of stuff from MD, but the Speed Camera crap pisses me off - and I'm saying this as an engineer who majored in Traffic Engineering. They've placed in areas of extremely high volume, low level of service, and to further exacerbate those negative conditions, everyone has to walk on egg shells b/c of this nonsense that MOM (Martin O'Malley) has pushed out.

OTOH, I didn't go to RM (went to Wootton), but RM's a respected magnet school so heh. Go MD high schools?!
 
GORANKAR said:
They are not "protesting in their own way", they are using it as a vengeance tool against their peers, or rather, their peers' parents, and teachers.

The only thing they are actually doing that is of benefit, and it is wholly unintentional on the part of the criminals in question, is highlighting a way to abuse the system.

Protesting in their own way my ass. If they were protesting, they would use the plate #'s off of cars belonging to the county commissioner and other officials of the offending government. Or are you saying they are too stupid to know who the hell they are protesting against?
Click to expand...

Whether they meant to or not, they are pointing out the fact this system is bullshit. We don't have them here and I hope we never do.

Everyone else who has them should be protesting against them.

Using numbers from cop cars, govt officials is a pretty direct way to get the point across, but obviously not legal. The counterpoint is the legality of the system in the first place. They (govt officials) crossed a line with these cameras. Decided burden of proof was only necessary for episodes of law and order. And that my fellow [H] is breaking the law, breaking the spirit of the implied freedom we have from the consitution. Innocent until proven guilty and all that. God forbid you ever loan a vehicle to a friend or your ass may get a ticket for that too....

Fuck that.

So while what those kids did wasn't legal, I applaud them. The fact the system is so easily exploitable shows just one more way how wrong it is.
 
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