Those who have/are thinking about moveing away from windows.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Bones said:
WIth different punctuation it makes more sense, yes. But you're still not making a coherent argument. You need to start with facts and build a logical chain of arguments to a conclusion. We started off with this fact: Linux does not support all PC hardware. What doesn't follow is your assertion that, based on that fact, Linux is somehow unsuitable for general use and never will be. All you've said about Joe Whatever (a strawman that cannot be defended) is noise, and does not contribute to the discussion.
Click to expand...

The average consumer is not some fucking phantom or strawman, its time for someone to open their minds and go look up some consumer studies. It is very much fact that the average consumer knows nothing about thier computer. Its a fact that the average consumer will do absolutely no research on sub $100 purchases.

Whether or not linux is suitable for general use is however debatable.

Bones said:
It's been my experience that most users do not alter their hardware, at least in terms of memory, video card, etcetera. From what I've seen, when they do want to add something like a webcam, they call a computer shop or their geek friend to help them out. These people can make appropriate hardware choices, regardless of the operating system in use. Linux hardware support, in my view, is good; I can't think of any category of device for which Linux doesn't have at least one hardware choice.
Click to expand...

Sorry but 99.99% of the folks with experience in tech related customer service jobs will tell you your average joe is a fantasy. The type of guy that needs to call out a friend or even geek squad to install a webcam is not the type of person that could make an informed decision on what hardware to purchase, thats just silly. How can you know enough to make an informed decision on the piece of hardware and yet not know how to install it? Do you even see the enourmous contradiction there?

It is nice BTW to try and debunk the average joe argument by using your own version :rolleyes:

Bones said:
Of course, the users I've just talked about are my version of Joe Whatever. Your vision of Joe is probably different than mine, which is the central problem in these sorts of threads. Joe Whatever is anything you need him to be to support an argument. Without hard data to flesh him out, he's a spectre, ghost, or figment of the imagination. Therefore, as I said earlier in this thread, Joe is made of fail and cannot be defended. Any argument based on him is pure opinion. There isn't anything wrong with that, but such things should not be taken too seriously. When you act like you have some sort of monopoly on the truth and start rolling virtual eyes at people with differing opinions, it makes you look silly. As does calling people "fanboys".
Click to expand...

There is plenty hard data to flush out the average consumer. There are dozens of studies done year after year that continue to show a massive trend of ignorance.

I dont mind a disagreement but pretending a problem does not exist and then actually trying to convince others the same is the annoying fanboy shit.
 
pfunkman said:
The average consumer is not some fucking phantom or strawman, its time for someone to open their minds and go look up some consumer studies. It is very much fact that the average consumer knows nothing about thier computer. Its a fact that the average consumer will do absolutely no research on sub $100 purchases.
Click to expand...
Citation needed.
Whether or not linux is suitable for general use is however debatable.
Click to expand...
This is true.
Sorry but 99.99% of the folks with experience in tech related customer service jobs will tell you your average joe is a fantasy. The type of guy that needs to call out a friend or even geek squad to install a webcam is not the type of person that could make an informed decision on what hardware to purchase, thats just silly. How can you know enough to make an informed decision on the piece of hardware and yet not know how to install it? Do you even see the enourmous contradiction there?
Click to expand...
What? That's exactly what I said - the clueless user isn't the one making a hardware choice, it's the technically competent person. I've never seen a functionally computer illiterate person make a hardware choice without asking for some advice beforehand.
It is nice BTW to try and debunk the average joe argument by using your own version :rolleyes: There is plenty hard data to flush out the average consumer. There are dozens of studies done year after year that continue to show a massive trend of ignorance.
Click to expand...
Rolling your eyes is not a substitute for making an argument. There is hard data that is indicative of a massive trend of ignorance - even a cursory glance at virus infection rates and malware studies will show it. What is your version of Joe, and can you site a study to back him up? And what does this have to do with Linux hardware support, if these aren't the people selecting hardware for their Linux boxes, as I contend?
I dont mind a disagreement but pretending a problem does not exist and then actually trying to convince others the same is the annoying fanboy shit.
Click to expand...
You're in the Linux forum, surely you must have expected a rebuttal of your Linux unfriendly assertions. You believe that Linux hardware support is poor, and have yet to muster a substantive argument for it. The issue here is not fanboyism, it is trying to pass off opinion as The One Truth. You got called on it, and no amount of name calling or eye-rolling is going to let you off easily. Buttress your case with some facts, or admit that your position is founded on opinion and move on. I'd love for you to prove me wrong about this - it would raise the quality level of discussion on the forum.
 
I've tried, quite a few times, to 'make the leap' so to speak. Most times were just for fun but the most recent attempt was because I was working on a web application which would be deployed much easier if it was developed in the same environment that it's going to end up on.

Every time I ran into only one problem:

Driver issues in frustration levels ranging from windows 3.x to windows 95. I felt like I had gone back in time. Actually not entirely because I couldn't go to school or to my neighbor and see if he had some magical floppy disk with a driver on it.
 
Healthy debate is one thing, but some of you are treading on a flame war. Consider this your one warning. If need be this thread will be closed and administrative action taken against the guilty parties.
 
Hmm you know what come to think of it and with regards to stuff not working in GNU/Linux that will cause havoc on a normal person using a computer...I think pre-made systems will not have this problem or if it does it won't be as bad since the one making the pre-made systems (Like HP, Dell, et al.) will have to make sure that whatever comes out with their pre-made systems is working.

And then the only problem I can see is the things that Joe Average will do after he boots up his pre-made system. Again we can argue that if the manufacturer would just make sure that their Tax Pro V9000 DVD would work on most distros (Pretty sure HP or Dell won't use something like PinKbuntu for the Pink KDE lovers or something as their default OS) then pressing the OPEN button on Joe Average's DVD drive and then waiting for the content to pop out would be pretty much the same as in Windows. Same thing would have to happen with hardware like mp3 players (They fall under hardware too you know), printers, webcams, et al.

GNU/Linux per se is as compatible and compliant as Microsoft's Windows. What kills it in my opinion is the manufacturers that choose to not develop their products under GNU/Linux or at least take it into consideration.

I honestly don't think that the operating system itself is the root of the problem and nor is the user the one to blame when things don't work in general.

Now when things don't work when you're the one who installed GNU/Linux...well that's another story and certainly does not fall under Joe Average. My version of Joe Average is the one that would like everything to be plug-n-play. He only gets scared when he sees the word INSTALL because he knows that it'll ask him for his choice.

Now if the app would just pop out a big screen that says "INSTALL" and that's the only thing Joe Average will have to do. I think it'll be easy for him. Again pointing out that it's up to the manufacturer to make this stuff work.

If you already know or even have the slightest idea that you can actually install apps without a CD (Think YUM and apt-get or their GUI counterparts) then you don't fall under Joe Average.

If he has to download like some MySpace Theme maker or something app, then it's up to the dev of that app to make sure that it's dumbed-down as much as possible (Which should be pretty much a time time click of the word INSTALL).

If some of you guys still don't get it or dunno where I'm headed. I'm blaming most if not everything to the software devs and hardware manufacturers for not making their product work under GNU/Linux.

It was never GNU/Linux's or it's devs' fault...it's them.
It was never Joe Average's fault...it's them.

Just don't take my statements to the extreme or black and white just because I used the word 'EVERYTHING'.
 
Bones said:
You're in the Linux forum, surely you must have expected a rebuttal of your Linux unfriendly assertions. You believe that Linux hardware support is poor, and have yet to muster a substantive argument for it. The issue here is not fanboyism, it is trying to pass off opinion as The One Truth. You got called on it, and no amount of name calling or eye-rolling is going to let you off easily. Buttress your case with some facts, or admit that your position is founded on opinion and move on. I'd love for you to prove me wrong about this - it would raise the quality level of discussion on the forum.
Click to expand...

I done arguing with you its pretty annoying. I will say however this paragraph sums up the fanboy ignorance quite well. Would it really make you feel better if i provided a link or two showing how linux hardware support is poor compared to windows? Why should i need to link something that is common knowledge? Honestly how the hell can you even argue that linux hardware support is even remotely close to windows hardware support? Such an argument is ridiculous and all the fanboys that use it have to base it on is the initial poor support with vistas launch.

Honestly how the fuck can you tell me to provide facts to back up my argument when you cant even do the same? Why do you expect from me more than you are willing to give?

When you want something to succede and do well you should be critical of it not try and convince everyone the issues are fake. Im not some fucking troll trying to put down linux. I want to see it succed and do well and to do that changes need to be made and issues need to be addressed not swept under the fucking rug and ignored. Shoving linux into the mainstream as it is now will only result in failure in the end.

This ignorant fanboy bullshit has always been the worst part of linux as a whole. God forbid someone dare criticize the great linux and expect more from it! :rolleyes:

Oh and you can have another :rolleyes: for good measure.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top