So, when will deformable terrain make a comeback?

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lobski

Limp Gawd
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Apr 17, 2008
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Unfortunately, even after the release of Red Faction, totally deformable terrain/maps have not made a comeback. Destructible environments almost disappeared after the release of Red Faction, and nowadays, it's all about "destructible environments" which focuses on destroyable buildings and assets in the map, but not the terrains themselves(Mercenaries, Crysis, etc.)

Deformable terrain, discuss!
 
I think terrain deformation is not too far off, especially now that APIs such as PhysX allow a much more realistic approach, while being done faster on modern GPUs.
There's still a problem with memory though, so there still should be some sort of limitation for the destruction.
 
It was a gimmick which sold red faction, it's unlikely to make a comeback outside of the new red faction game. I'd like to see more deformable terrain and breakable objects come back in a general way, the same as we kind of expect ragdol phsyics on dead player models now a days, I think we're a long way off most games having it.

The new red faction game does look cool though, kind of like Red Faction meets Pontifex (bridge builder)
 
Eagle156 said:
Far Cry had deformable terrain, sort of.
Click to expand...

Grenades made a little pit in the ground if I remember correctly? That effect wouldn't stack tho. :p
 
deforming terrain has been a bad gimmick. Until there's real physics engines capable of handling it in a good way, we'll get shit like fracture. God what a bad game.
 
lobski said:
Wow, didn't know about this.

I am still skeptical about the fully modifiable environment though, I doubt it'll have the ability to "tunnel anywhere in the map for 10 miles with a rocket launcher".
Click to expand...

The tunneling is just a gimick that really won't add to the game though. Fully destructible is the goal here, and I think deformable terrain is only a very small factor in this. After reading the link above - it sounds like the new Red Faction is on the right track for what will really immerse the player.

Frostex said:
It was a gimmick which sold red faction, it's unlikely to make a comeback outside of the new red faction game. I'd like to see more deformable terrain and breakable objects come back in a general way, the same as we kind of expect ragdol phsyics on dead player models now a days, I think we're a long way off most games having it.

The new red faction game does look cool though, kind of like Red Faction meets Pontifex (bridge builder)
Click to expand...

I agree - fully deformable terrain is little more than a gimick. Semi deformable terrain will probably happen fairly soon. It's unrealistic to tunnel underneath an entire map, where does the dirt go? If you shoot a rocket into the ground so many times you will eventually get too deep and the dirt will just fall back into the hole. Or the ground would eventually cave in, leaving huge trenches in the ground. Of course that would be neat, but I think the ramifications of that would be too severe on the gameplay. It would involve a fundamental change in how games are created - from the objectives to how you achieve them, to the level design, not to mention what may happen to the A.I.

I think fully deformable terrain will never really happen except in fringe cases where they're trying to show it off. Eventually realistic deformable terrain will be a reality.
 
Technoob said:
deforming terrain has been a bad gimmick. Until there's real physics engines capable of handling it in a good way, we'll get shit like fracture. God what a bad game.
Click to expand...

I agree - fracture looks like a really bad game IMO. The 'deforming' looks like nothing more than creating a landmass in the earlier simcity games - wholly unrealistic and unconvincing.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Faction:_Guerrilla

Geo-Mod Destructible Environments

In the E3 2008 demo, it was shown that the player may use guns, melee weapons, vehicles, and explosives to destroy nearly every part of the environment, and allows the player to “tear the EDF presence down brick by brick”.


If the game will really allow that, than HOLY SHIT :)
 
About the gimmick.... Of course it's a gimmick! But why should it not be part of a game just because it is? FPS games are made UP of gimmicks. I don't see why deformable terrain shouldn't be a part of it. In my opinion, it's not used often, since tunneling underground for 10 miles will break the pace and level design of a game. Players will try to explore by excavating walls and find nothing. This is like an invisible wall that is in many FPS games that stops people from exploring, but with endless fruitless excavating.
 
I first read the title as "Terran". I guess the Infected Marine will make a comeback in SC2.
 
Mr. Miyagi said:
I first read the title as "Terran". I guess the Infected Marine will make a comeback in SC2.
Click to expand...

:D

Back in the days when me and my friends played a lot of 3v3, we'd always have our Terran guy build extra command centres for the sole purpose of creating suicide bom...er...infected terrans :)
 
My gamer tag is AMA_King.
I used to make race tracks for Motocross Madness 1 & 2 - then MX vs. ATV
I also had a job interview w/ Rainbow as a track designer for MX vs ATV Unleashed.

Deformable terrain would best serve the gaming worlds of MX, ATV & games like DiRT.
- it would effect the tracks main racing line with deeper ruts, steeper berms, etc.
- every single lap would be a little different - just like real races!
- different days & weather effects & traction effects & the path taken by racing opponents lap after lap would really provide a different experience!

This video shows ruts made by the track designer... but they never change.
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShMOZjJ48yE&feature=related

Imagine if that kind of terrain was deformable and effected by weather? YEAH BABY!

I read that SEGA Rally REVO has deformable terrain, but the game reviews suck.
I still intend to try it will buy the game soon... when it hits bargain bin prices.

Anyway... how do you see this feature adding to the game experience in a FPS?
I guess you would get a mortar craters to hide in briefly, but then you would be moving on toward the objective - take the hill, destroy the radio tower, etc...

Anyway... there are a TON of great off-road racing games that we need this for!

EDIT - I see that the new version of MX vs. ATV (consoles only - video below) has a rut forming behind the rider, but I don't see any evidence that it is persistent and he wasn't racing anyone to see if AI bikes create ruts... does anyone know if the ruts stay there through a race?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYT4IAHKxng&feature=related
 
well in fps games i think its better for the environment to deform to a degree. Red Faction was great, there was parts of the buildings that would not explode but, they blocked the door, make a hole in the wall and enter the base, the water following the craters was cool, i can settle for craters, doors that explode when you shoot them enough, and for furniture that is destroyed, i know for some games it would make it unplayable if it was complete destruction, but the things we can destroy is way way too limited. Look at war games and objective shooters if you blow up a wall or obstacle its only that one piece, why cant you make a little cover by destroying something, or make a entrance where you want to, why do i have to blow up the wall in the same spot everytime, this lets the other team cover the only possible attack routes. and while fun and i like a challenge, after awhile it gets boring. part of that goes with weapons you have rockets and heavy guns and if the enemy is in the window with the exception of one or two games you cannot hit them if they dont show themselves, the penetration is nerfed. IF they are worried about play balance, then make the settings scalable to the server side or player menu so the player knows what to expect. shootine trees is a start, them falling on someone and killing or hurting them would be a plus, or shooting a roof or object down on someone would be cool too.
 
in order for it to not be a gimmick, they would need to have borders that are impervious to most ammo, eg dirt is mostly impervious to bullets, as are heavy metal walls etc...

and ammo that does deform terrain is limited in certain areas of the game.

the rest of the game should be its own monster, with most of the deformation not being necessary, only helpful if you figure it out. i.e. insta-trench when you get ambushed, blowing through a door instead of needing to go around
 
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