Large Hadron Collider Hacked

pxc said:
OMG H4X!

anotherworld03792981nr9.png
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OMG Another World! or I think that's what it was called.
 
Ok, black hole crap aside... the disturbing part is that they are admitting that hackers were "one step away" from possibly being able to damage or destroy a TEN BILLION DOLLAR PROJECT.

One would think that with over ten billion invested in the wolds largest peice of electronics that there would be talented full-time IT security keeping watch.
 
Advil said:
Ok, black hole crap aside... the disturbing part is that they are admitting that hackers were "one step away" from possibly being able to damage or destroy a TEN BILLION DOLLAR PROJECT.

One would think that with over ten billion invested in the wolds largest peice of electronics that there would be talented full-time IT security keeping watch.
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No kidding.
 
homerjelly said:
The why is because of the enormous amounts of data being generated by the LHC and then that data has to be shared out to the various Universities and Institutions simultaneously.
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Ummm, bring the fucking scientist TO the Hadron Collider to collect data on the experiment. No one has ever heard of a plane ticket? Let’s see, set up a multi-million dollar system to transfer terabytes of data simultaneously around the globe….or buy a 100 plane tickets for the scientist to actually show up and collect the data in person. Hmmm.

...another example of brilliant people doing stupid shit by totally overlooking the obvious.
 
Steve said:
Ummm, bring the fucking scientist TO the Hadron Collider to collect data on the experiment. No one has ever heard of a plane ticket? Let’s see, set up a multi-million dollar system to transfer terabytes of data simultaneously around the globe….or buy a 100 plane tickets for the scientist to actually show up and collect the data in person. Hmmm.

...another example of brilliant people doing stupid shit by totally overlooking the obvious.
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I'd be willing to bet that CERN has their own private jets and probably very good airline discounts.
 
Uberbob102000 said:
Not to drag this back into the whole black hole thing, But if this can create a black hole then there are hundreds or thousands above us all the time as much higher power collisions happen in the ionosphere, so even if it does we'll be fine. Also black holes are extremely powerful but can only have as wide of a gravity well as the matter that created it (I.E. if the moon created it on some random freak accident then it's gravity well would only be as wide as the moons gravity.)
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True, if the earth was somehow sudenly swallowed by a back hole that appeared at it's core (and assuming there wasn't some huge flash of radiation in the process) the poor guys on the ISS would be fine, if not a little confused as to why they could now see space out of every window.

I'm not worried though, i have http://hasthelargehadroncolliderdestroyedtheworldyet.com/ to keep me informed. :D
 
Or you mean constantly bring the thousands of scientists from around the world to collect the data in person? They're all going to want real time access to the data and a 15 hour flight each way isn't exactly "real time". Not to mention the open access will allow even part time physicists to explore the data, similar to what's happening with astronomical observation.

Another example of a not so brilliant person saying stupid shit by totally overlooking the obvious.

Steve said:
Ummm, bring the fucking scientist TO the Hadron Collider to collect data on the experiment. No one has ever heard of a plane ticket? Let’s see, set up a multi-million dollar system to transfer terabytes of data simultaneously around the globe….or buy a 100 plane tickets for the scientist to actually show up and collect the data in person. Hmmm.

...another example of brilliant people doing stupid shit by totally overlooking the obvious.
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LOL
i very good friend of mine that works at the CERN gave me his account, and password, so i can access his terminal using SSH, hahah, i use it when he is not using his account of course ;)
 
Tokamak said:
Or you mean constantly bring the thousands of scientists from around the world to collect the data in person? They're all going to want real time access to the data and a 15 hour flight each way isn't exactly "real time". Not to mention the open access will allow even part time physicists to explore the data, similar to what's happening with astronomical observation.

Another example of a not so brilliant person saying stupid shit by totally overlooking the obvious.
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Well, since they've already been hacked....my idea completely removes the threat of another attack.

a.) We are talking about data collected DURING the tests. All other data does not have to be real time.

b.) Scientists couldn't figure out a way to catch a flight ahead of time? I can't believe you said that about the 15 hour flight time....you would obviously fly to the facility before the test was conducted.

c.) All other data doesn't have to be real time.

d.) We are not talking about the local library getting hacked.

Since I am obviously stupid...your solution is?
 
Steve said:
Ummm, bring the fucking scientist TO the Hadron Collider to collect data on the experiment. No one has ever heard of a plane ticket? Let’s see, set up a multi-million dollar system to transfer terabytes of data simultaneously around the globe….or buy a 100 plane tickets for the scientist to actually show up and collect the data in person. Hmmm.

...another example of brilliant people doing stupid shit by totally overlooking the obvious.
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No disrespect, but I don't think that efficient at all. The transportation cost and also the storage medium required to transfer huge amount of data makes it not feasible.

No doubt using the internet expose them to threats, but its much more efficient that way, and of course every good compromise between efficiency and security comes with some risk. They will have to deal with the risk.
 
Tokamak said:
Another example of a not so brilliant person saying stupid shit by totally overlooking the obvious.
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I'm willing to put $50 down that Steve will beat your ass not only physically, but also intellectually.
 
Ockie said:
I'm willing to put $50 down that Steve will beat your ass not only physically, but also intellectually.
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With that said, there is no reason to insult anyone nor is there a reason to be nasty to anyone much less the moderators.
 
Oops, I didn't notice who the author of that post was. I read it and thought it was a regular flame bait, and I bit. My apologies Steve.

My better idea is to have a large network used for sharing the data worldwide while keeping in mind that the information system could be compromised and thus isolate the actual workings of the machine from the outside world. Remember, the internet was invented at CERN for exactly this purpose.
 
no worries ;)

Seriously though, as outlandish as my idea is...there really does have to be a better way than having internet access on this project.

*scientist number #232 checking his MySpace page ;)


Ockie said:
I'm willing to put $50 down that Steve will beat your ass not only physically, but also intellectually.
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heh...I think we we just avoided having a large hardon collision right here in this thread :D
 
=Vector= said:
Ok I feel the need to set some people straight since I've read up extensively on the LHC and what it can do (which btw, IT WILL NOT DESTROY THE WORLD and anybody thinks it will is a damn moron). In any case I happen to be a member of another forum where one of the forum members actually works on the LHC (well one of the experiments) and he had this to say about the hacking:



Now repeat after me, THE LHC WILL NOT...no...CAN NOT DESTROY THE WORLD!
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Your right. The question I ask is: Could the information gained from this device be used to destroy the world
 
Who knows? We can already destroy pretty much everything on the earth anyway. You ever see before and after pics of the first hydrogen bomb detonation (Ivy Mike)? It turned an entire island into an underwater crater. And that was just the first one. The Soviets developed and tested a deliverable bomb ten times that power. Then they started scaling back because there weren't any targets big enough. Entire cities aren't big enough targets.
Hopefully we learn something that will remove the need for power struggles, like a nearly unlimited energy supply. That would be nice.
 
Steve said:
Can someone please explain to me why ANY computer connected to the Hadron Collider project (or anything else of this magnitude) was accessible via the internet in the first place? Seriously.
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Why else? With all these supercomputers in there, they're the only ones in the world who can comfortably play Crysis multiplayer and actually enjoy it.
 
Steve said:
Seriously though, as outlandish as my idea is...there really does have to be a better way than having internet access on this project.
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How about sending the data via secure courier, no need to tie up useful scientists with transporting info.
 
Nenu said:
How about sending the data via secure courier, no need to tie up useful scientists with transporting info.
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CERN probably has enough resources to secure dead fiber to major universities.
 
Tokamak said:
My better idea is to have a large network used for sharing the data worldwide
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A global network, brilliant! Lets call it the Internet! :rolleyes:

Honestly, there really isn't a problem here. Hackers *supposedly* almost gained test result data - big whoop. One of the CERN workers pointed out that all the hacker got access to was one of the worker's remote account. Since control of the LHC is on its own network with only outbound connections (no remote access), there isn't a problem.
 
Wow, that hacker must have skills :p... don't they encrypt everything there though???? Oh and anyone seen this rap about the large hardon? :p
 
kllrnohj said:
A global network, brilliant! Lets call it the Internet! :rolleyes:

Honestly, there really isn't a problem here. Hackers *supposedly* almost gained test result data - big whoop. One of the CERN workers pointed out that all the hacker got access to was one of the worker's remote account. Since control of the LHC is on its own network with only outbound connections (no remote access), there isn't a problem.
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Quoted for you with sources below:

Scientists working at Cern, the organisation that runs the vast smasher, were worried about what the hackers could do because they were "one step away" from the computer control system of one of the huge detectors of the machine, a vast magnet that weighs 12,500 tons, measuring around 21 metres in length and 15 metres wide/high.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/09/12/scicern212.xml

If they had hacked into a second computer network, they could have turned off parts of the vast detector and, said the insider, "it is hard enough to make these things work if no one is messing with it."
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/09/12/scicern212.xml
 
kinda makes me wonder how long itd take to download any usable data from the collider... Or hell, how in the world do they store all of that "useful" data?
 
Tokamak said:
Yeah, I sort of thought that went without saying since this is why the internet was invented.
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A lot of companies have private backend connections and private global networks... it's not uncommon. Yes, the internet is easy to use, but it's also easy for hackers to use.

Dark fiber is quite availible and would be no problem for CERN to secure, also most if not all large universities already have local fiber drops so the path and means have already been established... so for CERN, a private network is not out of the question.
 
Tokamak said:
Yeah, I sort of thought that went without saying since this is why the internet was invented.
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that is a common misconception. The advent of the internet fostered a new era of knowledge and information sharing. Specifically tailored to meet the needs of scientists and students the world over.

...in other words the Internet is for porn
 
Ockie said:
Quoted for you with sources below:


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/09/12/scicern212.xml


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.jhtml?xml=/earth/2008/09/12/scicern212.xml
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Yes, I know. I said the LHC is separate - the actual collider and its control systems. They still had to hack into another entire network to gain access to the senors, which likely wouldn't be an easy task (if it was even possible)

Cern spokesman James Gillies told the BBC that the compromised computer was not connected to the accelerator itself.

"The computer is used to monitor one of the experiments at the LHC, it's nothing to do with the LHC accelerator itself or any of the control systems," he said.

Mr Gillies said the LHC had a general access network and a more restricted access network which controls the sensitive systems.
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7616622.stm

Also, it sounds like this was a case of social engineering - which is pretty damn hard to stop regardless of how good your IT is
"As far as I understand there was one user somewhere - who wasn't a hacker - who uploaded something on to this machine and inadvertently introduced a weakness that allowed people to get in," he said.
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Damn! They found me out!

All I wanted to do was see how fast it would cook popcorn...
 
It's true. I wanted to hack the collider to see how high I could overclock it.


I hope the universities participating in the US don't have Comcast!
 
AceGoober said:
Damn! They found me out!

All I wanted to do was see how fast it would cook popcorn...
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If your popcorn takes 3 mins normally, you'd have a cooked popcorn on the LHC in 15ms.
 
ah!! check it out, a friend of mine at the CERN, sent me his internet connection speed



now that is an upload!!! :eek:
 
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