Google Chrome Beta

I think a lot of people focusing on the licensing issue are missing something that has been brought up multiple times.

There are two different licenses at work here. The first is the EULA for the pre-compiled by Google and distributed by Google BINARY program...

The second is the BSD permissive license over the code used to actually BUILD the binaries.

There is nothing, at all, to stop somebody from vetting the code for any phone-home system calls, and ripping those out. This has already been brought up back in post #61 : http://www.hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1032978488&postcount=61

Why add the text into the EULA? Because that's the EULA. That's for the product that Google has put together themselves. That's not the program source code. They are two separate licenses.

Technically, somebody who builds their own version of Chrome could attach any EULA they wanted to on the final product. That's what a BSD license implicitly and explicitly allows.

However, the focus on the license ignores the goal of what Chrome is.

Chrome is not an attempt at making a full fledged browser to go up against FireFox and Opera.

and no, I'm not insane.

Chrome is a technological demonstration. For those of you who pay attention to cars, it's a concept car. It's a product that shows where the industry could go. After a day with the program, Chrome is a good indication of where browsers will go.

However, all of the underlying parts of Chrome, are open-sourced. The source-code is available now completely for the Windows x86 platform, and also in portions for Linux and OSX platforms.

The idea is for other companies to take the ideas, if they like them, and use them in their products. Somebody said that FireFox is the darling of the internet just a few posts ago, and most of us would agree about that. There's nothing to stop FireFox from adopting the technology Google has developed, or developing that technology further. That is the whole point of the Chrome browser. There's nothing to stop Opera from developing from the code either.

So, if you don't like the license attached to the binary copy provided by Google, big deal. That's no reason to just dump the idea as a whole in the trash can.
 
I ran the Sunspider javascript benchmark (http://www2.webkit.org/perf/sunspider-0.9/sunspider.html).

It ran about twice as fast on Chrome compared to Firefox 3, and I believe Firefox was the top Javascript browser.

I ran it in 4 tabs but it made no difference in performance. This is a fluke however, since the test pauses between each sub-test. The entire thing took 40 seconds or so, but it timed it at 1.8 seconds for Chrome, and 3.5 for Firefox 3. I wonder how well Chrome would perform if it ran the test continually in different tabs, with no pause between each tiny sub-test.
 
I like it, but unless they use the plugin system that firefox uses, I wont be using it.
 
The way you can detach and move tabs around is interesting, though I guess that's in part a function of running each tab in it's own process... And I'm not sure I like that. Personally Firefox crashes very very little for me, so I think I'd rather have the one process and a lower memory footprint, I dunno. Guess it remains to be seen how memory usage is handled over time, leaving multiple tabs in multiple windows open over time, etc. FF3 improved over FF2 by leaps and bounds in that regard.

Plus, I've grown sooo dependent on a few FF add-ons, heh... It's almost sad. MiniT, for scrolling thru tabs when the mouse pointer is on the tab bar, is a hard habit to dump. I love ImageZoom (hold right click and zoom w/scroll wheel), and I've been digging Tab Catalog lately. More importantly tho, there's no undo close tab in Chrome and somewhere they insinuated it'd be impossible to implement due to how the tabs are handled? Mehh...
 
Is there a Tab Catalog equivalent functionality in Chrome? i.e. Does it in any way display a preview of your opens tab when you're switching between them? Weighing that and FF's many possible usability tweaks (and add-ons like MiniT(tabscroll)/ImageZoom) vs the new independent tab functionality in Chrome, FF's still my choice, for now. It's not very hard to drag a tab from one FF window to another in any case. :p
 
Chrome is what, not even 12 hours released and all that people seem to be doing is comparing it to Firefox which has:

- a worldwide following for years
- source code that's been out for years
- a huge community of support that's been around for years
- an addon/extensions capability that's been developed for many years
- etc etc

Come on folks, concentrate on the promise of what lies ahead and what fun it could be. Firefox has been around so long it's ubiquitous at this point, and not many people remember just how bad it was in the pre-1.5 days.

Now we all have a chance to "get onboard" with a new browser - a NEW BROWSER and not just some constantly rehashed code that's several generations old (FF 1 through 3.01 ring a bell? IE 1 through 7, and 8 on the way? Ring any bells? Opera 1 through 9.5? DING DING DING) - and see it grow as it's developed.

Come on, do some testing, have some fun with it, tell Google what you think about it, don't just post on a forum someplace where your opinions will most likely get dismissed as only opinions. Throw 'em at Google and see what sticks.
 
visionviper said:
Chrome loads up some websites faster for me, but not all. And there are many little things about it that I don't like - mainly bookmark/navigation related things
Click to expand...

Agreed. The bookmarks are unwieldy and it's a pain in the ass to have to go fishing all the way over on the other side of the browser just for a bookmark. Also, it would be nice to be able to tell it to switch to a new tab when it's opened... just like every other browser in the world does.
 
Joe Average said:
Now we all have a chance to "get onboard" with a new browser - a NEW BROWSER and not just some constantly rehashed code that's several generations old (FF 1 through 3.01 ring a bell? IE 1 through 7, and 8 on the way? Ring any bells? Opera 1 through 9.5? DING DING DING) - and see it grow as it's developed.

Come on, do some testing, have some fun with it, tell Google what you think about it, don't just post on a forum someplace where your opinions will most likely get dismissed as only opinions. Throw 'em at Google and see what sticks.
Click to expand...

Comparing it to FF is only natural, what else would you compare it to? FF was compared to IE and Opera when it came out... Who cares how old the code is? (for FF or Chrome) As far as I'm concerned FF's code base has only improved with time, personally I rarely manage to crash it and I tend to pile on it pretty heavily (to the point where I'd often see 500MB memory footprints in FF2, thankfully FF3 alleviated this a lot). I see FF crash maybe twice a week tops? Is it any less stable for any of ya?

The only really innovative thing I see in Chrome, besides the JavaScript rendering innovations (and IE/FF have similar updates incoming), is the way the tabs are handled in separate processes which seems to facilitate dragging them between windows or popping 'em out, etc. But the massive number of usability tweaks FF allows (thru existing add-ons or otherwise) easily overshadows that for now, for me at 'least.

So I don't really have anything to contribute to Google that I'm sure they're not already aware of. They know what's new in their own product, and they know why people favor FF over IE... The add-ons, the customization, safety/stability, etc. Most of the really specific comments on the thread that they could take as constructive criticism just center around the minimalist interface, or lack of interface, and a few small bugs like mouse/smooth scrolling etc... Stuff that's simply missing in beta stage.
 
Oh and perhaps you're excited by the prospect of seeing an entire new browser being born... But a lot of the people around here were there for Mosaic, Netscape, IE, Opera, FF, etc. I'm sure there's gotta be a few who were online during even earlier stages that could really share some stories, heh. Personally I find the broader implications of Chrome more interesting than the browser itself, it clearly has potential, but if it were not coming from Google it wouldn't be heading anywhere. ;)
 
I liked googles web browser for being out for a day i think it might get to be the best web browser out their
 
Yah, I'm one of those old timers. Hell, I still have Mark Andreessen on my damned Messenger list, just chatted with him a few weeks ago. Never made the money he has but, even so, it's been a long road for pre-Mosaic days to where Chrome has us looking now.

Just irritating to see such possibility get tainted so fast just because "Oh I've run <xxx> for years, I don't need another browser." Thank some higher power the people criticizing it aren't the ones coding it or the damned thing wouldn't have ever seen the light of day. ;)
 
So far I have been pretty happy. Runs as fast as FF with some unmentionable enhancements, even on my AspireOne. Especially on the One, the better use of screen real estate is welcome.

The amount of memory it uses is staggering next to FF/IE, but then again, for every tab it's a new instance of the browser, and with 4gb to throw around, I don't mind it.

I really like the sleek UI. The animations for moving tabs, and being able to drag tabs into and out of their own windows is an ability I have been looking for in each successive browser release from IE and FF, but to no avail.

My only complaint is having to keep the bookmark toolbar open to have access to my bookmarks menu. I have never used a bookmark toolbar and usually close it in FF/IE, relying on the menu itself for my favs. As a result I kind of have a huge blue bar up there right now with ONE button on the right side for bookmarks. Maybe once we start to see add-ons, I can fill it up.
 
I use the bookmark menu and then drag and dropped my bookmarks out onto it to fill the whole thing up personally:

stuffad0.jpg


Or is that not what you were talking about?
 
Loving this browser. Very quick and it renders my office's Outlook Web Access by far the quickest and best compared to FF3 (doesn't work) and IE8 (makes me log in twice to access mail).

It also draws crash.net, probably the slowest, most ad-bloated site I regularly visit better than twice as fast as FF3.

Color me impressed.
 
I'm also enjoying this browser. I can't wait until it fully matures, but even so I don't think I will replace FF with it. I'll just use it side by side.
 
Joe Average said:
Chrome is what, not even 12 hours released and all that people seem to be doing is comparing it to Firefox which has:

- a worldwide following for years
- source code that's been out for years
- a huge community of support that's been around for years
- an addon/extensions capability that's been developed for many years
- etc etc

Come on folks, concentrate on the promise of what lies ahead and what fun it could be. Firefox has been around so long it's ubiquitous at this point, and not many people remember just how bad it was in the pre-1.5 days.

Now we all have a chance to "get onboard" with a new browser - a NEW BROWSER and not just some constantly rehashed code that's several generations old ... Opera 1 through 9.5? DING DING DING) - and see it grow as it's developed.
Click to expand...

To get things straight, Opera's rebuilt it's browser engine several times. Google's just using the Webkit engine found in Apple Safari. Not that fresh and exciting.
 
Modred189 said:
...My only complaint is having to keep the bookmark toolbar open to have access to my bookmarks menu. I have never used a bookmark toolbar and usually close it in FF/IE, relying on the menu itself for my favs. As a result I kind of have a huge blue bar up there right now with ONE button on the right side for bookmarks. Maybe once we start to see add-ons, I can fill it up.
Click to expand...

Use Ctrl + B to hide/unhide the bookmark bar

Also Ctrl + G will open page search bar
 
I don't know about you guys, but I've really noticed how fast this browser is. When Firefox 3 came out I was excited to see how much faster it would be, but was kinda disappointed when I really couldn't tell a difference. I didn't really think about how fast Chrome would be, until I started using it and noticing unusually fast load times. I have to say that using this on my laptop, load times are noticeably faster than anything I've used before.
 
Using the system in my specs [H] forum pages load much faster than Firefox 3.0.1. "Much" is kind of an exaggeration however now I click it is instant vs half a second or so of wait. But it is noticeable. On more complicated pages I cannot tell the difference but Chrome startup also seem faster.
 
babygiorgio1 said:
definitely not better than FF3. FF3 has awesome plugins
Click to expand...

Yes, because the plugins were made by them. That's like saying Ford is better than Chevy, because some guy named Saleen makes special parts for them. I don't base my opinions on such a thing.

Me, I haven't seen any need to swap away from IE. I take care of my computer, so I don't get malware.
 
Impulse said:
Oh and perhaps you're excited by the prospect of seeing an entire new browser being born... But a lot of the people around here were there for Mosaic, Netscape, IE, Opera, FF, etc. I'm sure there's gotta be a few who were online during even earlier stages that could really share some stories, heh. Personally I find the broader implications of Chrome more interesting than the browser itself, it clearly has potential, but if it were not coming from Google it wouldn't be heading anywhere. ;)
Click to expand...

Hell yeah, I remember running IE 3 under Windows 3.1. "Microsoft Internet Mail and News" had an animation showing an envelope that travelled across the screen when you received mail. However the animation would often lock up on our 486, taking down the entire OS with it :p

I also remember running iBrowse, AVWeb and Voyager on the Amiga1200 and waiting *forever* for them to implement Frames and other basic features, and trying to decide between surfing at 256 colors or switch to HAM-8 (256,000 colors) and deal with the unbearable sluggishness and lag ;)

Chrome isn't really a "new" browser since it's based on WebKit just like Safari and Konqueror. It's fun to check out but Firefox with addons is far more usable because of the huge number of addons available and the fact that it's a familiar user interface where you know every button, menu item and keyboard shortcut. Most of us have also customized the browser in many different ways to suit our online habits.
 
krotch said:
Yes, because the plugins were made by them. That's like saying Ford is better than Chevy, because some guy named Saleen makes special parts for them. I don't base my opinions on such a thing.

Me, I haven't seen any need to swap away from IE. I take care of my computer, so I don't get malware.
Click to expand...

They didn't make the plugins, but they do enhance the user experience you get when running their software.
Most of the software you use on your Windows system isn't made by Microsoft, either, but the huge software library is one reason why many still run Windows even though they would prefer to switch to Linux or OSX.
 
JimmiG said:
They didn't make the plugins, but they do enhance the user experience you get when running their software.
Most of the software you use on your Windows system isn't made by Microsoft, either, but the huge software library is one reason why many still run Windows even though they would prefer to switch to Linux or OSX.
Click to expand...

Yes, but I'm not stating that Windows is better than Linux or OSX because of the software library.

I will say that I use Windows because it has a larger software library.
 
krotch said:
Yes, but I'm not stating that Windows is better than Linux or OSX because of the software library.

I will say that I use Windows because it has a larger software library.
Click to expand...

Windows itself isn't better because of it. However, Windows is a better *choice* if you want lots of software to choose from. Same with FF - if you want to customize your browsing experience, it's the best choice.
 
Actually I have quite an idea what the browser does for Google:

It shields them from ANY LAWSUIT using YOU as a SHIELD.

Just by "displaying" any content YOU grant google the right to publish etc.... So if the owner of the content would like to sue Google over unfair use etc. they can say: Wait! XYZ granted us the right to do so, go after them! We can't check if they actually had the right to grant us the right, they told us they had.

Doing that practically is rather easy I'd guess. Individual id's created for each browser on install as well as IP's and trace logged.

Maybe that also works for youtube content? You "display" the video and voila, Google may publish it. With all those lawsuits that may pay of for Google rather quick.

If end users are eventually sued is another question. I would think that the possibility is there but as the amount of individual charges might be quite large it might just go astray.

Would be interesting to hear a lawyers take on that.
 
This thing is fast. Although I wish there was an option for links/bookmarks to open on new tabs.
 
Tons of problem at work with our proxy. Pages loading slow, wrong layout and site will not load. It also wouldnt maximize to full screen on the 24inch connected to the laptop at work.

Works great at home on another 24.
 
From other screenshots, especially from websites, I've noticed most are using XP and are not taking the shots with maximized windows. I read at first some people complain about that empty blue space at the top. I guess maybe under XP, when maximized, the title bar space is blank. But on my computer, with Vista, the tab bar takes over the title bar so there is very little wasted screen real estate.

With the mouse-over popups that replace the status bar, this takes the same amount of space as my Firefox installation where I have only one bar at the top (the menu bar, which has all my buttons and the address bar in one line).

The only downside is I can't use F-11 to fully maximize.

 
Well,

It's slower than FF faster than IE 8, but I've changed the Pipelining settings in FF. I've checked on a few work boxes of varying specs and OS's they all seem to tell the same tale (pipelining on or not). I've no idea what crack pipe some peeps were smoking when they say it's quicker than FF as I'm guess they aren't clean installs on clean OS's.

Other than that, I'm disappointed by the use of the same proxy server setting that IE uses (which prevents side by side comparisons and general proxy server debugging) and the fact that the blue window edges can't be changed (which just look naff IMO), but the addition of Dev tools makes it well worth having around, thou I can't see uptake being big unless google start stealth bundling it with over products (which I've no doubt they will).
 
JimmiG said:
Windows itself isn't better because of it. However, Windows is a better *choice* if you want lots of software to choose from. Same with FF - if you want to customize your browsing experience, it's the best choice.
Click to expand...

IE has plugins also. As for customizing browsing experience, not sure which would be better. It definitely isn't IE, but FF and Safari have a huge amount of plugins. Opera has about as much as IE it seems.
 
I love this web browser.

It is noticeably faster for site that have always give me trouble loading. But what really appeals to me is the fact that each tab has their own process, and one troublesom one will not crash the rest

I had this problem with IE often, where one tab crash make the entire browser hang and upon shutting it down, my download goes off as well.

Looking forward for it to go out of Beta and start having plugins
 
OS compatability:

I just fired it up next to Firefox and failed the first test. Basic OS compatability.

I did a windows tile vertically and it did not respond at all. It doesn't seem to register at all as a normal window. So it won't play nice and tile.

Memory:

Next I fired up Chrome/Opera/FF and loaded up my favorite pages on each.

Opera consistently used the least memory, Chrome consistently the most.

Speed:
They were all very fast. Maybe if I hit a script intensive page, I might see something, but where I regularly go, there might be milliseconds difference in page render speed. A complete non issue. Anyone have an example of a slow page that Chrome speeds up?

Features:

The best Chrome feature is the separate processes and built in task manager. Very nice. But FF is rock stable for me at home. So this is not a "killer feature". If all else was equal, I would want this, BUT....

All else is NOT equal. This is a beta. It has no features. You can barely configure behavior, there is no flashblock (I won't use a browser without flashblock). Full stop right here. If your browser forces me to have dancing crap on my screen I won't use it. I always browse with flash blocked and image animation off. The net is a newspaper to me.

Summary:

Nice skeleton, wake me up when it is actually usable, but I would be surprised to see Firefox go multiprocess before Chrome goes usable.
 
I think Chrome is really freaking fast at rendering, but it doesn't seem to like image-heavy pages. I found myself wishing for Adblock again, although I'm sure that is coming soon. They can't hope to replace Forefox with this and not include some kind of plug-in functionality.

I like the "Incognito mode" too, very slick and well implemented. Like Gmail all the cool functionality is under the hood, so unless you play around with the browser you'll just see the simple front end.
 
posting on chrome, and so far i really like this browser. granted, i will be going back to FF3 until some of the kinks are ironed out. one particular thing that i dont like at the moment, is the fact that hotmail (or any other windows live site) wont load on chrome. my favorite part is when you attempt to load one of these pages it says "please upgrade your web browser" lol.
 
I was interested in using it till i seen the small print notice.

I think it'll end in the niche of anynymous porn browser :D
 
Hornet said:
I love this web browser.

It is noticeably faster for site that have always give me trouble loading. But what really appeals to me is the fact that each tab has their own process, and one troublesom one will not crash the rest

I had this problem with IE often, where one tab crash make the entire browser hang and upon shutting it down, my download goes off as well.

Looking forward for it to go out of Beta and start having plugins
Click to expand...

Been playing with IE8. A single crap tab won't crash the browser or anything else. Just that one tab. Course I haven't had a tab crash yet. Don't really see any huge difference between IE7, except different colored tabs and compatibility.

A lot of websites aren't designed around standards, but around IE. You'll notice this with IE8, as the website will show up completely incorrect, since IE8 follows all standards now. Microsoft was smart with this and have a compatibility button to make it render as IE7. I've ended up having to use it a lot.

I haven't gotten the Chrome yet to play with, but I can't imagine it'll make me change. If it's all got the same functionality, ppl will stick with what they are use to or like. I'm use to IE, as it's what I use at home and at work.
 
Michaelius said:
I was interested in using it till i seen the small print notice.

I think it'll end in the niche of anynymous porn browser :D
Click to expand...

IE8, FF, and Safari already have porn mode. Not sure if Opera does as I couldn't stand to use that browser.
 
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