The Gamer's Bill of Rights Unveiled

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The Gamer's Bill of Rights has been unveiled today. Of the ten “rights” listed, I personally think that number eight on the list is the most important. In fact, I think number eight would actually eliminate the need for at least two of the other rights listed.

Gamers shall have the right to not be treated as potential criminals by developers or publishers.
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Well, at least it was a gaming company that released it. If it was some disgruntled gamer this would be highly pointless. Of course now Stardock will be held to the standards listed, but if I remember correctly most of their games already follow these guidelines.

202276
 
Did anyone care to notice the express wording of this list?

It says you have the right to EXPECT and DEMAND.

Hell we've always had the right to EXPECT and DEMAND....doesn't mean it ever got us anywhere...
 
The wonderful thing is, Stardock already lives up to these standards (including the refunds). Check out their digi-distribution platform Impulse if you haven't yet. They're quickly becoming a favorite company of mine.

http://www.impulsedriven.com/
 
Over the past few years Stardock has quickly become my favorite developer. No so much for their games, which are good, but for the way they treat their customers.

This is really a great list they've come up with!
 
Stardock is also one of my favorites as well. Not so much for their games,(they are good apparently, but just not my favorite genre), but for the way they conduct business.

They seem to be succeeding with their current practices, so I suspect they will be around for a while.
Of course not having the pirated version of their product being superior to the legit version can't be hurting them.
 
Nice list, but I doubt it's going to change anything unfortunatley.
 
Hmm, this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
I wont use Stardock software because whenever I install it, after a while my firewall alerts me that my Browser, Email etc requires a stardock dll to connect otherwise I cannot use the internet.
If I allow the dll to access the internet, it works fine.

So basically their software holds you to ransom in that if you want to use it, you need allow it to access the internet through everything you use the internet with.
Too dodgy for me.
 
Without trying to turn this into a political battleground, is there a central area to see what a particular politician's views are on gaming/technology? I know Lieberman at one point tried to pull some shens in regards to making things more difficult to purchase games, but it would be nice to see what the presidential hopefuls' stances on thing like the RIAA, net neutrality and things of that nature.

That being said, great link, thanks for posting it.
 
Nenu, never had that happen to me... I hold Stardock in very high regard as I love their Gal civ and SINS games. Interesting set of rights they came up with though.
 
Nenu said:
Hmm, this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
I wont use Stardock software because whenever I install it, after a while my firewall alerts me that my Browser, Email etc requires a stardock dll to connect otherwise I cannot use the internet.
If I allow the dll to access the internet, it works fine.

So basically their software holds you to ransom in that if you want to use it, you need allow it to access the internet through everything you use the internet with.
Too dodgy for me.
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Sounds to me like you should be looking at your firewall, not Stardock. What you're talking about would be an LSP installed by Stardock, and I can't think of any of their games that would require that level of access to your network traffic. LSPs are usually installed by VPN software, data compression protocols, or security products like anti-virus and firewalls; software that requires everything be filtered for one reason or another.
 
Gamers shall have the right to demand that a single-player game not force them to be connected to the Internet every time they wish to play.
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I frankly don't care about that anymore. That's not to say that everyone doesn't, but I don't feel like this is one of those things we should be necessarily be entitled to.
 
I am tempted to buy Sins of a Solar Empire mainly to support the company. I have little interest in the game itself.
 
phide said:
I frankly don't care about that anymore. That's not to say that everyone doesn't, but I don't feel like this is one of those things we should be necessarily be entitled to.
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I disagree. Requiring an online connection to start up or play a single-player games tends to go together with the concept of treating PC gamers as criminals. It's another DRM/authentication method used by the distributors; there's no benefit for the gamer.
 
I'm a little confused by GPG being the other dev mentioned...

Didn't they basically abandon support for Supreme Commander to work on their new title?
 
IF I happen to like a game and it is on my notebook, I do not want to have to search for a connection to play a game that does NOTHING after it connects, besides telling me I have a good copy. ESPECIALLY if it is a single player game.

Stardock has screwed many gamers systems to the wall in the last couple of years, so it will take a while of them acting good before they get my out and out trust (especially since they denied most of it as long as they could)
 
I wish Sega would do this. Got tiered of Phantasy Star Universe closing down every time something pops up.
 
Godlyfrog said:
Sounds to me like you should be looking at your firewall, not Stardock. What you're talking about would be an LSP installed by Stardock, and I can't think of any of their games that would require that level of access to your network traffic. LSPs are usually installed by VPN software, data compression protocols, or security products like anti-virus and firewalls; software that requires everything be filtered for one reason or another.
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Its because I am using a very good firewall that I am able to trap the events.
Most firewalls dont embed themselves deep enough and arent able to prevent this kind of internet access.
I use Comodo for the record.

I have to question why they are inserting themselves into my internet stack.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layered_Service_Provider
Once in the stack, a Layered Service Provider can intercept and modify inbound and outbound Internet traffic.
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It doesnt happen with most software but some like ATITool do the same thing.
These are downloaded from legitimate sources so are untampered with.
 
Nenu said:
Its because I am using a very good firewall that I am able to trap the events.
Most firewalls dont embed themselves deep enough and arent able to prevent this kind of internet access.
I use Comodo for the record.

I have to question why they are inserting themselves into my internet stack.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Layered_Service_Provider


It doesnt happen with most software but some like ATITool do the same thing.
These are downloaded from legitimate sources so are untampered with.
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Do you know for a fact that they've inserted such an LSP, though? I was suggesting that the only way for it to block all traffic would be as an LSP, which is unlikely. To make sure, I'd suggest using a tool like LSPFix to look, or, running "netsh winsock show catalog" from a command prompt and looking for what you do have there.

Where you are thinking that Stardock is preventing access until you allow it access, I'm thinking that Comodo is blocking all traffic until you approve the request. If I recall (I don't use PC-based firewalls), Comodo is very heavily rule based, and has some rules intended to block all traffic. I'm not defending Stardock, but I find it more likely that a program designed to block network traffic is at fault in your case than a game developer's DRM which would have a hard time explaining why it needs to be involved in all your network traffic.
 
SockMan! said:
It's another DRM/authentication method used by the distributors; there's no benefit for the gamer.
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Unfortunately, life isn't all roses. I for one think effective, non-invasive digital rights management can be beneficial to gamers as a whole. If a slight annoyance curbs piracy (which in most cases, it does not), that has the potential to increase a game's sales, and that's generally a beneficial thing for gamers.

The key problem is that these authentication processes probably don't curb piracy in any significant way, and most DRM systems (SecuROM, for example) tend to be excessively aggressive and annoying without being the slightest bit effective.
 
if this were to be adopted AMEN!!! x infinity!! it would be awsome!!

PC gamers need something diff from console gamers, they are diff in so many ways!

PC gamers will drop money with out question to those who provide good content (even if it turns out crap - how many people bought UT3 with out question...)

this would make such a diff!
 
I hate having to have the cd in the drive to play a game, it absolutely destroys laptop gaming. I cant even think about playing old command and conquer RTS without the CD.

Overall, a very truthful list.
 
[EDIT] 08.29.08 - if i could

i went to their site (personally i didnt know who the company was until i went to their site and saw some games they made)

(suggestion : 'How did you hear about us? " add "internet forum - and a field to specify:eek:ne or more sites)

I think you're recent gamer rights has sparked ALLOT of attention , on some of the largest forums around, if you don't already, i would suggest creating accounts to further contribute your fantastic ideals and thought to those forums that seem to be welcoming your thoughts with open arms and are behind you in support...

Hardocp: [H] (i am MrGuvernment)
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1340813


OCF (i am Mr.Guvernment)
http://www.ocforums.com/showthread.php?t=575939

XS (MrGuvernment there)

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=200226


I think the more you push this and gain the support of one of the largest financial markets of gaming around (check WoW / Valve and CoD4 [other i am sure but i can not say myself] for numbers and compare to console - PC gaming far out numbers players online easily)

Personally, the more you push this... the further it can go, to gain more support from PC gamers, would be an epic accomplishment for PC gaming overall!
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P.S - i have had some rum & cokes so my typing may not be perfect :)
 
Godlyfrog said:
Do you know for a fact that they've inserted such an LSP, though? I was suggesting that the only way for it to block all traffic would be as an LSP, which is unlikely. To make sure, I'd suggest using a tool like LSPFix to look, or, running "netsh winsock show catalog" from a command prompt and looking for what you do have there.

Where you are thinking that Stardock is preventing access until you allow it access, I'm thinking that Comodo is blocking all traffic until you approve the request. If I recall (I don't use PC-based firewalls), Comodo is very heavily rule based, and has some rules intended to block all traffic. I'm not defending Stardock, but I find it more likely that a program designed to block network traffic is at fault in your case than a game developer's DRM which would have a hard time explaining why it needs to be involved in all your network traffic.
Click to expand...

It must be an LSP as its a stardock dll in question that is asking to connect to the internet.
I didnt ever assume that stardock are blocking my internet.
I am wondering why they are inserted into my connection though!
 
phide said:
Unfortunately, life isn't all roses. I for one think effective, non-invasive digital rights management can be beneficial to gamers as a whole. If a slight annoyance curbs piracy (which in most cases, it does not), that has the potential to increase a game's sales, and that's generally a beneficial thing for gamers.
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I personally believe that piracy has little impact on the sales of a game, so I don't believe DRM is of any substantial benefit to the consumer.
 
Lamont said:
What's the definition of "finished state"?
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I am not sure about their or anyone else's definition, but mine is: "A game that does not require a patch to run properly for 95% of people or more on day of release." Run properly = no game breaking bugs. Game breaking bugs = bugs that do not allow you to finish the game, or detract from the gameplay so much that you can't bear to play it.

Of course there will be bugs, exploits, and such that need patching after release. This is the PC we are talking about. But game breaking bugs should be worked out for the most part prior to release.
 
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