Nehalem Webcast Discussion

jfolds said:
I haven't seen any mention of the octa core chips... I really wanted one of those on launch day
But I did see some mention of a 6 core xeon bloomfield cpu, anyone got any info on that chip?
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octo cores are beckton MP, >2 socket server chip, and they'll be a while.
6 core is dunnington, which is 3 wolfdales on one package, not a nehalem chip. 6 core nehalem based chips will wait until the next tock, 32nm westfield. AFAIK.
 
Hypernova said:
I have doubts on how shutting down unused cores is going to work out, considering that one of the main task of a modern OS is loading every core it can lay hands on evenly.
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While one task of a modern OS is to load up every available core, how often does that happen under current usage patterns? Few applications are multithreaded, and even fewer are multicore-aware (the number of *current* multicore-aware games for the PC can be counted on two hands with digits left over, despite virtual multicore, in the form of HTT, being five years old).

While the OS support is there, the apps aren't there yet.
 
farfromhome said:
If you're going to post an Expreview-leaked roadmap, you might as well post the latest one, which goes all the way out to Q3. :)

intelcpuroadmapq32008q3wb9.png




From all the information we've heard so far, there will be no dual-core equivalent of Bloomfield on LGA 1366, at least not anytime in the next year. The dual cores will be Havendales on LGA 1160 (which will also be the socket for quad-core Lynnfields), which will all include integrated graphics (though I'm sure you'll be able to bypass it and use discrete if you so desire).
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I don't see why not, since G33 (current Intel chipset with integrated graphics) supports Conroe, Kentsfield, Wolfdale, and even Yorkfield (and even has a discrete-graphics option with boards such as Intel's own DG33 Media Series).

While you can't overclock the CPU, you *can* pair up a Q9450 and a single HD4870 x2 on one.
 
PGHammer said:
I don't see why not, since G33 (current Intel chipset with integrated graphics) supports Conroe, Kentsfield, Wolfdale, and even Yorkfield (and even has a discrete-graphics option with boards such as Intel's own DG33 Media Series).
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There is certainly no reason Intel can't make a dual-core or integrated-graphics varient of Bloomfield to run on socket LGA 1366, but what I was saying is that there is nothing on Intel's roadmap that implies that they will. Ditto with the socket split; it is all but confirmed at this point that Bloomfield and Lynnfield/Havendale will have different sockets. My guess is that Westmere will similarly be split between LGA 1366 at the high-end and LGA 1160 at the mid-end and low-end.

I'm not quite sure you understand the integrated graphics situation though. Neither Tylesburg (X58), the chipset for LGA 1366 (Bloomfield), nor Ibex Peak, the chipset on the roadmap for LGA 1160 (for Lynnfield and Havendale CPU's), will include integrated graphics. To repeat: neither chipset has integrated graphics at all, period, even the lowest of low-end.

The integrated graphics, rather, will be on the CPU itself for dual-core Havendales, not on the chipset. All I was trying to say is that, on Intel's roadmap as of now, there are no quad-core CPU's with integrated graphics, not dual-core CPU's without. The chipset is getting less and less important with more of the features being on the CPU; bereft of the need of a memory controller, the X58 Northbridge basically just holds the PCI-Express lanes, and Ibex Peak will have no Northbridge and basically just be an "ICH11" IO hub and nothing else, as the 16 PCI-Express lanes and/or integrated graphics will themselves be on the CPU die, not the chipset.
 
farfromhome said:
There is certainly no reason Intel can't make a dual-core or integrated-graphics varient of Bloomfield to run on socket LGA 1366, but what I was saying is that there is nothing on Intel's roadmap that implies that they will. Ditto with the socket split; it is all but confirmed at this point that Bloomfield and Lynnfield/Havendale will have different sockets. My guess is that Westmere will similarly be split between LGA 1366 at the high-end and LGA 1160 at the mid-end and low-end.

I'm not quite sure you understand the integrated graphics situation though. Neither Tylesburg (X58), the chipset for LGA 1366 (Bloomfield), nor Ibex Peak, the chipset on the roadmap for LGA 1160 (for Lynnfield and Havendale CPU's), will include integrated graphics. To repeat: neither chipset has integrated graphics at all, period, even the lowest of low-end.

The integrated graphics, rather, will be on the CPU itself for dual-core Havendales, not on the chipset. All I was trying to say is that, on Intel's roadmap as of now, there are no quad-core CPU's with integrated graphics, not dual-core CPU's without. The chipset is getting less and less important with more of the features being on the CPU; bereft of the need of a memory controller, the X58 Northbridge basically just holds the PCI-Express lanes, and Ibex Peak will have no Northbridge and basically just be an "ICH11" IO hub and nothing else, as the 16 PCI-Express lanes and/or integrated graphics will themselves be on the CPU die, not the chipset.
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That would seem to imply that, starting with Core i7, that quad-core and above will be the mainstream processor for the foreseeable future (accelerating the trend that Intel started with Kentsfield/Yorkfield).

Discrete graphics, not integrated graphics, is the mainstream definer when it comes to complete systems (despite the increased performance starting to become available with integrated graphics chipsets such as AMD's 780G and even Intel's own G33). This is also why G33 in particular retains a discrete-graphics option.

Integrated graphics and quad-core? That's not merely doable, but it's actually being done (specifically by Dell, with the Inspiron 1530, which is designed around a variation of the DG33 Media Series Intel Desktop Board; Dell's configurations are now primarily built around either the Q6600 or Q9300, with the onboard graphics as standard fare, and discrete graphics by AMD as an option); it was precisely because of systems like the Inspiron that I expected a desktop board like the DG33 to show up. However, should this hold true, it would indicate that motherboards that straddle the fence (such as the DG33) between budget/value and mainstream could vanish. Also, with all two-core i7s sporting on-die graphics, that would seem to take one of the two cores somewhat out of play if it will be used even partially as a GPU core.

Comparisons of these new two-core parts with the existing dual-cores in the budget segment (especially when paired with a system board such as the DG33) will be interesting; however, unless the performance gain is astounding, I won't be recommending a two-core i7 system, even as a budget system, because they will seem underpowered compared to even existing dual-core Celerons (such as E1200) let alone Allendale, Conroe-L, or Wolfdale (this is Kentsfield's last year, and Yorkfield replaces it as the mainstream Intel quad-core CPU family). Even more telling is that there is no integrated-graphics version of Ibex Peak, as G33 is the integrated-graphics version of P35/P43, which Ibex Peak will eventually replace, and, as I stated, G33 supports Yorkfield and Kentsfield today.
 
PGHammer said:
That...today.
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What? Specifically with regards to the dual core on package graphics thing.

Onboard graphics for nehalem arent using the CPU as a GPU, nor is the GPU even on die. Its a seperate die in the CPU's package, much like current yorkfields are 2 dies on one package. As far as being underpowered, a dual core nehalem will be faster clock for clock than any current chip, AND will show up as 4 logical cores courtesy of hyperthreading. Plenty powerful for more people.

TDP will be excellent as well, especially when you consider that havendale will be under 100W, including GPU. Thats pretty cool for including the IMC and GPU on package.

Thats also one reason that auburndale (mobile dual core) looks so sweet. Low power chips should be running 35W including IMC and GPU, far less than those parts run today today.
 
GLSauron said:
octo cores are beckton MP, >2 socket server chip, and they'll be a while.
6 core is dunnington, which is 3 wolfdales on one package, not a nehalem chip. 6 core nehalem based chips will wait until the next tock, 32nm westfield. AFAIK.
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Actually Dunnington is a single die new processor that uses Wolfdale cores, 1st Intel product with more than 2 cores on a single die.They've jumped to 6 :p.
 
I was hoping that there'd be an S775 variation of Dunnington ever since I first saw it on some slides, but to no avail, it would appear.
I'll have to see what happens with the Nehalem introduction... Will I do a full Nehalem upgrade, or do the S775 quadcores drop even further in price, and should I extend my S775 system's lifetime with one of those?
Currently there are two unknowns:
1) Price/performance of Nehalems at introduction
2) The effect of Nehalem on Core2 Quad pricing
 
savantu said:
Actually Dunnington is a single die new processor that uses Wolfdale cores, 1st Intel product with more than 2 cores on a single die.They've jumped to 6 :p.
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Hmm. Interesting. I though nehalem was the first native >2 core design.

So intel will use dunnington as the upgrade path for s604, and will move to nehalem's chips for the QPI based server designs.
 
GLSauron said:
Hmm. Interesting. I though nehalem was the first native >2 core design.

So intel will use dunnington as the upgrade path for s604, and will move to nehalem's chips for the QPI based server designs.
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Here's the beauty :

dunnington.jpg


3MB L2 per 2 cores and a shared 16MB L3.
 
Okay so im trying to read that roadmap and im rather confused, witch chips are the nehalems?
 
Man, I worry about

A. Prices for these things
B. If there will even be mATX boards at launch.

Otherwise, i'll just upgrade to a Penyrn setup.
 
GLSauron said:
What? Specifically with regards to the dual core on package graphics thing.

Onboard graphics for nehalem arent using the CPU as a GPU, nor is the GPU even on die. Its a seperate die in the CPU's package, much like current yorkfields are 2 dies on one package. As far as being underpowered, a dual core nehalem will be faster clock for clock than any current chip, AND will show up as 4 logical cores courtesy of hyperthreading. Plenty powerful for more people.

TDP will be excellent as well, especially when you consider that havendale will be under 100W, including GPU. Thats pretty cool for including the IMC and GPU on package.

Thats also one reason that auburndale (mobile dual core) looks so sweet. Low power chips should be running 35W including IMC and GPU, far less than those parts run today today.
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Why would Intel bring back HTT support at the low end?

Though the support has long been available since Prescott, it's only *turned on* in the C2E and XEON processors (all other Core family CPUs have HTT turned off by default on the die). The last desktop CPU with HTT support was the P4 3.2E (Prescott), before that, it was primarily via the Northwood-C
 
Core/Core2 don't have HT at all, you can't turn on what isn't there.
Only Netburst had HT.
Nehalem is bringing back HT after a 2-year hiatus.
 
PGHammer said:
Even more telling is that there is no integrated-graphics version of Ibex Peak, as G33 is the integrated-graphics version of P35/P43, which Ibex Peak will eventually replace, and, as I stated, G33 supports Yorkfield and Kentsfield today.
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To add to my previous quote of you, ibix peak is a SOUTHbridge chip. Its ICH10. Graphics arent on the southbridge today, they are on the northbridge. And everything thats on the northbridge today is onboard the CPU package as of nehalem. Graphics and memory controller both. (and a dual core with onboard graphics doesnt use a core for graphics anymore than G45 does today).
Though the support has long been available since Prescott, it's only *turned on* in the C2E and XEON processors (all other Core family CPUs have HTT turned off by default on the die). The last desktop CPU with HTT support was the P4 3.2E (Prescott), before that, it was primarily via the Northwood-C
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No core archetecture chip (conroe -> dunningham) has hyperthreading on the chip. None. Nehalem brings back SMT because it lets you use the resources onboard more effectively. Less idle execution units means more work in the same time.
 
I'm just wondering why if we are really only 17 days from launch why a specific date hasn't been given, and, why we haven't actually seen real world discounts.
 
jerryrigged said:
I'm just wondering why if we are really only 17 days from launch why a specific date hasn't been given, and, why we haven't actually seen real world discounts.
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same shit happens with gpu's we only got release dates confirmed etc for the nvidia 260's/280's a few weeks before
 
Freezebyte said:
Man, I worry about

A. Prices for these things
B. If there will even be mATX boards at launch.

Otherwise, i'll just upgrade to a Penyrn setup.
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Leaked prices for the chips (in lots of 1000) are reportedly ~$1000, $500, and $280. I've started ordering secondary components of the system now. Mobo/ram/cpu/gpu are the only parts I'm waiting for release model benchmarks before buying, everything else I intend to have inhand before then. The first to make sure I get a stable one, the second to see if 2xddr3-1600 or 3xdrr3-1333 is faster, and the gpu because of rumors of an nVidia refresh.

Edit: everything except the water block, need to wait for adaptors to be available to leave the initial air setup behind. :mad:
 
oh, and the official NDA expires tomorrow IIRC, so we'll see a FLOOD of information at midnight.
 
GLSauron said:
oh, and the official NDA expires tomorrow IIRC, so we'll see a FLOOD of information at midnight.
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I thought they were going to be released on the 11th, so that's more likely for the NDA to expire. Perhaps Kyle or someone else can correct me if I'm wrong.
 
SharpieFiend said:
I thought they were going to be released on the 11th, so that's more likely for the NDA to expire. Perhaps Kyle or someone else can correct me if I'm wrong.
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16/17th is our best info for release, but as I said, Ive heard the 2nd for the NDA to drop.
edit: I could be wrong of course. /me watches clock tick past 1AM EDT without any reviews being posted.
/me watches the clock tick past 1AM EST without any reviews being posted,
:( Guess I was wrong.

I WAS wrong. Heres proof of it dropping tomorrow, not today. http://www.guru3d.com/news/starting-tomorrow-on-guru3d/ So I was off by a day.

edit2: yup. off by a day. Enjoy!
 
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