shipping with or without insurance..

Its the sellers responsibility to make sure that the buyer receives the product in the condition agreed upon in the deal.

As for insurance, it is fairly common sense for the seller to insure, just in case the product is damaged during shipping. Otherwise, the seller will likely have to eat the cost of the damaged product when the item is returned.

killster1 said:
btw how do i deny the package but open it in front of them? should i hold the possibly broken box till i have time to go to post office monday (hard to deny it but keep it till monday (post office is closed sat here and wont be home when it gets here..? ? very silly
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I believe you either deny the delivery outright, when it is first delivered. Or, if the delivery person is willing to wait/watch, open it in front of them at your doorstep so you have a third party who can vouch for physical damage to the product.
 
Any decent seller is going to ship and insure the package for replacement value. Sound's like he's trying to be clever when there'd have been no problem if the package had been insured. That's why I think its best to EXPLICITLY mention all the details of shipping in a sale.
 
I think it's the unified opinion of most traders that it's the sellers responsibility to get the item intact to the buyer. As a seller, I would NEVER ship something without insurance, unless it was something I was personally willing to eat the cost of refunding the buyer on if there was a problem. It is their property until it is delivered to you in the condition it was described in. Imagine ordering something from newegg, and having it arrived damaged. Do you think that if you call them, they'll tell you tough luck? I don't think so....

If a seller doesn't specifically state something is being shipped insured, I would highly recommend asking; and be willing to pay a bit extra on shipping for the insurance. It's still their responsibility to get it to you safely, but it doesn't hurt to be proactive in making sure they're doing their job.
 
Oldie is right on in my mind. Its the seller's responsibility to get the item to the buyer in the condition described. They didn't pay for a broken item. Sellers should require the buyer pay for insurance or build it into their pricing.
 
taylorwilsdon said:
Oldie is right on in my mind. Its the seller's responsibility to get the item to the buyer in the condition described. They didn't pay for a broken item. Sellers should require the buyer pay for insurance or build it into their pricing.
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If you agree its the sellers responsibilty to get the item as described to the buyer why in the world would you think the buyer should be charged for insurance if its the sellers responsibilty??

Its this busted mentality thats like a plague around here.

The buyers job is to pay and recieve, the sellers job is to make sure the buyer recieves. If a package is lost or damaged during shipping it is 100% the sellers responsibility. If the seller did not buy insurance then he should learn an expensive lesson and make it right with the buyer.
 
Since I'm assuming that killster1 is going to point back to this thread and say 'see, told ya' so.', I figure I'll respond here, since I'm the party he's talking about.

First off, to insure or not to insure is the sellers choice. If they buyer insists on it, then the seller can choose to pass the insurance charge onto the buyer, and the buyer dually has the right to refuse the new cost.

Now, in the case mentioned above, (and there's no reason to go into ALL of the specifics of our agreement, unless killster1 wants to) I chose to insure the item beyond what he paid for it, and chose to upgrade the shipping, all at no cost to the buyer. I did this because I felt bad about the fact that he had sent PP payment, which was transferred to my bank account during the time at which I was on a 2-week vacation.

As for USPS, they have policy that if enough tangible proof is given, even without insurance, they will pay to have the damage rectified. I have timestamped digital photos of the item working right before packaging, and then taking that same packaging directly to USPS. I also requested that killster1 proceed to take a quick picture or so of the packaging once it arrives, just as proof of shipping condition.

Now, please understand, I don't care what happens with USPS. If the item arrives at his doorstep defective, I will refund the full amount received regardless, and request that he simply return the phone. I'll even chuck in 1/2 the shipping as a show of good faith.

I know that killster1 still somewhat has concerns that I will not hold up to my end, and I hope that all of this is really for nothing, but I would like to assuage his fears that, just because I only have 6 Heat, doesn't make me any less of a buyer/seller/techie.

killster1, you know how to reach me. If you want my cell #, it's yours, no biggie. I trust that you will be fair and honest about everything. Just let me know when the phone comes in and the condition it arrives in.
 
well hopefully you read this and everyones thoughts on it.. phone was fine of course but wanted you to realize thats not how it works. (why would anyone use insurance if everything is covered if you take a "time date " picture ()which means nothing to me.. can set the date to what ever you want it to..)

seller = responsible for package arriving how stated..

also seller = responsible for including insurance in price unless noted..
 
killster1, I agree on the time/date stamp thing. Anyway, I'm glad to hear that everything was fine with the phone. If you need the original ROM to flash back to WM5 (highly doubt it), you can get it off of HTC's site, or I would be happy to provide a download page with all the ROMs for it that I have.

As for everyone's thoughts, I'm not disagreeing with anything said here. I have my personal take on things, and 99% of the time I ship with insurance anyway. The only exceptions I take are on known-dead items that someone is using for parts/fixing up.

Sorry for all the commotion, I *really* didn't mean for the drama. Killster1, just to recap, you are a great buyer. Even though you and I had different expectations on some things, and I think that we might have had a little miscommunication because of it, I really would be happy to do business with you again.

My take-away from all this is that most buyers are *expecting* insurance, which is a plausible expectation given the nature of sensitive electronics. I will make sure to make my stance on this much clearer in my thread for future sales/transactions.

Thanks again, and if you have *any* questions about the phone, please don't hesitate to ask.

PS - Sorry for being a bit of a 'grouch' in my emails. That wasn't fair either. I was put-off because of a comment in our PMs, and it was compounded by stuff at work that really had nothing to do with us. Sorry man.
 
I use to mod for xtremesystems in the classifieds a few years ago and I would always recommend all sellers to get insurance. Include it in your asking price or whatever but just get insurance and 99% of all disputes were handled without trouble. It's just not worth the money saved for all the time wasted over a dispute that could have been avoided...
 
Always ship with insurance, you never know what some of the low wage dudes do with the boxes.... Reminding me of the beginning of the first Ace Ventura.
 
just put your self on the buyer's shoes.

or atleast have the courtesy to offer insurance to cover your a$$
 
Although this is slightly off-topic but from what I can determine from Nightops replies, he is a great seller. Nice job dude, if all seller could be as pleasant as you, that would rock.
On topic, when I sell stuffs I do assume the responsibilities of insuring stuffs. Based on my 2 horrendous experiences with USPS, insurance is the least I would do with them. Also, even when you purchase the insurance, make sure you have the receipt as well. I was turned down once because although I have the insurance stub AND the delivery confirmation stub (to show that I bought delivery confirmation), I did not have the receipt (at least that was what the branch employee and manager told me). My item to the seller ended up somewhere in Wyoming's sorting center and I had to refund the buyer $150+.
Also as a seller, insurance not only protect the buyer but personally, I think it protects the seller more.
 
thats gay i don't think u would need the receipt too. oh well.

always insure, its when u don't the first time that it will get ya ;)
 
i insure every package (as seller) I'm not willing to eat if something goes wrong. If I'm the buyer I expect that my goods will be delivered as described or seller will refund or otherwise make it right. It's on seller to provide insurance if nothing is stated, if his thread specifically states publicly upfront that insurance is optional, then that's fine, buyer has a choice about it then.
 
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