NEC MultiSync LCD3090WQXi-BK spotted

pawstar said:
Gah! Whats up with QC these days. This is inexcusable - at least the replacement had free shipping both ways. At least they acknowledge the existence of the problem as opposed to saying your case is unique and you probably are at fault.
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Yes, screen uniformity is a common risk factor for LCD.
As we know, even LED BL does not gaurantee anything - neither for 30" nor for 20".

Good customer service is right in time here.
 
albovin said:
Yes, screen uniformity is a common risk factor for LCD.
As we know, even LED BL does not gaurantee anything - neither for 30" nor for 20".

Good customer service is right in time here.
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True, very true - but as daveswantek said, its somewhat surprising given the fact they are supposed to be Grade-A panels.
 
So what are the best calibration options for this monitor? On one hand I see that the NEC SpectraView package would be best since its designed specifically for the their monitors, but what reuse value does it have? Can it be used to calibrate non-NEC monitors as well? Then there is LaCie Blue Eyes with its nifty reporting function and I assume the software is more universal but how well does it work with the NEC?
 
pawstar said:
So what are the best calibration options for this monitor? On one hand I see that the NEC SpectraView package would be best since its designed specifically for the their monitors, but what reuse value does it have? Can it be used to calibrate non-NEC monitors as well? Then there is LaCie Blue Eyes with its nifty reporting function and I assume the software is more universal but how well does it work with the NEC?
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The US Spectraview software will only calibrate NEC monitors. The European Spectraview software will calibrate any monitor.

Only Spectraview software will perform hardware calibration on NEC xx90 series monitors. Other calibration software will just adjust the graphics card LUT, the same as for non hardware calibration capable monitors.
 
After going through three LCD3090 monitors, I've decided not to try a fourth and wait for Rev 1. Hopefully, NEC/LG can resolve the back light bleeding issue that plagued all three monitors. It's very important for me since I occasionally work with black and white photography and thus require screen uniformity.
 
catchlizzy said:
After going through three LCD3090 monitors, I've decided not to try a fourth and wait for Rev 1. Hopefully, NEC/LG can resolve the back light bleeding issue that plagued all three monitors. It's very important for me since I occasionally work with black and white photography and thus require screen uniformity.
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Gah! So what are the chances of getting a unit without back light bleeding? Three consecutive units having the same problem does not sound right.

So how many people here actually got a "perfect panel" which didn't have any issues?
 
I received my new monitor today from NEC. Bad news is that it's pretty much the same. Certainly not as "stripy" looking as the first, but it just shouldn't be this way. I took a pic of a Ben-Q 24" (A-MVA panel) that I have, and it is perfectly uniform, with the exception of dark corners, which is to be expected. And even those are uniformly dark...

Anyone else with this monitor, please take a pic for me of a similar colored background and post it up. NEC claimed that this was a known issue, but I'm beginning to wonder if it's just the way it is.

And for the the poster above, bad news for you too - My new one still has a small amount of backlight bleed. I don't find it annoying and wouldn't return it for just that, but it's there...

BTW, the pinkish color you see in the the image isn't your imagination or a camera issue. It's there...Calibrating it seemed to help on the last one with that issue...

3090-1.jpg


3090-2.jpg
 
I think all the 30" IPS panels are like that. My 3007 had that going on before I got rid of it. I gave up on 30" panels.
 
Snowdog said:
I think all the 30" IPS panels are like that. My 3007 had that going on before I got rid of it. I gave up on 30" panels.
Click to expand...

It appears that you are correct - Here is the email I received from NEC:

I checked the production data and you received one of the best panels
screened from the manufacturer.

The panel manufacturer is aware of these issues, and we are
double-screening all of the panels we receive to pick only those with
the highest quality. However at this point I am not able to offer an
alternative.

If ColorComp is not able to improve the screen uniformity and you are
not satisfied with the display quality, we can offer you a refund. I
should point out that other manufacturers will have this issue, but
worse since they don't do the same level of screening that we do.

Please let me know what you decide to do and I apologize the inconvenience.



This is obviously an issue since there is a feature in the monitor for "uniformity" (which reallly doesn't do a whole lot, IMHO). I thought about getting a Samsung 305T as a replacement, since it isn't IPS, but the color management capabilities combined with the otherwise stunning looking picture are too much to pass up.

As I stated before, I would be interested in seeing pics from any other IPS panels (3007, 3008WFP, etc.) and also a 30" non-IPS just to compare out of curiousity.

In the mean time, I think I'm going to continue enjoying my nice 30 incher!
 
^^^ the samsung 305T is even cheaper now mwave is selling it for around $1200 ! wow.. and I thought my apple cinema 30" at $1700 was a good deal.. lol
 
n0xlf said:
I thought about getting a Samsung 305T as a replacement, since it isn't IPS, but the color management capabilities combined with the otherwise stunning looking picture are too much to pass up.
In the mean time, I think I'm going to continue enjoying my nice 30 incher!
Click to expand...

Eizo SX3031W ($3500, PVA): As well as an operating noise which overlay the noise of the fan and changed to an unpleasant, light whistle when the monitor switched off, the homogeneity was considerably poorer
Adding to this Samsung XL30 ($4200, PVA) color distribution problems - there is no 100% guarantee of uniformity niether from PVA nor from IPS.
 
Yeah, I find it disturbing that they are having so many problems with the 30" ips panels (directing that comment at panel manuf). It is reassuring that NEC is so honest about the whole issue and willing to go so far to make sure that their customers are satisfied.

Now, it would be great to see a pic of the XL30 problem juxtaposed against n0xlf's one - that would definately help in making a more informed purchase decision.
 
Is there any difference between the NEC MultiSync LCD3090WQXi-BK and the NEC SpectraView 30 other than the bundled colorometer & software? I was looking at the specs and they seem to be slightly better in favour of the spectraview, but I was under the impression that its just the bundled deal.
 
pawstar said:
Is there any difference between the NEC MultiSync LCD3090WQXi-BK and the NEC SpectraView 30 other than the bundled colorometer & software? I was looking at the specs and they seem to be slightly better in favour of the spectraview, but I was under the impression that its just the bundled deal.
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Could you point out what seems to be better?
It should be just the bundled deal. Surprising if not.
A-TW H-IPS is mentioned for the first time (in the preface, not in specs - a link from XL30 thread). It's too early to interpret this. We'll see what will follow.
 
albovin said:
Could you point out what seems to be better?
It should be just the bundled deal. Surprising if not.
A-TW H-IPS is mentioned for the first time (in the preface, not in specs - a link from XL30 thread). It's too early to interpret this. We'll see what will follow.
Click to expand...

I got the info probably from the same thread you are taking about - the link to a German data sheet - don't understand what it says but not hard to know what spec is what :cool:

Yes, its (unofficially) H-IPS vs A-TW H-IPS but what struck my attention was this: previously, I've seen the NEC 3090WQXi quoted to have 97.8 % Adobe RGB while the SpectraView 3090 is listed to have 106.6% Adobe RGB (so what gives, better backlight or typo?)
 
Panels on the LCD3090WQUXi and European "SpectraView 30" are the same.

The spec is 106.6% "size" vs Adobe RGB, and 97.5% "coverage" vs Adobe RGB (when measured in CIE xy).

Or if you prefer the fairer comparison of using u'v' colorspace, the spec is 119.2% "size" vs Adobe RGB, and 99.3% "coverage" vs Adobe RGB.
 
That striping issue is simply unacceptable. My 2 yr old 3007wfp looks better than that. I;ve been waiting for a great 30" replacement to come along but it seems I shall have to continue to wait. It appears even the high priced Samsung XL30 has it's share of issues. I really expected better by now. :rolleyes:
 
visualguy said:
There are two other things that bother me with the LCD3090WQXi. One is that the brightness adjustment range of the backlight is very limited. It can be reduced only down to around 240cd/m2 which is extremely bright. To reduce the brightness further, the LCD panel itself is used to reduce the amount of light that it lets through, but the backlight is kept at a very high level. This is bad for many reasons. One is that it reduces the contrast ratio (the black level remains constant as you reduce the brightness in this case) and it makes any backlight bleeding issues much worse. The other problem is the excessive power and heat, and the reduction in the life expectancy of the backlight.

The other thing that bothers me with the LCD3090WQXi is that I can't find any information about calibrating it to sRGB. It has a pre-calibrated sRGB mode, but it seems that this is fixed and cannot be adjusted or calibrated. SpectraView II can calibrate to an sRGB gamma curve, but I couldn't find a way to reduce the gamut from native to sRGB. Also, I haven't found any information about whether the self-calibration feature can help with sRGB calibration. I use my monitors mostly in sRGB mode, so this is important to me.

If anyone who owns the LCD3090WQXi has been able to figure out a way to calibrate it to an sRGB target (both gamut and gamma curve), please let me know how it is done.

By the way, I have the Samsung XL30 and I wrote multiple posts about it. It's a monitor with great potential, but it has some bugs, or at least the units in the first batch had some issues - I don't know if Samsung has fixed them since then.
Click to expand...

Your questions are covered in the NEC 3090WQXi review.

There are two other things that bother me with the LCD3090WQXi. One is that the brightness adjustment range of the backlight is very limited. It can be reduced only down to around 240cd/m2 which is extremely bright.
Click to expand...

No. Brightness can be reduced down to ~60cd/m2

To reduce the brightness further, the LCD panel itself is used to reduce the amount of light that it lets through... it reduces the contrast
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Yes. It reduces the contrast. This is NEC's engineers decision.
At ~130cd/m2 workable brighness the monitor has still very workable CR ~ 450:1 with perfect color reproduction.
At an "entertainment brightness" of 240cd/m2 when high CR is necessary - you get >800:1

it makes any backlight bleeding issues much worse
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No, it does not.

The other problem is the excessive power and heat
Click to expand...
There is no excessive power and heat problem with the NEC 3090WQXi

the reduction in the life expectancy of the backlight.
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When you and I go to cemetery it will be still bright.

This is bad for many reasons.
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This is why this monitor does not flicker. Many would prefer preserving their vision to extra 300 points of CR in some cases.

It has a pre-calibrated sRGB mode, but it seems that this is fixed and cannot be adjusted or calibrated.
Click to expand...
It is not supposed to be adjustable because it's sRGB mode.

SpectraView II can calibrate to an sRGB gamma curve, but I couldn't find a way to reduce the gamut from native to sRGB.
Click to expand...
There is no way to reduce gamut other than use of sRGB mode.
Calibration software does not do anything to color gamuts.

I haven't found any information about whether the self-calibration feature can help with sRGB calibration
Click to expand...
There are two ways.
1. The review contains a link to the monitor manual. Follow instructions for self-calibration, from on-screen menu choose sRGB, start calibration.
2. Set the monitor to sRGB mode. Perform regular software calibration using any good software.

sRGB mode is really useful on this monitor for everyday non-professional applications - internet surfing, entertainment and other - whenever you want to bypass wide gamut color issues.

For a serious work in standard gamut - only you can estimate how suitable sRGB mode is with or without calibration and use it OR use color-aware professional applications in all other modes.

Good luck!
 
albovin said:
Yes. It reduces the contrast. This is NEC's engineers decision.
At ~130cd/m2 workable brighness the monitor has still very workable CR ~ 450:1 with perfect color reproduction.
At an "entertainment brightness" of 240cd/m2 when high CR is necessary - you get >800:1
Click to expand...

All my monitors are calibrated to 100cd/m2, so the contrast ratio would be 333:1 on the NEC. I'm getting 666:1 on my Eizo.

There is no excessive power and heat problem with the NEC 3090WQXi
Click to expand...

Running the CCFLs bright enough to get 240cd/m2 on a 30" monitor takes a lot more power and heat than running them for 100cd/m2.

When you and I go to cemetery it will be still bright.
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I'm not so sure about that. The half-life of CCFL degrades rapidly the brighter you run it. This is why Eizo refuses to provide warranty on their monitors if you run them brighter than around 120cd/m2.

This is why this monitor does not flicker. Many would prefer preserving their vision to extra 300 points of CR in some cases.
Click to expand...

This doesn't make sense. There are many LCDs that don't flicker at brightness much lower than 240cd/m2. None of my monitors flicker at 100cd/m2. I don't understand why the NEC engineers chose this method of brightness control. The only explanation I can think of is that the CCFL they use doesn't behave well under 240cd/m2 because of flicker or because of degraded color, but then they should be using a different backlight rather than limiting the backlight brightness control to 240cd/m2 and above.

There is no way to reduce gamut other than use of sRGB mode.
Calibration software does not do anything to color gamuts.
Click to expand...

I don't understand why NEC doesn't support this. It is possible to limit the gamut using the LUT. This is a standard feature of the Eizo CG line. The LUT can be programmed for the sRGB color space, and full sRGB monitor hardware calibration is supported by the Eizo ColorNavigator software. Samsung supports hardware sRGB calibration as well on the XL30 using Natural Color Expert. In fact, they support setting the coordinates for the color space however you want to achieve the gamut you want. NEC doesn't provide this capability for some reason that's not clear to me.

There are two ways.
1. The review contains a link to the monitor manual. Follow instructions for self-calibration, from on-screen menu choose sRGB, start calibration.
2. Set the monitor to sRGB mode. Perform regular software calibration using any good software.
Click to expand...

I want monitor LUT calibration, not graphics card calibration. If the self-calibration can do hardware sRGB calibartion, then that's better than nothing, but it wasn't clear to me from the manual. I don't understand why SpectraView II doesn't support it.

Thanks for your comments.
 
albovin,

By the way, where in the self-calibration menu do you set sRGB calibration? Is it where it says "COLOR NATIVE"? Also, what do you do about the gamma? sRGB has a special gamma curve. Does the self-calibration support this? It doesn't look like it in the manual.
 
visualguy said:
albovin,

By the way, where in the self-calibration menu do you set sRGB calibration? Is it where it says "COLOR NATIVE"? Also, what do you do about the gamma? sRGB has a special gamma curve. Does the self-calibration support this? It doesn't look like it in the manual.
Click to expand...

When you connect i1 to the monitor a self-calibration (Standalone) window pops up. Video supplement to the review (very last part) gives an idea how it looks.
Play with options.
Choose Self (on top).
Than play with the second line - modes. Try one after another until SRGB appears.
Click Next...

sRGB has a special gamma curve. Does the self-calibration support this?
Click to expand...
There will be no reports of that from the monitor.
By default the process should be compliant with sRGB attributes.
Please let me know if you managed to start standalone calibration.
 
It's not hardware calibration, but maybe checkout response number (7.) in this thread at the Adobe Color Management Forum by Gernot Hoffmann.
He claims to have solved the problem of correctly displaying sRGB on an aRGB monitor :
Gernot Hoffmann at Adobe Color Management Forums said:
Now let's think
about the argument 'in a wide gamut color space
we have larger color distances between 1 bit
steps'.
Correct, but didn't we use (I'm still doing it)
8bpc images in the working space AdobeRGB(1998)
for many many years ? Very satisfying, therefore
it cannot be wrong to send these data directly
(or with very tiny changes) directly to such a
monitor.

The problem how to show raw sRGB data on an aRGB
monitor can be solved, for instance like this:

1) Adjust the monitor visually by monitor controls
very near to aRGB.
2) Calibrate and profile for aRGB, but don't use
for instance Eizo's ColorNavigator. Do it in
the traditional way, which results in modified
graphics card LUTs.
3) Calibrate and profile again for sRGB, without
changing the monitor controls .

Choose the respective profile by GMB Display Profile,
which defines the system monitor profile.
Load the respective profile by GMB Calibration Loader,
which affects the LUTs.
Check LUT contents by GMB Calibration Tester.
The aRGB mode should cause small deviations from
the straight lines, the sRGB mode larger.
The disadvantage is that one has to choose the mode
deliberately.
IMO a good argument for sticking to sRGB monitors ..
Click to expand...
Obviously I can not check, because I do not have a 3090.

EDIT: You can download the freeware Calibration tester from here LUT Tester - Utility SW

You probably already are aware of this, if you have a multi monitor setup, just run as many copies of the utility as you have monitors and drag one copy to each monitor. If all is well you will see different curves and values, and the monitor number should be different on each.

Robert
 
Robert,

Thanks, but it all hinges on step 3 ("Calibrate and profile again for sRGB"), but how would you do that? The software that I have: Eye-One Match 3 doesn't support sRGB calibration of the graphics card LUT so that an sRGB color space is displayed on a wide-gamut monitor. I don't know what software does that. Maybe ProfileMaker from x-rite?
 
You'll need some values from the sRGB specification :
w3.org - A Standard Default Color Space for the Internet - sRGB
Scroll down to "Part 2: Definition of the sRGB Color Space"
or
en.wikipedia.org - sRGB

It's years ago that I used Eye-One Match. I don't know the names exactly anymore.
You'll have to leave "Easy Mode" and go into "Advanced Mode".

If you are offered/able to choose a target profile named sRGB select that one.

Otherwise, if you are offered to enter CIE XYZ coordinates for Red, Green, Blue, and White Point, do so. When not, check if you can switch it on the preferences or settings of Eye-One Match.
Use the values from the sRGB gamut table.
You'll find the (exact same) table under "Colorimetric definitions and digital encodings" on the w3.org webpage, and under "The sRGB gamut" on the wikipedia.org webpage.
The values in the table are the coordinates of the RGB primaries (the 3 corners of the triangle gamut) and the white point approximately in the middle. (I'm sure you already know this. But just for completeness.)

Otherwise you'll have to enter these (maybe you can start off with a default sRGB template profile, handy for defaults) :
You'll find the correct values under "sRGB reference viewing environment" on the w3.org webpage, and under "Viewing environment" on the wikipedia.org webpage.

White point :
choose "Native white point" (on LCD3090WQXi already = D65 = 6500), or choose "Medium white (6500)"
"Gamma" : choose 2.2
"Luminance" : choose 80-120 cd/m2
There might be more. Black luminance, White luminance, etc. Leave at their defauIts or set to your preferences can't remember.

Remember, do not change anything on the monitor after step 2. Even if EyeOne Match tells you so. (It's also quicker.:p)

Robert
 
Robert,

I'll check again, but I don't believe that Eye-One Match 3 lets you enter color space coordinates. Also, it doesn't provide an sRGB calibration target, unfortunately.
 
visualguy said:
Robert,

I'll check again, but I don't believe that Eye-One Match 3 lets you enter color space coordinates. Also, it doesn't provide an sRGB calibration target, unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Like I said. You have to leave Easy mode. (On the screen where you select which device to profile.) Then you will be able to make custom settings at the step "Choose Calibration Settings".
Maybe not CIE XYZ coordinates like you say, but definitely Gamma, White Point and Luminance.
sRGB is designed to match the gamut (color space) of a typical CRT monitor with gamma of 2.2 and white point set to 6500K (aka D65).

It will be similar to the third option to calibrate to sRGB, that I already described above :
White point :
choose "Native white point" (on LCD3090WQXi already = D65 = 6500), or choose "Medium white (6500)"
"Gamma" : choose 2.2
"Luminance" : choose 80-120 cd/m2
There might be more. Black luminance, White luminance, etc. Leave at their defauIts or set to your preferences can't remember.

Remember, do not change anything on the monitor after step 2. Even if EyeOne Match tells you so. (It's also quicker.)
Click to expand...
 
InToGraphics said:
Like I said. You have to leave Easy mode. (On the screen where you select which device to profile.) Then you will be able to make custom settings at the step "Choose Calibration Settings".
Maybe not CIE XYZ coordinates like you say, but definitely Gamma, White Point and Luminance.
sRGB is designed to match the gamut (color space) of a typical CRT monitor with gamma of 2.2 and white point set to 6500K (aka D65).

It will be similar to the third option to calibrate to sRGB, that I already described above :
Click to expand...

Sorry, but I'm afraid I have to disagree with you. What you describe is not sRGB. The color coordinates must be specified in order to display the sRGB color space on a wide gamut monitor, otherwise you just get the wide gamut. Also, sRGB has its own gamma curve, it's not a fixed 2.2. Basically, you need calibration software which offers an sRGB target or the ability to set the color space coordinates and an sRGB gamma curve. I don't know of any software which lets you do this using the graphics card LUT. Eye-One Match 3 certainly doesn't let you do this.

I know of only 3 examples where you can calibrate sRGB on a wide gamut 30" monitor:

1) Natural Color Expert on Samsung XL30.
2) ColorNavigator on Eizo CG301W.
3) Maybe self-calibration on NEC LCD3090WQXi, but not SpectraView II.

All of these use monitor hardware LUT.
 
albovin said:
When you connect i1 to the monitor a self-calibration (Standalone) window pops up. Video supplement to the review (very last part) gives an idea how it looks.
Play with options.
Choose Self (on top).
Than play with the second line - modes. Try one after another until SRGB appears.
Click Next...


There will be no reports of that from the monitor.
By default the process should be compliant with sRGB attributes.
Please let me know if you managed to start standalone calibration.
Click to expand...

Albovin,

I don't own the LCD3090WQXi yet. I've been thinking about getting one, but I'm concerned about a number of issues such as reports of bad uniformity, and also the fact that the SpectraView II software doesn't support sRGB calibration. Maybe the sRGB self-calibration is good enough, but I'm not sure.

My biggest concern with the LCD3090WQXi is the brightness control. If I run the monitor at a brightness level of 100cd/m2, most of the brightness reduction on the LCD3090WQXi is provided by the LCD, not the backlight. The backlight still runs at 240cd/m2, and the LCD is used to reduce the brightness to 100cd/m2.

My fear is that this reduces the image quality. I don't understand how this method can work without reducing the ability to display shades of color.

For example, how well does the LCD3090WQXi do on the following when running at 100cd/m2:

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/contrast.php
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php
 
visualguy,

May I ask happened to your XL30 monitor? Planning to replace it with the NEC or is this for a different application?

Cheers!
 
visualguy said:
Sorry, but I'm afraid I have to disagree with you. What you describe is not sRGB. The color coordinates must be specified in order to display the sRGB color space on a wide gamut monitor, otherwise you just get the wide gamut. Also, sRGB has its own gamma curve, it's not a fixed 2.2. Basically, you need calibration software which offers an sRGB target or the ability to set the color space coordinates and an sRGB gamma curve. I don't know of any software which lets you do this using the graphics card LUT. Eye-One Match 3 certainly doesn't let you do this.

I know of only 3 examples where you can calibrate sRGB on a wide gamut 30" monitor:

1) Natural Color Expert on Samsung XL30.
2) ColorNavigator on Eizo CG301W.
3) Maybe self-calibration on NEC LCD3090WQXi, but not SpectraView II.

All of these use monitor hardware LUT.
Click to expand...
You don't have to say that you are sorry. It sure sounds like you got yourself a huge problem there. Good luck with it, and take care.



 
InToGraphics,

Care to elaborate on these screenshots? What software are we looking at, and what does it do?
 
visualguy said:
Albovin,

I don't own the LCD3090WQXi yet. I've been thinking about getting one, but I'm concerned about a number of issues such as reports of bad uniformity, and also the fact that the SpectraView II software doesn't support sRGB calibration. Maybe the sRGB self-calibration is good enough, but I'm not sure.

My biggest concern with the LCD3090WQXi is the brightness control. If I run the monitor at a brightness level of 100cd/m2, most of the brightness reduction on the LCD3090WQXi is provided by the LCD, not the backlight. The backlight still runs at 240cd/m2, and the LCD is used to reduce the brightness to 100cd/m2.

My fear is that this reduces the image quality. I don't understand how this method can work without reducing the ability to display shades of color.

For example, how well does the LCD3090WQXi do on the following when running at 100cd/m2:

http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/contrast.php
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php
Click to expand...

Maybe the sRGB self-calibration is good enough, but I'm not sure.
Click to expand...
Self-calibration is less accurate than proper hardware of software calibration as can be seen from the review.
sRGB is not an exception.
I am very skeptical about the ability of any of so-called "emulated" sRGB modes of wide gamut monitors to compete with regular gamut monitors in the field of color accuracy.
1. If you need sRGB mode just to prevent oversaturation for everyday use - it's OK - for that purpose - sRGB mode is truthful enough on this monitor.
2. If you target sRGB for serious purposes, you'll have to use a properly SV-II calibrated monitor and utilize your skills in appropriate photo-editing applications.
3. Nobody can prevent you from further experimenting with sRGB mode various calibrations and getting success in that way.

My biggest concern with the LCD3090WQXi is the brightness control. My fear is that this reduces the image quality.
Click to expand...
At 140 cd/m2 the image quality is still better than on any other monitor except 2490/2690. The diagrams are provided in the review.
I have not checked 100 cd/m2 though. The monitor is already taken by the owner.

reports of bad uniformity
Click to expand...
Yes, we have to pay attention to that.

For example, how well does the LCD3090WQXi do on the following
Click to expand...
At 140 cd/m2 it's perfect - depends on calibration.

I know of only 3 examples where you can calibrate sRGB on a wide gamut 30" monitor:

1) Natural Color Expert on Samsung XL30.
2) ColorNavigator on Eizo CG301W.
3) Maybe self-calibration on NEC LCD3090WQXi, but not SpectraView II.

All of these use monitor hardware LUT.
Click to expand...

As far as I know from latest reviews, XL30 calibration package has limited ability.
It's limited to color gamut assessment and color temperature settings.
There is no gamma curve correction even for a wide gamut mode.
Therefore we cannot talk about hardware calibration of XL30.
The only possible proper calibration for XL30 - is a regular software calibration using a third party software.

About Eizo. I don't think it can have limitations of XL30, but again, I am very skeptical about any serious quality related to any gamut "emulation".

Visualguy, forgive my curiosity. You are collecting most expensive monitors. What is it for?

Instead of getting so much trouble squeezing sRGB from wide gamut monitors try the NEC 2490.
It's a standart gamut Alladin lamp. Just rub it with SpectraViewII and get what you want. If not satisfied - return it.
 
albovin said:
At 140 cd/m2 the image quality is still better than on any other monitor except 2490/2690. The diagrams are provided in the review.
I have not checked 100 cd/m2 though. The monitor is already taken by the owner.
Click to expand...

Too bad - 100cd/m2 is the most important for me, but it's encouraging to hear that it's still perfect at 140cd/m2. I still don't understand how they're able to reduce the LCD brightness without reducing the image quality.

As far as I know from latest reviews, XL30 calibration package has limited ability.
It's limited to color gamut assessment and color temperature settings.
There is no gamma curve correction even for a wide gamut mode.
Therefore we cannot talk about hardware calibration of XL30.
The only possible proper calibration for XL30 - is a regular software calibration using a third party software.
Click to expand...

Samsung's Natural Color Expert (NCE) is not great, and certainly not as good as Eizo's ColorNavigator, but it is possible to calibrate sRGB with NCE. I've done it without a problem on my XL30. It's possible to calibrate to an sRGB target and save it to the monitor sRGB preset mode, and it's also possible to calibrate sRGB and save it to the emulation mode of the monitor. It works very well.

About Eizo. I don't think it can have limitations of XL30, but again, I am very skeptical about any serious quality related to any gamut "emulation".
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I've been satisfied with the results I got on both the Eizo CG301W and the Samsung XL30.

Visualguy, forgive my curiosity. You are collecting most expensive monitors. What is it for?
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I use them for work. I spend a lot of time in front of monitors every day, so I might as well enjoy it. Also, collecting monitors is a hobby of mine...

Instead of getting so much trouble squeezing sRGB from wide gamut monitors try the NEC 2490.
It's a standart gamut Alladin lamp. Just rub it with SpectraViewII and get what you want. If not satisfied - return it.
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The problem is that it's not 30". I can't go back to using a 24" (too spoiled now).
 
visualguy said:
Too bad - 100cd/m2 is the most important for me, but it's encouraging to hear that it's still perfect at 140cd/m2. I still don't understand how they're able to reduce the LCD brightness without reducing the image quality.



Samsung's Natural Color Expert (NCE) is not great, and certainly not as good as Eizo's ColorNavigator, but it is possible to calibrate sRGB with NCE. I've done it without a problem on my XL30. It's possible to calibrate to an sRGB target and save it to the monitor sRGB preset mode, and it's also possible to calibrate sRGB and save it to the emulation mode of the monitor. It works very well.



I've been satisfied with the results I got on both the Eizo CG301W and the Samsung XL30.



I use them for work. I spend a lot of time in front of monitors every day, so I might as well enjoy it. Also, collecting monitors is a hobby of mine...



The problem is that it's not 30". I can't go back to using a 24" (too spoiled now).
Click to expand...

on my XL30. It's possible to calibrate to an sRGB target and save it to the monitor sRGB preset mode, and it's also possible to calibrate sRGB and save it to the emulation mode of the monitor.
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They have made it look like this.
But as I have just read about XL30, XL24 - the main part is missing - no gamma correction.

I've been satisfied with the results I got on both
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"Being satisfied" is uncertain. You need to use a software with "measure and report" function to see what you get after sRGB calibration - what dE94.

The problem is that it's not 30". I can't go back to using a 24" (too spoiled now)
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:) I was planning to spoil myself with 30" NEC. Bad luck.
2490 is better. Smaller but better. With your sesitivity, you would also tell the difference in AG coating effect - in favour of 2490.

I am serious. For such a big collector - one monitor more or one less...
And the price! Compared with XL30, the NEC 2490WUXi is free.
Order accessories (SV II and the hood), put 2490 between two 30", calibrate to L*. Not at once - day by day - see your photos, see people, faces, see details, mid-tones. Take your time.
I am not sure what will be the first (XL or Eizo) you decide to get rid of...:)
Good luck anyway.:)
 
visualguy said:
Albovin,

Going back to 24" will be tough... At that size, what do you think of the HP DreamColor LP2480zx?

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF06a/382087-382087-64283-72270-444767-3648397.html

It seems like it might be better than the NEC...
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IPS with LED is a good start.
From consumers' point of view - may be better in black level. No info about what kind of IPS it is.
Flexibility in gamuts?
Nothing tested yet, only promised. Too early.
Lacks some features of 2490.
 
Albovin I'm in the market for a 30"
Do you recommend a 3008 WFP a02 or an NEC?
Or maybe the dreamcolour?
 
@visualguy:
Look I didn't want to spend anymore time on this because it's too easy to find out yourself.

Look in this folder in any Windows XP : c:\windows\system32\spool\drivers\color\
There should be a file in it, called : "sRGB Color Space Profile.icm" (Size : 4KB on disk, 3.07KB real).
It's a bog standard version 2 sRGB IEC61966-2.1 ICM/ICC file. And, it contains the coordinates you want/need.
According to the Microsoft website it "May be used for any device that supports Image Color Management 2.0".
There are 3 things you can do, if you don't believe me again :
  • open the ICM/ICC file with notepad and look for yourself.
  • find yourself an offline ICM/ICC viewer.
  • or go here for an online viewer : http://www.iccview.de/index.php?lang=en and click the link "Start >> Profile comparison" at mid page, or "3D comparison" in the side bar on the right.
    (You will most likely be prompted to install the Cortona VRML Client ActiveX control. You need to install it to view the plotted graph.)
    Set "ICC-Profile 1" to "AdobeRGB1998" then click the "Profile Upload button", browse to the folder mentioned above and upload the "sRGB Color Space Profile.icm" file. When the upload has finished, make sure you also select the just uploaded profile. Then select the type of view to represent each color space. (Color or wireframe.)
    Click the "Compare profiles" button.
I don't know if you're on Windows XP or not. When not, download the sRGB ICM file from the net or even better ask around.
If needed, you can also download the Adobe RGB (1998) ICC colour profile (amongst others) from here : http://www.adobe.com/digitalimag/adobergb.html (link at the very bottom of the page.)
I also assume that you know that the ICM and ICC formats are interchangeable.
If not, the internal format is exactly the same. So if your calibration/profiling software only looks for *.ICC files, just rename the *.ICM files to *.ICC, or vice versa.
You should be able to load the "sRGB Color Space Profile.icm" file as a target in i1 Match at the step "Choose Calibration Settings" (with the "Load ICC profile"-button ?).

Robert

P.S. My graphics card is dead. I'll probably won't show up again for a couple of days. I changed PC, an old one with an GF FX 5200, and I am still shopping for a new one now (in the middle of the night) while I'm waiting for a sensible reply from XFX Support. Yes guys and gals, they told me to reset the BIOS and uninstall all drivers in safe mode. AFTER I explained in the support ticket, that both monitors stay pitch black and display the message "No signal. Going to sleep." (Even after unplugging the PSU cables from the motherboard and graphics card, and also that I even tried the card in another PC with the same result.):rolleyes:
Meanwhile I cannot finish my work because the the files are on that box.
I better buy 2 exact the same graphics cards. One as a backup.:D
 
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