ATI Removes NDA on Performance Previews for 4850 (#'s Inside)

POPEGOLD said:
u have been on [H] for 52 days... you havent eaten enought catheads to dictate how i post
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Oh i've been around much longer than that ;)

I've been on the [H] forums on and off for the last 6 odd years.

I'm not trying to dicatate how you post, im asking people to back up what they claim, if you're interested in the slightest that people take you seriously you're going to have to start meeting a few standards.
 
I fail to see why some people do not think this is a great release. A great bang for the buck card which creates pressure for Nvidia to drop prices. Customer wins!

edit:

Earlier I thought jumping from 3870 > 4850 was not worth while, but after seeing Tech powerups early benchies Iam getting second thoughts. This seems like an excelent performer for the price, lets see how it does in [H] benches.
 
Frostex said:
Oh i've been around much longer than that ;)

I've been on the [H] forums on and off for the last 6 odd years.

I'm not trying to dicatate how you post, im asking people to back up what they claim, if you're interested in the slightest that people take you seriously you're going to have to start meeting a few standards.
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I reject your deposit.
 
POPEGOLD said:
are u an Nvidiot.?... if so then i can understand your 4800 terror

you have been POO POO ing the 4800 line since day 1
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:rolleyes:

I could care less if ATI or Nvidia comes out with the better solution.

I absolutely hate it when people cherry pick results, extrapolate, and then exaggerate them.

Talking about a card that hasn't been released yet (4870x2) , is still under NDA, and won't be released for months and claiming it is going to not only beat something on preformance, but also going to "destroy" something on price/preformance fits the above bill.

Saying that the 4850 is destroying the 8800 GT or the 9800 GTX is a lie. Go read the reviews. They are around the same level of preformance. You can cherry pick results to show either card is at least 25% better than the other one.

crysis-1920h-bar.jpg


cod4-2560.jpg

cod4-2560-bar.jpg


Cherry picking results, just like simply looking at "average" frame rates, NEVER tells the whole story. CoD4 would be VERY playable on the GTS or the GTX, but not playable on the 4850 eventhough it shows a higher average fps on the GTS.
 
sam0t said:
I fail to see why some people do not think this is a great release. A great bang for the buck card which creates pressure for Nvidia to drop prices. Customer wins!

edit:

Earlier I thought jumping from 3870 > 4850 was not worth while, but after seeing Tech powerups early benchies Iam getting second thoughts. This seems like an excelent performer for the price, lets see how it does in [H] benches.
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It has created pressure for Nvidia to lower it's prices. Although in reality they didn't lower them much. 2 days ago there was a post for a GTX for 225 after rebate. Now they've dropped it to 200$. Ok, well that's 10% which is nice, but it's not ground breaking. The GT has been around 150$ for a while is still probably a better price/preformance than a GTX at 200.

It's nice to see new cards, but this just isn't "market changing".
 
vengence said:
:rolleyes:

I could care less if ATI or Nvidia comes out with the better solution.

I absolutely hate it when people cherry pick results, extrapolate, and then exaggerate them.

Talking about a card that hasn't been released yet (4870x2) , is still under NDA, and won't be released for months and claiming it is going to not only beat something on preformance, but also going to "destroy" something on price/preformance fits the above bill.

Saying that the 4850 is destroying the 8800 GT or the 9800 GTX is a lie. Go read the reviews. They are around the same level of preformance. You can cherry pick results to show either card is at least 25% better than the other one.

.
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so you truly think NVIDIA wanted to lower the price of its 9800GTX to 199.00 to face a 4850.... ATI can easily drop the 4850 to 149.99 if they want

then what.
 
POPEGOLD said:
so you truly think NVIDIA wanted to lower the price of its 9800GTX to 199.00 to face a 4850.... ATI can easily drop the 4850 to 149.99 if they want

then what.
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Then they might have a card that is priced the same as it's direct competition. Come on dude get off your high horse and watch this thing play out, quit trolling. Also, ATI can't drop the price too much, they're too close to insolvency as it is. :eek::p
 
vengence said:
:rolleyes:

I could care less if ATI or Nvidia comes out with the better solution.

I absolutely hate it when people cherry pick results, extrapolate, and then exaggerate them.

Talking about a card that hasn't been released yet (4870x2) , is still under NDA, and won't be released for months and claiming it is going to not only beat something on preformance, but also going to "destroy" something on price/preformance fits the above bill.

Saying that the 4850 is destroying the 8800 GT or the 9800 GTX is a lie. Go read the reviews. They are around the same level of preformance. You can cherry pick results to show either card is at least 25% better than the other one.

crysis-1920h-bar.jpg


cod4-2560.jpg

cod4-2560-bar.jpg


Cherry picking results, just like simply looking at "average" frame rates, NEVER tells the whole story. CoD4 would be VERY playable on the GTS or the GTX, but not playable on the 4850 eventhough it shows a higher average fps on the GTS.
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Ironic you cherry-picked a review that has historically always put ATI behind a worse light than what the review mob sees. Have an issue with that?
 
Not to mention the 8800GT in that review is heavily overclocked.
 
i want ATI to kick ass so Nvidia releases a cheaper alternative. Then ATI will price drop and Nvidia will follow....like the 8800GT vs the 3870.

THEN ill see what to buy ;)
 
ill see hot good the 4850 and 4870 are when i see the [H] review. F*CK those "Previews" that are using beta drivers and are using game and/or configs that make ATI look like shit, OR make Nvidia look like shit and ATI awesome.
 
Being able to take advantage of the stability of Intel based chipsets does give a bit of an advantage to the new ATI offerings in xfire mode.
 
Lost! said:
Ironic you cherry-picked a review that has historically always put ATI behind a worse light than what the review mob sees. Have an issue with that?
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That was the point. You can cherry pick reviews to say anything you want.
 
vengence said:
:rolleyes:

I could care less if ATI or Nvidia comes out with the better solution.

I absolutely hate it when people cherry pick results, extrapolate, and then exaggerate them.

Talking about a card that hasn't been released yet (4870x2) , is still under NDA, and won't be released for months and claiming it is going to not only beat something on preformance, but also going to "destroy" something on price/preformance fits the above bill.

Saying that the 4850 is destroying the 8800 GT or the 9800 GTX is a lie. Go read the reviews. They are around the same level of preformance. You can cherry pick results to show either card is at least 25% better than the other one.

Cherry picking results, just like simply looking at "average" frame rates, NEVER tells the whole story. CoD4 would be VERY playable on the GTS or the GTX, but not playable on the 4850 eventhough it shows a higher average fps on the GTS.
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voted for post of the week.
 
SystematicDestroyer said:
I'm still no big fan of SLIing/XFiring 4 cards. 4 cards is just too many freaking cards to fit into a case/cool/power/etc. Hence, the mid-upper range of 2x GTX260s is looking like it'll be pretty sweet. Majorly badass performance while dropping like 60W of power draw VS 2x GTX280 (30W per card) and saving $500+ over 2x GTX280s.
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Putting 4 cards in SLI/XF is really putting two dual core cards in SLI/XF. So its still just two cards.. with more heat output and power usage.

 
POPEGOLD said:
so you truly think NVIDIA wanted to lower the price of its 9800GTX to 199.00 to face a 4850....
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They would like to sell the 9800 GTX at 10,000$. ATI would like to sell their cards at 10,000$. Except no one would buy them.
ATI priced thier cards at 200$ because otherwise everyone would have just bought a 8800GT or a 9600GT. Do you think ATI is happy that Nvidia lowered it's price point to 200$? Probably not. Although last week you could buy a 9800 GTX for 225 AR, so it's not like they suddenly lowered it by 1/2 or something.


POPEGOLD said:
ATI can easily drop the 4850 to 149.99 if they want then what.
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Umm, ok I'll say something to that when it happens. It doesn't matter what they could do, it matters what they do. ATI has released the price point at 200$. Until they actually drop it, AND Nvidia doesn't match it, nothing has changed.

Nvidia has zero debt right now, you really think a price war with AMD is going to suddenly cause them to die?
 
POPEGOLD said:
u have been on [H] for 52 days... you havent eaten enought catheads to dictate how i post
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*Chuckle*... Well, POPEGOLD is obviously just extrapolating a projected performance curve for the 4870 and 4870X2 cards, and how dense is someone to need that explained overtly? The guy gives someone credit for having two brain cells to rub together, then that someone turns around and criticizes POPEs for it. Geesh, fellers! Anyway, if the 4870(x2) cards are anything like what the 4850 in Crossfire is showing, they will be well worth it. Tweaktown has 4850 Crossfired matching and besting the newly released 280. It's hard to avoid speculating on the 4870's performance with results like that.

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/1470/1/page_1_introduction/index.html
 
vengence said:
:rolleyes:

I could care less if ATI or Nvidia comes out with the better solution.

I absolutely hate it when people cherry pick results, extrapolate, and then exaggerate them.

Talking about a card that hasn't been released yet (4870x2) , is still under NDA, and won't be released for months and claiming it is going to not only beat something on preformance, but also going to "destroy" something on price/preformance fits the above bill.

Saying that the 4850 is destroying the 8800 GT or the 9800 GTX is a lie. Go read the reviews. They are around the same level of preformance. You can cherry pick results to show either card is at least 25% better than the other one.

crysis-1920h-bar.jpg


cod4-2560.jpg

cod4-2560-bar.jpg


Cherry picking results, just like simply looking at "average" frame rates, NEVER tells the whole story. CoD4 would be VERY playable on the GTS or the GTX, but not playable on the 4850 eventhough it shows a higher average fps on the GTS.
Click to expand...
Ah yes, PC Perspective, a trusted review site.
HA.
Their methods for testing a very flawed. Using an Overclocked BFG 8800GT Card to show that the 4850 is slow. What if we were to overclock the 4850 the same? Oh oh, someone is trying to pull the wool over my eyes. Bunch of Nvidia fanyboys over there.
They probably have a hotline to Nvidia.

<Nvidia>: Do not let them see the truth, only obscure the truth so that your reader base will choose only Nvidia cards.
<PC Perspective>: Yes my master
 
Tweaktown has ATI 4850 in X-fire and its close to 9800 GX2 performance while 4850 comes close to 9800 GTX OC. However, power consumption by 4850 wins the day by a mile.
 
Noetic said:
Being able to take advantage of the stability of Intel based chipsets does give a bit of an advantage to the new ATI offerings in xfire mode.
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qft
That's the main reason I'm very interested in the 4800s. I don't want to screw with an nvidia chipset.
 
Lost! said:
Ironic you cherry-picked a review that has historically always put ATI behind a worse light than what the review mob sees. Have an issue with that?
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PCPER, does real world testing, no timedemos. Its not thier fault ATI doesnt shine in the the real world. Andtech or toms is probably more your speed with thier flybys and cutscene's. Hard, PCPer, Bit-tech, Driverheaven all do realworld testing and they show how ATI and Nvidia really play in game.
 
Looks like ATI hasn't addressed the fan issues?
What's with the 14% fanspeed at idle (76C temp)? Just have to go into RivaTuner and force a faster fanspeed, but idiots always go around complaining about bad temperatures because they're not smart enough to check the fan speeds. Bad press for ATi I guess.
 
purgatory said:
PCPER, does real world testing, no timedemos. Its not thier fault ATI doesnt shine in the the real world. Andtech or toms is probably more your speed with thier flybys and cutscene's. Hard, PCPer, Bit-tech, Driverheaven all do realworld testing and they show how ATI and Nvidia really play in game.
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Hardly, a lot of their tests are skewed towards Nvidia. And their site just plain sucks for loading time. I don't this much of a problem with HardOCP or other sites. PCPer sucks balls on.
 
jebo_4jc said:
qft
That's the main reason I'm very interested in the 4800s. I don't want to screw with an nvidia chipset.
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That's a point that I think is being overlooked.Give me an Intel chipset board any day.If the 4800's prove to be competitive,you're getting a good card at lower prices,plus you can have a multi-card setup on a stable,reliable board.
 
Editing first page w more links, keep em coming in guys.

AND FYI on the PCPER link: the 4850 is against the BFG 8800GT OCX which has its core at 700Mhz and Shader at 1728MHz so a nearly 20% overclock. The BFG 9800GTX comes standard overclocked at 700MHZ core as well.

So the 4850 is matching if not beating the OC'd 8800GT and 9800GTX both with and without AA on. If that doesn't put it back in perspective, I don't know what will.
 
michael.pa2 said:
That's a point that I think is being overlooked.Give me an Intel chipset board any day.If the 4800's prove to be competitive,you're getting a good card at lower prices,plus you can have a multi-card setup on a stable,reliable board.
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I agree, this is what is going to make this generation of video cards interesting.
Nvidia knows that it lost a lot of consumer confidence over the 680i motherboards failing and eating RAM. And it's going to be a long time before that fiasco is forgotten.
 
ZerazaX said:
Editing first page w more links, keep em coming in guys.

AND FYI on the PCPER link: the 4850 is against the BFG 8800GT OCX which has its core at 700Mhz and Shader at 1728MHz so a nearly 20% overclock. The BFG 9800GTX comes standard overclocked at 700MHZ core as well.

So the 4850 is matching if not beating the OC'd 8800GT and 9800GTX both with and without AA on. If that doesn't put it back in perspective, I don't know what will.
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Fucking, thank you.

I'm not congratulating ATI for playing catch-up.


I'm glad they have caught up and am congratulating them for (slightly) nullifing the last two generation of cards with one release and having the current gen in their crosshairs.
 
Right, i'm just glad they finally got their architecture rolling and that their lowest level card matches or exceeds the previous generations high end (though the 9800GTX was a farce for a high end). Since it seems to suffer less from AA and AF than the 9800GTX, maybe comparing it to the 8800Ultra is a better one and it seems to do fine.
 
Even the 700 series boards are having problems,so Nvidia still hasn't learned.All they care about is how many of their vid cards they can cram onto them.
 
michael.pa2 said:
That's a point that I think is being overlooked.Give me an Intel chipset board any day.If the 4800's prove to be competitive,you're getting a good card at lower prices,plus you can have a multi-card setup on a stable,reliable board.
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COSIGN +1 Intel chipsets and ATi X-fire 4800's is looking real sexy to me
 
Looks like 800 SP's + 956 million transistors (wow) is confirmed by those reviews...
 
Neither ATi or Nvidia have produced a card that dramatically increases my gaming experience yet. Maybe the 4870 will surprise, but I am somewhat underwhelmed so far.
 
This is really strange. Quote from Legion Hardware's review:

Interestingly, one of ATI’s partners did tell us that they were disappointed with the performance of the RV770 (HD 4850), which is surprising given what we have seen. Again, should these cards come in at $200 US, we feel there is absolutely nothing to be disappointed about. For now it looks like the Radeon HD 4850 has what it takes to combat the GeForce 9800 GTX, though we are keen to check this new graphics card out in much more detail very soon...
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Which pretty much reflects the current state of 'previews', some show it's barely faster than an 8800GT, while others show a commanding lead over the 9800GTX. Might be different drivers... in any case, we'll have to wait it out until the 25th.
 
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