Apology to calling the Comcast bandwidth violators, pirates

4saken

4saken

[H]F Junkie
Joined
Sep 14, 2004
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So...after posting in virtually every thread claiming to be a non pirating comcast user and getting the 400gb+ bandwidth notices from Comcast, and calling them pirates, i get my first warning for doing over 500gb of traffic last month.

I had been reinstalling steam and every game ive purchased through it on 3 different computers, and re-downloading entire PS3 store library, and more, during my restructuring of my entertainment, computer, gaming room, apparently it was too much for Comcast. I am still in disbelief that i could have done 500gb, but after doing the math i can account for maybe 250+gb, which does put me close. So yeah, I apologize for calling anyone else who legitimately does internet traffic and gets this warnings a pirate.

I now know how it feels to get this warning when you have only been doing legit downloading.
Now i feel like i have to watch my back.:(
 
i got one, i just called and told them to STFU i paid for service and i intend to use it, when i signed it there was nothing about limits so leave me the fwock alone or i will report you to the BBB and let them work it out. unless of course you want to be sued for breach of contract? hmm maybe? she said thankyou and she will fix the problem. LMFAO
 
utshost said:
i got one, i just called and told them to STFU i paid for service and i intend to use it, when i signed it there was nothing about limits so leave me the fwock alone or i will report you to the BBB and let them work it out. unless of course you want to be sued for breach of contract? hmm maybe? she said thankyou and she will fix the problem. LMFAO
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Nice. Out of all the downloading I've done, Time Warner has never contacted me or cut me off.
 
my cable just switched to comcast a couple months ago. my speed went from a stellar 12mb download to 9 at best. and my fees went up $5 a month. If they send me a little letter sayin i use the internet too much- BAM IM DONE and i will let them know they will NEVER get another dime from me. "NO, TOO BAD- you should have NEVER sent me an 'overlimit' letter to begin with. YOU CAN CANCEL MY ACCOUNT NOW, and ill take my $99 a month elsewhere". god i hate these guys already....
 
utshost said:
i got one, i just called and told them to STFU i paid for service and i intend to use it, when i signed it there was nothing about limits so leave me the fwock alone or i will report you to the BBB and let them work it out. unless of course you want to be sued for breach of contract? hmm maybe? she said thankyou and she will fix the problem. LMFAO
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please tell me you're a troll.
 
pirates? if you pay a monthly price to your ISP then you pay for EVERYTHING you download it's like an all you can eat buffet you can argue about it all you want but it is the future and cannot be stopped , and that is also far from the issue here, the problem here is that the ISP's need to update there systems to meet the increasing demand for bandwidth.
 
AMD_Gamer said:
and that is also far from the issue here, the problem here is that the ISP's need to update there systems to meet the increasing demand for bandwidth.
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Then we all get monthly service rate increases...to satisfy the wants/overuse of a very small percentage of users.

P2P traffic amounts to over 50% of internet bandwidth being consumed..and is on the rise.
Percentage of ISP customers that are P2P users...very small.

So very small percentage of users...consume a greater portion of the bandwidth..but all us other users gotta pony up the cash for these kids? Eh eh...not me.

It's not so much the bandwidth itself..is the routers along the nodes of cable ISPs that get hit the hardest. Think about common P2P complaints with home grade routers you see in the forums...now apply that on a grand scale....on an ISP scale..think of what a few hundred P2P users can do to ISP routers.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
Then we all get monthly service rate increases...to satisfy the wants/overuse of a very small percentage of users.

P2P traffic amounts to over 50% of internet bandwidth being consumed..and is on the rise.
Percentage of ISP customers that are P2P users...very small.

So very small percentage of users...consume a greater portion of the bandwidth..but all us other users gotta pony up the cash for these kids? Eh eh...not me.

It's not so much the bandwidth itself..is the routers along the nodes of cable ISPs that get hit the hardest. Think about common P2P complaints with home grade routers you see in the forums...now apply that on a grand scale....on an ISP scale..think of what a few hundred P2P users can do to ISP routers.
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True, but digital content delivery is where games, apps, tv, and movies are headed. Many of them utilizing p2p types of delivery systems. Even the consoles use the internet now. If the infrastructure can't take it now, what will happen in 5 years as those services expand and people start using them? Whether or not, the infrastructure needs to be upgraded or not, is not even really a question.
It does.

I would not mind tiered offerings. But they advertise unlimited. Unlimited is what they are stuck providing.

I have never received an over usage warning letter myself. But can see how it could happen legitimately without pirating.
 
GORANKAR said:
True, but digital content delivery is where games, apps, tv, and movies are headed. Many of them utilizing p2p types of delivery systems.
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I disagree...those types of apps don't utilize kajillions of concurrent connections like P2P traffic. Nothing drops a router faster than P2P traffic. They're written for "all you can eat" when it comes to bandwidth.
 
AMD_Gamer said:
pirates? if you pay a monthly price to your ISP then you pay for EVERYTHING you download it's like an all you can eat buffet you can argue about it all you want but it is the future and cannot be stopped , and that is also far from the issue here, the problem here is that the ISP's need to update there systems to meet the increasing demand for bandwidth.
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You also sign their contract which clearly states that they can disconnect and cancel you at anytime, for any reason.
 
utshost said:
no why? because i don't take shit from a company i pay 100$ a month for internet/cable?
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Because you have no idea what you're talking about. ALL isp AUPs include clauses to the effect that your service can be terminated if your use of the service is detrimental to others. Downloading 500GB/mo on a shared last mile system quite often has a detrimental impact on others sharing your node. You're not going to be able to sue them for enforcing bandwidth limitations. Additionally,
i got one, i just called and told them to STFU i paid for service and i intend to use it, when i signed it there was nothing about limits so leave me the fwock alone or i will report you to the BBB and let them work it out. unless of course you want to be sued for breach of contract? hmm maybe? she said thankyou and she will fix the problem. LMFAO
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is one of the more juvenile things I've read in this subforum. As soon as you curse at a CSR or threaten legal action they'll end the call and possibly cancel your service.
 
da sponge said:
is one of the more juvenile things I've read in this subforum. As soon as you curse at a CSR or threaten legal action they'll end the call and possibly cancel your service.
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Yep.

And then you'll be forced to find alternatives, which, in this federal-monopoly country, are few and far between unless you're in a major city.
 
cox used to send me these on a monthly basis.. i always just ignored them and continued on my merry way. After a year or so they magically stopped, guess they are hurting for money to bad to kick me off their service... i dunno.


But, you can in fact legitimately pull 5-800gb of downloading in a month.. i have done it. U got 3 or 4 people streaming crap all day, downloading random updates and software from connect and ms trails. Downloading 500mb movies from your friends... porno that you paid for... there's alot of different ways to do it. Heck, some of the newsgroups are 5-6gb download just to refresh the headers... now what your intent would be refreshing alt.binaries.xx headers is somewhat questionable... but downloading the headers is legitimate.

512k stream that is constantly on for a month is 165gb(assuming my windows calculator is working, and i can count 0's)... if you have 3 or 4 people doing that bam, you can hit 400gb just from streaming video's(italian tv for me and my brother)
 
AMD_Gamer said:
pirates? if you pay a monthly price to your ISP then you pay for EVERYTHING you download it's like an all you can eat buffet you can argue about it all you want but it is the future and cannot be stopped , and that is also far from the issue here, the problem here is that the ISP's need to update there systems to meet the increasing demand for bandwidth.
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um, not it isnt..lol

what your paying for is the service to get to the internet, your not paying for shit when you pay your ISP, no other company see's your money....


it isnt the future, you will never pay your ISP X amount and get free access to anything you want.

And so what if i use P2P - i paid for the service and most ISP now have level services, you dont use alot of bandwidth, get the low end server, but for people paying for the top tier service, they should be getting the top teir service they paid for.

the lower people arent paying for the top users, the ISP are over selling bandwidht in hopes people dont actually USE it like they paid for it.
 
da sponge said:
Because you have no idea what you're talking about. ALL isp AUPs include clauses to the effect that your service can be terminated if your use of the service is detrimental to others. Downloading 500GB/mo on a shared last mile system quite often has a detrimental impact on others sharing your node. You're not going to be able to sue them for enforcing bandwidth limitations. Additionally,

is one of the more juvenile things I've read in this subforum. As soon as you curse at a CSR or threaten legal action they'll end the call and possibly cancel your service.
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being that i started my service under time warner, 10 years ago there was nothing about that in the TOS that i signed. Yes i'm sure there is some Claus in there about merging with other company's that i automatically have to abide by there TOS or AUP, i never saw it, it was never sent to me. I was simply telling them don't threaten me with some smoke to try and scare me. i know my rights and i know what i can do online legally. And if they want to play traffic cop i would be more than willing to switch to a different provider. that actually follows laws, not stretching them so they don't have to invest in there own network because they over sold the capabilities of there lines.

now if you want to call me juvenile, thats fine with me. i'm a dick, i make no excuse's for it nor do i care. i just don't like when companies try to scare you into doing something they want, not something illegal. If they want to cancel my service go right ahead, i would rather be on verizon fois anyways... lol


anyways if i want to download that much, who are they to tell me no, i pay i intend to use it. they don't say anything about doing illegal activity, they just say our network, our network, our network. sorry comcast you will have to update your lines and service..
 
utshost said:
anyways if i want to download that much, who are they to tell me no, i pay i intend to use it. they don't say anything about doing illegal activity, they just say our network, our network, our network. sorry comcast you will have to update your lines and service..
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They are the company providing you the service...they have every right to define that service, what's acceptable to them..when the line is crossed..and to pull the plug on you. It's not a God given right, or something written into the US constitution or Bill of Rights..that you're given the right to suck up bandwidth full bore 24x7x365.

When you sign up with an ISP...you are entitled to an "up to" bandwidth..not guaranteed..and to use that bandwidth "within reason". That "within reason" is defined by the ISP..not you. They also have the right to change this whenever they want.

ISPs will "Oversubscribe"...they have done this since the early dial up days.

When an ISP defines this oversubscription rate...they figure out how many clients they have, what available bandwidth they have, what their typical target client is..and an expected..normal..average bandwidth usage and use times...they expect from their pool of clients.

It has not changed. Their business model is based on this, their monthly fees are based on this. The big common ISPs have a higher oversubscription rate..thus keeping costs down. The small, higher performance, better quality ISPs have lower oversubscription rates....thus the reason they are quite a bit more expensive. But you know what? It's worth it.

Don't like your current ISP....simple...get another one that fits your needs better.
 
ops, last line should read

anyways if i want to download that much, who are they to tell me no with out any documentation in the contact that they can do that. i pay i intend to use it. they don't say anything about doing illegal activity, they just say our network, our network, our network. sorry comcast you will have to update your lines and service..
 
utshost said:
ops, last line should read

anyways if i want to download that much, who are they to tell me no with out any documentation in the contact that they can do that. i pay i intend to use it. they don't say anything about doing illegal activity, they just say our network, our network, our network. sorry comcast you will have to update your lines and service..
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Illegal content is only tangentially related to the OP. People receive usage notifications because they're using too much bandwidth - not necessarily because they're doing illegal things with their service. The OP was specifically rescinding his claim that the only way to breech the caps was to engage in 'illegal' downloads.

They're your service provider - and they typically provide plenty of documentation in the AUP. There's a difference between knowing your rights/not taking any shit and using willful ignorance to claim imaginary rights.
 
da sponge said:
using willful ignorance to claim imaginary rights.
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Very well stated! :cool:
The ever imaginary "I pay for it I intend to use it all".

A handful of kids in one neighborhood/node..and be darned to the rest of the innocent users who just want to also use the net..but experience glacially slow dial up speeds. So the kids demand the ISP upgrades their bandwidth 100x. Great...now the rest of the people get monthly rates jacked 3x ...even though they weren't abusing the bandwidth. Yeah..good concept.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
A handful of kids in one neighborhood/node..and be darned to the rest of the innocent users who just want to also use the net..but experience glacially slow dial up speeds. So the kids demand the ISP upgrades their bandwidth 100x. Great...now the rest of the people get monthly rates jacked 3x ...even though they weren't abusing the bandwidth. Yeah..good concept.
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This wouldn't be a problem if people paid for the service they received. Right now, at least in my area, minimal users are paying for more than they receive, while excessive users may be downloading more than they're paying for.

If you use more, you pay more. If you use less, you pay less.
 
urbanriot said:
If you use more, you pay more. If you use less, you pay less.
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I agree with that concept that some ISPs are tossing around. Seriously.

I mean..look at every other consumable in the world....
If you drive a lot..you have to fill up your cars gas tank a lot...thus you pay for what you use.
If you eat a lot..you purchase more groceries at the store
If you drink a lot at the bar..it empties your wallet more
If you like the heat in your house set to a nursing home scadling 85 degrees....your oil or electricity bill goes up
If you like to run a few thousand XMas lights around your house...it runs your electricity bill up..
If you make a lot of phone calls...your monthly phone bill goes up...
Cable TV...extra channels, extra options....higher monthly package


etc etc etc....

Can someone make such a quick list in a matter of a minute...of services that we pay a flat fee for no matter how much we use? I doubt it.
 
all you can eat buffet
happy hour
Solar power, one time fee- dont pay after that for power :)
Tv channel - get packaged deals
phone calls - use the free hour times they often have


the others, hard to do :)

the problem with a pay as you use system, on the internet is with all the spam emails and advertising, that alone would be a nice chunk of your cost, do you really want to pay to download those spam emails, or visit your favorite forums which show ad's ?

When you buy gas for your car, you dont have to listen to some advert about X company and their gas prices or the next day wake up with 1000 flyers on your windshield for gas crap do you
 
thats all fine and dandy, but is a internet connection a consumable? if you use it does it have to be replaced? no. its always there.... .

do you get charge more for over the air TV?
do you pay more for tabs if you drive more?
do you pay more if you get 10k emails on yahoo?
do you pay more if you use a ham radio all the time?
do you pay more if you read a book you bought once, but read many times?

seems odd that other company's in differnt sectors don't do the same thing. we will just say microwave transmission.. so say you have a 3GHz system and the state wants to transmit its back up across your system, they pay a one time flat fee and transmit as much as they want over it.. hell in Minnesota the state transmits petabytes of data every month for a flat fee. why should isp be any differnt? roughly the same idea.
 
utshost said:
thats all fine and dandy, but is a internet connection a consumable? if you use it does it have to be replaced? no. its always there.... .
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Yes it is a consumable..that does need to be fed/replaced. Similar to electricity. Actually the model is quite similar to an electric company. Very similar. The ISP purchases huge quantities of backbone pipe.

Very similar grid pattern the way regions are fed. And...with heavy use times...a parallel would be "brown out".
 
In the end, it doesn't really matter if it *should* be tiered model or not... fact is, at this point, right now, it isn't. They say unlimited, it should be unlimited. If they want to change it, that's fine; I'd have no problem with that. But then they need to spell things out exactly how they are.
 
Gambit said:
In the end, it doesn't really matter if it *should* be tiered model or not... fact is, at this point, right now, it isn't. They say unlimited, it should be unlimited. If they want to change it, that's fine; I'd have no problem with that. But then they need to spell things out exactly how they are.
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Oh but they DO spell out things....to say "unlimited" is more of that imaginary rights we were talking about above.

Here's a link for those who wish to read the TOS...
http://www.comcast.net/terms/use/

And for those who are claiming ignorance and never want to read those TOS...to keep maintaining the imaginary "I pay for it ALLLL...so I'll use it ALLLL"....here is a quote from the above link...which, to me at least, does indeed spell things out. There's also quite a bit more info in that link which spells things out more clearly.

Quote...again..taken from the above link...

"Are there restrictions on bandwidth consumption that apply to the Service?

The Service is for personal and non-commercial residential use only. Therefore, Comcast reserves the right to suspend or terminate Service accounts where bandwidth consumption is not characteristic of a typical residential user of the Service as determined by the company in its sole discretion. Common activities that may cause excessive bandwidth consumption in violation of this Policy include, but are not limited to, numerous or continuous bulk transfers of files and other high capacity traffic using (i) file transfer protocol ("FTP"), (ii) peer-to-peer applications, and (iii) newsgroups, whether provided by Comcast or a third party. You must also ensure that your use of the Service does not restrict, inhibit, interfere with, or degrade any other person's use of the Service, nor represent (as determined by Comcast in its sole discretion) an overly large burden on the network. In addition, you must ensure that your use of the Service does not limit or interfere with Comcast's ability to deliver and monitor the Service or any part of its network.

If you use the Service in violation of the restrictions referenced above, that is a violation of this Policy. In these cases, Comcast may, in its sole discretion, suspend or terminate your Service account or request that you subscribe to a version of the Service (such as a commercial grade Internet service, if appropriate) if you wish to continue to use the Service at higher bandwidth consumption levels. Comcast may also provide versions of the Service with different speed and bandwidth consumption limitations, among other characteristics, subject to applicable Service plans."
 
starting to sound like some of these people work for the cable company lol.


but i do love the wording of there TOS. its worded in a way that they can do anything they want.... "consumption is not characteristic of a typical residential user of the service as determined by the company in its sole discretion.. "

by that they can say ok 100GB is not a typical residential user.

the next week 50GB is not typical of a residential user (because said use is 80 years old and only checks emails, and download photos her/his kids send)

i don't understand why you don't have a problem with this.. it pritty much says they will do what ever they want, when ever they want to make them more money. your service can change day to day and there is nothing you can do about it, but find a difffent isp and prolly pay a fee to get out of your contract... this is not what the internet was intended for, nor the use of it....
 
utshost said:
starting to sound like some of these people work for the cable company lol.

i don't understand why you don't have a problem with this.. it pritty much says they will do what ever they want, when ever they want to make them more money. your service can change day to day and there is nothing you can do about it, but find a difffent isp and prolly pay a fee to get out of your contract... this is not what the internet was intended for, nor the use of it....
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I don't...but back in the dial up days and the very early days of DSL I did have a reseller agreement with some...and currently on my job I do work closely with some smaller ISPs.

My big problem? That the heavy bandwidth users (the P2P kids) (which are a VERY small percentage of an ISPs client base..so what makes these kids think the ISPs owe them 110% attention?) try to demand the ISPs simply upgrade the neighborhood T3/DS3's to OC48 or OC192...just to satisfy them? At the vast expense of the majority of the ISP clients.

And quite honestly..yes..business is business. If you don't like your current ISP...hey..it's a free country...you have the right to select another ISP. And that right flips right around to the ISP...they aren't bound by law to service you..they can terminate you...the headaches you cause them aren't worth the couple of bucks a month they scrape off of you. Yeah yeah in some areas this may be tough..but hey...it's still a choice.
 
I don't defend ISPs for all their actions. Bandwidth caps are unfortunate, but not surprising given the over subscription model residential ISPs operate under. I do take issue with the seemingly arbitrary nature of enforcement and not knowing what triggers a notification. I don't defend discriminatory traffic management - a la comcast and tcp resets. I also think its terrible that ISPs haven't upgraded their last mile infrastructure even through they've been given billions in subsidies to roll out fiber to the home (http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/2007/pulpit_20070810_002683.html).
 
well that makes sense. but for me, i pay extra for higher speeds because i need that for my job, i do have to work at home alot. such is the nature of IT. When stuff happens and i need to send patch's, updates, hell take over for exchange when it goes down so mail is stored and delivered from my computer it piss's me off when my download gets slowed way down because of comcast... not all p2p traffic is bad, how do they think linux, and other programs are dis't? i figure if i pay more, i get more but that is not the case. o well.
*shakes fist at verizon, hurry up and get fois to my hood... your only 3 blocks away!! lol
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
My big problem? That the heavy bandwidth users (the P2P kids) (which are a VERY small percentage of an ISPs client base..so what makes these kids think the ISPs owe them 110% attention?) try to demand the ISPs simply upgrade the neighborhood T3/DS3's to OC48 or OC192...just to satisfy them? At the vast expense of the majority of the ISP clients.
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Back in the day I remember ISPs advertising unlimited usage. Now that people are actually using their internet they want to take it away? It may be the "P2P kids" today but tomorrow as video/movie streaming catches on average joes usage will sky rocket as well.

YeOldeStonecat said:
And quite honestly..yes..business is business. If you don't like your current ISP...hey..it's a free country...you have the right to select another ISP. And that right flips right around to the ISP...they aren't bound by law to service you..they can terminate you...the headaches you cause them aren't worth the couple of bucks a month they scrape off of you. Yeah yeah in some areas this may be tough..but hey...it's still a choice.
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It's a free country but somehow the providers have gotten the lock down on communities as far as letting competition in. If I had other choices for ISP I would be all over them, as soon as FIOS gets to my area believe me I will be all over it.

The internet is growing and doesn't show any signs of slowing down. I am worried that instead of upgrading their infrastructures these ISPs are trying to discourage usage and fight competition that would bring in more bandwidth.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
Then we all get monthly service rate increases...to satisfy the wants/overuse of a very small percentage of users.

P2P traffic amounts to over 50% of internet bandwidth being consumed..and is on the rise.
Percentage of ISP customers that are P2P users...very small.

So very small percentage of users...consume a greater portion of the bandwidth..but all us other users gotta pony up the cash for these kids? Eh eh...not me.

It's not so much the bandwidth itself..is the routers along the nodes of cable ISPs that get hit the hardest. Think about common P2P complaints with home grade routers you see in the forums...now apply that on a grand scale....on an ISP scale..think of what a few hundred P2P users can do to ISP routers.
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If you sell bandwith to customers and your network architehcture/backbone can't handle the traffic you have done a rotten job...traffic is traffic and P2P is not going to make switches/DSLAM's come crashing down...

And yes, I work for an ISP so it's not a guess.
 
Bomber18 said:
tomorrow as video/movie streaming catches on average joes usage will sky rocket as well.
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Video/streaming doesn't cause a grain of sand in a buckets worth of network load like P2P does. P2P apps are programmed to suck up all they can get....give an inch..take a mile. And it's not so much the pure bandwidth..but the insane loads of the concurrent connections they place on the routers.

Comparison...at a house..little johnny starts downloading his muzak and games via torrents...mom and dad and big sister can no longer surf because the little Linksys router starts locking up. It's not the limits of their 3 meg DSL connection..it's the router that can't handle the loads. Multiply that analogy by a few hundred times to an ISPs scale.
 
Atech said:
If you sell bandwith to customers and your network architehcture/backbone can't handle the traffic you have done a rotten job..

And yes, I work for an ISP so it's not a guess.
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I'll guess you don't work with a shirt and tie on...nor near the business department. For simplicity..in the older days of cable ISPs..the neighborhood nodes were T-3s to a router. Say a little 3 meg connection for each home. T-3...45 megs....do a little division. If each house is going full bore at 3 megs...doesn't take many users to squash it eh? Divide the cost of a T-3 by how many users it really divides into at 3 megs..you want to pay that per month? ;) Ouch..that's gonna sting my wallet (no mommie and daddies..so I care about possible cost increases). No...oversubscribing is a necessity when it comes to ISPs.
 
Atech said:
If you sell bandwith to customers and your network architehcture/backbone can't handle the traffic you have done a rotten job...traffic is traffic and P2P is not going to make switches/DSLAM's come crashing down...

And yes, I work for an ISP so it's not a guess.
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:confused:

That's like telling someone their web site will handle a 1000 person load fine, when in actuality their programming creates 12 MySQL connections with each page load, thus taking the server to it's knees after a whopping 83 "connections."

Considering you have DSLAMs I'm going to assume you don't work for a very high bandwidth provider (unless you work for Verizon, in which case you're not on the Net-dev team), so, I'll put forward that I've seen Foundry/Procurves/etc completely saturated due to P2P apps at a major webhost, with 100mb on each line. Obviously, due to the ISP sales architecture, not even 1/10th of the users will actually utilize this line speed - but the ones that do tend to be p2p'ers, or Tor exits, which is evident in the packet logs/snort, and they're ignored until we're made aware of issues on said switch. This is typically A; p2p-server being placed onto a high utilization switch and "overfilling the cup", or B; p2p-server being placed on a low-ut switch and being a mongloid that saturates it and causes us to have to keep a close eye on it prior to adding new clients.

Now, add in the hundreds of abuse/DMCA/poltical/legal complaints that said server will probably bring in - is it really worth keeping around? No. With discretionary notices we nip it in the bud at the start and save ourselves a headache.

My point: massive swarm-peering is a little bit more taxing than a UDP video stream. Traffic is traffic, but you're forgetting that multiple connections are involved in a p2p instance.
 
YeOldeStonecat said:
Oh but they DO spell out things....to say "unlimited" is more of that imaginary rights we were talking about above.
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No, regardless of what their TOS says, they've advertised that it's unlimited... you think it's right that they say unlimited, then say "at our discretion"? Past that, to say "where bandwidth consumption is not characteristic of a typical residential user of the Service as determined by the company in its sole discretion." Well, that can be anything. That's not spelled out, at all. What I mean by "spelled out" is "bandwidth consumption is limited to 500GB per month per account" not "bandwidth consumption is limited to our discretion"
 
Gambit said:
No, regardless of what their TOS says, they've advertised that it's unlimited. Past that, to say "where bandwidth consumption is not characteristic of a typical residential user of the Service as determined by the company in its sole discretion." Well, that can be anything. That's not spelled out, at all. What I mean by "spelled out" is "bandwidth consumption is limited to 500GB per month per account" not "bandwidth consumption is limited to our discretion"
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That's intended for a responsible audience. Those who don't abuse things. The concept is simple..."stay off their radar".

Here's an analogy...when you drive your car....stay within the flow of the majority of responsible traffic. Occasional squirts of speed usually wont' get you into trouble. Even a rare run at high speed and you can still be OK. But...if you try to drive 120 miles per hour every single day..chances are you'll get popped with a nice expensive ticket. Keep doing that over and over..and you will probably lose your license.

The ISP can't be blamed for not spending countless hours having a team of people create a TOS unique to each client. Naturally they'll create a TOS that remains flexible...they don't have the time to drill down specifics and create a unique one for each person....and re-write the whole thing each time some new P2P technology comes out. By nature it's rather vague...again, what really counts is that you stay off their radar. Occasional periods of heavier traffic generally will not get you on their radar. But constantly pushing things..and the hammer will come down on you. If you're given an inch...act responsible..don't take a mile.
 
Yes, but they're not telling users "here's an inch, we're not going to be jerks so it's not a hard and fast inch, but be responsible" but instead it's worded "you can take an undetermined amount... too much and we may cancel your account"

The whole "short bursts of speed" thing goes *RIGHT* out the window. Had you said "short bursts of speed and you may not get into an accident" *might* have flown. I don't know about you, but in parts around here, you go a smidge over and you *will* get a ticket. Cops don't look at you and go "well, he's doing 45 in a 30... but he doesn't do it often" ... no, they just pull you over and issue a ticket... which they should. The limit is clearly marked and the driver was noticably over it.

I'm not asking for a TOS unique to each person, just none of this really vague "at our sole discretion" with no other limits posted. As previously stated, this could be 100GB one month and 500GB the next. It's not my fault they *ADVERTISE* as unlimited, and say something completely different. Stay off their radar? I would if I knew what it took to *GET ON IT*. Obviously downloading too much gets you on... but how much? 100GB? 500GB? 250GB in one day, but not over a month? Who knows.
 
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